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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:06 pm 
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[Note- I split this topic off from the "Dust" thread because I think it is an important conversation with lots of good info & it was just kinda buried there at the end of Libra's thread & it was also off topic. - DoAQ]

Well about the ED docs and suboxone and I am quite sure they probably know I take suboxone because since starting sub I always have pin prick pupils. I hate that side effect. Anyway they were talking about all the Drug Seeking Behavior they dealt with the night before and how someone walked off with the IV machine that was dosing their medication. I said I heard about this new drug alot of people have been taking to get off opiates called......subaxa.....trying to be stupid (which is not too hard). Then it was on.

Believe it or not they (just these two) consider us as if we are methadone abusers. Bottom line junkies....I obviously learned a valuable lesson as they said anyone that doesn't tell the Triage nurse they are on suboxone are drug seeking....period. I said I thought people that take that medicine do not get high but just stops the cravings. They basically said they beleive most are diverting or selling their suboxone for $20 to $25 or snorting their pills. They said something about they can tell someone is a junkie by looking at their skin....I didn't get all that I was just trying not to look at my skin. They (again these two) absolutely hate people on methadone and have a very low opinion of them. I didn't push too hard but I had a ton of questions but they went on about how they can allow them to sit there and cry for 4 hours and no matter what they thought- they were going home with IB 800mg. I was amazed to get a look into the world on the other side of the curtain. I am sure they get alot....hell I told enough lies to get opiates. I think based on that conversation I will be honest if I ever have to go to the ED. But hearing this really makes me want to consider tapering down and off......Alot more was said but this was the jest of the conversation.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:54 am 
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Wow...Just, Wow. What a conversation to take part in, ReRaise. No wonder it makes you want to taper down and off! To be completely honest, because I take sub for pain, I've avoided thinking about things like this, because frankly it is disturbing. I have not experienced much in the way of that kind of judgment, but obviously I'm not immune to it. I hope to hell I don't experience it, but I have to wonder what the chances are that I will. Did being part of that conversation make you uncomfortable? I think I would have been very uncomfortable. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. It's helpful to know what SOME people (I hope to hell it's only SOME people) think of us.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:02 am 
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The level of misunderstanding about suboxone is quite sad. My mom has been a nurse for almost 30 years now. She worked in the "ED" for a very long time and since I have been on sub, she has worked in a low income clinic in one town and then moved to this poverty stricken town and works in a family clinic there.

When I finally had the balls to tell her I was on sub and why and what the sub does to me (doesn't do rather), she was very surprised. She, and her colleagues, had all assumed it was just like methadone. The last clinic she worked in didn't believe in sub at all unless a woman was pregnant. Ultimately, she was rather surprised that it hadn't caught on a little better in the medical community but she believes it to be a positive alternative to dying these days or otherwise ruining your entire life.

It took me a while to convince her and show her enough research and information so that she wasn't scared of it any longer. I think she had thought of it like an evil drug and was terrified that I was on it. Now days, she isn't.

Dr. Junig has noted that RB hasn't done much to educate the medical community regarding this drug and they haven't done much to change the reputation of suboxone. I believe this is part of the reason they may not like him very much. But if RB isn't going to do it, then who will? Seriously?

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:45 am 
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I feel as though I could write for days and days about these two topics. Perhaps you have to work in the ED or ER or whatever in order to really experience what they see on a daily basis. It really is amazing how many people come to the ED on a daily basis trying to get pain medication. I could tell you story after story after story and I only worked in the ED on a limited basis. This is a daily issue for them all across America. Unfortunately, this makes many docs really jaded about the whole thing and I'm sure causes them to make wrong judgments. I have no doubt in my mind that they have given drugs to drug seekers that fooled them and they had no clue and I also have no doubt that they have withheld drugs from patients who were truly in pain but whom they thought were drug seeking. So many of the drug seekers do the same things over and over that if anyone should unwittingly go to the ED and say one of these phrases or have one of these problems, they get falsely labeled. Back pain, toothaches, and headaches. Being from out of town, don't have a doctor, allergic to pretty much anything other than opiates, and on it goes. They even joke about patients asking for "the drug that starts with a D" - meaning either Dilaudid or Demerol. In fact ReRaise when you did the Suboxone miss-pronouncing thing, they may have actually picked up on that.

If nothing else, readers may be able to see why they really shoot themselves in the foot by not being honest and later the medical staffing figuring it out on their own. ReRaise, you had the issue yourself at the clinic when you didn't tell them about the Suboxone and they found out. I'm sure you now see that from the other side. The woman here that had the abscess tooth. After reading ReRaise's story, you can again see how she was dead in the water as soon as they found out about the Suboxone that she failed to tell them about. In her case I’m sure they thought they caught a drug seeker – and they were wrong! But when she failed to disclose she was on Sub, they thought they “caught” her.

What I see as perhaps the most upsetting is that the whole "fight" with the drug seekers has turned the whole thing into one big game - a very personal game. So many doctors seem as competitive about this as the two foot ball teams that meet on Sunday afternoon. It really is a big deal for them. They "get off" when they "bust" a drug seeker. It really becomes a personal battle for them to never get taken by a seeker. And you see the result of that. I have spoken with many doctors about this exact topic. These two docs are not unique. Thankfully, this has not spilled much into EMS. Drug seekers rarely call an ambulance to get drugs. But I can assure you that as I type this tens of thousands of patients are sitting in ERs across the United States right now trying to get a script for opiates. These days, to far too many docs, you are a drug seeker until proven otherwise.

Then there is the whole misunderstanding about Suboxone. Obviously you can't tell us about the entire conversation but at least "thankfully" I get the feeling that methadone is still higher on their "shit list" than Sub is. In fact, I got the feeling that if you come in and tell them you are on Sub, they may not have nearly as much of an issue with that. I also really do think that it has a lot more to do with the person than many want to admit. By that, I really do think it has a lot to do with how you look, how you dress, how you speak, what you do for a living, how you act, etc. If we have anything going for us, it's the fact that drug abuse within the medical community is just as high if not higher than average. Nurses are very often addicted. I personally know multiple physicians who are.

Just like there is so much to know and learn about in "our world" of being on Suboxone and treating our addiction, the same goes for the medical community. I guess if there is anything that seems to transverse across all lines, it's the need for education - a whole lot of education. Drug addiction is just simply not well understood by the masses and treatment with Suboxone is even less understood. But now, I'm telling everyone something that you already know.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:52 pm 
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donh wrote:
Just like there is so much to know and learn about in "our world" of being on Suboxone and treating our addiction, the same goes for the medical community. I guess if there is anything that seems to transverse across all lines, it's the need for education - a whole lot of education. Drug addiction is just simply not well understood by the masses and treatment with Suboxone is even less understood. But now, I'm telling everyone something that you already know.


While I get that it must be extremely obnoxious for MD's to have to deal with drug-seeking patients in the ER; I am also aware that the disease model of addiction has been around for a while and that having gone through medical school, doctors should be fucking aware that that is what addicts do - they have a compulsive need to get high. Maybe the "masses" don't understand addiction, but doctors - especially ones who work in a specialty where they will very likely encounter addicts on a regular basis - should have more than a cursory understanding of the problem.

What I do notice is that none of the stories of people being accused of drug-seeking or denied pain medication ever seem to end with the patient being offered some kind of intervention or referral to counseling/screening/treatment for the suspected problem of addiction. The fact that the doctor suspects that this person is suffering from the disease of addiction is not addressed - the addict is just shamed, stigmatized and left untreated, thus perpetuating the problem. And to that I say SHAME on those doctors. Seriously. There is just no excuse.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:09 pm 
I agree with DOQ and would even go one step further. I think that being on Suboxone is even more frowned upon than being an active addict. I don't know why, but the minute you say (or they find out) that you're on Sub they automatically assume that you're a drug seeking piece of shit.

This galls me because by being on Sub you have:
1. Admitted you are an addict
2. Sought treatment
3. Taken a medication that BLOCKS the effect of other opiates

But for some reason that defies logic, almost every ED (or surgery, or childbirth) story on here where the patient was known to be on Sub, the patient either had pain medication witheld, medication was given in LESS than standard doses and/or meds were dished up with a side order of contempt.

I've been to the ED twice since i've been on Sub, and did not disclose either time, although when i was in the accident the cop took my liscence out of my pocketbook and failed to see the med alert card i had in there about Sub (so i guess i know how effective that would have been if i'd been usconscious). Donh is probably right that if you don't disclose and they find out it's even worse because now you're a liar in addition to being a lowlife junke, but i for one am willing to take my chances.

And DOQ is right, a doctor will let someone sit in an ED waiting room crying for 4 hours and not even take 2 minutes to write them a referral for addiction treatment? I guess a doc like that does not accept the disease model of addiction, and instead considers it a moral failing. Shame on them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:55 pm 
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DOQ and Lilly make very good points. I have to agree. Addiction is a medical problem and these doctors should be taught how to identify it, and instead of just denying the narcotics, they should be growing the balls to say to the person, "I may be wrong, but you have exhibited several behaviors that make me question whether or not you may actually be drug seeking. The behaviors are.....". Allow the person to get angry, make excuses, or do whatever.

I will say there were times when I was drug seeking, for legitimate issues, because my condition doesn't have a cure and there is nothing I can do about it aside from multiple surgeries but those are expensive and they don't work well or for very long. I have a condition you can see. It isn't mysterious unverifiable pain. It is CLEARLY painful. HOWEVER, it is also a condition which progresses very quickly and there were times when I couldn't get into my primary doctor and would have to go to the ER. The problem is, I would go in BEFORE it progressed too badly because often that would be in the middle of the night, or I might have plans to do something, or because once it gets too bad, I have a hard time driving myself to the ER (sorry....ED) and am too uncomfortable waiting there like that. These are all factors they don't consider because they have no idea what it is like to live in my shoes with this condition. I will do anything and everything I can to prevent it from interfering in my life. It is bad enough I live in pain almost every day of my life, which also led to this nasty addiction, and has caused massive disfigurment, but on top of it, the "ED" docs want me to further complicate things by coming in at the most inconveninent times so I don't look like a drug addict. Had any one of them who was rude to me thinking I was drug seeking ever had enough respect or the balls to ask about it as indicated above, they would have learned a whole lot more about this medical condition (rare disease) and could have been far more effective as a physician. But they have nothing to learn from their patients now do they?

I'm just saying, in my case, had I been given the opportunity, they would have realized it wasn't drug seeking behind it. If I was drug seeking, my behavior would be far different.

I have always thought they should make posters and put them up in the "ED" department that says something like "Think you might be dependent on your pain meds? The ED can help you and there are options to help you stop. Then have it list things like the fact that they can do comfort meds, counseling referral, AND there ought to be some mention of medications to stop withdrawal. Ask the doctor or nurse more about these options if you are interested in learning more about your options". Or something to that effect. There are too many addicts who don't even know what their options are and they are afraid to ask.

One more quick story and then I will go away......in the field I work in I meet with doctor's quite a bit. I recall one particular instance where we caught an injured worker on video engaging in all kinds of behaviors he was claiming to his doctor he couldn't do. The doc asked me to send him the video via e-mail and we began exchanging correspondence about this. The poor doctor felt SO used by this guy because he had given the patient the benefit of the doubt regarding this odd set of ongoing pain symptoms and thought there could very well be something really wrong causing this pain. So he prescribed overwhelmingly large amounts of narcotics to him for a long time. When he saw this video he wrote to me and told me he felt horrible because either he was contributing to this man's addiction or he was diverting. He was embarassed that he didn't catch on quicker. This doctor was so humbled by this experience and I felt REALLY bad for him. But because of his own embarassment and feeling used and scammed, he didn't want to see this patient ever again. In fact he released him in full to the job of injury (which really I don't think the guy could physically do as there was something wrong with him.....just not that much wrong with him) and he discharged the guy via letter. That was it.

Of course then I got stuck with this patient calling me to find out what was going on because the Dr. office wouldn't talk to him and he just cried and cried and cried on the phone trying to get ME to help fix it. Not that I didn't feel for the guy as I was in active addiction myself back then but I also got a good look at how pathetic the behavior is too.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:16 am 
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Jackcrack - I think your idea about the posters in the ER waiting room is great. Such a small thing, yet it could save lives.

My health insurance is through a cooperative, and they are pretty proactive about patient care. About 10 years ago when I first started going to this place, they started a program where they would ask at every visit if you were a smoker, and if you were they would point you towards resources to help you quit. Again, simple but potentially life saving. In fact, I know that this program helped motivate me to quit smoking.

One of my teachers (in the chemical dependency counseling program I'm in) told us about a research study she participated in when she was getting her MSW. The point of the study was basically to see if giving patients in the ER access to a kind of "mini-intervention" for drug or alcohol issues would be an effective program.

She and a couple of other social-work grad students would take shifts in the ED. If a patient came in and for whatever reason the doctor thought there might be an issue with drugs or alcohol, she would be called over to give them a 15 minute interview to help identify any chemical dependency problems that were happening. Then the patient would be given a referral to whatever resources were appropriate. I think she said that they found that upward of 70% of the patients they interviewed qualified for a referral, and a significant amount of them actually accessed some of the resources offered.

Think about it - in the ED you have people coming in for car or household accidents that often involve alcohol. You have domestic violence victims, a situation where drugs and alcohol are commonly involved. You have heroin addicts coming in with infections, you have "drug seekers, and who knows what else. She said it was such a valuable opportunity to access people who might never come in for chemical dependency treatment on their own.

When the study was done and the grant ran out, despite the resounding sucess of the program, they were unable to secure funding to continue it. She said right out that part of the problem was political - the establishment still has a real ideological problem with "harm reduction" programs. She even said that she got in hot water for referring to the program as harm reduction - she was told to use the term "reducing risk."

It really is just tragic, because for a fraction of the money we spend locking up non-violent drug offenders, we could really make a big difference in people's lives.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:44 am 
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DOQ - I often forget we are in the same area. I remember that program. Vaguely but I spoke with someone back in the day who was involved in it. I may have actually interviewed them for a job but can't remember exactly where I learned about the program. Anyways, I remembered at the time thinking it was an awesome idea and I was very interested in it. Too bad they didn't get funding to continue.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:04 pm 
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That's funny Jackcrack, when I was writing that post I was wondering if you would have heard of it!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:01 am 
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Good topic, and some good thoughts have been posted here by all, as usual. I have been very fortunate in the almost two years that I have been on Suboxone that I have not required emergency medical care. Clearly, since I work in the Information Technology business (I am the Director of I.T. at my company) the chances of me being injured on the job are really quite minuscule and I don't generally engage in recreational activities that would potentially result in injury either, since most of my "me" time is spent writing and recording music with my band. (we're about to release an album, but I digress....)

The unfortunate reality, folks, is that there IS a stigma associated with drug addiction. There always has been and there always will be. Now, in the last 20 or so years, I would say that things have improved quite a bit. More and more people are open to the concepts of addiction being an illness and not a moral issue, but there is still plenty of ignorance out there regarding this disease. And yes, I fully and unequivocally embrace the disease concept because I think the evidence supports it. Drug addicts don't want to be drug addicts. No one wakes up one day and says, "gee, I think I'll get myself physically and emotionally dependent on oxycontin so that I can systematically ruin my life" :roll:

Who among us has not obtained pills or other opiates from a doctor by lying to them? My guess is 99% of the people who are currently taking suboxone have done so. Imagine how many times a doctor working in an ED (by the way, what is "ED" anyway? We call it the "ER" where I live, for Emergency Room, is "ED" for Emergency Department?)......anyway, just imagine how many times per week someone is trying to scam ER doctors......over time, they are going to have a hard time not becoming jaded and cynical about addicts. After all, they're human, just like us.

However, with that said, I firmly believe that doctors need to be educated about addiction and suboxone. Now, I'm not going to demonize Methadone. It works. And for some people, it's the right choice. I myself came very close to getting on Methadone and the ONLY reason I am NOT on it right now is because there was just no way I could make the commitment to go to a clinic each day to get my dose, not with my unpredictable work schedule. I was literally faced with a choice of getting on Methadone or keeping my job. Given that I support my mother and keep a roof over her head and food on her table, there was no way I could even consider it.......so, I had to look at suboxone, because of the fact that you can instantly take it home. The other problem for me with Methadone was the potential for abuse, that scared me and frankly, I don't believe I have another relapse in me. Meaning, I think the next one might just kill me.....so suboxone it was!

Now, when I pick up my prescription at the drug store, depending on who serves me that day, I either get :roll: or I get :D and you know that the woman who is giving me :roll: likely thinks I'm just some low-life, bottom feeding, scum bag junkie piece of shit. You can feel the contempt oozing off of them.

However, my experience with the medical community thus far has actually been quite positive. My Primary Care Provider, who is new (I changed doctors to get away from the one who had prescribed me thousands of percoset) accepted me with open arms, and when I handed him my list of medications, he said, "So, you're on suboxone, eh? Want to tell me a little about how that came to be?" So, I told him everything and he said, "Good move! You did the right thing." And I know he was sincere.

I had a similar experience with my liver biopsy. There were several doctors involved in that procedure and all of them were very gracious and kind, even after I had told them that I was on suboxone. One woman even said, "congratulations for taking control of your life back."

Now, granted, these are not ED doctors. And my guess is when you work in the ED, you are going to encounter drug seeker after drug seeker after drug seeker, day in and day out. And that HAS to have some impact on your opinion of addiction, right?

All we can do as responsible recovering addicts is try to be good role models and spread the truth about our experiences with suboxone whenever and wherever possible. Clearly, it's not something we all want to be shouting from the rooftops, but I think the best way to fight ignorance is with knowledge.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:20 pm 
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I definitley think the Primary Care Doctors are much more open about our success with addiction. When I went to treatment one of the requirements was that my Primary Doctor was going to receive my records from the treatment center. I of course didn't want to do this because I was still thinking like an addict and knowing that he was pretty liberal with his prescription pad did not want him to know in case I wanted to get more opiates. I did however sign the release and agreed to it.

Well everytime I went to the doctor after that my chart had a big red stamp on it that said Substance Abuser on it. I of course would get the stares and the whispering from the staff but overall my doctor was pretty cool about it. I eventually had to stop seeing him as my ex wife saw him as well and soon he said it was too much of a conflict and he would see her and my kids but I needed to find a new doc.

After finding suboxone I have had an ocassion to be treated like a low life junkie for not reporting I was on suboxone after seeking treatment for what I thought was a spider bite. I now know why after speaking with these two ER (listen I know it as ER-it has a sign called Emergencey Room outside the hospital in big RED letters and I am not in the health field..it's ER). When I decided to get a new Primary Doctor after moving to a new state back in May I vowed to start my relationship honestly with this new doctor. He spent 45 minutes with me to get my history. he asked alot of questions about suboxone and I even gave him this web site address. I was very worried about how I would be treated or judged by him. He told me his father was an alcoholic/addict and only wished something like this was around back then that might have saved him. I have seen him twice since living here for med refills and each time he has asked about my recovery, suboxone and AA. Overall I am very pleased with him I think it is cool he is interested in my recovery and suboxone.

I did have elbow surgery while on suboxone and did not tell the surgeon or my sub doctor early in my treatment. Looking back I do not think that was a wise decision. I do know if I need to have surgery any time in the future I would definitely get my Primary and Sub Doc involved so I can take the right route however I am concerned whether I will get true pain management. My sub doc is very much a "Belly Bopper" very arrogont and knows everything about suboxone. I say that in jest because I think he is mis-informed about some things and when I talk about things I learn on here he doesn't exactly agree. For example- I was switched to Subutex by my first sub doc and was on that when I first met with him. he told me my doctor was violating Federal Law by subscribing subutex.......What???

I certainly like the idea about referring or at least giving literature to someone they think is exhibiting drug seeking behavior instead of just sending us on our way humilated no matter all the signs they have about treating your pain and that how important pain management is at their hospital....etc. I think someone brought up smoking but I am always asked if I want information about securing a living will.

So it is what it is....sometimes we actually are believed and treated with respect and diginity and given proper treatment. Sometimes we are judged and treated like shit. I have to tell you 95% of the time I got exactly what I was looking for when I went to the ER or Urgent Care drug seeking. I really do beleive you are judged by the way you look, dress and occupation and I do believe there is a fear factor with some doctor's. It was like a game like DONH said....would I beat (scam) them or would they see through me. I know I have intimidated ER docs to give me what I want and have even gone as far as rejecting the bullshit script and demanding they give me something else. I know I was wrong and I know I deserve some of the treatment I have received since being on suboxone. I just find it odd that I feel treated differently for taking a medication that is suppose to help my recovery of opiate addiction then when I was actively seeking opiates. Sure some can say that suboxone can be used for pain control but we all know if you google suboxone it clearly says medication for opiate dependence.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:18 pm 
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Lilly wrote:
I've been to the ED twice since i've been on Sub, and did not disclose either time, although when i was in the accident the cop took my liscence out of my pocketbook and failed to see the med alert card i had in there about Sub (so i guess i know how effective that would have been if i'd been usconscious).


Yanno... I picked up one of those cards from my sub doctor and read it and filled it out and put it in my wallet right away. It horrified me to think what would happen if I were to get in a car accident and were unconscious. Now that you've said this, I'm going to fold the med alert card around my driver's license. Fortunately, it is folded and business card sized. I can just fold it over my license so if something happens, that's the first thing they see.

As far as disclosing information at an ED, I think I would disclose the fact I was on Suboxone. And tell them with my head held high. Fuck'em. I'm an addict and I'm seeking treatment. At least I'm not that fool I was a month ago who would have (if I had to) hurt myself to get the drugs. I honestly would have broke my own arm if I were to have no access to the Roxi's.

And someone said something about the skin tone of an addict? Well, I'll be the first to tell you that my complexion has gotten SO MUCH BETTER since I went off the Roxi's and got on the Suboxone. I don't break out hardly at all (and this is just three weeks on!) and my eyes look clearer and more awake.

God, I hated to look at myself in the mirror when I was on those fucking pills. Now I'm all like, Image .... LOL!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:44 pm 
This really is a great thread. All the posts here seem quite thoughtful and insightful. We've all had our share of what it's like to be on both ends of the spectrum......being 'drug seekers' and now being 'labeled addicts' on buprenorphine. Sometimes I wonder which is worse! It's almost like at least if you're a drug seeker, there is room for doubt (maybe they're wrong, maybe you really are in pain and need help.) But once you've got the label....like ReRaise's example of the red 'substance abuser' stamp on his chart, well...it's over.....you're a drug-seeking junkie and most generally will be treated differently because of it. Regardless of whether you're in treatment or not! Too bad, I say! And now we've got the whole 'big brother' thing going on.....the ability of all healthcare providers to access your history and see exactly what drugs you're on or have been on. My question is.....How long does this information stick? Will the history go back a year, two years, forever? Or will the system 'purge' after a period of time? Am I forever marked as a drug addict because I have 6 months or so of Suboxone scripts on my profile? God I hope not!
What if I present to the ER (yes I said 'ER' and I was in the medical profession for many years and where I come from that's what we always called it and still do....docs, nurses and all....it's the ER, right, wrong or absolutely indifferent and I did not work for tiny, backwoods hospitals either) with an acute pain situation. Am I going to have to go through a bunch of humiliation and be required to recite my entire history with drugs in the midst of my anguish to justify myself, that I truly am in need of pain management? What a nightmarish thought.
I can only hope that I am successful in getting off and staying off Suboxone in the near future. I don't want to be stuck in this category for the rest of my life. There are so many other reasons as well.....insurance issues (health, life, etc) in which my addiction plays a negative role. Obviously my life is more important than any of that. And I'll never bash Suboxone. I just hope my choice to use it as a tool to help me ultimately become completely drug free doesn't haunt me for the rest of my life!
As to the idea of posting things in the ER......FANTASTIC! I know at the office I used for my Suboxone treatment they were posted there. The 'office' was actually also an Urgent Care Clinic. The posters were obviously provided by RB, but they were really good. I think something like that should be posted in all health care facilities. Just like when you go into a casino......they've got signs all over the place that say something like "Think you've got a gambling problem? Call...###### for help."
I guess bottom line is.....This is a problem that I see no end to. There are always going to be some doctors and nurses who are sensitive to addiction issues and many who are not. It's the luck of the draw. But, as always, honesty on our part is always the best policy....painful and humiliating as it may be. And frankly....as unnessary as it may be. As in ReRaises spider bite......He said right off the top he didn't want pain meds.....shouldn't that be enough to scream "I AM NOT A DRUG SEEKER!" Apparently not.
Guess all we can do is what we can to try to change the "face" of addiction. There was a poster at the treatment center I went to that had a picture of a lovely looking 50ish year old lady that said something like "Good person.....Bad problem" I always liked that poster. That's how I feel about us......We are good people who happen to have a bad problem!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:16 pm 
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setmefree wrote:
Guess all we can do is what we can to try to change the "face" of addiction. There was a poster at the treatment center I went to that had a picture of a lovely looking 50ish year old lady that said something like "Good person.....Bad problem" I always liked that poster. That's how I feel about us......We are good people who happen to have a bad problem!


Exactly!

My mother's former pulmonologist is in treatment for opiate addiction. Unfortunately, he is unable to practice without supervision and no one will touch him, professionally. However, all his former patients LOVED him and in every online ranking system, he was giving the highest amount of stars. My mother now sees his former associate, and she doesn't like him at all. She wants Dr. Jacobson back, with or without the drugs.

It can happen to anyone. It happened to Dr. Junig (did I spell that right?) and a lot of other good people, too. Why does being an addict equal being a bad person? I try and think back to how I viewed an addict when I wasn't an addict, and I honestly cannot remember my opinions of them/us.

I think we need more posters like the one you described.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Yea this is actually a subject i think about alot but

I have a really bad knee injury and end up in the ER from time to time when it gives out to a certain point. any ways i always turn down any pain meds cause NOT ONE DR OR NURSE HAS ANY IDEA WHAT THE HELL IM TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAY IM ON SUBOXONE I CANT HAVE ANY OPIATES! Then i have to do the whole run down every time. i sware i have told the same nurse this at least 5 times and she still never knows what im talking about. one time they even brought me 2 percocets after i told both the dr and nurse i cant take any opiates cause of the meds im on. its like the complete opposite hear they have no idea what suboxone is!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Gawd, bboy, sometimes you have to wonder what is going on with those doctors!

I remember someone posting a story here about getting dental work done, telling the dentist that they were on Sub and they couldn't take or didn't want any opiates.

The dentist said: That's ok, I'll just write you a prescription for Norcos! D'oy! :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:31 am 
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Bboy42287 wrote:
Yea this is actually a subject i think about alot but

I have a really bad knee injury and end up in the ER from time to time when it gives out to a certain point. any ways i always turn down any pain meds cause NOT ONE DR OR NURSE HAS ANY IDEA WHAT THE HELL IM TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAY IM ON SUBOXONE I CANT HAVE ANY OPIATES! Then i have to do the whole run down every time. i sware i have told the same nurse this at least 5 times and she still never knows what im talking about. one time they even brought me 2 percocets after i told both the dr and nurse i cant take any opiates cause of the meds im on. its like the complete opposite hear they have no idea what suboxone is!


OMG! I went to the same hospital ER FIVE TIMES in a three month period (way back in the olden days when I wasn't an addict) because of severe stomach pains. Every single time I went, they gave me an ultrasound, sonogram, the whole work up, but never found anything. Hell, they probably thought I was a drug seeker. Each time I went in, I told them that I had already had these procedures at this very same hospital last week/month/whatever to no avail. I was still put through the same test and still sent home with some vague diagnosis of IBS or gas or something.

FINALLY, after my FIFTH time in the SAME ER, some doctor with his head out of his ass decided to look at my history and my complaints and rushed me into emergency, exploratory surgery wherein he found out that my appendix was >< close to bursting. He caught it just in time. Apparently, my appendix was really small and they couldn't see the inflammation or whatever on the ultrasound or sonograms.

Then, since my appendix was on the verge of bursting, I ended up getting an infection and was in the hospital for nearly a week as opposed to the average 2-3 day stay an appendix removal surgery requires. With no insurance, it cost me over $40,000 in hospital bills and even more in doctor bills and radiology bills and bills for this and that and so and so forth...and this was 11 years ago! It'd prolly be double that, now.

Sometimes I think in these large hospitals with all their fancy computer systems and departments for this and that and the other thing, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing and therefore it's nothing but chaos. It's no wonder our healthcare costs are so high.

Yanno what's funny? Had you gone in SEEKING drugs, they wouldn't have given you a thing. Yet there you were specifically telling them NOT to give you drugs and they were handing them out like MnM's for fuck's sake.

I think if I ever have to go to the ER, I'm going to the hokey little tiny hospital down the road. At least they'd probably recognize me if I came in there five times in three months.

God!

Oh, and good morning everyone! Image


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:17 am 
Reading this thread brought up a memory. I was at a statewide conference of my church's leadership, both professional and lay. There were 100's of people there. The topic of addiction was being discussed, and the speaker asked everyone to close their eyes and raise their hand if either they or someone close to them had a problem with addiction. Me, being an active addict at the time, opened my eyes. Literally 95% of the people in that hall had their hands up. The speaker said "that's what I thought". So what's up with these ER docs and nurses? Addiction isn't some distant skid row problem. It's huge, it's in every school, church, workplace and community. So why the ignorance and jugement? If there were an epidemic of some communicable disease going around you could be pretty sure they'd be up on it. This is an epidemic. What are they waiting for?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:22 am 
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Lilly wrote:
Reading this thread brought up a memory. I was at a statewide conference of my church's leadership, both professional and lay. There were 100's of people there. The topic of addiction was being discussed, and the speaker asked everyone to close their eyes and raise their hand if either they or someone close to them had a problem with addiction. Me, being an active addict at the time, opened my eyes. Literally 95% of the people in that hall had their hands up. The speaker said "that's what I thought". So what's up with these ER docs and nurses? Addiction isn't some distant skid row problem. It's huge, it's in every school, church, workplace and community. So why the ignorance and jugement? If there were an epidemic of some communicable disease going around you could be pretty sure they'd be up on it. This is an epidemic. What are they waiting for?


It IS an epidemic and it's NOT being addressed. I think people in power are AFRAID to address it due to the stigma associated with it. But, in order to get rid of the stigma attached to addiction, someone needs to address it. It's catch 22, so people just sweep it under the rug. The only people who are paying any attention to it are those who are addicted and those of whom can make money off of it.

There needs to be some kind of an awareness group or something, because it's only going to get worse. As long as pain medication are being prescribed in the amounts that they are, the worse it's going to get. It's already a HUGE epidemic where I live..... Pain management clinics are a dime a dozen as are detox facilities. Hell, some places are one and the same. They place ads in the local papers that literally say "STOP CHRONIC PAIN NOW" and right next to it is says, "DETOX AVAILABLE!" It's craziness!

The DEA seems to be willing to crack down on the people prescribing the drugs, but the people who have fallen victim to the addiction are being ignored.

Check THIS out! There are an average of 11 drug overdoses a day in my county. http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?id=6207

People come from all over the nation to get pills here.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
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