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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:51 pm 
I was doing a little searching and ran across this movie i really want to try to see. It's shot over in Europe where subutex is widely abused. Reason number nine million nine hundread ninety nine as to why the fuck we need to get off this shit.

Here is just some commentary i copied featuring some dialouge from the movie. It's called reindeerspotting. If it isn't clear how bad taking this shit is long term. Well say hello to your new drug of choice. fucking scary

ttp://behavenet.com/reindeerspotting


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Will,

Sounds like the guy in this film is shooting his sub and robbing people to pay for it.

Thats a pretty far cry from the people on daily sub maintenance who are in recovery and attempting to improve their lives. I dont think long term sub use leads people to IV drug use and crime.

And not all of us need to "get the fuck off this shit." Please speak for yourself.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:45 am 
I see your points and this is the freestyle place right? Really though is it a far cry from people on sub maintenance to get to that point? This reminds me of lets say for example. A chronic pain patient (CPP) or chronic pill popper who starts off on a prescription for oxycodone. Sure everything goes good for awhile. Eventually someone shows him how to use his medicine differently. Short time later moves to snorting. Then to shooting or pluggin. Or maybe they go straight from popping to shooting. Something just in this particular substance just "hooks" em. Well in retrospect to how people very easily go from taking a medicine to suddenly crossing the line of dependence to full blown addiction. Which is a fine fine line. I mean really is it a far cry? I don't think so at all. I've thought i've seen it all. I mean seriously. But everyday i learn a little more.

I remember what happened a long time ago when i first found a dealer with subs. stop signs. I was taking em for 10 days. Suddenly after running out for a week i tried going back to oxy. Only to find out that i needed way more oxy then normal. I said lets be economical and save money and just go buy more subs. Gee go figure... : / That was awhile before i ever thought about seeing a sub doc. It seems like bupe is there herion over there in certain places. It's only a matter of time before this spreads further to the junkies here in the U.S. Thus ruining this charade we have going with doctors. Then im sure it's going to be just like going to the clinic for daily visits for awhile.

I KNOW not everyone needs to get off of sub. Some people don't realize what life was before drugs. and without popping some sorta long acting drug that tickles those mu receptors. Who knows what the hell they might do. But still. I guess we need guinea pigs to find out some damage may cause long term in people at such massive doses. I'm sure if people were taking buprenex daily or something would be less determental in the long run. But im thinking that taking like 8,000mcg of bupe is going or even those on 16,000mcg of bupe, Good luck and god speed in what misadventures may await you. I wanna know what the long term effects are for these folks. And what better way then to take volunteers first.

Of course not everyone needs to get off sub. That message is for those few who are brave enough to ATTEMPT to face the world without the help of pain killers to cope with there current existence, lives, families, pets, job, ETC

On that not of not everyone needs to get off sub. Why not? And without rationalizing and threatening to go relapse or OD. That is your choice. and i AM prochoice. I believe it was romeo who brought this point up to me. Opium has been around for AWHILE now what did all those addicts do in our history? Did they just die? Did they go on maintenance of some sort? Did they just suck it up and drive on? Think about before methadone and suboxone. There has always been alot of people hooked on opiates/opiods for along time. The relapse rate may be high for people. But PLENTY of people get off. And stay off. So why would you want to be one foot at the finish line.. and NEVER take that final step? I'm curious, is it just easier to stay on the drugs? OF COURSE IT IS.

When i took 6 days off of bupe at 12mgs a day just to gauge how hot the fire is that i am in. It brought me to where i am today. Im not angry at the lifers. I'm simply skeptical at this point. Without rationalizing a reason to stay on the drugs. Why don't people rationalize ALL that EFFORT of defending there daily pain pill use into reasons that they would like to get away from it all. When does enough become enough. For me, rock bottom is one more step away as i build myself up in my personal life. Just to take the plunge back into hell when i get off this stuff. But i know deep down in me that i am trying to rationalize whats really right in my mind right now. I am for once. Not rationalizing reason to STAY on painkillers. Your mind is your best friend and worst enemy. I am learning this now. Fact is. it is beatable. If we can take ourselves away from what is in front of us. Really think about life.

My uncle down here in south florida. Uncle glen. He doctor shopped 5 times in one week for the scripts of 180 ir oxy 30's back before all the prescription databbase bullshit. He served 4 years in prison. The fact that he knew that it was all over was kind of bittersweet it seemed. It just logical for him in that position to continue any kind of pain pill use. (no kidding, right?) He got out almost 3 years ago and moved to chicago to be with my aunt and child. He know works full time and takes care of his family like any man or women should strive to do. Alls he does once or twice a week is smoke a tiny amount of pot. Now what im wondering is... Is it neccesary to go to prision to realize your ride is all over with? Can't we all hope hope to reach that point? I'd like to THINK so. To me using sub or methadone forever is just like calling a timeout in the game. I really just want to see it through to the end and have it be over with eventually.

Recovery is different to everyone. For me, a huge step in recovery is stopping the abuse of pain pills. Another big step is to STOP the pain pills. My life is actually going well on subs. Im getting promoted to captain at my job. I paid off my SUV. I mean, really it's going fairly good in the direction im headed. But i still have a problem with pain pills. I still take them daily. In the form of subs. To me, that is unacceptable. I want to unpause where i left off with this battle and see it all the way through. Try to stop subs and realize feels like.

People say subs make them feel normal. What the heck was your normal before? Jeezus, i cannot in my right mind tell anyone that it makes me feel normal. That's pure insanity. I'd like to you to submit yourself for testing without subs to see if you were 24/7 walking around with your mu receptors constantly being stimulated with a square peg that partially fits into a perfectly circle space. Whether or not the analogy makes scientific sense. Where you really feeling that way before addiction? Hm, I personally don't buy it. And i really get anxious when i see sooo many people say that.


I know this is way off topic. This is just another theraputic rant/rave from me on my current thoughts in this very mixed up world we (addicts) live in. This is just based off of one persons account using suboxone for a year. Indivual experiences may vary.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:39 am 
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First, I like to say that your experience with the 6 days off of 12mg was a good way to gauge how bad the withdraws would be if you were to go to jail or something and be without. But say you did go thru the physical withdraws and got off suboxone. Then what? There is so much more to getting off subs than the physical withdraw. It seems like people think they can get off subs and their life will be great. That if they beat the physical withdraws that they can do anything. WRONG! After I got off subs for over a year abstinent, I still had an addictive mind. I was able to do it on my own for 18months but I needed something to fix my addictive brain. Suboxone helps with that. So just like I would take a Lexapro AS an anti-depressant, I will take a SUBOXONE for my addictive brain. Most people on here need something for their mental status. Whether it is suboxone, methadone or just going to meetings for their mental cure.
If you get off subs with nothing in place, I can almost guarantee you will be back on pain meds.

I guess I do not understand why you would want to get off suboxone especially since you are doing so well on it. I think you are being to hard on yourself to think you can white knuckle it sober. I think you might be miserable without something to help your addictive mind.

I understand if it was a money thing to get off subs or if you were going to jail and would be without. But, I don't understand why you need to be some sort of machine that doesn't need anything. We are addicts and from what I know, there is NO CURE for addiction. It is only treatable by suboxone or therapy/meetings.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:48 pm 
I lived in afghanistan for a year and was able to be fine sober in 2011 being surronding by poppy fields. I'm talking the absolute poppy capital of the freaking world. Seriously, and i was sober as a bird with little temptation. Heres the thing. I had experience prior to this with poppy pod tea. How the hell was i able to stay sober while being surrounded by the pods? Ya know why i was. I was woried about my life. I diddn't want hodgie blowing me up with IEDs. and i diddn't want to be buzzed and get my friends killed either. Heres the thing. You CAN stay sober as a bird. But you really have to put other people and your own life before your greedy needs to scratch the itch in the brain.

If i can stay sober with the desire to use in the poppy capital. How the fuck can't people here in not. And to use opiods forever? Jesus, clearly some people are more serious about "recovery" then others i guess. Your halfway at the finish line. Gotta finish the race though.... SOMEDAY..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Will,

I realize you are pretty passionate about getting off sub.......and thats totally cool.

I am 41 and have been using since age 13. It started with weed and alcohol in eighth grade and progressed to cocaine, methamphetamine, and opiates as I got older. I somehow had three kids along the way and got a college education. For me, using drugs is my normal. I have no fuckin idea how I would feel without drugs. But it must have been shitty because I keep going back.

So yeah, for you, getting off sub is brave. For me, staying on sub is brave. I now admit that yes, I may be a "lifer" as you call it. But its better than me bouncing around between different drugs and different mental hospitals.

Maybe you are over thinking all this......Just do a slow year taper and try not to worry about all the ways sub can fuc us up.
Good luck dude.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:58 am 
I am tapering as we post back and forth. This process hurts... bad. I'm not having fun tapering. But, i dunno how to explain it. I can look temptation right in the face and be able to conquer it. I can turn down some of the most delicious looking pods daily for a year straight. Why the hell can't i get back to that point? I KNOW this varies big time to each person. I just hope hope anyone who is just looking for a change in there life might see one or two valid points from my ramblings. I don't mind anyone being a lifer. I just really want to throw this out there to anyone who is at the crossroads as to where to turn to. I'm still at that crossroad trying to find my way to the END of it. I don't want to be in this situation anymore. I dread it. I feel like it's slightly holding me back from my full potential. I'm still me. Just a jaded me.

I am 41 and have been using since age 13. It started with weed and alcohol in eighth grade and progressed to cocaine, methamphetamine, and opiates as I got older. I somehow had three kids along the way and got a college education. For me, using drugs is my normal. I have no fuckin idea how I would feel without drugs. But it must have been shitty because I keep going back.

So yeah, for you, getting off sub is brave. For me, staying on sub is brave. I now admit that yes, I may be a "lifer" as you call it. But its better than me bouncing around between different drugs and different mental hospitals.

Thanks for sharing this. I realize the impact of using drugs for so many years has probably taken a serious toll on your mental state of mind. Have you ever considered maybe the drug use that keeps you normal, is the culprit as to why you end up in the mental ward? Ya know, alot of bipolar people tend to self medicate untill they are properly diagnosed and given the help they need. Using drugs to feel normal is certainly a good indicator that there maybe something deep down inside that needs to be addressed. For me it was watching my biological father beat my mother and take her by the hair and smash her jaw into a porcelain sink untill she lost and chipped a couple teeth. He was a alcoholic and meth user who was passed out drunk the day i was born into this world. My mom used to be a alcoholic aswell. But has cleaned up her act for a long time now. Most of my family has addiction issues of some sort. From the start i was dealt a bad hand. I suppose i started using again after the army to cope with the memories of some stuff that will change you. Now, it's whether or not you learn from this and change for the worst. (numbing the pain) or go the harder route and change for the better.

We all certainly have our own reasons for getting on drugs and self medicating. You could put gauze over a gunshot wound, stop the bleeding, and keep someone alive. That's a very important step. But eventually you have to take the bandaid off, clean out the wound, sow it up, and let it heal on it's own. Taking sub is the first step, very crucial to the process, but you can't just leave the same dirty nasty guaze in the wound. Basically i feel like i have to complete the rest of healing by slowly pulling that gauze out and letting my wound slowly but surely heal. The longer i leave that bloody dirty bandaid on it. The slower and slower it's going to take to heal. Plus i don't want to get a infection or anything (side effects of prolonged use)

Sorry for completely derailing this thread with my psychotic paranoid thinking. : / At least nobody has told me to go to opera or something yet. I respect everyone here who is trying to keep the harm of addiction to a minimum. This kinda discussion helps me broaden my horizions to what others feel about this particular subject.
Sorry for derailing this thread big time.


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 Post subject: RS
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:45 am 
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I for one saw Reindeer Spotting...It was and probably still is streaming on Netflix and if not it's certainly available via the mail. The behaviors of the addicts in that film are totallylly different from someone who is using buprenorphine sublingually at a steady dose daily; the only commonality is that they are both taking buprenorphine though one group is abusing it. Same as comparing a narcoleptic who takes Desoxyn daily to a speed freak who injects methamphetamine ,ultiple times daily. The addicts in RS are injecting, and from what I recall, fairly small amounts to equal around 8mg daily and that's using 8-16 hits daily. They're sharing used syringes. They're robbing people. Other opioids are not available there to the extent that they are in the US or most other places so buprenorphine is really one of the only widely abused opioids because it is one of the only opioids those folks could get their hands on. If I remember correctly in RS they get their hands on heroin and it's described as being a real rarity. Using RS as an anti-sub argument is quite a stretch in my opinion!

T

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 Post subject: Re: RS
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:33 pm 
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I came here to post that there is virtually no heroin in Finland

TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
Other opioids are not available there to the extent that they are in the US or most other places so buprenorphine is really one of the only widely abused opioids because it is one of the only opioids those folks could get their hands on. If I remember correctly in RS they get their hands on heroin and it's described as being a real rarity. Using RS as an anti-sub argument is quite a stretch in my opinion!

T


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:02 pm 
Using RS as an anti-sub argument is quite a stretch in my opinion!

lol, Clearly your rationalizing your own sub use. God forbid you have to think outside of the box for a minute and maybe open your mind to the very real possibilities of what's going on around you. Your thinking reminds me of someone who is in a room with everyone shooting smack. But here you are being the lone ranger with your chin and nose in the air, " I ONLY smoke my dope." "i'm so much better, i only take sub under the tongue therefore im above those nasty shooters."

Clearly the addicted mind likes to justify there use, by any means necessary. Your thinking is clearly no different. What kind of recovery is everyone working on if they keep telling themselves.. If i stop taking subs, my whole world will crumble. You guys wonder why NA meetings won't let you share and stuff. Seriously, if the show fits guys, wear it.

Thanks twincity for clearly doing what us addicts do best, rationalize! Even if 100's of people came here in one day and all posted very similar, negative effects of this drug. Your in that group who is still going to try to dismiss them as "it could never be the sub" Blah blah blah. I suppose whatever helps you get through the day is both where we are going to end up.

I clearly am not hear trying to sway people on this drug to get off or whatever, I really just want to help someone is at the crossroads of staying on drugs or getting off them. You clearly want to just stay on drugs. Good for you. I'll see you over at subsux in a few years when you finally get that opiod burnout feeling. I guess some of us are more serious then others then recovery. Beer instead of whiskey, that's clean and sober, eh?



Or as my tank commander use to tell me SSG C. "You keep playing pussy, you about to get fucked!" If you hear this line from him, he is pretty upeset and your pretty close to getting punched by a ex golden glove boxer.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Will,

Why don't you just jump off sub already and get it over with? I'm serious? It seems like you are 100% consumed with suboxone being the devil and, I'm guessing, have a lot of guilt and anger for being on it. Get off it.. it is possible! But, what you fail to see, time and time again, is that suboxone really helps some folks. Not you, clearly.... But, others get something positive from it, despite what you believe. I was one of those people and there are countless others here too. You can't just discredit someone's experiences on suboxone just because they are still on it. It's still very real.

Seriously, consider actually getting off sub rather than just bitching about it. Mmmkay? I'm here to help if you need some tips.


Also:
I for one feel bad for anyone that, for whatever reason, has to use sub to get high. It's just about the worst high ever, IMO.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:48 pm 
Is this place not for sharing your experiences with sub. good, bad, or indifferent, Can i not vent and actually help myself recover by developing a hatred and absolute conviction of the sub. This is what rock bottom is when quitting your DOC. Currently my DOC is suboxone.

This place is turning out to be pretty fucking bias. and when i say that, i mean it according to the dictionary

To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.

An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice

A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

AND MOST OF ALL- A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.

I can see that it is helping some people. I can AGREE that a small handful may need to be on it forever. THIS IS DIRECTED TO THOSE WHO ARE PLANNING ON GETTING CLEAN AND SOBER, AND STRUGGLING, SUCH AS MYSELF. It is a CRY for fucking helpful as i go through this interpersonal battle.

I suppose if my frustration was to anything else. I'd be supported. What is the problem of me bitching and moaning as you so put it? Thanks a fucking lot.. Don't like my bitching about my experience with this shit? Oh well, why do you think i put this in the freestyle thread? This is the exact bullshit i anticipated.

Fucking humanity. Not surprised at all. If anyones minds is made on on being on subs forever or whatever. That i give less then 1/8 of a goddamn. Fucking eat sub untill your shits is orange and your fucking head explodes from the massive headache this drug gives. Snort one, shoot one, put on under tongue, and put one up your bum. I DON'T CARE!!!! I'd like to chat with like minded people who are serious with living about drugs. And DON"T SHIT ON ME FOR HATING, HATING, HATING, FUCKING PAIN PILLS! How dare you.


Look at all the people and topics of people on here NOT doing well on suboxone. Seriously!? AGAIN, See definition of bias. You make me sound like i am the only one who is having a bad time with this stuff. WTF is wrong with this picture. Are you really this back asswords, ass backwords....?

I don't care if i get one positive or supporting reply. I hope those that are lurking and just read this realize there are people still out there that hope to be clean. Even if i tapered off and got away from sub. What makes you think i still wouldn't share my views on this. I'm noticing a TON of negative topics regarding subs lately. This is for THOSE people. NOT for those who are popping sub daily and whistling while skipping through a field of flowers in bupeland. lol...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Will,

I mean it in the nicest possible way. You'll feel so much better when you're off suboxone, for real. I can see that you are in turmoil and seriously having a hard time reconciling the position you're in. I get it. I felt that way too eventually.. so I got off. I have no problem with voicing displeasure or frustration towards opiate maintenance. I just don't think it's fair to point the finger and tell other members they're in denial, etc.. Why attempt to make others feel bad about where they're at? What help is that to anyone, including yourself?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:15 pm 
Thank you for coming back with a reasonable way to respond instead of the "i'm on team pro sub" i tried cold turkeying from 12mg's i was about to end up in the pysch ward over withdraws. I never had any other drug drug put me to that point. This shit terrorized me from that drop. In turn, gave me a huge wake up call. Believe me, i am doing this as best as i can. I am just impatient. And i am now the captain at my security job. So, i HAVE to maintain my level of performance to a certain point. While staying diligent to chipping off this crap. I can't possibility walk around as a armed guard while detoxing cold turkey at 12mg's of sub again. That would be pure insanity. People would wonder why i am sweating, crying tears, and going to the bathroom 4 times in 4 hours. I cannot fall apart like that again with this promotion. If i fuck my job up and i am dieing sick. Or rocking back and forth in the mental ward. The company i work for will lose this site i am running. If that happens. That takes food away from the employees i manage. I can't do that to my guys. Not because im some asshole who made a mistake of taking a narcotic that i should have allready detoxed off of long ago. Before i let it go for so many months. ::sigh::

This shit may have me by the throat. But i am doing what i can to loosen up the grip. Trust me, this is my plan. But why can't you just leave me alone if you don't like my bitching. If this is NO benefit to you. And everything im saying is so far away from anything you agree with. What makes you so inclined to post anything. Your telling me something so simple and broad, i tell myself i want off at leasts once a day, everyday at 7:00am. Thanks, i know i want off. If that's not clear since the start of the thread. My career and a few employees bread and butter depend on me not spazzing out on cold turkeying from a dose that's like 5 times worse then what i got on for.

Sub might be a blessing for some, for others who are strong willed, but simply fucked up a little. This shit is turning into a burden/curse. But i suppose it's easier to support only those who think they need a strong painkiller forever. Isn't that what got us in this mess. I guess it's easier to not support the rogue person. It's cool, to each there own. My point is not to tell anyone on this drug they are in denial. I am trying to provoke thought in like minded individuals. Which at this time, there are none responding. Fair enough.


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 Post subject: Serious Smerious
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Will, I wasn't trying to rationalize so much as give my opinions on the bits and pieces of the movie you chose to verbally share to a forum of people who likely didn't all see the movie. I, myself, saw it on a fluke. I'm not going to be a spoiler but the premise of the movie is not to follow around addicts on buprenorphine and monitor their progress so much as to document their descent as they are all dirty IV users, on the fringes of society, squatting, train-hopping, stealing, committing various other crimes, eating out of dumpsters to fuel their mission of staying 'well' and keeping a few steps of anyone who might be trying to track them down.....Homeless Junkies for all intents and purposes.

Are you implying that stable BMT patients are at a risk of turning into the active users described in RS? I honestly don't think you really know what you're talking about half the time and I felt the same way when I was tapering off methadone, so I'm not going to hold it against you. Please feel more than free to contribute to this forum; your comments don't even have to be pro-sub just try to be respectful. I understand that when titrating a degree of anger has to exist against the drug one is kicking and I'm guessing a site like http://subsux.com would let you in with open arms. I heard they are not accepting new members and maybe it would be beneficial to JUST read for awhile as you're detoxing. But at the same time, I'm guessing the creator of SubSux would make you an honorary member if you were interested.

T

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 Post subject: Re: RS
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:34 pm 
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glen bee wrote:
I came here to post that there is virtually no heroin in Finland.
[/quote]

At one point in the film they took a train to another area where they were able to find some heroin. But you are right about Finland NOT being known for having a lot of heroin available! A musician friend of mine playing in Finland got deathly sick and could only play for about 20 minutes of what should have been a typical 2.5 hour show because most of his methadone bottles leaked and no one, including the musician himself who did go out to try to cop could not find any H, just a handful of downers from a fan. Friggin' showbiz!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:52 pm 
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It becomes a drug of choice when injected by new people with low tolerance.... And then they just continue to use it to not get sick..........


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 Post subject: Re: Serious Smerious
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:38 pm 
TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
Are you implying that stable BMT patients are at a risk of turning into the active users described in RS? I honestly don't think you really know what you're talking about half the time and I felt the same way when I was tapering off methadone,

T


Really though? Yes i am implying that people on BMT are at risk of turning into active users. You realize how many people i knew that started on the sub tablets and after a couple months starting complaining of it not "working" anymore for them. Then they eventually snort em for awhile. Guess what happens next? experimenting with the pin after. From what i've seen, it's always the ones here where i live that have been going to the clinic for awhile. Claim to lose that honeymoon feeling, then start experimenting with snorting and maybe even trying bangin a couple of times. I personally know one of the locals who holds a sign as a job for 8 hours a day and he has been shooting tiny tiny amounts of sub for a while now. I don't know what im talking about? If i was saying this just to say it. Because i want to make subs look evil or some dumb crap. No, i'm saying what i've seen and what i know. I live in south florida. When all the pill mills got raided here. Guess what? a million sub clinics starting poppin up for clean up control with a swiftness. Is this news to people on subs that when people lose there honeymoon feeling on subs that some of them experiment with this junk and starting slipping right back to square one? I guess some states don't see it as nasty as florida. Hmm, i'll keep that in mind.

Hey if you were just sharing your opinion. Which i do realize now. I apologize if i came off a little disrespectful towards you. That is not my intention at all. I really am not trying to argue back and forth with anyone. Just like you, stating my opinion. I know for damn sure i am not the only one disliking this "treatment" Arguing accomplishes nothing when going back and forth. Just thorwing my opinion out there to those guys who may stumble on here and relate with me. I KNOW people are happy on there subs. Some people just stubborn and can't just accept this stuff in there lifes anymore.


Do any of you fear the possible medical issues in the long term from bupe due to it not being tested on humans in the long term as a daily maintenance drug, especially at the dosages suggested by doctors? I know a lot of us here know better than to take fuckin 16mg a day, but I'd be willing to bet there are 5 people on bupe who do as their doctor says for every 1 person who knows better


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:19 am 
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Will said, "Do any of you fear the possible medical issues in the long term from bupe due to it not being tested on humans in the long term as a daily maintenance drug, especially at the dosages suggested by doctors?"

Personally, I feared the long term health effects of gobbling up a shit ton of Tylenol that came with the tabs I was taking or the copious amounts of straight Oxy that I was taking WAY more than I worried about the effects of long term bupe. And the obvious OD risk (aka-death) that came with full agonists concerned me more than long term bupe use.

You seem to be looking for the perfect solution to opiate addiction. Unfortunately, there isn't one. Abstinence isn't a perfect solution, it comes with very high relapse rates. Suboxone isn't perfect, it's an opiate with side effects. Methadone isn't perfect, it's an opiate with side effects too. We opiate addicts don't have all that many choices. Some have made the choice to go on Suboxone, some Methadone, some Abstinence.....all choices should be respected, IMO.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:12 pm 
Romeo I always enjoy your feedback. By far you are one of the most unbiased people here. I enjoy how subtle you are, yet still get a very good point across. Thanks, you and a small handful of others input are comparable to finding a needle in the haystack. I will just ignore and deny ignorance from the others who are closed minded to the fact that there is still lots of info that is not yet out on this drug.

I suppose all negative side effects can be blamed on the prior abuse of other drugs. Lots of opiates cause down regulation to a certain extent. Well morphine probably the least harmful in this regard. It's just scary that people are not on guard in regard to this synthetic drug that they are using. I really think there is something very wrong with using this long term. I'm trying to let people know to at least be open to the very real chance of permanent side effects. This stuff is very unnatural.

Look, im done harping about sub and im done spending anymore of my time voicing my concern. For those that want to sub up forever, be my guest. I've done all i feel compelled to do. To those who read this and keep a open mind to the very real possibilities i've put out there. Thank you. Take it with a grain of salt. I am no doctor. Just someone who plays devils advocate and who notices the good and bad of everything.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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