It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:14 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:52 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
Does Norco (hydrocodone) qualify for Suboxone treatment? I have had tremendous success with my Suboxone treatment coming from an Oxyconton/Norco addiction. She is also using Xanax, Soma, Amitriptyline, Gabapentin. We are trying to get her off the Norco and Xanax.

She's has several surgery's, a gastric bypass and Osteoarthritis arthritis. She takes up to 6 Norco per day - She started taking my Vicodin (1/2 pill) about 6 years ago and shortly there after got her own prescription. She doesn't take anything stronger from the opiate menu. She has a pretty weak constitution when it comes to medications. Between our addictions, its just about ruined our relationship. I want her to feel as good as I do now.

Am I whistling in the wind here :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:24 pm 
Absolutely hydrocodone abuse/addiction "qualifies" for treatment with Suboxone! There are LOT of people out there addicted only to hydrocodone. My guess is (as in my case) that eventually, if the addiction is not arrested, she will graduate to stronger opiates. But there's no need for her to get worse before she gets better! Also if she admits to taking up to 6 Norco a day, chances are pretty good that she actually takes more than that. The fact that she is also taking Xanax and Soma with it is quite concerning as well. I think it's pretty widely known that the hydro/Soma or hydro/benzo cocktail is pretty intoxicating. I think there is cause for concern for her.
The thing is though - she's the one who's got to acknowledge and accept the fact that she's an addict (if indeed she is) before any type of treatment can help her much. You know from your own experience thus far that Suboxone is a great tool for recovery from opiate addiction, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. As far as the benzos - that's another mess. From my understanding, you cannot simply cold turkey quit benzos without the risk of seizures so she definitely will need help with that addiction as well. Suboxone is for OPIATE dependence and/or addiction so that includes anything in that family of drugs (heroin, hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, fentanyl, dilaudid, etc). Problems with other substances would have to be addressed apart from Suboxone.
A first step might just be to encourage her to see a doctor or be seen at a treatment facility and be evaluated to determine the extent of her problems. At that point she could begin the appropriate treatment program, part of which might include Suboxone.
Hopefully she will be able to see your progress in recovery, how much better you are getting, and she'll want that for herself. Good luck with everything. It will be difficult to maintain a relationship while you are working on recovery and your girlfriend or other close relationships are not.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:32 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
Thank you setmefree, shes going to talk to her family MD about a Suboxone treatment plan. I'm hoping that if she sees how good she feels w/o the opiates that it will motivate her to cut back on the Xanax and other meds. She has already had 2 or 3 seizures. I'm really scared that she doesn't fully understand how dangerous yo-yoing these types of meds can be.

Cindy if you're reading through these forums like I suggested, I want this for you, not for me and yes, I love you very much and want you to feel better and be healthier.

- Mitch

_________________
☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:55 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:29 am
Posts: 58
This is my first post, but might as well start somewhere. Suboxone is definitely appropriate for any kind of hydrocodone addiction. Her addiction seems small though, with only taking 6 norco a day as you mentioned. Try the lowest dose possible. I'm sure you probably know better, but just in case I wanted to mention this. So many people have been inducted on way too much suboxone, including myself. I should of started on 4mg but was given 8mg. I was inducted in July of 07, and my current dose is 1-2mg. I would like to taper soon again, but will wait until I am ready this time. -Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:42 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
Thanks Mike and welcome to the forum, For me, my MD didn't communicate a lot of very important information, I got lucky. I intend to make sure she gets the correct attention. The most important thing is that she has to want it for herself. Its like the old saying it doesn't matter how bad someone else want it for them, a drunk or addict has to want to do the work to get clean. But, the least I can do is be supportive.

_________________
☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:39 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:48 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Ohio
Mitch-

I am assuming the gastric bypass was for weight loss? I had the procedure in 2003, and what many people undergoing this procedure do not realize is that the dopamine release experienced from eating is no longer evident, leaving the person to look for some substance to take the place of food. Many doctors do not take the time to explain this to patients and leave them to develop other problems.

_________________
"It is never too late to be what you might have been!" - George Eliot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:21 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
Wow that explains a lot, how do you get the dopamine? - she hasn't been the same since the GB surgery, her health just went down the tubes in every way. She got so skinny we all thought she was going to die - now she weighs almost as much as she did when she had the surgery. Most of the time she can't hold food down, she eats a lot of junk food and Starbucks - its been a disaster in my opinion.

Maybe that's part of the reason she has so much trouble sleeping. She used to take Ambien and it was like dealing with a drunken, belligerent. She finally switched to Amitriptyline to help her sleep but it doesn't do much for her as far as a sleep aid.

Shes had surgery's on her neck and shoulder too. She just had her esophagus stretched out again today. I hope it worked out for you. Your whole life style changes when you have that kind of surgery and it takes a lot of work. Like I said I want to see her get healthy and happy again.

_________________
☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:10 pm 
Welcome to the forum MikeT. We're glad you're here. It's great for us to have new people and I think you'll find it'll be great for you as well! There is so much help and information here. Congrats on getting yourself down to 1-2mg/day. I'm down to 2-3mg/day and from what I understand it's at these lower doses that it gets more difficult. But it sounds like you're taking your time and trying to do it "right". It's real important that we take all the time we need to do this - our very lives could depend on it! When you get time you might want to go the "introduction" section or the "my addiction story" section and post a bit more about yourself so everyone will know you're here. I hope you'll do that and that you'll keep visiting and posting!

Mitch - sounds like your gal is in some troubled waters for sure! I'm glad she's agreed to start looking into getting some help. There sure seems to be an high incidence of gastric bypass patients who are falling into alcoholism and/or drug addiction. There was a gal in my outpatient program who was a post gastric bypass patient. It seems the prior addiction to food is not cured by simply removing the ability to eat so much. All the psychological aspects of addiction are still there and it seems that they are getting transferred elsewhere if you will. That, coupled with the fact that so many of these patients have other ongoing health problems whether directly caused by the obesity/surgery or not, leads to a huge potential for problems.
I am concerned about her benzo use. Benzos are not recommended to be taken with bupe, so her benzo addiction is going to have to be addressed. I have heard of folks getting started on Sub who are addicted to benzos, but they've got to be put on a pretty strict taper off those benzos. It's too dangerous to risk continued use of the benzos if she's going to start Sub and any good Suboxone doctor is going to tell her this.
You've got a lot to deal with and it's really difficult to watch a loved one keep sliding down the slipperyslope. Please continue to make your own recovery priority number one! At some point your girlfriend is going to have to either get on the wagon with you, or I'm afraid she (directly or indirectly) will pull you off with her. So be careful and take care!

Need to add here in regards to the comments I made about benzos: Diary of a Quitter and I were just discussing the issue and she pointed out that the danger with bupe and benzos lies more with IV use and to my knowledge she is correct. I overstated the danger here and need to clarify that (again to my knowledge) IF benzos are legitimately prescribed and needed and taken as directed AND you are taking your Suboxone as precscribed, the combination of the two should not be a problem. This is where it is so important to be under the care of good doctor so that any potential interactions or any other addictions can all be addressed properly. As Diary of a Quitter said - I would hate to see anyone who needs help with opiate addiction fail to get treatment because of concerns that they'll be required to get off benzos! That is not necessarily the case and I'm sorry I made it sound that way!


Top
  
 
 Post subject: my 2 cents...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:07 pm 
Mitch,
I would say that for someone who is truly using only 6 norco a day, then opioid maintenance is probably not that appropriate. If she's really only taking 6 a day, she may be psychologically dependent, but she's not physically dependent yet. And to just jump straight to Suboxone could be a mistake...I think it's a great idea to refer her to treatment like you did. Someone at the level of addiction she's at could benefit first from a round of cognitive behavioral therapy, and maybe some meetings. Plus, she's gotta deal with the benzo addiction, since that combined with any narcotic (including Suboxone) could lead to a respiratory crisis.
On the other hand, if she's actually using more norco's and some of your hydro's too, then Suboxone might be more appropriate after some treatment. It will be up to her. The big thing is, Suboxone only works if you don't really want to get high anymore. If you're done with the "games" of addiction, that's when you're ready for the Sub. Good luck to you and your friend.
JD


Top
  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: my 2 cents...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:40 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
jdhammond1982 wrote:
Mitch,
I would say that for someone who is truly using only 6 norco a day, then opioid maintenance is probably not that appropriate. If she's really only taking 6 a day, she may be psychologically dependent, but she's not physically dependent yet.

Shes already had 3 seizures, I think she has a bit of a physical dependency.

_________________
☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: seizures
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:07 pm 
those sound like more of something to do with the xanax....taking a few norco's a day isn't usually associated with seizures.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:53 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
If she had to go through opiate withdrawal for more than a few hours she wouldn't make it. I really don't think she strong enough to cut back or stop through opioid maintenance. Even if Sub treatment is a little bit overboard, as long as its safe, I feel like she would have complete success.

I know it seems like a small hurdle (even to me) but I know how those small hurdles can pile up when you're on opiates, benzos and sleeping pills. Were going to see what the MD suggests.

_________________
☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Hydrocodone
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:06 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:36 pm
Posts: 74
My addiction was to lortabs period. I took 8 to 10 a day on average, some days less, and trust me I had and have a problem. Suboxone treatment has been a godsend to me. There is no question in my mind that even at a lower dosage you can still have full blown addiction.

_________________
Promise me you will always remember...You are braver than you believe, you are stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think!

*Christopher Robin to Pooh


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Yeah...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:20 pm 
Yeah, Mitch, you're the one who is there and knows this person, so you are the only person who can say. It sounds like she's a real addict to me...and if she's asking you for your pain pills, she definately has a problem. I guess the reason I said what I did was because I think people do need to know that if they go on Suboxone, they will have to be on it for a while. I just didn't want her to be in a position where she would take it a little while and then not be able to get more. Basically, my brain was just malfunctioning as usual!!
So, anyway, how are you doing, Mitch? Is the Sub still going good for you? Let us know!
JD


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Also....
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:27 pm 
Also, just to let you know, my drug of choice was also "just" hydrocodone, i.e. Norco, Vicodine, etc. The reason was that I didn't use drug dealers, so I had to pretend to be a doctor and call in my own prescriptions to a pharmacy every day. Only Schedule 3 drugs can be called in by doctors, so I couldn't get any opiates stronger than hydrocodone. I still find myself being insecure around some of these addicts who were getting heroin and fentenyl and hydromorhpone....but for me, my addiction was just as life-threatening. So I actually understand your friend's predicament. Norco's are addictive as hell...I was taking about 50 or 60 a day at one point. I went to jail 5 times over those damn pills. If Suboxone's what she needs, hell yes get her on it. You sound like your a really good friend, Mitch. It sounds like she needs a good "clean" friend more than anything else right now. Peace
JD


Top
  
 
 Post subject: One more thing...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:36 pm 
Ok....
I just want to say....now that I've thought about it, I don't know why I said that about your friend not being physically addicted. That really wasn't right. I remember feeling sick after using very little amounts of pain pills early in my addiction...it's amazing how easy it is to forget....I just don't want to come across as some jackass know-it-all cause I'm not at all. Ever since you (Mitch) came on this forum I've really just wanted to encourage you in your new freedom from active addiction.
One thing that I think is encouraging also, is that I too was a benzo addict, I loved the Xanax's and Klonopin's, but when I went on Suboxone the cravings for those went away as well! So there are all sorts of possibilities with this stuff.
JD


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: One more thing...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:23 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 64
jdhammond1982 wrote:
I just don't want to come across as some jackass know-it-all cause I'm not at all. Ever since you (Mitch) came on this forum I've really just wanted to encourage you in your new freedom from active addiction.

You're not coming across that way at all - You have no idea how much I appreciate all the support and good vibes you (and everyone else) have put out.

_________________
☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group