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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:03 pm 
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It all started like everybody else. Back in highschool trying vikes and percs with no cares in the world. Before you know it your hooked on them. Then you meet oxy's and they're more fun but they cost too much. Anyways eventually turned to H, ended up IV'ing fortunately for not that long before I looked at myself and didn't like who I become. I was very fortunate to quit drugs before I got into any kind of legal trouble. I did have a bad habit, oxy's I was doing anywhere between 160-400mg a day depending on what I could get my hands on, and H well not as much money but up to a G a day.

Anyways none of that matters now. After about a 3 year habit off and on going away to college, getting clean in the summer and going back I then got rehooked and moved back home. I then came to suboxone. And let me tell you it really is truly a wonder drug ONLY to keep you normal THEN. It's done great things for me. In the time I've been on it I've graduated college almost with honors (3.48gpa), got myself a pretty damn good job, and last year I just bought my own condo. I drive a nice car paid for and if you look at me you'd say he's doing well.

Inside I'm so completely trapped and miserable. I've sublingually handcuffed for coming on 6 years now. I absolutely hate who I've become. I'm just a shell of who I once was. I'm constantly tired and uninteresting. I get depressed typing this but don't know what to do. I so badly want to quit, I can't believe I let myself stay on this drug this long. I constantly just feel like out of it, hard to think, hard to focus, hard to create an interesting conversation. I don't go out on the weekdays I work, come home and lay in bed until I go to work the next day. Weekends consist of me sleeping in until I go out at night at which I almost always need to take an Adderall just to have the energy to be up and out all night and somewhat have fun. And yes I know it's a bad mix so I don't need lectures.

Anyways, I'm to the point now where I can't even date because I've become so ashamed of needing this medicine to function. The last 3 years have been nothing but 1-2 month relationships to where I self destruct when things get close because I can't face who I've become. It's not just the suboxone. To add to that I am also on wellbutrin, trazodone and nuerontin. I also drink 4 or so drinks nightly. And the reason for all that was when I was still living under my parents roof they loved sending me to the dr thinking oh he just needs medication he's depressed. Truth is I've been depressed most my life, as far back as I can remember but never wanted to be on meds. I could never ever take my own life, I just couldn't do that to the people I love but I've got to the point where I almost wished I had cancer or something so I knew the end was soon. Now I'm too the point I would much rather be severely depressed being med free because I know for certain that's got to be better than I feel now.

Bottom line is I want off all of this miserable stuff. I'm glad it saved my life and I've accomplished what I've accomplished but I'm afraid if I don't get off the stuff soon I'm never going to be normal again. I've read the horror stories of withdrawals especially being on it for as long as I have and I've researched a few options.

Has anyone ever done the rapid detox program, the one where they give you meds and you're awake or the one where you go under anesthesia and they put you in precipitated withdrawals to make it quicker? I know it's super expensive but I don't care anymore, I'll sell my condo if I have to that's how much I want off the stuff. Also, even anyone in the same situation, have you had a serious job, what to you tell your work, how do you go about even discussing that? I also have done research on ibogaine treatment but that is also very costly and requires you to come to a very low dose before doing so and I don't know how that reacts to all the other drugs I'm taking which I'd love to be off too but lucky me, other than the trazodone I've read those can have some pretty crappy W/D's too. Is there other less painful quicker options of which wouldn't require me to miss so much work? Should I try to kick my other meds before suboxone or vice versa?

As far as my suboxone use I was on the whole maintenance thing for pretty much the whole time. But I'm at least proud of myself that in the last 4 months or so I cut from 7mg to about 4mg just recently. 3mg in the AM, 1 in the PM. I just recently started to feel more depressed than usual, I'm guessing bc the extremely long life in your body it's taken this long to notice.

I know a lot of the above stuff is not needed but I'm just looking for any type of help anyone can possibly offer.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:01 pm 
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I'm sorry, but your misery is a function of your untreated addiction-- to a number of substances. The only 'problem' with buprenorphine is that if it never existed, you probably would have ended up in prison for drunk driving, or dead from overdose, years ago. Instead, buprenorphine has allowed you to function in an untreated, 'unrecovered' condition.

The usual progression of addiction leads to greater and greater consequences. With opioid agonists, that progression is faster than with alcohol or other substances. Death by overdose is now more common than death from motor vehicle accident in people under 30. Those who don't die usually have other serious consequences, including hep c and prison.

But instead of that route, you took buprenorphine. I don't know if you got it from a doctor or from the street-- but you apparently never got 'the rest of the program'-- i.e. learning to tolerate life on life's terms, without chemicals and alcohol. You are now stuck in a very miserable place; sick enough to feel miserable all the time, but protected from severe consequences other than the usual problems faced by alcoholics, such as divorce and DUI arrests.

I'm writing harshly for a couple reasons. First, because it always pisses me off a bit when buprenorphine saves a person's life, but the person ends up blaming the drug for his problems. But the other reason is because I don't think you would hear anything that WASN'T written harshly. You sound like a smart guy-- and I bet you know how to get therapists and friends to say ALL the right things that keep you in the same, miserable, using place.

Somehow, you need to realize that yes--- you are miserable. You also need to realize that your BEST thinking has brought you exactly to this place. If you had just given up years ago, taken medication, and been honest with whoever was treating you, you probably would be better-off now. But instead you kept secrets-- and those secrets kept you sick, as they say at twelve step meetings.

I know of NO way out for you other than for you to give up, accept defeat, and beg for a way out-- not so much beg out-loud, but beg from the deepest level of your soul. Buprenorphine will put opioid dependence in remission if you keep taking a therapeutic dose... but there is no medication that works in the same way for alcohol. If you somehow find a way to become very humble, and go to meeting after meeting with the attitude that you have nothing to teach, and everything to learn-- then you might turn things around.

But honestly-- speaking as someone who has been there-- if you keep trying to figure things out without help, your chances of finding happiness are not good. Get to a meeting, ignore all of the negative thoughts about the program that ALWAYS come up, and try to copy the people who look the happiest. There is a way out-- and it is easy, and very difficult, to get there.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:53 pm 
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tmatt1zero4 wrote:
It's done great things for me. In the time I've been on it I've graduated college almost with honors (3.48gpa), got myself a pretty damn good job, and last year I just bought my own condo.
[...]
Anyways, I'm to the point now where I can't even date because I've become so ashamed of needing this medicine to function.
[...]
Now I'm too the point I would much rather be severely depressed being med free because I know for certain that's got to be better than I feel now.
[...]
Bottom line is I want off all of this miserable stuff. I'm glad it saved my life and I've accomplished what I've accomplished but I'm afraid if I don't get off the stuff soon I'm never going to be normal again.

Hey, first of all, let me welcome you to the forum. You really remind me of myself, and that's a compliment, in my mind. ;) I was in much the same situation as you, in that opioids gave me the motivation to work hard in college... until I ran out of money and started spending all my time withdrawing or scoring, that is... but now that I'm off them, I'm back in uni thanks to Suboxone. So I feel you on that. I wasn't able to get a good job (that's why I'm back), but I did get a fancy degree that helps impress people, until they see how poor I am...

***

I just wanted to make a few comments on what you've written here.
1.), don't be ashamed. Would you be ashamed of needing medicine for your heart? If you met a former alcoholic who had to take pills for his liver, would you judge him harshly? I'm betting the answer is no, to both questions. You've managed to keep a deadly and almost all-powerful, all-consuming addiction in remission, and have been successful in life; there's no shame in needing opioid replacement therapy to keep that going. Medicine is medicine... and opioids are powerful; those of us who opened Pandora's Box and pulled out oxy or heroin often have to come to accept that it changed us, and that's okay.

2.) Building off that, you say you'd rather be severely depressed and med-free. I'm wondering if that's right. You might think so, but remember, "the grass is always greener on the other side"... it's a tired old aphorism, but it's true. I think you're dissatisfied now, and that's totally legit, but you're trying to find a way to feel better and have hit upon blaming your meds -- but when you're still dissatisfied, and severely depressed on top of it, I wonder if you'll think "well, at least I'm not on any meds"...! So, of course what I mean is: unless something else about you or your life changes, I don't think you'll feel any better. I think you may well feel worse.

I could be totally wrong. Often times, psychiatric meds can make someone feel "wrong" in some way even if it's very subtle, and it's natural to want to be as "clean" as possible. So if a specific med is having side effects or making you feel weird, absolutely try getting off it. But do not try to get off all of them all at once, and please think, or even go to therapy, about what is making you feel so unsatisfied with life. It could just be that you don't like being on meds, but I'd bet there are some other issues lurking under the surface. It wouldn't hurt to check, at least!

And please consider how you'd feel if a friend was on medicine for his heart or his lungs or his liver: would you want him off them just so he could be "clean"? Medicine for the brain is no different! (Unless, of course, it is having unwanted effects in and of itself.)

3.) That said, I feel you on worrying about if you can get off of the medicine and feel "normal" again. It's a rational and understandable worry. However, I would suggest trying to look at it from a different perspective: don't worry about if you're normal or not, just try to get to a place where you feel good about yourself. Look into your heart and see what, exactly, is making you feel bad, and how, exactly, you expect being off of meds to change anything. Remember: one step at a time; being on your meds for an extra day, month, year won't hurt as long as you're making progress mentally and emotionally.

4.) I'm sorry I can't give you any information about rapid detoxing. I would honestly recommend a taper, because you can't really make withdrawal and PAWS "rapid" no matter what, unfortunately. suboxdoc above is a really nice guy and very well-educated; he knows his stuff, so whatever he says, I definitely recommend considering it!

***

I wish you the best of luck; please, continue to post and keep us updated. I support you in whatever you feel you need to do. I just hope you read and consider some of what I've said (and what suboxdoc has said, of course), not because I'm super wise or anything, but just because I feel like I've been where you are, and maybe something I wrote will resonate with you and save you some trouble!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:33 am 
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Hello and welcome Tmatt,
I hate that you are in such a dark place. Im glad subs served you well in setting up a life for yourself. I understand your desire to see if, in the absence of medications, you still recognise and like yourself.
You have managed to carve a career that has provided you financial freedom but I'm wondering if you have ever nurtured you outside of how the world measures you.
At what point in ORT did you find yourself depressed?
I'm wondering if the stigma and obligation of being on ORT is most problematic or if you honestly believe it is the medication that has you in a debilitating depression.
Whatever the case I feel for you and I can appreciate that you need to act soon.
I would encourage you to talk to a professional where you can flesh out what you want from life and discover a means of actualising it.
If you are adamant you want off, then I would taper very very slowly.
Existing depression plus WD may just tip you over the edge. If you take that road you will need a lot of support.
We are here for you,
Please stay in touch :)


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