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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Straight forward question.

Do you feel that being on sub takes some vitality from your life compared to if you were living now off opiates altogether?

Seriously having experienced life clean off opioids and life on subs, I feel like I'm not living. It's like I'm a shadow of my former self.

Something is missing. I feel old, like I'm not functioning as much as I should be at my age. I don't want to give up and accept this as my lot in life.

Subzone serves a purpose but fuck this as a way of life and screw anyone that forces on others as a a way of life.

Tj


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:26 pm 
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I know what your getting at with your question, or what your trying to ask. But see, Ive got this wierd thing going on lately..........

like, living without all the drama of chasing/selling/stealing MAKES me feel OLD, not the being on suboxone per say.
comprende??

I get up, excersise, go to work, stop at the grocery store on the way home. soon as I get in the door, here come the PJs, a lil news, dinner, and I fall asleep in the chair. Sounds old, right?
I know it doesnt help that I have a very physically demanding job, so Im beat when I get home, sometimes I work 12 hours a day.

I do hang out with my friends on the weekend, go to playdates and that sort of thing. But not the most thrilling, to say the least. Thats why Im kinda looking around for a dirt bike right now. I used to race cars when I was a teenager with my grandpa, and I really think that time in my life delayed alot of my 'risky' behavior.

I do feel old lately, and the fact that today, is a week that Ive had dentures, probably doesnt help. LOL
Yes, Im feeling much better about the teeth, it did take a few days to get 'over it' though.

so I guess MY answer is YES. but Im not sure its JUST the suboxone. I think its everything else around living this 'healthy' lifestyle.
But, I wouldnt change THAT, either.
Good topic , tear

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 Post subject: It Depends
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Hey TJ,

I understand the question but will have to say no, I don't feel old because of my Suboxone, I feel old because of my recent illness. From a year ago till today the person looking back at me in the mirror is not the same youthful dude. It's probably due to the stress of being sick and radiation to my mouth and neck.

On the other hand I do feel different when I take more Suboxone than necessary. The less I take the better I feel. Not that I feel bad on higher doses, just more tired and no motivation to get out and stay busy. I've been taking around 6mgs the last few months due to pain but now it is low enough for me to get back under 2mgs again. That's when I felt the best. Luckily I am one of those who can taper down and not have bad reactions or w/d's. It also makes me wonder just how bad it will be if I decide one day to give it up.

And of course the other reason I feel old is because I just turned 58 last month. Naw, just kidding. I do feel pretty good most of the time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Having just turned 54 3 weeks ago do I feel old? No. However I miss being that kid I was before I started the recovery life.I did have some balance before the age of say 46, but steped into a younger world that brought me to a pill habit I lost control of. So now I'm taking my sub an work a program. Good bye to people,places and things that aren't part of recovery. Work,home hobbie,my veg garden, some meetings an that's it! It does make me feel old at times. I was always looking for the fun things in life. The last year an ahalf I've had very little fun an not surenow where to find it.. I like being clean after38 years of useing something,but I feel like I'm missing something all the time. Idk.. I miss my boat that's for sure. Ya TJ is this it? I wonderall the time. Balance, that's the key for me I hope. Good topic..


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:01 am 
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I feel like I'd better put the post in context because reading it today I notice I got a bit carried away. Lastnight I'd had a big night out hopping from bar to club to bar, and it was really cold outside. I did that post just before passing out in my bed.

It's a really fucking cold winter at the moment, and I've noticed that while on Sub I'm much more sensitive to the cold. I seem to get goosebumps when most other people think the temperature is fine. This alone makes me feel less than the resilient person I know I have been. I gotta have a heater going by my feet pretty much non-stop. Reminds me of how my grandfather was before he passed away always covered in blankets with the house like a sauna.

Plus the fact I need to sleep a lot more than I would otherwise makes me feel like I've lost some kinda spark. This problem got in the way of my past relationship, and I get the feeling it's getting in the way of something more developing with a woman I'm seeing. It's not cool when they can get by on 6 hours and I gotta have 9-11 hours.

Then for the triple-threat, I go through periods on Sub where my libido wanes and my testosterone probably isn't what it should be.

Compared to my addiction I'm living a LOT more, experiencing a lot more, doing a LOT more with my life. But comparing how one is on Sub to how one is in addiction is a cop-out really. A person could be gambling away their life savings or be married and prowling the streets for hookers every night could throw off and say "well it beats active drug addiction!" Crawling miles through shit infested sewerage pipes beats active addiction! You could compare anything shite with active addiction and it'd come out looking like gold.

The real test is comparing being in recovery on Sub to being in recovery without leaning on a legal opioid.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:34 am 
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I literally took a deep breath before i started typing my response to this. I hate confrontation, and I hate arguing. So, hopefully this doesn't make anyone upset. It's just my opinion.

TJ, I think that this is an excellent topic for discussion. I personally have to go in the opposite direction that you are. Being off of painkillers, and on suboxone, has completely changed my life for the better. I have my days where I don't feel as great as I did before I started abusing painkillers, but I don't think that it has a single thing to do with suboxone. I have no choice but to take into consideration the years I spent ruining my body. The years of malnutrition, the years of little to no sleep, the years of putting all these harmful chemicals into my body. There is no way that suboxone is the culprit for my decrease in energy, aching bones, sensitivity to temperature, or the feeling of something missing in my life. If I ever forget just how hard I was on my body, I will inevitably look elsewhere for blame. It was me. Always me. And for me to blame it on the one thing that has actually given me my life back, is rediculous for me.

I 've spent a tremendous amount of time reading old threads on this forum. You aren't the first person to come along and mention that suboxone is the reason you feel "old" or "like you're missing something". I think as addicts, we have a responsibility to ourselves to give credit where credit is due, and to take responsibility where we should be taking responsibility. There are so many things that I have noticed about my body since I am no longer abusing pills. The reason? Because I am not high anymore. I am not numb anymore. These problems were there, I just didn't have the presence of mind to notice. Or the energy to care. All I was worried about was pills. I certainly am not going to blame suboxone for something that isn't suboxone's fault. It's my fault.

I hope that this didn't sound bitchy or hateful. It's just something that I feel strongly about and I, too, have noticed the same things you have TJ....but I am also older now. Which also contributes to some of these physical feelings. The mental ones such as "feeling like I'm missing something"? Well, that's also my job, to fill the void that I was filling with pills. Only this time around I am filling it with joy, family, friends, and any happy healthy thing I can find!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:03 pm 
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I'm not comparing being on Sub to being in addiction, to abusing pills or heroin. I'm comparing Sub to being off all opioids, off all drugs. And it's a hard point to make when most of those who've kicked sub and experienced the difference vanish off the forum.

Of course being on Sub is miles ahead of being in active addiction. As I said in my previous post, you can compare crawling through sewerage with active addiction and you'd still be miles ahead.

I'm talking about the people who've kicked Sub and have mentioned how much better they feel once they're off it, that being on sub felt like "living in a cave" and getting off it felt like finally opening up their eyes. One even said they felt traumatized by their time on Sub, that their memory of their time on it was hazy.

Honestly, compared to when I was on NO OPIOIDS including suboxone, I don't feel like I'm part of my life. I feel like I've got blinkers on, like things are dulled or blunted somewhat. This is what opioids do! And it's also the reason why I took them in the first place. But I have no reason to dull and soften reality anymore.

Sure it's miles ahead of active addiction, but it's nowhere near the same quality of life as living 100% clean.

It's great to not be a moderator and finally speak my mind with this stuff.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:05 pm 
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would not exp't this coming from ya tear'. ya i would :lol: i sleep more on subs to make the the time i stay awake working and runing my ass off and losing 70pd's and family a little envy because my brother's need to wait in line of me even though they
don't want to admit it :lol: i just woke up and do feel like where the heck is my life going.
we spent a lot of time doing the things a none drug or alco- user would even do, and this can change are life by it's seeming full fast speed thinking it's going by to fast and feeling older :o remember the song" LIFE IN THE FAST LANE.

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 Post subject: Feeling old
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Interesting topic. Here's my 2 cents:

I feel older because I am older. I started abusing pills when I was 41. I'm 47 now, and it is impossible to know how I would feel if I never had started abusing them. If I could magically turn back the clock and remove the opiate abuse from my history, would I feel any better now? It is impossible to say. In fact, many people say opiate abuse hides physical problems related to aging. I might feel a whole lot worse if I had never abused opiates.

There are so many factors that contribute to feeling older. Opiate abuse certainly doesn't help, but in my opinion it is the side effects of opiate abuse that contribute more to feeling old than the opiate abuse itself. For example, when I started abusing opiates I quit exercising, let my good eating habits slip, and generally "let myself go" in more ways than I would like to admit.

Another factor, and I know this might be controversial, is suboxone itself. My opinion is it is very unnatural in the way it works. I feel there are not enough long term studies to really gauge its effects on mood with long term use. To me though, it is very logical - if the feel good chemicals (endorphins) are continually being blocked, and the drug itself has minimal agonist effect, it follows that long term sub use could certainly lead to dysthymia or even full blown clinical depression. In fact, I believe a psychologist or psychiatrist reading your initial post would think "ah, this is classic depression talking".

Of course it is disingenuous of me to blame suboxone for any depression issues I struggle with. I have to remember why I started abusing opiates in the first place - probably to self medicate for that same depression.

So yes, I do feel much older than my age, but there are so many variables in play it seems too easy to simply blame suboxone.

Best wishes,
J


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:36 pm 
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I agree with Goinstrong for all the reasons she said and I also agree with Jimmy for all his same reasons. We ARE growing older and we did wreak havoc on our bodies via drug abuse. I could go on but apparently because I'm a moderator I'm not supposed to have an opinion.

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