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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:59 pm 
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I have recently came across in other search forums about the herb, Kratom. Have any of you used or researched the affects of this herb. I have no idea about it, but people are saying that it has gotten them off of pain-killers and has an anti-anxiety affect, mood enhancement, energetic affects and pain-killing affects in different size doses. I just thought it was an interesting topic and worth exploring more. What do you all think? I like to be open minded about these things. Please share your experiences with it. Good or bad?


Edit: Hi! I edited your title a little bit since this site doesn't advocate using kratom. Calling it a natural herb sounds a little too benign when it is very powerful. Amy-Work in Progress


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Hey Happy,
A definition by Dr J from the Talkzone..

"Kratom contains chemicals that include mu receptor agonists,
the chemicals do not show up (yet) in drug screens,but taking them
is no different from activating mu receptors with anything else,legal or
illegal. And the fact that Kratom is a plant should not make you think it is somhow "different "
if the chemicals in Kratom prove safe enough,they will eventually be extracted identified, manufactured,
and marketed in pill form-and likely be DEA scheduled at that point"...

Ive read things about this . If you go to the search box ,many posts on this will come up Happy.
Thats about all I have on this ...I have no experience using it either....


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Thanks razer, I had never heard of it before.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Happy, I can only tell you my experience was good for me at the time I used the Kratom capsules. Everyone's body naturally reacts differently to chemicals, so people on various forums will report different effects. My sub doctor only works 4 days a week from 11am-1pm, and since I work 9-5, M-fri, I could not get in to see him before I was out of suboxone. Not wanting to be ill, I searched the internet for articles and comments on Kratom, and decided to try it. Usually, you can find the capsules, I think 1 gram or 1/2 gram per capsule is pretty common. My doctor had actually recommended this herb when I had my first appointment with him, as he said it helps with the physical symptoms of w/d's. I had posted about my experience earlier in this forum, and a couple people gave me back some good feedback that I took to heart. I didn't experience any opiate euphoria effects, like some people claim to experience, but for the 3 or 4 days that I was out of suboxone, I took 4 capsules, 3 or 4 times a day, with food. I had extremely mild w/d symptoms from not taking my suboxone, but my goal in taking Kratom was to avoid any physical discomfort for a few days. The capsules helped me for what I was trying to achieve, as I was not using them to get "high" like some people on other forums will say that they experience.

I am not promoting the long term use, and you should research as much as you can, but I haven't taken any Kratom since those few days I was out of suboxone. It worked for me, but be CAREFUL, because everyone's body reacts differently to different substances as you probably know. Just letting you know my experience, and I don't plan on using them again, unless I am in a dire situation without my subs (I take 8mg a day, half a strip in the morning, and half after diner, daily). I hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:43 pm 
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Thanks Todd for your input. I was looking more into the anti-anxiety affect of this. I tend to have some anxiety at times and thought that this might be an option for people like me with anxiety problems. I wanted to see what the pros and cons were.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Hi happy,

The suboxone you are taking will block any effects that you would receive from Kratom. The anti-anxiety, and all other effects of this drug are from the stimulation of the opiate receptors. Anyone on suboxone should already be getting maximum coverage on these area's, thus the addition of kratom won't give you any added benefit. It would essentially be like taking a low dose of hydrocodone, or some other low grade opiate.

Hope this helps!

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:10 am 
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Hi Blondie! Thanks for the information you provided for me yesterday. As I kept reading about Kratom, of course you were right! lol My anxiety level was so high yesterday, I couldn't hardly stand it. I feel a little better today. I guess everybody goes through those days every now and then. Another thing, I think Karls and SA's posts got to me yesterday after reading them. Also, I was trying to cut my dose some. Gotta take baby steps! lol


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:40 pm 
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No problem, Cowboy. Kratom is a fuzzy topic because of the "natural" claims. In my opinion it is simply an opiate, an can be dangerous to recovery. I'm glad you worked through your bad day!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:39 am 
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Kratom is a rather unique drug in that a low to moderate dose will usually (but not always) be stimulating, while a high dose is almost always quite sedating. This is apparently because the active alkaloids have both stimulant and sedative effects. Which predominates probably depends both on blood level and individual differences between users.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:43 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Roundwater,
I think everyone needs some sort of relief from the daily stresses of life without turning onto the wrong road to recovery. I had talked to my counselor a couple days ago. She seems to think that Kratom would not present a problem with the suboxone. I just didn't know if it was worth spending the money to try it. I am just worried the subs will block all the effects of Kratom. Have you ever tried it while taking subs?
Thanks,
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:57 am 
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The likelihood is that Kratom will be blocked by suboxone and that you will be wasting your money. I think that we addicts tend to want a pill to help everything, so we look for a pharmalogical solution to whatever problems we are having.

I find it pretty strange that your doctor is almost advocating the use of Kratom. Does she know it's an opiate?

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:37 pm 
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Lol i find it rather amusing that people pass judgement on things they have either never taken or know anything about ..I used kratom well over 2 years and first of all it is not an opiate it does however bind to the same receptor as opiates mu receptor ..With that being said it us still a drug being a plant or not...opium comes from a plant and look at what it has done to me ..Kratom is one drug i easily put down with no problem "and thats a damn short list let me tell u that" but EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT and i do know that some people become very badly addicted to it ...I can also tell you it will get very expensive as u do develop a tolerance fairly quickly just like the evil shit we are all trying to beat right ? What im saying here is i DO NOT advocate its use for an addict however there are countless stories of it helping people with chronic pain and anxiety get off pills and thats all that matters in my opinion...But if you are currently on suboxone i doubt it would work and u are already goung down the right road and away from all the evil shit so why fix it if it aint broken right? There are countless ways to control anxiety exercise and yoga being 2 of the most proven ..I was recently on xanex for over 12 years and had to give it up to be on sub ..once i started exercising it was AMAZING how quickly all that just faded away ..Now as i said everybody is different and just because it worked for me doesn't mean shit..Its so freaking hard for some people who have hella anxiety and some people need help for that in different ways its just a thought...good luck


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:17 pm 
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alwaysthesame wrote:
Lol i find it rather amusing that people pass judgement on things they have either never taken or know anything about ..I used kratom well over 2 years and first of all it is not an opiate it does however bind to the same receptor as opiates mu receptor ..


I know Always wasn't speaking directly to me, but for the record I have taken Kratom and I have done quite a bit of reading about it. You're right that Kratom is not an actual opiate, but it does act in a way that is almost identical to one by binding to those receptors. There are many people who advocate for it's use as a safe alternative to actual opiates but I don't agree that it is as innocent as some try to make it seem. I took Kratom while trying to wein myself off pills and found it to be very helpful to knock out WD's. But, it is also used by lots of people to get high and can easily lead people to more serious addictions. You build a tolerance to it very quickly, you have to re-dose many times per day, and there are some pretty uncomfortable side effects when you start taking larger doses. I felt extremely nauseous from it most of the time, and found that it was altogether too much trouble to stay well on it when I had access to better opiates. The whole natural and safe claims are kind of scary because it just hasn't been studied for human consumption. There are no government regulations and no standards for safety because it is sold under the radar as "not for consumption" printed right on the labels. That little loop hole makes it impossible to know if what you buy contains any pesticides or other harmful chemicals.

The main issue I see with the OP taking it is still that the suboxone isn't going to allow the Kratom to give him any beneficial effects. I'm sure that anyone who has taken it will agree it isn't very strong compared to real opiates, even weaker ones like hydrocodone.

My guess is that the doctor that Happy asked about taking it with suboxone didn't understand what Kratom is, or how it works.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:06 pm 
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Thanks for all the input on Kratom. First of all, it was not my Dr. I talked to. It was my counselor, and she was going to research it . I just thought it would help with my anxiety. I have never tried it and most likely won't now because of the advice I have gotten on this forum. I consider this matter closed. Thanks Blondie and the rest of you! You have been a big help with my recovery and my wallet! lol


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:07 am 
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so how it goes? update us when you can :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:45 pm 
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I asked another counselor that had first hand knowledge of this subject, and she said it helped her with the wds from subs. She has been clean for 2 years now. It's nice when a counselor has been there and done that. What I wanted to know was if it would help with anxiety, she said that my dosage of subs was too high (20mgs) for it to work. So I chose not to try it. Like I said I have never heard of it and was just curious if it would help.
Thanks for all the replies


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