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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:58 pm 
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In Alaska, this 14 year old girl was trying heroin for the first time, and overdosed. The medic who shot her up decided to give her Suboxone to try to bring her back and it killed her. The heroin damaged her brain and liver and the Suboxone did her in. Terrible, terrible..... very sad.

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/12/29/1 ... orylink=fb


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:55 pm 
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You might wan't to read the article again, I don't even know where you came up with half of what you said. Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:14 pm 
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For clarification purposes, this is from the article:

Quote:
Warner (Sean Warner, 26, [the boyfriend]faces a drug-related felony and other crimes related to the overdose) was apparently afraid police would find drugs at the house and would not call. He instead put a tablet of Suboxone -- a heroin substitute used to treat addicts -- under Dolstad's tongue, and the unconscious girl began convulsing, according to the charging document. Warner then called 911 about 1:30 p.m., the charges say.


So it was not a medic who gave her the suboxone, it was her stupid ass boyfriend (who now is facing charges related to her death).

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:35 pm 
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It looks like she died from having to be taken off of life support due to brain damage. I am not a Dr.,but I highly doubt the Suboxone caused her to die. If anything, maybe she convulsed because the bup. replaced the heroin, and this was enough to help with the central nervous system, which was severly depressed by the heroin. It is a tragic story, thats for sure. Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Of course, that is correct. The buprenorphine overload was what made her convulse, it was too much. He thought he was going to reverse the effects of the heroin, but it didn't work, it was too late. And the boyfriend had been a medic in the Army and he'd been in Afghanistan. Obviously he didn't know what he was doing. A tragic story.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:47 pm 
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I am a methadone client and don't really know the ropes of suboxone except not to take it while on methadone learned the hard way in fact OMG is that what happened????? Cause she had the heroin in her system and put the bupe with it she died from the mixture???? It threw me into Precip Withd's and it was real bad but could someone die from that ?????

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:52 pm 
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I really doubt it. This girl had already done heroin, amphets, and coke; she was brain damaged and had liver damage from just the heroin. The Bupe is probably what finished her off; it was not from w/d I do not think, but just the entire combination of everything she had done, all of those drugs. So young and stupid.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Its a sad story all the way around......
and part of the reason suboxone has so much stigma or judgement surronding it,,,,,
is the stories like this one the general public reads, and never learns any more about
it, except whatever the news or paper or internet 'claims' to be fact.

and of course the saddest part is losing another life to drugs in general.

I read somewher recently that in the U.S. there are on average,

96 people every week that die just from opiate overdose or derect relation of opiate abuse....

96 every week........

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:04 pm 
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You know sometimes a little bit of knowledge is worse than none at all sometimes. Do U think the panic along with the medic part he was thinking bupe has/had some of that Naxolene (sp????) stuff in it thinking he could reverse the OD? Not that being any justification or crutch to lean on at all. I just can't imagine what he was thinking or not thinking etc... I feel terrible. I believe we all have to be responsible for our part we play or consent to play in. But she was 14 and there was no right to take her consent to shoot dope in her veins. Sometimes It takes me a while to get a picture of such in my head because I live in a little town in the country/mountains where the 14 year olds get in trouble for being caught on the phone after 9 pm at night. Well I am sure there are some having sex etc...but I have never met a fourteen year old drug addict from where I live so I just can not imagine that child being brave enough (for the lack of a better word) to have a needle put in her veins with a drug in it. OMG what a sad story. :(

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:11 pm 
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AGREED,,,,,finallyachance.......

Im in a small rural community too.....the teenagers here get drunk and shoot guns for fun!!! lol

when Iwas 14 I dont think I was smoking pot even, I think I was 15 when I first did that........

makes you wonder a whole lotta questions huh??????????

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:42 am 
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I'm sorry, but as a parent to a 10-year old little girl, I GOT to ask this question.....

WHERE IN THE HELL WERE THE GIRL'S PARENTS TO ALLOW HER TO GO OFF WITH A 26-YEAR OLD [s]GROWN[/s]-ASS MAN???!?!?!?!?

This doesn't make ANY damn sense to me. I will..repeat WILL know what the hell my child(ren) are doing at ALL times. Not just my daughter...but my sons as well, (they are only 6 and 7 right now.

And when my wife has the new baby in March 2012, I'll know what the hell SHE is doing as well, when she gets old enough.

I gotta say, this was NOT just the girls fault, it wasn't the dopehead boyfriends fault...the PARENTS are to blame for this too, as harsh as that may sound...they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN what their daughter was doing and WHO she was doing it with.

RAISING A CHILD BEGINS AT HOME, and IT BEGINS AT AN EARLY AGE!!!!!!!!


(I am editing this for clarification...the reference to the boyfriend as a "dopehead" isn't meant as a derogatory term for ANYONE here who has been down that path...far as I know, I've seen no one here who has willingly killed someone by injecting them with heroin. We all did what we did to OURSELVES..I did my D.O.C and I did it to ME..I didn't force someone else to do it or inject anyone, so I hope no one takes offense to that term. I was a dope addict too...but in my mind, this guy is a lower form, as he wasn't happy just screwing with his own life, he had to forcibly bring someone else to his level with him.)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:37 am 
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Bejeezus. How did this manage to turn into "14 year old girl killed by Suboxone" ?

It was another tragic heroin overdose. And the fact Suboxone brought on convulsions just shows the heroin had already basically killed her. Paramedics inject overdoses with Naloxone to precipitate withdrawal. She would have convulsed even worse had that happened.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:44 am 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Bejeezus. How did this manage to turn into "14 year old girl killed by Suboxone" ?

It was another tragic heroin overdose. And the fact Suboxone brought on convulsions just shows the heroin had already basically killed her. Paramedics inject overdoses with Naloxone to precipitate withdrawal. She would have convulsed even worse had that happened.


What are we going to do when some legal, overpaid, underworked politician decides to try and ban our life-saving treatment option because this type of media frenzy brings such negativity toward what has helped so many people?

I find it very disturbing that the {lack of common sense} read:ignorance ; of the effects of this wonderful drug and what CAN do for people if it's properly used.

This reminds me of the story I read (couple weeks) where a woman gave some guy some kind of injection in his goob (silicone). These silicon parties are stupidity in the worst form, letting someone inject ANYTHING in my nether regions would only be done with the use of a blunt object, per se, a hammer, and me being VERY unconscious. But this guy who did this to the girl....they should also do some tests on her for sexual interactions and put charges on him for rape as well if it shows he touched her (which you KNOW probably is what led him to wanting her to get high on heroin to begin with...)


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 Post subject: not suboxone
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:52 pm 
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She was found the next morning lying in her vomit. So she nodded off and drowned, A.B.C.-CPR should have been performed instead, the guy gave her suboxone. If the prime cause was heroin, she would have dropped directly after administration, not the next day. Narcan won't help in this situation because the lungs were filled with vomit or the airway was blocked. Which is why convulsions were present, as opposed to an immediate overdose which could be reversed. The story indicates no presence of Suboxone in the victims system, so the relevent fact is again a lack of education. And that along with panic is how these tragic stories occur,,, sad.


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 Post subject: Wow
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:38 pm 
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A pill of Bupe given to someone who is NOT Opiate tolerant can easily kill someone..remember that Bupe is 30-40 times stronger than morphine...it's affinity is so high that narcan does not reverse it's effect


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:17 pm 
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[quote="jonathanm1978"]I'm sorry, but as a parent to a 10-year old little girl, I GOT to ask this question.....

WHERE IN THE [b]HELL[/b] WERE THE GIRL'S PARENTS TO ALLOW HER TO GO OFF WITH A 26-YEAR OLD [b][u][s]GROWN[/s]-ASS MAN[/b][/u]???!?!?!?!?

This doesn't make ANY damn sense to me. I will..repeat [b][u]WILL[/u][/b] know what the hell my child[b](ren)[/b] are doing at ALL times. Not just my daughter...but my sons as well, (they are only 6 and 7 right now.

And when my wife has the new baby in March 2012, I'll know what the hell [b]SHE[/b] is doing as well, when she gets old enough.

I gotta say, this was NOT just the girls fault, it wasn't the dopehead boyfriends fault...the PARENTS are to blame for this too, as harsh as that may sound...they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN what their daughter was doing and WHO she was doing it with.

RAISING A CHILD BEGINS AT HOME, and IT BEGINS AT AN EARLY AGE!!!!!!!!

(I am editing this for clarification...the reference to the boyfriend as a "dopehead" isn't meant as a derogatory term for ANYONE here who has been down that path...far as I know, I've seen no one here who has willingly killed someone by injecting them with heroin. We all did what we did to OURSELVES..I did my D.O.C and I did it to ME..I didn't force someone else to do it or inject anyone, so I hope no one takes offense to that term. I was a dope addict too...but in my mind, this guy is a lower form, as he wasn't happy just screwing with his own life, he had to forcibly bring someone else to his level with him.)[/quote]


First I have to say I totaly agree with you, the parents should have known where, with whom, and what she was doing. They are just as much to blam. I am the mother of two and I made sure I always DRILLED them about there friends, where they were going etc. I also made it a point to meet the parents of these kids. That being said, I have an answer to you first question...

Where were the parents? Well if she had parents like many of us had they were at their own party. They sometimes partied with you, and then again they just did not care where you were as long as you were not at home bothering them. It is a sad fact but it is the truth. When kids like that don't get the attention at home they find it else where and they find the people that will give them attention.... at whatever cost. sadly this cost her, her life.

when I read that story it brought me back to a time when I was just about her age and I had almost O.D. on alcohol, speed, and weed. I woke up in a bathroom with this guy telling me to make myself puke or he would do it for me. Then he said to get my ass out and never come back.
we had been drinking, smoking and snorting so much I can't belive I am here today.
Where was my parents? I don't know, and they did not know where I was.
I'm proud I was not that kind of a parent to my kids and that my kids have yet to try drugs.


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 Post subject: wow
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:43 am 
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Such a sad story.

Can't blame the parents without more info. How many of us told our parents we were walking to a friends house and get picked up around the corner to go party? We just don't know enough to place blame here, but ultimately the blame is on the girl for allowing herself to be injected on top of all the other drugs.

Correlation is not causation. They will likely never be able to determine which drug actually killed her. There is no proof that the suboxone caused the convulsions. Might have happened without the suboxone. Maybe just sitting her up caused the convulsions.

Easy to jump to conclusions but they're usually wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: wow
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:21 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
Such a sad story.

Can't blame the parents without more info. How many of us told our parents we were walking to a friends house and get picked up around the corner to go party? We just don't know enough to place blame here, but ultimately the blame is on the girl for allowing herself to be injected on top of all the other drugs.

Correlation is not causation. They will likely never be able to determine which drug actually killed her. There is no proof that the suboxone caused the convulsions. Might have happened without the suboxone. Maybe just sitting her up caused the convulsions.

Easy to jump to conclusions but they're usually wrong.


Oh, but the parents ARE to blame..without much further info at all. I'm sorry, but I'm the parent who KNOWS if my child leaves this house, they will be where they said they are going to be..because I know the people who will be picking her up, or who she'll be leaving with. If she's dropped off somewhere, I know the house she's going to be at, and I know the neighborhood she'll be in. Until WAY on up in years, my daughter only visits other family, and spends the night with a 1st cousin of hers..

And UNLIKE some parents, I can TELL when my daughter tells me a lie.

There's a HUGE difference between parents that care, and parents who feel like their kids are in the way. THOSE kids are usually the ones who have the time and access to drugs and parties...but there's NO way that me and my wife go off partying when my kids spend the night with other family.

If my daughter said she was walking to a friends house, I'd quickly respond "hell no you're not, what FRIENDS house is it?"...and if I DID by some oddball chance approve, then I'd tell her to get her happy ass in the truck and I'd take her.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't hold up for responsible parents who actually CARE about their kids. You can call me one of those "not MY child" parents if you want, but I'll be a part of my kids' lives until the day the set-out on their own...and I fully intend to still be a part of their lives..because I CARE. I won't watch my kids start down the paths that I went down in my twenties...


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 Post subject: Re -Wow
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:51 am 
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Suggest you read the story, Heroin Coke and othe drugs were in victims system but not bup.
Just a guess, but circulation [lack of]may have made any intake poor.
Seems sub has just got to be the villian here. If it was killing people, they wouldn't give drug addict's, 600mg to take home every month.
The only deaths from sub that I could find, was when it's mixed with booze and benzo's or barbs.
When I shot bup- temgesic, on top of another opiate, it lessened the narcotic effect to zero, in a slap.


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 Post subject: Re: wow
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:52 pm 
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[quote="jonathanm1978"][quote="Jimmy"]Such a sad story.

Can't blame the parents without more info. How many of us told our parents we were walking to a friends house and get picked up around the corner to go party? We just don't know enough to place blame here, but ultimately the blame is on the girl for allowing herself to be injected on top of all the other drugs.

Correlation is not causation. They will likely never be able to determine which drug actually killed her. There is no proof that the suboxone caused the convulsions. Might have happened without the suboxone. Maybe just sitting her up caused the convulsions.

Easy to jump to conclusions but they're usually wrong.[/quote]

Oh, but the parents ARE to blame..without much further info at all. I'm sorry, but I'm the parent who KNOWS if my child leaves this house, they will be where they said they are going to be..because I know the people who will be picking her up, or who she'll be leaving with. If she's dropped off somewhere, I know the house she's going to be at, and I know the neighborhood she'll be in. Until WAY on up in years, my daughter only visits other family, and spends the night with a 1st cousin of hers..

And UNLIKE some parents, I can TELL when my daughter tells me a lie.

There's a HUGE difference between parents that care, and parents who feel like their kids are in the way. THOSE kids are usually the ones who have the time and access to drugs and parties...but there's NO way that me and my wife go off partying when my kids spend the night with other family.

If my daughter said she was walking to a friends house, I'd quickly respond "hell no you're not, what FRIENDS house is it?"...and if I DID by some oddball chance approve, then I'd tell her to get her happy ass in the truck and I'd take her.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't hold up for responsible parents who actually CARE about their kids. You can call me one of those "not MY child" parents if you want, but I'll be a part of my kids' lives until the day the set-out on their own...and I fully intend to still be a part of their lives..because I CARE. I won't watch my kids start down the paths that I went down in my twenties...[/quote]

THANK YOU AGAIN ="jonathanm1978,

I could not have said it better if I had said it verbatem.
I too was a kid that partied and had parents that did not care. etc, etc. and when I became a parent I was going to make sure I would not be a parent like that... WHY because I care about my kids.

So I made sure I knew where they were. I made sure I knew who there frinds where and I talked to them about what drugs and drinking can do to you.

I am proud to say I have two healthy kids who survived being teens:) and yes I feel that I had something to do with that.
LOL, so Jimmy would you say that I don't. If that girls parents did not have anything to do with her faults then I have nothing to do with my kids acomplashments.
What were they doing sneaking off and being good kids behind my back and doing their home work without me knowing it. I just had nothing to do with anything.
I for one know that kids lie to their parents, and sneak out and all that other stuff that you can talk about.... I wrote the book on it. I was one of those kids. But as parents it is our jobs to KNOW OUR KIDS AND TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES. So we know when they are giving us a line of B.S.

SORRY JIMMY I DON'T BUY IT.


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