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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:34 pm 
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I searched google, and wikipedia told me that Suboxone binds to the μ-opioid receptor. Does anyone know if Kratom binds to this same receptor, or does it bind to different receptors that just mimic opiate like effects?

The reason I ask is that I kinda had a little relapse the other day. I've been off subs for about 3 months, but a couple days ago decided to do Kratom to get "one last opiate high". I know, dangerous thinking, and I have to be sure not to ever go there again. But from what I've read on here, it takes the opiate receptors months to years to fully recover after years of Suboxone use, so I'm hoping I didn't just screw that up and the 3 months I already put in go down the drain.

Will my opiate receptors keep recovering at a steady pace, or is this a major set back towards their recovery? I'm hoping that cuz it's a more "natural" opiate, coming from a plant, that it didn't do too much damage. But I really don't know, I can't find any definitive research. I keep hearing people say it's not an actual opiate, it just affects the opiate receptors. To me this doesn't make any sense. What's the difference? I'm hoping that because people are saying it's not a real opiate that it might not have done too much damage, but since it binds to opiate receptors I just don't know. Please, if anyone knows anything about this lemme know!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:57 am 
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Hey Caboose,

Three months clear of suboxone huh? Good job!

I don't know the answer to your question. I understand why you asked it, but I have to say that I think it is a bit of a mine field if it does get answered. I can't guess what YOUR reaction would be, but let me tell you where MY mind would be if I was in your shoes.

#1- someone answers that Kratom does NOT affect the same receptors - I'm thinking, cool...that means I can do it again and it won't hurt anything.

#2 - someone answers that Kratom DOES affect the same receptors - I'm thinking, crap...well, I already did it once, I guess doing it again won't hurt anything. OR, if I've already screwed up with Kratom then I might as well get a decent high and get some real opiates and have one last blowout.

Listen, no judgement from me. I've used Kratom before for opiate WD, and I totally get how your addiction led you to want to have that one last taste of something. Hearing that Kratom is a "natural opiate" sounds just innocent enough to let your addiction trick you into thinking it's ok. I'm just saying maybe it would be a good idea to not focus on how much damage you have done with your slip up and instead move on from here with a lesson learned and extra resolve not to let it happen again.

Good luck Caboose!

Q


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:16 am 
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Hey kaboose.

Yes, Kratom does bind to mu-opioid receptors. This is what gives it the slight buzz it provides the user.

How much will it affect your short term recovery / PAWS? I personally don't believe one use of Kratom will wind your recovery back to square one, but at the same time you haven't done your recovery any favours. In my experience, using once in early recovery can push the clock back on one's recovery somewhat. You may find over the coming days or couple of weeks that your cravings are more intense than they were at the 3 month mark. However, if you keep it to just that one use, within a couple of weeks you should be back to where you were as there's no sustained use you gotta recover from.

If you keep using Kratom, or escalate your use back to the stronger narcotics like Oxy / methadone / heroin / bupe (arguable), then you'll definitely be back at square 1 or worse. So keep moving forward, and find some of your own ways to deal with the inevitable cravings that come with being free of opioids.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Hey thank you both for your replies! I understand your concern that if I hear about it effecting different receptors I might be more apt to try it again, viewing it as not so bad. I really don't feel like this is the case. I'm just trying to accurately gauge how much damage I may have done, and how long it'll take for my body and receptors to retain their previous state of homeostasis, or gradual recovery, that they attained during my 3 months clean.

A couple days, weeks, months? Or is there really no way to really know?
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:57 am 
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hey caboose,

ive seen your post for a few days now and ive been hesitant to answer because i dont want it to seem as if your getting a free pass, but knowing what i know about kratom i doubt it did any major damage as far as setting back the brains healing process. If i were you i wouldnt worry about how many days, weeks ect it will take to get back to where you were, but rather how your going to make sure it dosent happen again. I also dont want it to appear as though im pointing a finger or anything like that, but even a small relapse can be dangerous to your thinking patterns and if you just look at iy as no big deal that just leaves the door open for it to happen again.

i really liked both qhorse and tjs reply, and i agree. Instead of focusing on how far you set your recovery back, turn it into something positive or a lesson learned. Try and learn about what led you to use the kratom so you can be aware of it when cravings hit. If you look at it that way, its not really like you set your recovery back but instead learned an important lesson!

Dont worry about the past just be aware in the now :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Thank you for that! That actually makes a lot of sense! I'll try and start thinking about it like that. The good thing is that I'm not really worried about it happening again. For some weird reason, I didn't even enjoy the high whatsoever. I actually felt really uncomfortable the whole time, and even nauseous. Who knows, maybe Kratom just doesn't agree with me, or maybe my perception of drugs has radically changed over the past 3 months that there's just no way to enjoy it anymore due to the incredible guilt.

I just really hope now that I don't have to wait a long time for my brain/receptors to get back to their 3 month clean mark they were at. As long as I'm able to keep it to just this one relapse I'm thinking it shouldn't be too bad. I mean, compared to the 2 years of Suboxone maintenance prior to that, using Kratom one time shouldn't set me back too far, at least I hope. I just hate not knowing though! I wish there was a way to scan the brain or something and just check out what those receptors are up to!


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