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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Why do those of us on this forum have to talk so many people through induction after the docs take this supposed 8 hour course? Simply reading the prescribing information gives all the steps up to day 3. Yet these docs send people home with scripts, and some don't even tell them they need to be in withdrawal before starting the medication. It blows my mind. Who are these people and how the hell did they get certified to prescribe Suboxone?

Also, how can a doctor pick and choose what conditions s/he will take insurance for? If for example a doctor said, I don't take insurance for AIDS patients, wouldn't that be discrimination? So why is it OK for addicts?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:15 pm 
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[font=Century Gothic]Look guys I totally get the anger and furiousness about the prices that addicts are being charged and agree that some doctors are indeed unethical. However I must first say, I find it absolutely unnecessary to make any derogatory comments toward the Doctor that runs this site. He is a very intelligent compassionate man, who cares about his patients and the posters on this site, if he didn't you wouldn't have a site to rant and rave and throw a hissy fit on, so maybe you guys should cool it with bashing the Subox Doc especially since he has done nothing wrong to you or anyone else for that matter, and you really have no idea what his views are about good or bad sub docs and whether or not their being unethical, if you have a question about how he feels why don't you post THAT, or PM him, for all you know he may be just as furious about the treatment of addicts by unethical sub docs and he may be writing a article in the medical journals or JEMS magazine, instead of just spewing venom at anyone within a 10mile radius of you. And before you decide to spew venom in my direction, i warn you tread lightly, I am not one of the ones who "doesn't understand" the financial burden bestowed upon us by Sub docs fees or RB companies, i pay close to 700.00 a month OOP for my prescriptions, and still have to pay 150.00 per visit OOP every 2 weeks because my sub doc doesn't accept insurance either, so i understand fully the financial burden trying to live a sober life puts on the average person without insurance. But honestly try to look back at how much money you spent /month on your DOC? how about bail/bond money when or if you have spent time in jail? court fees? rehab/treatment facilities? All i am saying is yes you are all correct it is ridiculous the prices that the average Joe has to pay in order to stay clean and live a sober life, but how much would a funeral cost if you OD'd on your DOC. Ask yourself is it worth it? To me i would pay anything and do anything asked of me to regain and enjoy "living" my life again instead of merely existing through it! And im not at all saying that the situation that MOST of us are in is not something that should cause anger, however is the amount of anger and animosity you are constantly carrying around with you helping you in anyway? is it helping you recover? is it helping you live your life fully as if today is the only day you get? because tomorrow is not guaranteed to anyone. So as i said your anger is understood however now you need to realize and understand how much damage to you health and your recover carrying around all of this anger and hatred all of the time is doing. If it bothers you that much write a letter to your local newspaper or your Sub Drs peer review board, if you dont want to do that then for your own health and recovery you have to let this go, and stop causing so much stress and anxiety to your body over this, not to mention how much carrying this anger and stress around on a daily basis is putting you at a seriously high risk for a relapse. Is it truly worth ruining all that you've worked so hard to achieve? I am sorry is i pissed anyone off or bit their asses by writing this, i just see how much anger and animosity and stress is going on on this forum, and i know just what price anger and stress can cost someone in recovery because Ive been there, and stress and constant anger can put you in a really bad place and could cause you to relapse in order to numb the feelings. Thats what most if not all of us did to get us to the fresh hell we've found ourselves in now![/font]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:36 am 
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Bash the doctor who started this site?

Let's not write in eye blinding red!

Freaking idiot!

MysteriVamp wrote:
[font=Century Gothic]Look guys I totally get the anger and furiousness about the prices that addicts are being charged and agree that some doctors are indeed unethical. However I must first say, I find it absolutely unnecessary to make any derogatory comments toward the Doctor that runs this site. He is a very intelligent compassionate man, who cares about his patients and the posters on this site, if he didn't you wouldn't have a site to rant and rave and throw a hissy fit on, so maybe you guys should cool it with bashing the Subox Doc especially since he has done nothing wrong to you or anyone else for that matter, and you really have no idea what his views are about good or bad sub docs and whether or not their being unethical, if you have a question about how he feels why don't you post THAT, or PM him, for all you know he may be just as furious about the treatment of addicts by unethical sub docs and he may be writing a article in the medical journals or JEMS magazine, instead of just spewing venom at anyone within a 10mile radius of you. And before you decide to spew venom in my direction, i warn you tread lightly, I am not one of the ones who "doesn't understand" the financial burden bestowed upon us by Sub docs fees or RB companies, i pay close to 700.00 a month OOP for my prescriptions, and still have to pay 150.00 per visit OOP every 2 weeks because my sub doc doesn't accept insurance either, so i understand fully the financial burden trying to live a sober life puts on the average person without insurance. But honestly try to look back at how much money you spent /month on your DOC? how about bail/bond money when or if you have spent time in jail? court fees? rehab/treatment facilities? All i am saying is yes you are all correct it is ridiculous the prices that the average Joe has to pay in order to stay clean and live a sober life, but how much would a funeral cost if you OD'd on your DOC. Ask yourself is it worth it? To me i would pay anything and do anything asked of me to regain and enjoy "living" my life again instead of merely existing through it! And im not at all saying that the situation that MOST of us are in is not something that should cause anger, however is the amount of anger and animosity you are constantly carrying around with you helping you in anyway? is it helping you recover? is it helping you live your life fully as if today is the only day you get? because tomorrow is not guaranteed to anyone. So as i said your anger is understood however now you need to realize and understand how much damage to you health and your recover carrying around all of this anger and hatred all of the time is doing. If it bothers you that much write a letter to your local newspaper or your Sub Drs peer review board, if you dont want to do that then for your own health and recovery you have to let this go, and stop causing so much stress and anxiety to your body over this, not to mention how much carrying this anger and stress around on a daily basis is putting you at a seriously high risk for a relapse. Is it truly worth ruining all that you've worked so hard to achieve? I am sorry is i pissed anyone off or bit their asses by writing this, i just see how much anger and animosity and stress is going on on this forum, and i know just what price anger and stress can cost someone in recovery because Ive been there, and stress and constant anger can put you in a really bad place and could cause you to relapse in order to numb the feelings. Thats what most if not all of us did to get us to the fresh hell we've found ourselves in now![/font]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:04 am 
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MysteriVamp, I do agree with part of what you are saying. I've absolutely seen some horrible behavior on the part of Suboxone doctors, ranging from ridiculous carelessness with prescribing Sub to having a shameful lack of knowledge about a med they are very willing to prescribe to abusing the ability to make tons of money by prescribing Sub. However, I do realize that anger is not helpful. I've struggled with it. I don't want to carry around anger. Anger needs to be turned into action. That's why I get on here. That's why I've put so much effort into trying to educate my own doctors. I've written for various blogs. I'm trying to turn anger into action and lose the anger in the process. We all need to do that. We have to do whatever we can. I'm absolutely positive, at this point, that there is something wrong with this system, but I don't hate Suboxone or any doctor. It's the system itself that needs to be changed, and I'm not saying I know how exactly to change it. I'm just acknowledging there's a problem, and the only reason it matters it that I do truly care about the people on here and not on here who have been or will be negatively impacted by Suboxone being incorrectly prescribed. That is not hate. That is decency and compassion.

I've also tried to find another doctors, and I'm still trying to find another doctor. It's an ongoing thing. It's not as easy and people would make it seem.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:41 am 
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I can share about my sub doc... I think a pure quack, only in it for the money and could give a rats ass about his clients. He will not accept ins but sure did make the claim after I spent out of pocket 750 for a 1/2 "initial" appointment. He wrote the script and off he went. Little instuction, just said stick it under my tongue for at least 20 min. Did take my blood presseure the first visit but never did after that. Did not get a history on me, did not ask if I was on other medication.. pure quack. I was desparate when I went to him and wasnt thinking straight at all. I was in WD when I arrived at the office as he ask me to be.. couldnt even ask questions in the shape I was in.
I later found this guy can not work in any nearby hospital... no hospital rights. In fact in a 5 mile radious I have 7 md that do nothing but perscribe either sub/dope or both. They must of got together to decide what they wll charge because they are the same. WEll.. expect for the guy who does not perscribe sub but will write script for about any dope you ask.

The worse story I have heard so far was from a women.. who's quack wanted to do pelvic exam for her addiction???? NOw this is really sad but she feels like if she start crap that she will loose the sub and benzo that she is addicted too. He is rather cheap ...only 125 for monthly visits. The best story I have heard is the guy who only see his sub MD once every 6 mo. He gets enough sub for 6 mo's. Now this sounds right to me.. why monthly visits other then to charge?

I feel so lucky I dont have to deal with the quacks any longer. I am sure there are some out there that do give a rats ass.. I have yet to meet one or have I been told face to face about one worth speaking of. I think since most will only spend 3-5 mins with you on follow up visits... why not write scripts for a few months at least?

I do think this needs to be discussed for the newbi's. they need to be aware there are many scumbags out there and only interested in money. They should be encourged to shop for thier MD's, after all they work for us not the other way around. I think more should complaint to Reckett and what ever the goveren board is for md's. I did complaint to Reckett about my quack but they didnt care... they only cared that the script was written. I know the MD's stills have that "good ole boy" mentality and they stick together and little is done about the screw ups.. that makes sites like this even more useful and important to let the newbe person know what the norm is....maybe out of this he/she will get better care from who he chooses to treat him. What is acceptable and what is not.

My vote is to WRITE ON. I do wish we could name names also.....I dont fear any retalitaion from my quack.. I think he is actually facing charges as I write this but still has his doors open.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:35 am 
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Hey eagleslanding - let's keep it civil. There's no need to resort to name calling.

It's one thing to express an opinion about something, it's another thing completely to resort to personal attacks.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:19 pm 
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I can't believe it took so long for somebody to take up for subox doc. He knows how other docs charge outrageous fees. I don't believe one could find a better doc for treatment or psychiatry.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:23 pm 
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I can't believe it took so long for somebody to take up for subox doc. He knows how other docs charge outrageous fees. I don't believe one could find a better doc for treatment or psychiatry.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:43 pm 
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I guess I got lucky. I got a doc that takes my insurance for which I pay a $25.00 copay for visits every other monthmy co pay for the meds is $35.00. For 60 8/2 tablets. My doctor is a rare one I guess from what I've been reading. I've been reading for quite some time, never quite ready to post anything. I'll introduce myself soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:16 pm 
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I am also new to the forum, but have been reading for a while and feel lucky I had a great doc. Here is my understanding of why some docs do not allow insurance billing: Docs who prescribe Suboxone are supposed to take a class and past a test to be legally allowed to prescribe Suboxone, but as with any potentially profitable situation, many docs who are not certified are prescribing, not billing insurance where they likely would not receive reimbursement, and getting away with it. In my area, there has started to be a crack down on docs who are doing this. For a long time pharmacists did not rat out the unqualified docs because they were making money on the subscriptions and in some cases might not have been aware of the requirements for Suboxone. The whole "pain management" sector in healthcare is a cash cow. I have seen some pain clinics which prescribe both pain meds and Suboxone shut down in my area due to overprescibing and patient overdoses and then you have all these desperate people looking for options. If a doc tells you they won't bill insurance, I would look elsewhere. I know it is tough because not an adequate number of docs are certified, so the scammer docs take advantage of desperate people. do your research.
also, regarding the cost, hopefully everyone knows there are coupons you can find online to help with the cost of Suboxone.
thankfully because I asked my primary MD, who I trust completely, to refer me to a Sub doc so I had a good experience.
it is so sad to read about all those that were taken advantage of.
Monkey


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:12 pm 
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How to tell if your doctor is a crook-

1) Only accepts cash as payment
2)when you arrive for appt. a 60 minute news crew is in his office
3) It costs more to see him than to purchase DOC
4)Changes the name of his practice every other month
5)Office is protected by razor wire and dobermans after hours
6)when you are in his office a police scanner is the background music

feel free to add your own


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 Post subject: So Good
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Oh, that was good. So very good. I'm laughing too hard to think of any more.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:06 am 
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Hi, this is my first post so bare with me. I didnt come here to argue or dis anyones elses views, just to tell my experience, and how I view it. I am currently on Suboxone and have been on and off for about 2 yrs, due to my inability to pay. I totally understand Dr.s have to make money, but they dont have to charge these outlandish prices. I mean come on this is an epidemic we're facing due to this terrible drug. Everybody does not have that kind of money to spare. I mean my Dr is purely ridiculous . Charging $75 for not calling 24 hours in advance for missed app? Their still getting the same amount of what my insurance pays even if Im not there. They test me every 2 weeks and my insurance will not pay for that because it is NOT necessary. Then all the groups 4x a months at $50 . Plus the cost of scripts. I mean I cant always give 24 hrs notice, but then its up to their descretion. Me as a fulltime Mom of 2, one that is Autistic, I dont have all that money to pay upfront, which they want when you come to the next time. I have a family to take care of. My son has to go out of town multiple times a months, copays for him. Im still in turmoil being clean, its not right. When I dont get my meds , my lively hood is gone. I cant function. I just dont know what gives these Dr.s the right to not be reasonable and understanding? I mean when they got their lisence to be a Dr. they took an oath, to be compassionate, understanding, and to not turn anyone away for their inablility to pay. Some of us depend on them. But they dont care. Their not caring about the patient, but the almighty dollar. I think that Suboxone programs should be available to anyone, no matter how much they can afford to pay, how much money they make. I mean alot of people are still using because they cant afford to b clean, or get the help they want and truely deserve,everybody deserves help, thats what the government needs to realize. Then , we'll quit seeing people dying of ODs and other health problems that stem from it. I just needed to get that off my chest, thanks to everyone who reads.[font=Arial Black] [/font]


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 Post subject: OMG!!! So true,lmao
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:08 am 
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That was true...That is one hot mess!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:43 am 
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I'd say that's the problem with the US health care system being set up as a for-profit system.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:21 am 
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Despite this being an 'older' thread I still find it quite relevant today. My experience with my sub doctor is not much different from others listed on this site.

Initial visit was $250 which was not covered by insurance....the doctor gave out a lengthy explanation of why his charges were not covered....but we all know that its BS...these forms I was given were to cover his butt....but let's face it, he can charge what he wants.

During my first visit he did offer to refund the fee if I chose not to do the program....also since I was not local he gave me plenty of sub to start and did not require I come back in 30 days etc...he took his time with me and answered all my questions...never making me feel I had to rush out the door. Iin fact we even had a discussion about a fellow sub doc across the street who charged 500 (i confirmed this prior to visiting my doc) per visit and had the opinion that hey they were getting the money for their drugs before so why not for treatment....so yes even the doctors understand what their fellow doctors are doing....sad but true.

In short i feel that yes these charges are exhorbenant..but you do have a choice...you can call around and find a doctor who charges a more reasonable fee.and if necessary travel a ton of miles to get there....you probably did at times during your addiction....these charges are not fair or sometimes even ethical...but in the end you need to do what it takes to get better.

And for the record yes I did get my money's worth and when you consider a typical office visit (that is covered by my insurance) to my regular doctor is over 100 dollars...and there I am always rushed out the door....and never given the time I need.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:07 am 
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To be completely honest. blunt, and frank, I got myself into this situation of being a drug addict. I'm willing to wager that most people on this forum can say the same, aside from those who got hooked because of long-term pain management. No one forced me to get addicted to Opiodes, I made that mistake all by myself, and unfortunately, I now have to pay the consequences of that. I can either go on an expensive drug-maintenance program, get regular addiction therapy, or stop on my own.

I chose the more luxurious route, but that wasn't my only option so I can't complain about the prices. This is a weird and possibly inaccurate and ridiculous analogy, but it's kind of like buying a car. I have to get to work and back, get to the store and back, ect. I can either walk, ride bike, or buy a car. Going on Suboxone is kind of like buying a car in that respect, and unfortunatly some people are going to be selling the same exact care for very different prices, you can either bite the bullet and buy a car at a more expensive price for the sake of convenience, you can shop around for a cheaper car, or you can just say fuck it and walk to your destination, but either way that destination has to be reached.

Some doctors take it too far and charge outrageous prices just because they can, and you can compare this to an average drug dealer who will do the same. It's very unfortunate. Luckily mine doesn't do that, her prices I would consider fair and she is knowledgeable about Suboxone and addiction.

That being said, I can't say I blame the doctors all that much. You don't HAVE to go on Suboxone. You can just go on regular addiction therapy and it would be miles cheaper. Suboxone is really a luxury. Luckily based on my current income and the doctors I have access to I can afford it, at least for now. It's too bad a lot of doctors will take advantage of drug addicts, but such is life, and it's never going to change, it just is what it is. As far as not accepting insurance goes, I can't blame them at all. Dealing with insurance just as a patient is a fucking nightmare, and I can't imagine how much of a pain it is on the other end.

To compare Suboxone maintenance to diabetes or cancer, I'm sorry, but that's wildly inaccurate and insane logic. A diabetes patient can't simply say "Okay, I'm just going to tough out the next month or so and eventually my diabetes will be gone and I won't have to deal with this shit anymore." It sucks if you can't find a local affordable doc, but it is what it is. You don't NEED Suboxone to overcome drug addiction, you just don't, it's a luxury.

The point I guess I'm trying to make, is that Suboxone, at least in my mind, is a luxury, and I'm lucky it's even an option in the first place. And also, all healthcare really is expensive. Even with insurance just to go to a regular doctor visit is $200 and that's after my insurance which isn't bad insurance. If you don't have insurance and you need to go to the dentist, good luck with that because they won't do a damn thing at all until you put some cash down for them and it's not cheap.

Edit: This post is kind of jumbled up because I edited it and re-worded a lot of it after the fact.

Also, I just read the post a couple posts up from this one, saying how Suboxone should basically be free/cost reduced to everyone who wants it. That's just not possible. Who's going to pay for it? Just because you're not paying for it doesn't mean it isn't being paid for. Let me guess, a tax subsidy? No thanks, I pay enough taxes as it is and if I ever overcome my drug addiction, frankly, I don't want to be paying for everyone else's through my taxes. And if not vicariously, the only other reasonable and realistic outcome is that everyone who pays for it is just going to be reamed even harder and have to pay prices that would make the current ones look like a 50% off sale.

PS: I'm not condoning price gouging or saying it's right, but it is what it is. Being ripped off is basically just a part of the current American lifestyle.


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 Post subject: unethical docs
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:05 pm 
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This post is why I just joined this forum. My prescribing Doc & I had a confrontation re: methadone about 3 years before I started Suboxone therapy. Unfortunately my referral to a Suboxone Doc sent me back to him. ur "professional" relationship has been chilly, uncomfortable and lacking in his support & encouragement of my attempts to taper down and discontinue the Sub.

I have some interesting stories about some unethical & unprofessional behaviors.....but maybe not anything that he can be legally held accountable for. I am frustrated by his practices for myself but more so when considering other recovering addicts who have fallen prey to his practices.

With whom can I discuss some disconcerting issues that I have experienced?


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:30 pm 
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This is why I am glad that I have a good doctor. He doesnt write Subutex BUT he is now allowing me to come every other month which cuts my costs by QUITE A CHUNK. These services are never going to free, people who have cancer dont get free treatment or aids or diabetics whatever the case may be..... They ALL have to pay for their treatment, whether its through insurance and co pays or out of pocket. My father didnt take a cancer policy through work and he gets cancer because of his work and still had to pay around 20 percent of the costs. Ok, that sounds like a small amount but when he shows me one of his doctor bills and his portion is around 14,000.....that is still huge for 20 percent...But what do you do? Do you pay and live? Do you refuse and die? You make the choice whether you pay for this treatment or not, yes we all wish that it was cheaper. We all want it to be under a 100 for the visit (for those out of pocket people like myself) and the medicine on the 4 dollar list...but until it is more understood like other illnesses and diseases, we can want in one hand and shit in the other to see which fills up first....Right now I am happy that I am paying 300 every other month which averages to 150 a month for the visits with the nicest staff that you will ever meet in your life. They all know me as the wiild hair colored girl and if I walked in there with blonde hair, they would probably think that I was sick. I pay around 150 a month for the medicine, depending on how much I take. I do hang around 8mg a day which is plenty for me, somedays I might forget to take a 2mg piece and only get 6mg. Some days and I am sure that we have ALL had these, when you forgot how much you took and take a extra 2mg piece. I have the memory of an old woman, I can barely remember to breathe these days LOL.
I am just happy that I have a good doctor and the staff all is nice, dont matter if I need to reschedule there are no outrageous fees. He has explained to me that I have a life and there is no reasoning behind charging me through the nose for a missed appointment. I absolutely hate the drive to my doctors office because it is a hour away, but for the treatment that I receive and the fact that he is a no bullshit doctor I love the place. If you are having a earache, he will check to see if its irritated and if you need antibiotics he will write them so I dont have to pay two doctors. There is a doctor in my town which is five minutes away and accepts insurance, BUT there is a year waiting list and from what I hear he is like my first doctor a revolving door handing out prescriptions. I like that I have someone that I can speak to about what is going on, gives me goals to set and reach. I wish that the ones who have terrible doctors could go to mine, i was there once and had a awful place to go to, I know how it feels. I came crying out of my old office every month, they always made me feel like I wasnt worth a dime.
If there are any KY people out there needing a doctor, call Dr Tran in lexington Ky. You will not be dissapointed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:25 pm 
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ive had a grimey doctor who only took cash and new nothing about suboxone (her office was a womans care place, she was a gynecologist, dont understand how the hell she had the right to be in charge of 100 peoples addiction medication) but number 5 & 6 are crazy on your list. Now I have a great doctor, but luckily i am in charge of the dose i am on, i feel like he over prescribes to people that don't need that much but what can you do that is most doctors


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