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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Hey guys I wanted to start this thread to see if anyone else has or had these problems while on Suboxone as well to let you know that there is hope at the end of the tunnel. I was on Suboxone for 5 years and know for a fact that it made me numb to life hence emotionless. I started a thread a while back and a lot of people also were having similar problems but could not find it so I am starting a new one. For the longest time on Suboxone I had no emotions things that would make me cry, mad sad no longer did that and it is very hard to go about life felling that way. I remember having the worst fight I ever had with my GF she was in tears crying screaming and I did not even shed a single tear or even feel bad I made her feel this way but during active addiction I would of done anything to make things right. Well thanks to Suboxone I lost 3 months with my GF because of that fight and it wasn’t just me that notice these things anyone close to me did as well even my physiologists of 5 years said something to me numerous times about it. Well I do want to let you know that there is hope at the end of the tunnel if you are also experiencing this side effect. I have been off Suboxone now for 2 and half weeks about 4 days into my detox I started to fell emotions that I have not felt in years even a sad movie made me cry and now I can relate to people during hard times my gf lost someone close to her and I was able to comfort her and not fell numb doing so I didn’t even know this person I felt her pain her sadness. So you will one day get your fillings back if you are able to stop suboxone.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Not at all, I cry, laugh, get upset, I experience the same range of emotions I experienced before I started sub. I am actually "feeling" my emotions alot more since I started sub. I have been on them for 2 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:33 am 
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Hey, Bboy. Man, it's so great to hear you sound like this!! You really do sound like a completely different person.

Yes, I became very emotionless and robotic on Sub. The people around me assumed it was a result of my brain injury and I guess I kinda bought into that too. We tried various antidepressants, because being depressed can make a person cut themselves off and seem disconnected. Those meds just did not work. It was frustrating. I thought it was brain damage and that was really depressing. I feel a gigantic difference since getting my dose of Sub way down. I'm closing in on .5 mg now. The difference is amazing, actually. A lot of mornings, I wake up and, even if I have some minor symptoms, I get that excited feeling in my stomach that I used to get years ago. You know when the day is new and it's a fresh morning and that's enough to make you feel pumped? I love that feeling.

Also, the sex drive thing. Maybe it's not as likely to happen to women, but I lost mine completely. It's coming back, thank God.

Bboy, everyone doesn't get the same side effects, but I know that for me, and it sounds like this is true for you too, this has been an obvious enough experience that we know it was somehow a result of Sub, perhaps of our doses being on the high end. I think we have to let go of any guilt over how we acted towards other people. I feel very bad about how cold I have been during times when people I loved were hurting and I just could not connect with their emotions in a normal way. It turns my stomach to think back on some of those times. However, it's such a complicated and confusing experience. You got to the other side of it and you figured out how to make it better. No one can expect anything more of you. I'm sure your family is thrilled to have the 'old' you back.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:03 am 
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I'm almost hesitant to comment after the direction this thread took last time. But I will just say that for ME only, the combination of Sub and my antidepressant make me too level. I don't have low lows, but I don't have any high highs either. I do experience the full range of emotions, but just not as fully. The meds do affect my sex drive negatively, as well as my ability to reach orgasm. So that can be added to my reasons for wanting to get off (the sub I mean :oops: )


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:28 am 
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I, too, am hesitant to respond due to the last thread, but here goes nothin'... Like stp747, I have my full range of emotions. I get the really low lows still and the really great highs, too. I cry as well as sob, I chuckle as well as laugh hysterically. I have no complaints in the emotions department. Nothing changed with regard to my emotions when I started sub. I've been on them for about 2.5 years and take 16+ mg per day.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Bboy, here is your old thread about this topic (emotionless):

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3 ... sc&start=0


I am glad to hear that you are feeling better since you switched to methadone. I've always found this topic interesting, especially since people have such varied experiences when it comes to Suboxone and mood or emotion. As I've said before in a few different places on the forum, I also went through a period of time when I first stopped Suboxone where I felt like my emotions were more intense than usual, things seemed brighter, music sounded really good and I was kinda touchy at times. Eventually things leveled out again for me and I felt pretty normal. This past winter I went through a bout of depression and was pretty emotionless for a while but I went back on antidepressants and I'm feeling better again.

When I first started Suboxone I was in a study that was being done at the local VA hospital. My Sub doctor was the head of the VA addiction treatment services and at one point he commented to me that he had many long-time methadone patients (like vets from the Vietnam era) who had also been chronically depressed and when thy switched to Suboxone their depression lifted "like magic" and they were able to experience a range of emotions again. He was really excited about the antidepressant potential of buperenorphine and said that he suspected it had something to do with bupe's action at the K opioid receptor, which is not really understood.

I find it so intriguing that some long-term methadone patients would have their flat affect/depression/emotional disconnect helped by Suboxone, while other Sub patients find that Sub causes that same problem and that it is helped by methadone. Our brains are so strange! I wonder if this effect is similar in some way to the way that one antidepressant will work like a miracle for person A while it just causes person B to feel flat and emotionless. Antidepressants also tend to stop working with time as our brains adjust to them - I know this has been the case with me and I've had to take "vacations" from Wellbutrin because it stops working.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Wow it is so good to know that I am not the only one who had this side effect from Suboxone. I thought for the longest time it was me I either had some type of depression and anxiety disorder that made me fell disconnected from the world and people all together. But to hear some of your guys comments just made me realize that I am not the only one this has happen too. I think what is hard to deal with is that addiction makes us to distance and emotionless at times in the first place but once you get clean you want to fell these emotions again but for those of us that do get this side effect from suboxone is almost depressing in that itself. And I hear you DOAQ that it is so confusing how one person on methadone can be so disconnected than switch to sub and be lifted back up and then the next guys gets disconnected from being on suboxone. The human brain is so hard to understand.

Yea laddtripper it was the same thing for me I started to fell emotions just from lowring my dose. Actually the 2nd day of tapering was when I started to notice these changes, it was literally that quick which in my eyes proved that is was suboxone making me fell this way at least for myself. And now that I am completely sub free all together I know that it was suboxone doing this. And my sex drive is def noticeably better as well I won’t get into details but my Gf is def happy I am off suboxone if you get my drift;) But let’s keep this PG 13 or she wil kick my ass. Please guys continue to post don’t be afraid to state your views and concerns.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:44 pm 
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subutex has seemed to exacerbate my depression. i do not unfortunately get the mood lift from it. i have suffered from chronic depression and anxiety and hoped this would dissipate by becoming sober. i feel a little lifeless and numb. perhaps this well level out. i had a 14 year addiction. i realize that probably will not be mitigated over night, but i still find suboxone/subutex to be invaluable.

unfortunately my depression has been somewhat treatment resistant and i have tried many different medications. other medications have increased my suicidal ideations or had very rare side effects. SRNIs have made me completely manic and landed me in the psych hospital. Atypical anti-psychs and typical anti-psychs i have suffered such bad and rare side effects from as well. i've tried ssri's, srni's, tricyclic, tetracyclic, and even some off label stuff.

however, i plan on focusing on therapy and figure that as i gain more stability in my life that the depression will become manageable.

while the sub may make me feel listless, i wouldn't trade it. it has saved my life.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:47 am 
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hellow powerballad. i can identify what your going through. ya i'm on another new med today.
i never find the rite one that really works for me". suboxone makes me feel sorta comatose.
i'm out of luck with psyic meds. but one med i was on for 3 months called abilify worked very well. it made me feel comfortable and in control, for all most three months!! but i guess i screwed up my daily med intake,by missing a few days,
and then it hit me like a ton of bricks". i had akashsisa that lasted about 3 weeks and disthimia that went on for about
4 months. that really sucked big time". but i'm feeling some what better now. with these extra problems i have, i can only wonder what it would be like coming off suboxone." but i guess God dosen't want me to worry about that rite now.
but suboxone is helping me stay away from the pain meds that got me on it in the first place. sub is ok but yes i would too like it better with out the comatose and lifeless feeling. but it does lift my depression a little. powerballad i hope you can find the med that will work for you soon! abilify worked very well for me over 2 1/2 months. but there is other people and friends that i no, and it's working very well for theme. p.s. keep working at it! god bless.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Man first and for most I fell for you both you guys I mean having to deal with drug addiction is a huge task alone but to add serious depression and anxiety on it must make things even harder. At this point even if suboxone may cause some issues that make things worst whatever you do stay on it. The last thing you need is the stress of drug addiction with the depression and that would just make things that much harder. I would say get your mental health in order than go from there and once you do get your depression under control decide what route is next. I could tell you that suboxone made me lifeless numb emotionless and even lower doses made that go away. And what really sucks if you do get these side affect from suboxone just makes dealing with your depression that much harder. But what matter most is your health and if suboxone helps that stay on it but maybe try lower doses to see if that helps when the right time comes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:53 am 
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I wouldn't say it makes me completely emotionless, but I will state that it seems to do so with the middleground emotions. Let me explain, in a situation where I won the lottery, I would be doing backflips and crying from joy. In a situation where a person died I loved, I would be destroyed and very sad. But the less drastic things seem to float on by me. Like the other day, I went to pick up my subs and the pharmacist obviously was judgemental towards me for it(trying out different pharmacies, obviously they won't be getting my business anymore). Normally I would have been upset by this and also quite pissed off, but I was just like of like "Eh..what a douche man...eh...oh well whatever'...." So I will say to an extent, but it doesn't keep me completely emotionless, only on the less serious ends of the spectrum. I hope this makes sense at all?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:51 pm 
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RMAdam wrote:
I wouldn't say it makes me completely emotionless, but I will state that it seems to do so with the middleground emotions. Let me explain, in a situation where I won the lottery, I would be doing backflips and crying from joy. In a situation where a person died I loved, I would be destroyed and very sad. But the less drastic things seem to float on by me. Like the other day, I went to pick up my subs and the pharmacist obviously was judgemental towards me for it(trying out different pharmacies, obviously they won't be getting my business anymore). Normally I would have been upset by this and also quite pissed off, but I was just like of like "Eh..what a douche man...eh...oh well whatever'...." So I will say to an extent, but it doesn't keep me completely emotionless, only on the less serious ends of the spectrum. I hope this makes sense at all?


Wow, that was an excellent way of describing it!! That's exactly how it has altered me. I envy those of you who are able to actually identify the change in your emotions, though, because I was clueless. It wasn't until I started really getting my dose low that I started to see a drastic difference in myself. There are all these fun little things to do. I stopped doing a lot of them and, for the most part, I did not even realize this. They sorta just slipped away out of my life. I'm not talking exclusively about stuff that would be categorized as 'hobbies' either. I'm talking about very small things, like going outside because the air smells fresh and the sun feels good, driving down some random road just to see where it goes, or looking up words you don't know in some book you're reading because you want to know. Very small things that are somehow still interesting and satisfying. I kinda wanted to do the bare minimum and then veg in front of the computer or tv at night. I'm not even off Sub yet, but I feel so different that I'm pretty shocked. However, it is also not an easy thing to handle. I struggle with it quite a bit, actually. I am not content to veg anymore. I want to do something, but frequently, I don't know what exactly it is I want to do. I just don't want to sit around and veg. I have a restless feeling much of the time. Hopefully, during tapering, you get a chance to adjust to the change in how you feel.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:51 pm 
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RMAdam and Laddertipper,

You seemed to have hit the nail on the head as far as my emotionless thing went. I guess it wasn't that I was completely emotionless, I still got the extreme highs and lows while on Suboxone, but a lot of the "middle ground" stuff was missing?? I didn't even notice it until I got off of Suboxone. I used to be a MAJOR couch potato. If I wasn't at work, I was at home on the couch watching TV. As Ladder said, I was content with living a life of doing the absolute bare minimum while on opiates.

Before I got on opiates, I used to be fairly active, I used to enjoy being outside and putzing around, I used to enjoy reading sciency (is that even a word?) magazines and computer related stuff. But it all kind of drifted away without me really realizing it. I've been off Sub's for a while now and all those interests did not come crashing back all at once, but I know this, I am NO longer a couch potato. It takes all of me to sit and watch an episode of StarGate Atlantis (one of my fave's). I have little to NO desire to "sit around" anymore, I have and still am getting back into doing the things I like and it's........wonderful. I would have to say the best part of being off of opiates is the fact that I'm a better husband and a better daddy. My wife told me a little while back that this has been the best year of our 16 year marriage. She says I'm much more outgoing, she said I'm kinder and most important of all, we have sex ALL the time now.....didn't do that while on opiates!!! My daughter told me that I'm funnier now, that I don't get mad like I used to and that I spend more time playing with her and going to her "events" (6th grade graduation, baseball, dance classes, etc.)

That's my personal story, it's how opiates, including Suboxone, treated me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:06 pm 
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ya" ladder i kinda did the same! except for finding words i don't understand, i do a lot more of that being on suboxone.
today i was playing horse shoes with my 4 brothers. the weather was hot, and was sweating my arse off"
and had to go home. i noticed that i can't be in the hot sun to long wile on suboxone. felt like i was going to pass out.
also trying to explain my emotions to my brothers wile on subs, did not mount to much of anything. it freaks me out people don't have a clue, of what people are going through on subs. i just got that alone feeling. my friends and family don't think its my emotions". they just think that i'm trying to avoid them for some reason.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Suboxone helped to bring all of my emotions back! I laugh :P I love to joke around :wink:
and am no longer numb :shock: like I was on opioids!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:40 am 
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LifeIzGut wrote:
Suboxone helped to bring all of my emotions back! I laugh :P I love to joke around :wink:
and am no longer numb :shock: like I was on opioids!


I feel like this emotions thing is very easy to misunderstand. Compared to active use, I think that hands down, there's not doubt that when a person goes onto Suboxone, they will feel a million times more in touch with emotions and life in general. How could they not? Really, there's no comparison. So, when I talk about Suboxone affecting the depth and breadth of my emotions, I'm talking about the difference between being on Sub versus being on nothing, not being on Sub versus active addiction. Does that make sense? I don't doubt that someone with a very long history of opiate abuse would also probably have trouble remembering what they even felt like before being on opiates. A few people on here have reported that experience....

Just wanted to make that clarification.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:33 am 
This has been an interesting subject to me. I remember Bboy's other thread about this, too. Like Lillyval, I've been hesitant throw my 2 cents in as well. I have given the subject quite a bit of thought though.
Firstly, I have to say that I think Laddertipper is right on the money in mentioning that our answer to the question "Does Sub make you emotionless?" is very dependent upon what we're comparing our emotional status to. I have to agree that an individual with a history of opiate abuse dating back to their teen years may not really have a true emotional baseline with which to compare their emotions while on buprenorphine. That just makes sense to me. It seems that one would have to have a baseline which was not under the influence of any substance in order to make an accurate comparison.
My own personal experience with Sub and emotions has been similar to what Ladder, Lilly, Romeo and RM described. I am certainly not "emotionless" but I do feel that Sub has an impact on my emotions to some extent. I didn't notice it at first....I think because at first I felt such relief from the drug-seeking obsession I had been living with for so long. But over time (now on Sub for almost 2 years) I have definitely noticed a little bit of a flattening of my emotions or feelings. Unfortunatley, I am not one who can say that Sub works as an antidepressant for me, as I have had some very low moods while on it. I don't blame that on the Sub, however....not at all. It's just that I can't say that the Sub has prevented depression for me. On the other hand, I have had some real exciting, happy things happen during this past couple of years, which would normally have had me just bubbling over with happiness or crying with joy or sentimentality, that I did not react to all that strongly. I guess I just find that I am not feeling things or not able to respond to things with quite as much emotion as I did before I ever started using opiates.
Again, it's not that I don't have feelings or emotions. It's just subtly different than before. This is something that I don't think I even really noticed until after I had been on Sub for a good six months to a year. I also have noted a difference in this at the times when I'm on a relatively low dose versus a higher dose. Certainly, when I was down to only 1-2mg/day, I was able to see a difference in my emotional responses.....I wouldn't say it was a huge difference, but it did help some.
So, I guess, all boiled down, I'd say that I'd take this somewhat blunted emotional state over the chaotic emotions of active addiction any day! On the other hand, I'm anxious to see if I notice a return of my stronger emotions when I am completely off the Sub.
It's just so very subjective, isn't it? This drug sure can affect us all differently and we all have our own perspectives on it. Hopefully some others will chime on this subject as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
RMAdam and Laddertipper,

You seemed to have hit the nail on the head as far as my emotionless thing went. I guess it wasn't that I was completely emotionless, I still got the extreme highs and lows while on Suboxone, but a lot of the "middle ground" stuff was missing?? I didn't even notice it until I got off of Suboxone. I used to be a MAJOR couch potato. If I wasn't at work, I was at home on the couch watching TV. As Ladder said, I was content with living a life of doing the absolute bare minimum while on opiates.

Before I got on opiates, I used to be fairly active, I used to enjoy being outside and putzing around, I used to enjoy reading sciency (is that even a word?) magazines and computer related stuff. But it all kind of drifted away without me really realizing it. I've been off Sub's for a while now and all those interests did not come crashing back all at once, but I know this, I am NO longer a couch potato. It takes all of me to sit and watch an episode of StarGate Atlantis (one of my fave's). I have little to NO desire to "sit around" anymore, I have and still am getting back into doing the things I like and it's........wonderful. I would have to say the best part of being off of opiates is the fact that I'm a better husband and a better daddy. My wife told me a little while back that this has been the best year of our 16 year marriage. She says I'm much more outgoing, she said I'm kinder and most important of all, we have sex ALL the time now.....didn't do that while on opiates!!! My daughter told me that I'm funnier now, that I don't get mad like I used to and that I spend more time playing with her and going to her "events" (6th grade graduation, baseball, dance classes, etc.)

That's my personal story, it's how opiates, including Suboxone, treated me.



Romeo your post just moved me in a special way, because I fell me and you had a very similar experience from coming off suboxone or lowering the dose of suboxone at least. I had the same problems while on suboxone once I started Sub maintenance the things I loved and enjoyed so much where no longer fun or enjoying to me I would say, I could and still can’t explain it. I think the biggest thing was spending time with my family, my GF, friends and so many other people I enjoyed being around I just didn’t want to be around anyone that was in a good mood because Sub pulled so far away from emotions at times I could not relate and for a long time I thought it was me and my mental health which in turn cause me more stress and anxiety. Tv shows that I use like for example where no longer funny or entertaining to myself in the least bit. But mostly I had no energy to be active I love being outdoors taking walks and all that fun stuff you do outside but suboxone made me want to sit inside all day and do nothing the sun was like a fire two feet away from me. But once I got off suboxoen even while tapering in withdrawal, all these things that I no longer enjoyed came back to me like a wave of emotions just took over my body and all the sudden these fun great things were back to normal. All I want to do now is spend time with my people close to me, be outside at all times my favorite TV shows and movies are now again funny are awesome and great to watch. But mostly just like you people keep saying to me the old Brent is back like how your wife and daughter notice the changes it is the same thing for me. My mom said the other day that this is the first time in 5 years she has seen me with a smile on face and this happy same with my dad and gf. But mostly sex my gf said the other night lying in bed it is like we are making love for the first time all over again just like when we first started going out in highschool just that rush that excitement is the most wonderful thing. Like I am actually having sex to have sex not just to please her but I enjoy just as much now.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:27 pm 
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ya you guys i can some what remember those days. now i'm just diluted in my emotions. i was talking to the hospital today.and there planing on admitting me for 31 days of detox. i sure hope that i am doing the right thing. and maybe i won't be
farting around on this site for a wile or longer. shit i took 30mgs and feel calm probably before the storm. shit now i'm short of sub. but i must make my self feel ok. my family and any one else just don't understand suboxone. thay treat me like stranger or something. i guess i better watch beavis and butthead and see if i can laugh my head off. i used too!" :( ---- :lol: any advice? thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:10 pm 
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All opiates do.

That's why we love them so much?


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