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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:55 am 
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In a rehab lecture they mentioned that there's a belief that people who become addicts, Esp those who settle for depressant drugs like opiates and tranquillisers, experience emotions that are more intense than others, or that they're more sensitive to emotions in general. That's why we're drawn to using those drugs because they offer some respite from these intense or extreme feelings...

So it could be said that this barrier / slight cotton wool some of us feel envelopes us on Suboxone is largely responsible for its anti-craving effect. I'd remember when I'd go off opioids, esp maintenance, I'd feel like everything was bright, intense and raw again... and I loved it. It was only after I started to feel it overwhelm me that I wanted a break from it all, and it was then that I'd often relapse. Sub offers a barrier so I don't feel like I need to escape into using stronger opioids. But it offers a barrier because it's an opioid, and its effect, albeit mild in comparison, is not much different to other opioids.

Also, pretty much every psych medication I've been on has led to some kinda emotional detachment from the world. Actually, any psychoactive drug in general has the effect of altering emotion so that the feeling experienced doesn't reflect what's happening in my life at the time. ie while on strong anti-depressants, a breakup or a death doesn't effect me as it should. Same goes for using heroin - while in active addiction I could be at a funeral wondering why I wasn't feeling any grief or sadness. Lithium seems to make me more calm and detached, though my general feelings still reflect what's going on around me. Once I've become stabilised on Suboxone, my emotions do accurately reflect what's going on around me ... it's just that their volume has been turned down a bit. That's the best way I can describe it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:43 pm 
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it should be very understood to take drugs and being addicted for no reasen. but at time i feel like i was taken . just because i had a abused life and now on suboxone i feel like shit also. so what the fuck can i do and just get on and live even though
my family is drifting away and don't like me on subs because they no i changed.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:57 pm 
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johnboy wrote:
it should be very understood to take drugs and being addicted for no reasen. but at time i feel like i was taken . just because i had a abused life and now on suboxone i feel like shit also. so what the fuck can i do and just get on and live even though
my family is drifting away and don't like me on subs because they no i changed.



Can you please let us know how and why sub makes u feel like shit and how does your family think ed you changed? I do want to say you have other options and if things are really going so bad with suboxone you should look into them also does your Dr know what's going on?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:14 am 
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johnboy wrote:
it should be very understood to take drugs and being addicted for no reasen. but at time i feel like i was taken . just because i had a abused life and now on suboxone i feel like shit also. so what the fuck can i do and just get on and live even though
my family is drifting away and don't like me on subs because they no i changed.


Johnboy how's your lexapro going? Does your psychiatrist know about this?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:07 am 
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no one really wants a drug to live' and i'm getting sick of going to docs and shit. ya tear3 the lexapro is playing a part but
i need it" it keeps me out of depression eve though i get a little moody with people and family, i'm just more plain/real/
tough at time's and all way's demanding the better of some one and family and every one hate's that!! :? in a way i guess i'm doing better on subs/lexapro i'm more health'er and lost 60pnds, shit" what can i lose with that.
i don't konw but i see my family stay the same and i'm changing and kinda want them to change along with me, but it is not going to happen. i just can't be that sick or nut's because what my family is treating and thinking about me.
it just seem's is they don't give a dam, or really don't understand my treatment and it really can't be that hard to understand dam- :lol:b-boy i would try methadone' but i don't here much better story's about it and i can see it tire me out" i tried it and it felt like a down'r :lol: i guess that's all i can say is flock what every one thinks about my treatment and no one is cure all are
ailments.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:18 am 
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i'll say this'. don't show any kind of sickness or weekness around my family or friends /people in my area". or they will pray on you like a pack of wolfs :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:01 am 
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not every body. but i bet you no what i'm geting at' we are sick?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:34 am 
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thats right romeo'. it makes more of an understanding to me now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:55 pm 
YES! yes it did. I felt nothing. Here's where i stand now, 4 months after stopping the sub.

I have little energy but have my emotions back.

on subs- I had energy but zero emotions.

I'm enjoying life more now. That's just me anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm 
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tear" my doc has known about all this from the start, and no's he can't do much.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Hey guys with all the heat behind this thread I had it moved to the freestyle section, so people can post how they really feel on this subject. I can't tell you how many messages I got from members wanting to post in this tread because they are feeling the same side effect but didn't want to get attacked by a couple mods and there followers. Now that there is a section were we could post our true feelings without worrying you'll get banned for debating. So I figure I'll bring this topic back to light.


But ever since I started this thread it has came to light that a lot of people on suboxone have lost all feelings or being numb to emotions they felt there whole life before starting suboxone. I myself was on suboxone for four years and they were the worst years of my life I was always in pain, but I could deal with the pain. I couldn't deal with not having any emotions. How many friends I lost and so many family party's I missed because of this side effect. Any ways let's get this thread back up and going.

But please guys let's be adults about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:13 am 
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Can I ask you something Bboy? What drug were you on when you started taking sub, and was there a huge difference to you emotionally between the two? And you're now on methadone, right? Obviously you feel like you have your emotional life back, at least somewhat. Is the emotional numbing not a side effect of methadone and all opiates, or just in different degrees? Also, if someone told you, "You're on methadone, so you're living in an emotionless haze," would that bother you?

I'm truly curious about how different people feel on different opiates. Also, the reason I sometimes don't like this type of thread is because someone will come along and make a blanket statement about everyone who is on sub, like the one I made up about methadone. I wish everyone could just share their own experience. Instead we get people telling us, "This was my experience, so it is your experience as well." I think that's what most people find objectionable about these kinds of threads. I'm fine with being warned that this is a possible effect of suboxone, but I don't want to be told what I am or am not feeling.

I don't know if I'm more numb than usual on sub. I do know that I laugh heartily, I love deeply, and I feel emotional pain far more often than I want to. Still, I have an open mind that I could feel even more once I'm off sub. Time will tell.

Amy

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 Post subject: Swing Effect
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Considering I have not gone back and read all the posts from the beginning, I do wonder why there was so much "heat" discussing this topic. Most all drugs have some kind of effect physically, mentally, or both.

For one I think TJ said it all on an earlier post but I just want to add some points. Have you ever heard of the swing effect of drugs? It has to do with the opposite happening when you stop taking a chemical. Meaning, if you did meth (crank) and stopped after your four days of not sleeping, you will sleep deeply and long. Take downers and stop, you have insomnia and the jitters. Whatever makes you swing one way you'll swing back the other way when you stop.

With Suboxone I think it depends of how much you are taking. At 8-26mgs I do feel somewhat in a slight fog if I'm not doing something. If I'm busy then it has no effect. When I got down to 1mg, my libido came back and the fog lifted almost completely. Some others don't feel any change in their emotions because they probably operate on a high level of energy, comparable to keeping busy. (this is only a guess people)

When I stopped drinking many years ago I was warned about my emotions coming back. By the second and third month of sobriety they came back with a vengeance. Just watching a commercial on TV would bring me to tears of sadness or joy. The swing had swung way up on me due to the many years of being drunk. My dog died during one of my opiate w/d's and I cried for two weeks. When my Mom passed away I was on a high dose of pain meds and didn't shed a tear. To this day I don't think I've grieved properly. The dam will break when I end up stopping the Sub. (if I ever do)

So that's my 2¢. Pretty much the same stuff we've all been sayin'. Go to AA or NA and they'll say the same thing about the emotions. That's where I first heard it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:26 am 
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Amy if your asking what opiates I was taking before suboxone, that would be OxyContin and Fentora. I never felt a connection between my DOCs and suboxone emotionally. During my active addiction I was on an emotional roller coaster one minute your best friend the next I wanted to kill you. Than once I started suboxone I never felt a single emtion no anger no joy and when you live your life like that you are going to start to hate what causes that and so I did. So once I started methadone and got my emotions back it was the best feeling ever. Now does methadone numb my emotions I don't believe so but I have not felt any over the last four years so I don't know what normal is but this is the closest thing to normal I remember since starting methadone. As of it bothering me if someone said methadone makes you have to live your life in an emotional haze I would not get angry the least bit. Instead I would try and understand why they think that way and are they speaking from personal expirence?


And Amy one thing I want to make clear. I have always said these are my personal believes and only mine. I can and will not speak for anyone else. So this is me sharing my personal expirence just like the others have. We never said this is going to happen to you and everyone else. I never understood why so many people thought that. If anything the mob lynch crew was telling us we are not feeling what we say we are.


Sorry for the sloppy post early work day real early.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:35 am 
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Bboy, it has always been clear to me that you are describing your own experience. I wasn't targeting you at all when I talked about people making blanket statements. I don't believe I've ever behaved reactively about this subject, except toward Hessler. I have looked at this subject less defensively lately than in the past though, which is why I've said that I can't know for sure until I've tapered off the sub.

Like I said, I think people are reactive and defensive on this subject when people go beyond describing their experience into the presumptuous area of telling people that they experience the same thing, but won't admit to it. I think that sometimes that reaction can bleed over onto other threads, just because the subject came up, and people are immediately defensive against an attack that never comes. That's not where I was coming from at all, but if there was a lynch mob mentality in this thread, it's probably from the ripple of old reactions. The positive I see here, though, is that this thread, instead of denigrating into a shouting match, seems to be moving in a positive direction. I like that.

I truly wanted to hear your experience on the different opiates. I'm sure that if I had been feeling no emotions for the last several months, it would have driven me crazy too. It obviously made a lot of sense for you to switch to methadone. Thanks for sharing!

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:09 am 
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Hey Amy sorry for coming off deffensive I just always tried to make it clear that this is solely my personal expirence/believe. But you are right you didn't say anything along those lines. I'm just so use to people jumping down my throat in this thread so I guess that was my natural reaction. But as to your true question at hand about my emotions on different opiates I can elaborate more on that. It's rather odd when I think about this because looking back I had a different emotional reaction on every opiate I've taken, suboxone was just the worst. OxyContin my emotions were actually heightened, I could cry overs a sad commercial or movie in the snap of a finger. Fentora it was the opposite my emotions are still heightened but I was always happy it was non stop smiling always bringing back in the day stories to the table. But literally as soon as I started suboxone my emotions started becoming more and more less noticeable I'd say by the 9 month mark all emotions were gone. I was always finding me saying to myself that how come I'm not angry in this situation or why am I not sad right now and this continued for the next 3years and change. Than once I started my detox oh my god I got hit with a wave of emotions that I haven't felt in years. And than I started the methadone and my emotions were I'd say back to my norm or close too. I felt joy I felt anger and so on.


And I also agree its nice to see that this thread is def going in a positive direction for the first time in a long time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:30 am 
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I too am experiencing this issue. It really sucks because I can't even hold a conversation with people unless I have just dosed on subs and sometimes shortly after for a bit. But eventually I go emotionless. Even writing this is difficult. This is my second time on Subs. I was on them for 4 years before and got off and stayed off for 3-4 months although actively using. Now I'm back on them and back to that empty feeling. I have been back on for 3 months and I just started school so I don't want to make any drastic changes to my doses for fear of my A-social personality side effect getting worse and me being unable to focus.

You sharing how things are going for you is very motivating. 10 mins ago there was no light at the end of the tunnel for I had forgotten what it felt like to breathe that free air. So thank you for that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:31 am 
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MaguiGizmo wrote:
I too am experiencing this issue. It really sucks because I can't even hold a conversation with people unless I have just dosed on subs and sometimes shortly after for a bit. But eventually I go emotionless. Even writing this is difficult. This is my second time on Subs. I was on them for 4 years before and got off and stayed off for 3-4 months although actively using. Now I'm back on them and back to that empty feeling. I have been back on for 3 months and I just started school so I don't want to make any drastic changes to my doses for fear of my A-social personality side effect getting worse and me being unable to focus.

You sharing how things are going for you is very motivating. 10 mins ago there was no light at the end of the tunnel for I had forgotten what it felt like to breathe that free air. So thank you for that.



so did you feel "more alive" while using???

I'm just curious....... cuz maybe it's something else your feeling while on suboxone??
since you ONLY have experience with suboxone, then actively using for the last four years???

I don't know, but I'd say it's either your dose maybe to high, or maybe even too low???

OR, your just getting older, and some of us, just "don't care" more and more as we age???

I know this is WAY MORE QUESTIONS than answers,,,

I was just sorta surprised by what you wrote, and WANT TO HELP!!!!

I hope you DO feel better soon, at any rate :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:22 pm 
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I felt very similar to Bboy on this topic. At first Suboxone didn't impair any of emotions. I actually felt happier, more normal.

That didn't last. I started to feel well, emotionless. I could still feel if i kept digging deep enough to GET to those emotions, but I could sit through a horrible nearly relationship ending fight and not bat an eye. Something I would be absolutely MISERABLE about any other time.

I don't like that. I didn't like not being able to feel anything when my son would start crying. I didn't like feeling my thoughts getting cloudy, or the thoughts that normally would be there - just weren't.

It was like living with duck tape wrapped around everything. You can still feel if they push hard enough, but the basic instincts and feelings are so damn muted it's like they almost aren't there anymore.

I could see it turning me into a nut-job If I remained in that state for 10-15 years.

Just my opinion on how I felt during my experience, no offense to anyone elses experiences. We're all different.

-WTBF


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:16 am 
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amber4.14.11 wrote:
so did you feel "more alive" while using???

I'm just curious....... cuz maybe it's something else your feeling while on suboxone??
since you ONLY have experience with suboxone, then actively using for the last four years???

I don't know, but I'd say it's either your dose maybe to high, or maybe even too low???

OR, your just getting older, and some of us, just "don't care" more and more as we age???

I know this is WAY MORE QUESTIONS than answers,,,

I was just sorta surprised by what you wrote, and WANT TO HELP!!!!

I hope you DO feel better soon, at any rate :wink:


What mean you I only have experience with Suboxone? I have experience with other opiates. I should say it's not just when I dose my Sub I go emotionless it's just taking suboxone for a prolonged amount of time. My ex broke up with me because she didn't think I loved her anymore because of how emotionless especially intimately I am.

I have been off Subs for long enough to have seen how I am being clean and I have no problems. On Subs I am so aloof I no longer have a passion for the hobbies I once had. It's like I am just blank towards everything. I have tried many different doses but more often then not I just can't do the stuff I used to enjoy. And it's not for a lack of wanting to I just can't find any joy in it. I don't believe my age is effecting any of this because I do care for the things I want to do but it just feels like that has all been sucked out of me leaving me blank.

I have just started tapering slightly, in hopes to relieve myself of all this crap I am dealing with. I just hope I can achieve the end goal at home since I last did it in rehab.


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