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 Post subject: I don't get it...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:10 pm 
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Ok, I generally resent internet forums and the almost comical lack of information and perspective people lack when posting. That said, rather than posting in support of people I almost feel like I should only post in defense of Suboxone, so I hope this is the right category to do so.

Look, if you have had a bad experience with Sub that sucks. It really does. And yes all of us here know exactly what being dope sick is like and how we deal with PAWS or short-term withdrawal. Unfortunately if you used Suboxone as a crutch or a lengthy solution, that was YOUR choice. Your doctor never put the tablet under your tounge for you. We live in an age where information (LIKE THIS FRIGGIN SITE YOU ARE POSTING ON) is readily available 24/7 and no matter how naieve you are, you owed it to yourself to research treatment options - including "some drug called Suboxone" your MD prescribed. That may sound calloused or whatever, but it's the truth. But even assuming you just started taking a drug your doctor said COULD work for you, when you first start you should do all the research you need until YOU feel YOU can make an informed decision - and if you then feel the way you do now, tell your doc "thanks, but no thanks."

I've personally been on Sub for over a year, and from the start I knew the pros and cons. My story is almost identical to every other opiate addict, and my life until 2 years ago was all about using heroin and nothing else. I originally was given Sub in a inpatient rehab center for 1 week (3rd time in rehab then), and short term it was great and I stayed clean a whole 32 days until they let me out. Knowing that and knowing I didn't have the skills to truly deal with why I use (and I really hate NA/AA and have my own "program" I work, but that's an entirely different discussion), I asked my doctor about longer-term usage and told him that for now I am comfortable delaying the inevitable - withdrawal. Suboxone has granted me that precious time to learn ACTUAL LIFE SKILLS that I never ever had before, and when I'm comfortable I will quit entirely. I'm currently taking ~ 4mg a day, with every other day taking ~ 2-3mg. It's a very very slow taper, and the withdrawal is going to suck regardless, but at least I'm prepared. I've gone off the rails here, but essentially I just wanted to say that those of you who want to blame a drug or a doctor or whatever really need to look in the mirror. You were a willing accomplice in the process of Sub, and you were probably ill-equipped to deal with the uncomfortable month or two after finishing your Sub treatment.

Go ahead and flame away, but seriously at least take 2 minutes before you post to consider your reply and your reasons, otherwise you may just end up proving my point further. ..

Two years or so clean, no more needles, never got AIDS, Hep C test was negative at least for now. If a fuck up like me can turn it around, anyone can, and I owe a lot to this drug. Don't bother replying just to ask me questions, but respond with anything you can add.. thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Spoken like a beautiful poet! Thanks for your post!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am 
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Wow.. good post!

Like I always say:

NOBODY SHOVED THE PILLS DOWN YOUR THROAT

in the case of most agonists, of course Suboxone would be:

NOBODY MELTED THE PILLS UNDER YOUR TONGUE

Its funny the choices that we make. When you feel a little withdrawal, you just panic. Honestly, is withdrawal that bad? (not c/t, but just a slight reduction in dose). When you're dependant on opiates, its living hell.. Every second of how you feel occupies the deep recesses of your mind and you constantly measure your withdrawal with 'normal' and 'oh god this is so bad'.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:18 am 
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Hey scape,

I agree with a lot of what you say. People do have a responsibility to educate themselves about what they put into their body, though people in general usually don't, and people in crisis hardly ever do.

If you had a really nasty infected cut on your leg that made it so you almost couldn't walk, then went to a doctor who gave you a script for pills you had never heard of, telling you that it was an antibiotic that would "fix you up"... are you likely to go home and study the PDR then do a meta-analysis on the web, comparing that drug's efficacy as an antibiotic for infected leg wounds with other antibiotics and researching all possible side-effects of the drug before starting to take it? The majority of people would simply trust that their doctor has comprehensive knowledge of the drugs she prescribes and wouldn't prescribe them something that wasn't in their best interests. If, a week after starting the drug, your hair all fell out... would you be angry at your doctor for not making this side-effect clear to you upfront? Or would you shrug it off saying "it's my own fault for not thoroughly researching the drug before taking it"?

When an addict finally gets to the point that they are willing to ask for help with their addiction, they are almost always in crisis mode. If their doctor gives them a medication and tells them that it will "fix you up", they tend to believe them. Later, when they encounter unpleasant side-effects, difficulty withdrawing from the new drug, etc... it seems understandable that they might feel a tad miffed... no?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:17 am 
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Yeah I'm not so sure about that Euph, although your analogies are always so appreciated :D I am a little lost though as to why you seem to expect opiate addicts to take responsibility for their decisions and way of life when you don't expect normies to accept responsibility for theirs...... Wait let me see if I follow, so when someone is in crisis they bear no responsibility for what they do? That sounds totally at odds with many of your previous arguments I've heard. I'm afraid I just may need more analogies to follow your rationale but I've no doubt you'll help me with that.
Thanks ahead of time for your enlightening response :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Look, I was in crisis mode when I went to the doctor to get into a Suboxone program, BUT I already had done a great deal of research on the drug so I was aware of what I was getting involved in. Any person with half a brain would realize that it is their responsibility to themselves to know what they are putting into their body.
Anyone on Suboxone owes it to themselves to do their homework. The really sad thing is that some doctors do not know enough about alot of drugs before they prescribe them, but common sense would tell you that. With any physical ailment, if a doctor was going to put you on a medication, you would surely investigate it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:19 pm 
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In reply to Euphemism, as a person who has treated a few hundred addicts in crisis mode, I can tell you that no matter how carefully I explain how Suboxone works, what is does and doesn't do, the right way to take it, etc, the addict in crisis mode hears what he wants to hear. I blame it on withdrawal and also on the nature of addiction; part of being an addict is lacking insight during 'crisis modes' (myself included). Later the addict blames the doctor, instead of taking responsibility for his own mistakes-- in general I think any recovering addict should be careful when he blames someone else, and instead work to take responsibility-- even for things that are gray areas.

More importantly, those addicts that you use as hypothetical examples-- you write as if they have a choice! Just what choice do they have, as they sit in that hypothetical doctor's office? Many people, after the fact, say 'I wish I had been told the truth about Suboxone, so I would have gotten clean instead'. That is a good story, but if you are honest you know it is a joke. I ALWAYS give the options, and suggest people, especially if they are halfway through withdrawal, continue all the way through and go into residential treatment. To date, 320 people have chosen Suboxone when given that choice... and NONE have chosen residential treatment. My point is that the hypothetical addict in your 'bad doctor's' office has NO choice. He/she can take Suboxone with the information that is provided, or go back home and spend a couple hundred bucks per day on oxycodone, maybe dying because of the extra money in his pocket.

So many people at those OTHER forums-- 'I would have gotten clean, had I known!!' I say to them, you are essentially still in the same place.... being on Suboxone has not taken away your chance to go into residential treatment-- so do it now, big talker!! (that's what I say when I've had enough of that kind of garbage, anyway)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:15 am 
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sorry for my last post that was kind of crappy of me I've taken a theoretical chill pill and that shouldn't have been directed at anyone, you're entitled to your own opinion Euphemism.
I still stand by the majority of the other more well written responses so far

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:07 pm 
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I know myself when I was using. I loved to know about pills. I had books, I looked them up online, I knew the numbers. I liked being knowlegdable pills. If there was something out there someone was talking about I wanted to know about it. So suboxone was the same thing. Back then even though it did something different it was lumped into the same catagory. If I could get it from the same guy I bought my oxys from I needed to know about it. Therefore I thought I was pretty well informed going into my treatment about what was going to happen to me. I don't feel informed enough to really get invovled in most of the disscusions on here, but I wanted to add how I was in my addiction for what ever its worth.


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 Post subject: Re: I don't get it...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Just wanted to say Thanks for this post! Until you actually step up and take responsibility for your situation, you'll never get out of the permanent cycle of feeling sorry for yourself and take charge! Suboxone isn't a magic bullet, its a chance like you said to see the world clearly, without the rose colored glasses that being high allows you, but also without the crushing pain and agony of withdrawal, that causes you to run back to the very substance "your allowing" to ruin your life! Its a tool not a crutch if used for the right reasons and the decision is yours alone. I hope your doing well, and just wanted to say "thanks" again for pointing out the obvious to those who would choose to hide from the truth of their own reality and try to shift the blame on anyone and everyone but themselves!


Last edited by aisllling on Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I don't get it...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I don't get it...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:04 am 
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Wow scape, thanks for sharing the post. I can relate to it some way.


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