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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:23 pm 
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I have been taking suboxone for 8 months now and it has worked great for me.Today I had my monthly appointment and out of the blue my doc said I want to put you on the generic subutex. I asked why and he said for one it's cheaper...it is only $5 for30 day supply with my insurance...andd that I am not an IV drug user and I really don't need naloxone. I expressed that I was ok on my current dose of suboxone(4mg twice daily) but he was adamant that I do this. He wrote me a script to take 2 2mg tablets under the tongue twice a day and we would begin a taper schedule next month. I took 1 2mg tablet and it tasted terrible....some people say that about suboxone but I love it's taste. I have noticed that I am extremely drowsy.....and feel wierd. Is there really that big of a difference between the two? Has anyone taken both that can share with me what I can expect or if everything will be the same. Any help is appreciated........


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:36 am 
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Hi ReRaise,

I don't have any experience switching to generic, although I was considering asking my doctor about it.
Alot of folks here have discussed switching, but I'm not sure how many have yet.

Perhaps switching you to Subutex allows your doctor to take on a new Suboxone patient? I have no idea - just a shot in the dark. I can't imagine why he would insist on it...


How have you been doing since you posted? Please let us know how you're doing.

Melissa


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:52 pm 
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thanks for your response......I want to say that I am on my second full day on subutex and I feel high as a kite..like I did when I was using. This is scaring me......suboxone made me feel normal- no high..cravings were gone...life was good. Is this medicine stronger? Perhaps it takes a couple of days for it to take over or maybe the use of suboxone for so long is not mixing well....just not sure. I am hoping someone has experience with switching that will help me answer these questions because this not good for this addict. If this continues I plan to call my subdoc Monday and let him know. I have been honest with him since day one and I take my recovery very seriously. Hope things get back to normal soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:27 am 
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The issue is you are no longer getting naloxone with your bupe. It could be you were getting more naloxone into your system with suboxone than most others. Perhaps your body metabolizes it in a way to make it more effective??

I don't know this is true but I've always suspected naloxone can block the euphoria effects of bupe in some people. The mfg of subs [with our govts support] claims only a minimal amount of naloxone gets into your system if you take it sublingualy. However, it only takes a little bit of bupe to work on us so why would naloxone be different. This is a very political drug meant to... not only help addicts... but to also control them. The US govt doesn't like it's citizens getting high on drugs mainly because of the adverse effects on others. They are not so much concerned about what can happen to you while your high... but are very worried about what can happen to them. Moving on...

The bottom line is you are no longer getting naloxone with your bupe and your body recognizes that fact. I doubt you will be getting the high for very much longer. Please go to the following for info on Naloxone

http://www.drugs.com/mmx/naloxone-hydrochloride.html

Here is mainly what you want to know:

Naloxone Mechanism of action/Effect:

The precise mechanism by which naloxone reverses most of the effects of opioid analgesics has not been fully determined. It has been proposed that there are multiple subtypes of opioid receptors within the central nervous system (CNS), each mediating different therapeutic and/or side effects of opioid drugs. At least two of these types of receptors (mu and kappa) mediate analgesia as well as side effects. A third type of receptor (sigma) may not mediate analgesia; actions at this receptor may produce the subjective and psychotomimetic effects characteristic of opioids with mixed agonist/antagonist activity (i.e., butorphanol, nalbuphine, and pentazocine). Naloxone apparently displaces previously administered opioid analgesics from all of these types of receptors and competitively inhibits their actions {01}. Antagonism of opioid actions may precipitate withdrawal symptoms in patients who are physically dependent on opioid drugs (except for buprenorphine). Naloxone has no opioid agonist activity of its own


Here is a discussion of generic subutex at drugs.com and pharmer.org

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-dru ... 54641.html
http://www.pharmer.org/forum/discussion ... tex-roxane

You can post at those if someone has experience yet with a switchover

There is current research going on in France with no conclusions yet:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00723697

Sorry but one more personal comment... I believe naloxone is a cruel drug forced onto us under the guise it will keep needle users from shooting up bupe. That may or may not be true? What is true [if you read the above] is they don't know exactly what naloxone does to the brain receptors other than inducing horrible withdrawls if you have too much of it in your system at the same time as an opiate agonist. Really no different than the effects anabuse has to an alcohol drinker.

The difference [as I see it] is an alcoholic makes a choice to take anabuse knowing full well in advance what will happen if he drinks. Informed addicts know the same about naloxone but most of us have no choice [if we want bupe therapy] because it is manufactured into suboxone. I'm not a needle user either but the govt dr who treats me thru the VA will not prescribe subutex... only subs/nalaxone. That is politics.

One final note... some subs users claim you can spit after absorbing the bupe under your tongue and you won't get any naloxone into your body. I don't believe that for a second.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:38 pm 
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I do believe the Naloxone does have more of an effect on people than Doctors realize. When I switched to Subutex from Suboxone I was high as a kite for about a week or so and when I would switch back it seemed like I would have to take more Suboxone to feel the same as the dose of Subutex. I am currently on generic Buprenorphine and I prefer it over the name brands. Plus it's cheaper :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:40 pm 
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Thank you for taking the time to respond with all that valuable information. I appreciate it very much. The funny thing is you might be right because I would never swallow and spit out the excess salavia and pit when taking my suboxone. I agree it definitely is cheaper and I have never been an IV drug user so this will not be an issue. I will take some time to read some of the other sites you have linked. Thanks FAEKED for letting me know your reaction only lasted a week...that makes me feel better. I guess just another part of the journey...I am glad my doctor trust me enough to give me subutex as I have ready plenty of post where their docs refuse to put them on it. I will keep you posted on how things progress....today still out there.......this too shall pass I hope....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:15 pm 
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I do not think that the Naloxone has anything to do with it. It MAY be the absorbtion of the generic bupe is much greater (better) than the Suboxone (and subutex too, I don't know). I believe that this was discussed somwhere in the past on the forum and (please correct me if I am wrong) I THINK that Dr. Junig or someone else had mentioned that the generic bupe may have a better absorbtion then the Suboxone.....
Actually, another user of the forum mentioned that if they were to take 8mg of the generic bupe it was equal to 12mg of Suboxone (or something along them lines)....I have NO IDEA if this is correct or not, but just thought I would bring it up. I am pretty sure that in MOST cases the Naloxone is inactive. I am not an expert. Good luck!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:11 pm 
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I would encourage people to be careful with information from Drugs.com and Pharmer.com-- I have come across a great deal of misinformation from particularly drugs.com. I have had a couple run-ins with a moderator from that site who sometimes seems to be motivated by something beyond the science of these medications-- and I will leave it at that, at least for now.

I note that the post by SuboxFreedom has a paragraph copied from the drugs.com archive, and that nformation that was writting in 1971! I went to the source of the paragraph that was copied, as the information in it sounded like something from 30 years ago... and found that one of the sources was a lancet article from the 70's, and other sources were from the 80's-- back at a time when we knew nothing about opiate receptors.

We know much more about naloxone now; we know that it is a relatively specific mu antagonist with no agonist properties. The first line of the copied paragraph in the SuboxFreedom post is simply no longer true. Yes, in 1971 we did not know the exact mechanism that naloxone blocks opiate agonists... but now we DO know the exact mechanism. This is only one of my problems with some of the sites on the internet; people can extract just the part of the story that suits their argument, and use it to an extent far beyond the context in which it was originally reported.

We also know what happens when a person takes Suboxone vs. Subutex. Buprenorphine is very lipophylic i.e. dissolvable in oil vs. water. It passes easily through lipid membranes (cell membranes are lipids, and so oil-soluble drugs pass through them more quickly than water-soluble drugs). This phenomenon is why injected fentanyl has an effect in about 20 seconds, whereas morphine has an onset time fo 10 minutes evern after IV injection.

On the other hand, naloxone is 'hydrophylic', or water soluble. It does not pass through mucous membranes, instead going down the esophagus and being absorbed in the first part of the small intestine, the duodenum. The naloxone is take to the liever where it is almost entirely destroyed by something called 'first pass metabolism;' the liver has the capacity to easily destroy all of the naloxone that reaches it, so that no naloxone makes it out the other side, to the blood leaving the liver.

When I was an anesthesiologist, it was fairly common to inject naloxone intravenously. If a patient had a narcotic-based anesthetic, sometimes a tiny sprinkle of naloxone was needed to get the person breathing again at the end of the case. There were a couple rists to giving even small doses of IV naloxone; one was that even a small IV dose could precipitate pulmonary edema by effects on pressures in the pulmonary venous circulation. Too much naloxone could result in the patient awakening in pain. Finally, naloxone is a very short-acting medication, so there was risk of 'renarcotization', where the naloxone got the person breathing, but then wore off as you waled the patient to the ICU or recovery room, causing the patient to stop breathing. Gosh, I sometimes miss those days!

The primarly point of relevance here is that naloxone is a very short-acting drug. It lasted about 15-20 minutes in small doses-- and the doses in Suboxone are also small doses. It wears off by being metabolized by the liver, and also by 'redistributing' throughout the body and becoming very diluted in the bloodstream. I also (ick) injected naloxone by accident into myself during a desperate weekend search for narcotics-- so desperate that I injected the contents of an unlabelled syringe that tasted like an opiate (I would taste the things I found to try to avoid dying of an injection of a paralyzing agent-- pretty dumb stuff).

Suboxone and Subutex are equal when taken orally. The naloxone is not going to be absorbed, because the lipid nature of cell membranes is universal. So everyone who takes Suboxone ends up swallowing naloxone, and almost everyone gets no effect from it.... but let's imagine for the sake of argument that the original writer of this thread WAS getting an effect from the naloxone... maybe it was not completely broken down at the liver. If that was the case, the person would get withdrawal symptoms from the naloxone for maybe 20 minutes-- which is how long naloxone lasts, even when INJECTED, and in much higher doses than what is found in Suboxone. There is just no way that the naloxone in Suboxone is going to have a prolonged effect in the body-- of ANYONE. And even if it did have an effect, the effect would be withdrawal.

Buprenorphine has been around for over 30 years. Yesterday I sat down with a patient who is a regular at the forum and who has an interest in chemistry; I was showing him the book by Goodman and Gillman called 'The Pharmaceutical Basis of Therapeutics'. My copy is about 20 years old, but it contains a lot of info about buprenorphine, and I recommend the book highly-- particularly a newer edition! ALL of the actions of Suboxone are from buprenorphine, as are all of the actions of Subutex. Buprenorphine has a celing effect, and when taken chronically there is no euphoria because of tolerance to its effects at the mu receptor. Period.

I have substituted a number of patients onto the generic version of Subutex-- people who have no insurance and limited financial resources. I have had one person who went a bit crazy with it, and he is geting back on track-- he had the same feeling as the writer of this thread. But I hear those types of comments all the time for many reasons. At the start of using buprenorphine, patients often feel that they are getting a buzz from taking more buprenorphine even at doses well above the ceiling effect. Some patients-- particularly younger patients in my experience-- have trouble controlling their dose of buprenorphine, or insist that they need very large doses-- an effect that is purely psychological, and that goes away if the patient can be convinced to address those cravings in the proper way.

There is a saying in medicine; when you see hoofprints, think horses, not zebras. The psychological cravings for opiates are triggered by many different things-- stress, resentments, self-pity, boredom-- and thinking that maybe the med you are taking will get you high. People who attend AA are familiar with the common reports by alcoholics that they will feel drunk from a 'virgin' drink. I think that the likely explanation is the usual psychological stuff that us addicts will always be susceptible to.

I don't know of any difference in absorption, but I suppose that could be an issue if the tab isn't dissoving completely and pieces are swallowed. But once the buprenorphine is in solution in the saliva, I would think that it would all get absorbed at about the same rate.

My two cents worth...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Thanks subdoc for taking time to respond to my concerns and give me your perspective. You may be absolutely correct that this is psychological......I am 45 years old....sober from alcohol for almost 4 years and was on suboxone for 8 months. I can honestly say I never took more of my suboxone then prescribed...1 because my doctor would do pill counts and 2 this is the first narcotic that I have followed the prescription as prescribed......no cravings..no er visits...urgent care visits....absolutely amazing. Just an fyi I have done the same with my new script of generic subutex. I was only sharing what I actually was feeling..but as I recall I think I felt the same way my first few days on suboxone. I was only curiouis and if I continue to feel this way in a week I will request to go back to suboxone...despite cost. My recovery is important to me and if I am psychologically feeling this way I don't want that...I may be one of a thousand in this regard but I will not let it affect this med that has given me my life back. I appreciate all the support from this site and feel blessed that Dr.J responded to my concerns........I appreciate the feedback and will continue to live my life free of opiates by continuing my recovery with subutex and I can be a true father to my children by being NORMAL and there when they need me....freedom.......freedom to chose. Thanks..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Thanks doc for updating [and setting straight] the info I found on Drugs.com for Reraise. It's always good to get the most current info from an MD who is obviously a true expert in his field. Correct and up-to-date knowledge is so important to us... especially to those of us with a preference for one thing over another.

I know I have a personal bias against suboxone mainly because I was maintained on Methadone for so many years.... and it worked for me. If I wasn't such a tightwad and was up for "starting from scratch" again with takehomes, counseling, etc... I'd probably go back to it. On the other side... I never would have been motivated [or able to tolerate] a taper so low while on meth. So I suppose that is good thing for me regarding subs.

Anyway... the main thing of importance is the issue in this thread has been properly addressed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Hi ReRaise,
I don't think I can give you any better advice then you have recieved from the Good Doc himself and others above.
I would however like to ask you to keep us updated on your progress. I know I ( and alot of others) are intrested in your recovery. I also got sober from alcohol some time ago and have been on Suboxone for 11 mos. so our timing is similar and I may someday look into subutex as my next step in recovery. I will let the Dr.s decide for sure but with your help I will be armed with some info as to what to expect with the tranistion from suboxone to Subutex...
Thanks for your post and sharing your experience it is valuable info.

-- Dr. "j" if you are still following this thread thanks again for all you do for the addiction community and for giving us a place to share and exchange are thoughts!!

Best of luck to All
TW


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:14 pm 
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I just wanted to update those of you following this thread that all is back to normal. I think it may have been psychological or just an adjustment without the naloxone...not sure but all seems to back to where I was in my choice of recovery. I am glad financially that this is because the generic subutex will really save me some money each month. I am grateful thatthis working out andI can continue to carry on my life with no cravings, withdrawl and depression...It's amazing what the last 9 months have been like......no major pain, depression or feelings of no self worth. I must continue the journey.......


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Thanks, ReRaise for the update. It's really good to hear that you're feeling fine. I plan on asking my doctor about the generic version when I see him next.

I'm thankful that you posted this.

Melissa


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 Post subject: generic subutex
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:50 pm 
if I ever end up without insurance, I would surely ask/beg my Sub doctor to prescribe generic Subutex. Hopefully by then, after years of succussful treatment, he would trust me enough to do it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Excuse my language, but "mayday" monday is not only always a bitch for me. But today and the past few days, I have been so full of hate and rage that I tried tussin dm yesterday just to try to get that lovely Vercet or feeling www.erowid.com describes in detail about this risky and dangerous drug. I held my 8mg suboxone off just to be safe, necked half the bottle and to most people's response, they said be prepared to puke away. Well 1st I didn't puke at all. It came in waves of warmth, a nice cozy feeling, comfortably numb feeling, I took two more little cups full and got a bit higher but not much. Then I became calm and relaxed. My mom came home from church and luckily didn't notice something is up. I suddenly felt the need to nap. So I did and slept great and had nice dreams"which I dont remember". Anyway I was half awake when my Mom was making supper, by the way an hour before I went to nap I took my 8mg suboxone and felt even better because the dm wasn't masking the minor wd's I began feeling since I missed my sub that morning.

I just read subox docs post on here, all about how ignorant doctors etc boo and hiss at suboxone. I am so pissed right now, I am so fed up with me/us junkies being treated like pos worthless cows. Even my roomate at detox this month said"why dont you just get off subs and benzo's?" I said because, straight up and simple, if I dont have these meds I guarantee I will COMMIT SUICIDE. I have been suicidal since 14 and now I'm 39 years way too old. I just got done having a procedure done at a hospital 3 1/2 hours from us. ITs worth drive, because my colon specialist is there"way too long a story to get into". Anyway, even they are getting intolerant of addicts these days. Just because some dumb kid got into mommie and daddies med cabinet and gulped down 1,000mg of oxycontin etc, stuff like this just pisses me off. 1st off, this country is so overpopulated, who cares, one lost life, yea the hell the parents etc go through etc. BUT why dont parents etc LOCK THAT STUFF UP.

I know the world is about to end, things are looking gloomier and sadder everyday, with no hope in sight. Well the more negative stuff against opiate addicts like me, the more I realize, someday sooner than I think, I will let the ignorant dea or someone clean me up with a sponge after I wrap my pos car around a big tree at 100mph, if they can find my wallet. I have just had it with being treated like crap. I pre register at the hospital far from me on the phone and they start like this. "ok C let's go through your medical history, we have first off, you are a drug addict, so no opiates for pain?" I said well yea in a pisssed off tone" I hate when I'm raged and can't think what to say until its too late. What I wanted to say was, what the heck, if that's the first thing off the bat, why dont you try to edit my info and say "call me Burroughs" junkie and gay man, both hated parts of society. Might as well just put "whacked out worthless junkie" instead.

I will killmyself before I will Ever have any surgery done at the pos main hospital which is totally seperate from the building I was in for detox off methadone to suboxone. I know why we have our "own building" because I was treated like such a piece of crap by this fat ugly bitch of a nurse in 2006 after spending 4th of march in the ER on my birthday of all things. Turned out I had to be opened up again because scar tissue wrapped itself so tight round part of my small intestines and hung up, causing total blockage. I barely was able to open my presents or enjoy them after trying to take my suboxone when I was on it the first time. I puked while that was under my tongue and of course in the toilet went a precious suboxone. After surgery, I woke up as they were getting me in the recovery room and I dry heaved for some reason.

They moved me from one bed to the other and just plopped me down and I started shakeing so bad in pain and wide awake. The stupid surgeon who doesn't know shit about addiction"only my sub doctor could do anything 4 pain" as I later found out on my chart. Still he was nice enough to say"oh I'll give him a benzo" I thought great, be4 I could say anything"I could barely talk anyway so I was F,ed", dumb ignorant nurse as I'll callher: he can't have that, he's on suboxone right out loud, doctor: well he can't just sit there shakeing or his stitches will come open etc. Dumb nurse, just sat there like an idiot and sniffling every 10 seconds like she had "cocaine sniffles syndrome", I wanted so bad to take a baseball bat and bash her nose in and say, either blow your nose you lazy discriminating bitch or quit treating me like a pos addict when you have cocaine sniffles syndrome. Long story short, the doctor just did a portable x ray. the dumb nurses, picked me up and plopped me on the hard x ray board, took x ray and then lifted me up again and plopped me down after doc yanked the board out. Now I wanted to kill, but was screwed, I said why am I in such pain, what am I even getting? The bitch said"you dont need to know what you're getting, your getting something" and then before I was shoved up to my room the bitch said"well let me destroy these drugs". If I was able to yell, I would have called her every vulgar word in the book and made a terrorist threat to the hospital if they didn't FIRE THIS BITCH. BY the way if it wasn't for a neighbor of ours down the block who works as a nurse in the rooms where I was just being put into, knowing us, I bet it wouldn't have taken 3 hours to get my pain bearable. I probably would have died in shock before my sub doctor did anything about it. Well maybe that would have been better because at least"the battles in my life ongoing wouldhave ended then!!!!!".

I am so raged now that even my bro talked on the phone w/me last night and said, gosh you are as bad if not worse than right before you started using opiates for depression. I said you know what, you are right and I dont believe my sub doctor saying that the methadone and suboxone fighting each other is causing this. That upping my 12mg dose of suboxone at this point would not help my mood at all which I dont believe. I'm on such a low dose now that I have to take the 8mg pill at 9am when I'm used to taking it and save the other half of an 8mg"4mg" to just keep me outta wd's around 4 or 5pm. I think I'm being played, just like the s.o.s. playas at the methadone clinic. Ever since I got my stupid unprofessional counselor at the methadone clinic pissed at me"when we used to meet once weekly", she got me so pissed that I ignored her for months and only gave a monthly followup. The last straw came a month or so ago when I made appt to see the DOCTOR at this clinic to see why the hell he did NOT have my then "ex suboxone docs" ekg on me with the word stating the methadone was causing an irregular or some long word starting with D to technically describe why I was having this strange heart skip beat.

I saw the doc at the clinic, this one morning "the bitch I hated was right there" she just sat there to left of the sign in person, suddenly she said "why are you here to see the doc today to me?" I said for "a followup and personal", she knew I was pissed because suddenly she started typing away like crazy on the keyboard of the server she was on. I thought"you dirty sneaky turd". I think she was deleting or covering up her corrupt act of trying to lower me from 150mg to 60mg of methadone, because that thanksgiving, out of revenge I abused my take homes to get high a bit, when I came in too early to make nothing of it and just say I abused my take homes. She suddenly said "ok now you get no privilages, you only get a take home on sundays or when we are closed, and by the way you are now suddenly being put on 60mg from 150". I knew only the doctor could do that so I walked right back to dosing window where luckily this nice man signed me in and I said, "i dont know what "bitch" is doing but she said I'm being put down to 60 from 150. He said well there's nothing here that indicates that. HA FUCKING HA, it backfired on her and I dosed 150. As I walked back to the front ignoring her, she said"what happened? I said, duh they dosed me, she said what? 150mg, she: and YOU TOOK IT?, me:YEP, suddenly she said, DAMN. I was a week past payment due. SO that monday after seeing the doctor there and finding out the crap they were putting me through, that was my wake up call that not only was methadone causing me all these problems with health, but it was time to walk outta that place. Monday I paid $60x2, I kept dosing that week, because I'm not the type of obsessed advocate for opiates and not only willing to protest bigtime as you can see already against Ill treatment of addicts, but I am not the type of "Burroughs" who will waste any money or meds. So I stayed until I dosed on Saturday after paying up my dues till coming monday, got my last take home for sunday that I would ever take.

That sunday a month ago, my mom came home from church as usual and I had already burnt the bottle to destroy my personal info on the label after dosing at 9:30am, but I told my Mom, I'm dumping CT off 150mg"everyone in my family knows how strong willed I am". I said "i'm Not going back there again and they aren't getting one penny from me again, I will NOT show up monday and dont answer the phone, because if that stupid bitch etc, they playin with me and I'm gonna scare the shit outta them, when they find out I dumped right off 150mg. That monday I was starting to wd uncomfortably but the benzo's I'm prescribed only frommy psych doctor for manic depression and mainly ptsd, helped for a while. I then called up my old suboxone doctor and his nurse called back in 10 mins only and said I was to immediately go into detox at the building I was in. I even scared my sub doc too, which I didn't mean to. I was at the point where i didn't care if I die of heart attack etc, I wanted to die and feel that way today because I'm so sick of this pathetic country's "hitler" like treatment of us addicts.

In the end I stabilized on 4mg subox 2x daily, I felt delusional the first few days outta detox but I liked that feeling because at least I was calm and had some energy. But for some strange reason, after I got back from the good hospital and we got home just in time before Chicagolands hellride rush hour. We ate out and just went to bed when we got home. I had to go for an asessment too far for me, for those typical boring 4 week aftercare groups m-f 9am to 3pm. My suboxone doctor for some reason was strict about me going there or "you can go right back to your clinic", I the night of my discharge said "oh no I'll go back to drinking again before I'll go back on methadone" he said, all I request is this, so I went for the asessment that saturday and after all said and done, I had to decline it because of our finances. No we are not rich sadly and I've got so much stress to deal with in life now as it is that I suddenly became in this F it mood. I gave the papers to my sub docs nurse to prove I went there. Saw my sub doc last week and strangely he didn't ask anything about the program or even bring it up or if I"m going to NA or AA meetings. My gifted special senses were telling me, "oh no I think I'm being played with, these mind games again", that's when my sub doc said what I said earlier about why I'm so raged lately and that I need to see my psychiatrist for a "mood stabilizer" because raising my sub dose would not help at this time because methadone will take another 2 months at least to get outta my pores.

Strangely he said nothing about my recent chest x ray even though I said I"m still coughing up phlem off and on everyday, I dont know, but my senses are telling me "things are only going to get worse for me now". I'm at the point in my life, with no significant other to comfort me, can't trust a soul out there, that I just wish I could just die and be done with life. I already described in detail to my brother what I want scribed on my headstone when "the battles in life have finally ended" and also a professionally ingraved image(private), that will detail in one picture what hell I been through.

Sorry everyone for such gloom, if you could even read all it, but I see no hope anymore
I'm worn down and just dont care anymore. :(


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:31 pm 
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One Month or More
One Month or More

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:51 pm
Posts: 30
Sorry I am so crazy today, I forgot to start the topic on topic of "why my doc switched me from suboxone to subutex"
Well my suboxone doctor is also my family doctor, has been since I was 6 years old so he knows us well. He also is an older and wise doctor and he told me, I knew anyway that he has seen every bit of BS an addict can throw his way. He tends to be on the strict or tough but nice side. I've subtly discussed with him many times back when I was on suboxone the 1st time about how I felt better in my very 1st detox when they gave me subutex. Right away he said, no we wont even go there, 99% of my patients on subs do just fine on suboxone, I know what you are getting at and I'm not going to just"put you on another opiate", you know you can shoot subutex very easy dont you? I said yes I know but I hate needles and even the best nurse at hospital can't find my viens easily, that's why I never have done Heroin and never would ever try to findmy own viens. I'd probly passout I would get so freaked. He wouldn't take anything as legit and then said, they only and I am not able to give subutex to you, they only give it to patients who are in detox so they can watch to make sure they do it under tongue and not try to make a line and snort it too.
I keep getting this hint from my special senses that if I were on subutex, I would do alot better. My sub doctor even said, there is only 1% of my patients who get a strange reaction to suboxone"I wont tell you what it is" but they would also get it from subutex too, so just forget about getting high and keeep taking your suboxone like you're supposed to.

That was in 06 when I decided to try methadone later that summer. Well I hope I haven't caused a debate here, I've tried to abide by posting rules and hope I didn't mess up, I just am getting raged more each day. Luckily I see both my sub doctor and my psychiatrist, wish me luck everyone.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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