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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:32 pm 
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I've been on Suboxone since May 2010. I see the doctor once a month (usually), and am prescribed the films - 8mg 3x a day. She does a drug test at every visit, and every few months I'm called in for a random pill count and drug test. In the past 14 months, I've done well. In Jan I had hip surgery and did take percocets (the sub doc knows this), it's been a long recovery and I'm doing PT a few times a week and will need surgery on the other hip in a few months. Anywayyyy, in March I slipped on my stairs and thought I re-injured the hip I had repaired in Jan. I was in pain that advil, tylenol and naproxen was not helping, called the ortho on-call (it was a Sunday) who said to go to the er or an urgent care, and I did. Xray didn't show any tear in the repaired area thank God, and I was rx'd percocets again. 10 of them. Honestly, they didn't even help. I told my Sub doc at the next visit, and she freaked out on me! Said I went just to get pain pills, didn't believe that I did in fact slip on the stairs, blah blah blah. Okay, I get where she's coming from I really do. Addicts are creative liars, but in all honesty I didn't lie and I really didn't even have to tell her about those percs if I didn't want to because it was more than a week later that I saw her and I knew the percs wouldn't show up on the drug screen at that point. But I was honest, so be it.
Today I had my monthly appt with the Sub doc. She informs me that last month (the June visit), I was positive for Dilaudid. Huh? I did not do any Dilaudid! Absolutely, positively did not. I told her there had to be some mistake. She said no, the last urine test showed the presence of Dilaudid. No way! I didn't. I wouldn't, Dilaudid wasn't even my thing, and the only time I had that was by IV after the hip surgery in Jan. So my Sub doc doesn't believe me, she accused me of lying! OMG, I am hurt, and I am pissed off. She would only give me 2 weeks worth of Sub and now I have to go every 2 weeks instead of every month and she said to expect to be called for even more random urine tests. Fine, I've got nothing to hide, but ..... I didn't do anything wrong! There's been a mistake, I didn't take Dilaudid or anything since those few percs back in March which now I'm sorry I even told her about that. I was being honest! Now, a couple of months after that episode and clean tests since, all of the sudden Dilaudid comes up. And the doc doesn't believe me. I left so upset, but from now on I'm going to personally hand my urine cup to the nurse (no leaving it in that stupid little window in the restroom), watch to be sure it's MY urine with MY name on the cup and MY name on the sealed specimen bag. But what else can I do?? I want to change doctors, I've had other issues with this particular practice regarding privacy, but my record will go with me and how can I convince her I didn't do Dilaudid? I know what some people are gonna say ..... it's done, let it go. But really, I'm upset at the moment. What could've causes a positive hydromorphone (whatever Dilaudid is)? Anyone know, or anyone ever had this happen?
Thanks for reading. I needed to vent and to know I'm not alone.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Damn, I'd probably be even more pissed off than you are! That's just crazy. Would she let you see the lab report? She might not want to, but I would want to ask. It might not make the situation with the doctor any better, but if you really want to prove your point - and I would if it were me - I would ask to see that lab report. Maybe they put someone else's in your chart. Just a thought.

Anyway, that really sucks. I'd want to vent, too. Do you have to pay cash for all those extra appointments? I sure hope not. I hope if there's a way to prove your "innocence" that you can. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Thanks Hatmaker. I should've asked to see the lab report, you're right. Didn't even think about it at the time, I was just completely shocked. It's all computerized, the doc walks around with her laptop and read the report from that. There prob is a paper copy, somewhere. I felt like she is holding the whole perc thing against me from a few months ago. The thing is, I was honest with her at that time and didn't see the problem because she KNEW I've been dealing with major hip pain for months, it's not like I randomly went to some urgent care with some made-up issue. Her whole attitude toward me had changed since March, prior to that we got along fine and there's never been a problem. Then today .... Also, Dilaudid is just so random I mean how the heck did that happen and why wouldn't she give me the benefit of the doubt here, when OC's were my thing. If it was oxy that showed up, that's one thing but Dilaudid I'd think would maybe make her question the labs herself. Know what I mean? (rhetorical, lol). I don't have a co-pay for the visits, but I do have to pay for the sub rx. Now I've gotta pay 2x this month. Not to mention my ins is being billed for all this shit, the labs, etc. With another visit this month, plus all the times I got called in for randoms .... I'm getting close to my deductible (whatever it's called) and soon enough I'll be paying out of pocket.
Thanks for listening . I am just So Pissed Off!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Hi RockerMom (love your name!) -

I'm sorry you have to deal with this crap situation. It sucks so much to work hard to recover from addiction and fix your life...only to have your health care provider doubt and distrust you when you've tried to do the right thing.

Our doctors are SUPPOSED to be helping us recover from a life-threatening illness, but it seems like many of them just don't get that. Even if we do slip and make a mistake, we need support and understanding - not judgement and attitude. In your case, you did everything right and you're still being treated unfairly.

If I was you, this is what I would probably do: I would wait until I felt less emotionally reactive and then I'd sit down and write out exactly what happened and how I was feeling about the situation. Then I would write a letter to my doctor. I would tell her my side of the story, how I perceive that the situation has impacted the doctor-patient relationship, etc. I would make an appointment to talk about the situation and either give her the letter or at least go over it with her.

I think it is important that she knows your thoughts and feelings about this. Maybe she's not even aware that she's treating you differently. If you were highly compliant before this, I would bring that up, as well as your point about how you didn't HAVE to tell her about your ER visit and the percosets...but you did so because you are making a practice of honesty in your recovery. Her behavior towards you is not conducive to your recovery and it's just not cool. Judging you and treating you like a criminal is not supporting your recovery. And if she is going to make you come in every two weeks because of this drug screen, I think she should give you a clear idea of how long that will last, how many clean tests you have to have before you can go back to once a month visits, etc.

Of course, you know your doctor better and you know how she might react, so maybe you'll want to have a back up doctor lined up before you do this.

Also, I agree with Hat that you should ask to see that lab report. Mistakes can be made and I would want to know what kind of test they ran and what the exact findings were so I could research it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:55 pm 
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I'm so sorry you going thru this.

I had the same thing happen before I was on the Suboxone. I was still on the pain pills and she would do drug screens. I showed up positive for everything. Pot,estacy,cocaine and a few others. Nothing showed up for the Percocets. I was like you,shocked. I had not done any of those drugs in many years. It wasn't till I left and thought about it and said,this could not of been my urine. I did however demand a blood test when it happened in her office. Of course,it came back clean and only showed the percs. She dropped me anyway,b/c she said I was a high risk. She refused to admit there was something wrong with "her urine test.

So,I do know how you feel and it's so wrong. It leaves you feeling like crap. You know you innocent but they Refuse to admit it or give you a chance. Because they think they right then what we have to say means nothing.
Just b/c we are addicts they seem to feel they are in complete control and refuse to except that maybe there is a problem with the drug screen.

Now,when i'm being tested i insist on seeing it go from my hands to the nurse's hands.

Also,she can look up and see all of the drugs you have had filled,even from the ER or any Urgent Care. That could possibly prove it to her. At this point I don't know if that would help but it might make you feel a lil better to at least try to prove your innocense.

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. It's plenty hard enough for us to stay in recovery and to have to deal with BS is just WRONG.

Good luck and hang in there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Wow, thanks everyone! I do need to speak with her when I'm not so upset, and will do so at the next visit in 2 weeks. I've been thinking and wondering if maybe someone switched urines? Last time I went it was mid-morning and fairly crowded there. Only one bathroom, with that stupid window thingy. How do I know that someone didn't go in right behind me, before the nurse took mine out from the lab side of the window, and switch. 1 nurses, 2 doctors and all 6 exam rooms were filled I remember now. I dunno, just grasping and why should I, it's done now. But that's what could've happened maybe. I'd like to find out if someone seen on that morning at the beginning of June has a history of Dilaudid use, not that I can find out much due to privacy of course, but just in general. But wtf, why couldn't my doc today think of that, ya know? Ugh. I'll stop now, sorry!
On another note, yes I do feel like I'm being treated as a criminal sometimes at that office. The random tests and pill counts bug the crap outta me! To a certain extent, I underdstand why it's done. But I've since learned that not ALL sub docs require them (random urines and counts). I'm there because I myself chose to quit oxy, and not because I was court ordered to go there. If you miss a call to come in for a random urine/pill count, you get kicked out. If you miss an appt, you get kicked out. If you test + for opiates more than once, out you go. I mean, going to the pain clinic in the first place and getting 180 of the 10's a month as well as xans and somas was so much easier than this. I know there has to be some control and all that and I get that, but really after today I'm just wanting to stop subs all together. I've had this same doc totally violate my privacy a few months ago (she FAXED a letter to my ortho after my surgery telling him I was on subs, because she told me she didn't think I'd tell him! WTF. Of course I told him, and she messed up with not taking me off subs prior to the surgery and my pain was sooo not controlled. Another time, her nurse said in front of a waiting room of people that I was there because I was a cocaine addict, and that was why I needed a repeat urine. It got spilled the day before by a different nurse, I was called to come back but not told why and this nurse said I *looked* like a coke addict. I'm not by the way, not sure why the nurse said that and I did report her) Wow, I'm really ranting! Sorry. That should've been another post.
Do a lot of places require random pill counts? How about random urine's? Just wondering. I haven't read too much on this site, I'm sure I can find some answers though.
Thanks again :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:15 pm 
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My Sub doctor did random UA's, sorta. He didn't call me up and say "come in for a UA today" or anything, he would just sometimes have me do a UA at a regularly scheduled appointment. Just not every time, and it really wasn't often. He had to though because I was on medicaid and the state required the UA's if they were paying for my Sub treatment.

When I started the program they said that they could ask me to bring my meds in for a pill count, but in almost 2 years that never happened.

I had a situation while I was on Sub where I went to the ER for a kidney stone. They gave me IV dilaudid and percs to take home. I called my Sub doc's office the next day and they were like "whatever." At my next appointment all the doctor wanted to know was if the dilaudid actually worked (he was interested to see if it could break through the Sub to provide pain relief) and how I was doing. He said to take the percs if I needed them and then just go back on the Suboxone when the stone passed.

I was ready with the radiology report to show that I really had a stone and everything but my doctor didn't even ask anything about it. I think I really lucked out with this doctor though - my experience with my Sub doc doesn't seem all that typical though at least compared to what I read about on the forum.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:22 pm 
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I've had two sub doctors in two and a half years. The first one did a UA at every appointment (monthly), but didn't do any pill counts. I saw him for about 6 months. My current doctor is my primary care doctor and he doesn't do UA's or pill counts, but keep in mind I also take my sub for my chronic pain, so I might not even be included in his 100 patients.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:10 am 
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Did these positives show up on an in-house screening, or were they actually verified in a lab via GC/MS? IME, "quickie" screens can yield all sorts of weird results.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:18 pm 
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I really feel for you. Addiction always involves some level of dishonesty, even if it's only lying to ourselves. Then we get into recovery and do our best to live an honest life. So when someone accuses us of lying (especially about using when we're clean), it cuts to the bone. Just know that WE believe you and support you, and hopefully your doctor will see by your continued adherence to your program that she was wrong.
Keep doing what you're doing. YOU know you're being honest and that will ultimately help you to be successful in your recovery. You didn't say f*ck it, if she thinks I'm using I might as wll go ahead and use. You are going forward and trying to solve the problem in a logical way, without going off on anybody. Good for you - being able to handle this kind of crap is a sign that you're healthy and keeping it together.
I hope you stick around the forum and keep posting.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:33 pm 
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If this happens again tell her to write you up a blood test scrip and go right to the blood work place near you and get it done that day. Blood test are the way to go if something like this ever happens because you can prove that you are in now way doing what she said you are.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:53 am 
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RockerMom wrote:
I've been on Suboxone since May 2010. I see the doctor once a month (usually), and am prescribed the films - 8mg 3x a day. She does a drug test at every visit, and every few months I'm called in for a random pill count and drug test. In the past 14 months, I've done well. In Jan I had hip surgery and did take percocets (the sub doc knows this), it's been a long recovery and I'm doing PT a few times a week and will need surgery on the other hip in a few months. Anywayyyy, in March I slipped on my stairs and thought I re-injured the hip I had repaired in Jan. I was in pain that advil, tylenol and naproxen was not helping, called the ortho on-call (it was a Sunday) who said to go to the er or an urgent care, and I did. Xray didn't show any tear in the repaired area thank God, and I was rx'd percocets again. 10 of them. Honestly, they didn't even help. I told my Sub doc at the next visit, and she freaked out on me! Said I went just to get pain pills, didn't believe that I did in fact slip on the stairs, blah blah blah. Okay, I get where she's coming from I really do. Addicts are creative liars, but in all honesty I didn't lie and I really didn't even have to tell her about those percs if I didn't want to because it was more than a week later that I saw her and I knew the percs wouldn't show up on the drug screen at that point. But I was honest, so be it.
Today I had my monthly appt with the Sub doc. She informs me that last month (the June visit), I was positive for Dilaudid. Huh? I did not do any Dilaudid! Absolutely, positively did not. I told her there had to be some mistake. She said no, the last urine test showed the presence of Dilaudid. No way! I didn't. I wouldn't, Dilaudid wasn't even my thing, and the only time I had that was by IV after thealed se hip surgery in Jan. So my Sub doc doesn't believe me, she accused me of lying! OMG, I am hurt, and I am pissed off. She would only give me 2 weeks worth of Sub and now I have to go every 2 weeks instead of every month and she said to expect to be called for even more random urine tests. Fine, I've got nothing to hide, but ..... I didn't do anything wrong! There's been a mistake, I didn't take Dilaudid or anything since those few percs back in March which now I'm sorry I even told her about that. I was being honest! Now, a couple of months after that episode and clean tests since, all of the sudden Dilaudid comes up. And the doc doesn't believe me. I left so upset, but from now on I'm going to personally hand my urine cup to the nurse (no leaving it in that stupid little window in the restroom), watch to be sure it's MY urine with MY name on the cup and MY name on the specimen bag. But what else can I do?? I want to change doctors, I've had other issues with this particular practice regarding privacy, but my record will go with me and how can I convince her I didn't do Dilaudid? I know what some people are gonna say ..... it's done, let it go. But really, I'm upset at the moment. What could've causes a positive hydromorphone (whatever Dilaudid is)? Anyone know, or anyone ever had this happen?
Thanks for reading. I needed to vent and to know I'm not alone.
Hi! Just letting you know I have been taking my suboxone strips faithfully since this past February, which is when i started-each monthly visit, I get a swab on my tongue-always came out clean, as i am a vicodin addict, and when i went to my appointment this June, the Dr. showed my lab report to me and ask, What is this? I didn't know what he was talking about, but it showed in May at some point I had 1 vicodin in my system! I about fell out of the chair, because I KNOW I didn't take one-I have been faithful to this program since i started-well, I think they pretty much thought I was lying, and I told my Dr. (in tears!) I did no such thing-I also asked him why would I take just 1? They have no effect at all since I'm on these strips, so what since would that make-I guess my point is, can't the lab who does these tests make mistakes? The lady behind the window in the office acted like there was no way they could EVER be wrong-ruined my whole day! I know I'm not perfect, but I also know I'm not going to waste my time or my money and ruin it by starting back on vicodin-so, you are not alone, i still think these people can make mistakes! I'm scared to death now to see what the next test will show! Don't feel alone, I know my situation wasn't as bad as yours, but I'm with you! I just accepted the fact that I know i didn't take it, and being on those strips, I don't crave vicodin anyway! The way they act is what made me mad- I mean, 1 vicodin? Anyway, don't let it bother you, I thought this only happened to me-bet it happens more than we know, and what that tells me is that someone, somewhere, CAN make mistakes! thanks for listening:)


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 Post subject: Mistake
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Hi gopherboo,

Now that I've typed your name I'm still laughing at it. Very unique indeed!

Depending on the test, I think they all show false positives once in awhile. You should ask your doctor which one they use then look up the false positive ratings on it. For them to think that ANY test is 100% accurate is just plain foolish. Don't put too much into it though, it's doubtful anything will be done about it. If it makes you feel better, ask for another one.

Aside from that, welcome to the forum! Why don't you start a new thread in the Introductions section and tell us a little something about yourself?

Either way, you will learn a good deal about Suboxone here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:24 pm 
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I remember right around the end of my sub treatment that the Dr office started using new instant check drug test. So I take my test go wait in the room for the Dr to come and she tells me I showed up for benzodiazepines morphine and amphetamines! I never even tried an amphetamine I hated benzodiazepines never was into downers and most of all I hated morphine with a passion it made my pain worst and it never gave me a high feeling. Than the Dr proceeds to tell me she had a patient who never used coke or let's alone failed a drug test and he showed up positive for coke. So I say why do u even use these test and so on. So I come for my very last app they are still using the same brand drug test and I show up for opium and thc told th dr she had no right to accuse me of this considering before u switched from sending it out to a lab to this new instant bullshit, I never once failed a single test in three years but now I'm all the sudden using drugs I have not used in 36 plus months. And she called me a lire and so on. It didn't matter bc my MD started his own sub practice so I had a new Dr but just to prove her and all the nurses who said I lied and cheated all my drug test so I did a blood test and hair follicle sample sent the results to the old sub Dr not a single thing was in my system besides suboxone. I called and asked if they got my results and they said they don't know how but I cheated that too. I hate people in the medical field who will never admit they mad a mistake.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Something similar happened to me. Every month I take a urine drug test at quest labs. At my May sub appointment my doctor told me I tested positive for amphetamines. I've never taken amphetamines in my life. I had just started taking Wellbutrin a few weeks earlier (prescribed by this same doctor) and I asked if that could be it, since that was the only thing different I had done from any other month. He said absolutely not. He said maybe it was a lab error, but if it happens again I won't be able to keep treating you. As soon as I got home I looked online and found tons of links saying that Wellbutrin can cause false positives for amphetamines. It even said so on my medication guide that I got from the pharmacy. So I spent the last month being equally pissed off and scared that it would happen again. He did order additional tests that month. I did the usual urine test to check my sub levels, and I had blood taken to check my klonopin and Wellbutrin levels. At my appointment last week he said everything was fine, that I was 'clean' this time. Asked what I did different. I told him I did nothing different and I showed him a bunch of documents I had printed out about the false positive thing. One of them was by the FDA even. He finally admitted it was possible, that the Wellbutrin had probably caused it. He said that from now on if it happens once in a while he'll understand. But if I were to keep coming up positive that would be a problem. So I'm still a little nervous. Hopefully it won't keep happening. But if it does I'll insist on more specific testing. Because I know I'm right. I don't want to have to switch doctors cuz it's not easy finding one who takes insurance, has a therapist there in the same office (my insurance requires that I see a therapist) and they also work around me and my husband's work schedules. It's an hour away but it's worth the drive. Anyway, I just wanted to relate my story. Most of these tests are not completely accurate and I think false positives are a pretty frequent occurance. Knowing this, I don't think it's right for doctors to blindly trust these tests, instead of trusting their patients and trying to figure out what caused the problem. I know we're addicts, and addicts tend to lie when in active addiction. But we're on suboxone because we wanted to stop all the lying, and change our lives for the better. Our doctors should know that, and put a little more faith in us, and not those stupid unreliable tests.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:51 pm 
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One month I went to my doctor for my monthly appointment and I had been sick sometime before that. I had felt awful just wore down and tired, had fever, coughing just an old nasty sickness. Well, the night before I had to take a dose of Robitussin because I was having some problems clearing my throat. I didnt think one single thing about it. I figured nothing would happen. Well, when I got to the doctor's office and took my urinalysis it came up that I was positive for Meth-Amphetamines. This is not even possible, in no way, shape or form. Doc knew that as well, the nurses were even shocked. They all knew that I was not positive for that, because well from what I have seen people on that stuff have a certain demeanor about them. Their faces even look like they have lost all hope. I checked the urine cup to see if maybe there was a line there but it was faint or something, no line whatsoever. Well, I talked to the nurses and told them that I had taken some cough medicine and a Naproxen the night before that was it. I have to take Naproxen if my jaw flares up for TMJ. The nurse said that there was no way possible that the test was right, they would send it off and check it again to make sure. Doc looked at it and said that he knew for one hundred percent that I was not taking that stuff. He just typed in that I had a clean urine test because he knew better. Even at my doctors office, if you are taking something on the sly he wont drop you. He feels that if he drops a patient that has a relapse or slips, that it just causes more problem. Instead of dropping a patient, he will work that much harder to make sure that you dont do it again. He also doesnt have a problem with people using THC for pain. He doesnt want you to overdo it, but if you have chronic pain he feels that with it being natural it is more healthy than taking a bunch of man made pills.
I dont personally do it but I have heard stories in the doctor's office about others that do take it. I wish that everyone could go to my doctor, he is nice and considerate. He is also a very honest and no bullshit doctor as well. I still havent gotten used to the treatment over there being the way that I was treated at my old doctor's office. They were terrible.


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 Post subject: Maybe..
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Hydrocodone (Loratab) breaks down into hydromorphone (Dilaudid) via the liver, and from what I hear a lot of doctors aren't aware of this fact, and oxycodone also breaks down into oxymorphone. I was thinking maybe you were given hydrocodone sometime throughout your hospital and E.R. visits. And yes I would definitely get a copy of the lab report.


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