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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:35 pm 
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My husband is an alcoholic and drug addict who HAD 25 years of sobriety. He began taking Zoloft for depression/anxiety about 15 years ago. That led to him being prescribed Klonopin to "help him sleep". He went into a bad depression and found out (so I've been told) his testosterone levels were low. So, his primary doc prescribed him Andro Gel. He was taking human growth hormone before it became illegal to sell it over the Internet. He has always been thin and he wanted to get big muscles. So, he overused the Andro Gel to help him build larger muscles. He had surgery on his foot and was prescribed Percocet. Eventually, he began overusing this med ~ as many as 20 pills a day ~ and became heavily addicted. He sought treatment through Suboxone and has been on it for 6 years. The original prescribing doctor lost his license to practice in the USA due to being a pill mill. He went to another doctor for the drug and this doctor offered counseling sessions along with the drug. He didn't want to attend those so he talked his primary care doctor into prescribing the drug for him. My husband is a nurse so his PC doc gives him anything he wants. There is NO plan whatsoever to detox him from Suboxone.

So, to summarize ~ he is taking Zoloft, Klonopin, Andro Gel and Suboxone along with a HOST of other supplements intended to body build.

We are Born-Again Christians and he was in leadership in a 12-Step Celebrate Recovery Group. He had to resign after getting addicted to Percocet.

So.......my serious concerns are his behavior. He has NO interest in doing anything. He does not participate in life at all. No family outings, no holiday celebrations, no travel, no interest in having fun. He had told me "I am NOT sober and I am backslidden (from his faith) as hell!" Those were his exact words.

He also has SEVERE sleep apnea and is not very compliant with the CPAP mask. He sounds like a 747 airplane and stops breathing for alarming lengths of time.

He seems to have no desire to detox off any of the drugs. He is angry all of the time and just downright mean and nasty. He spends most of the time off work in his room (we can't sleep in the same room due to the loud snoring) sleeping or reading books.

Lastly, I am 100% convinced he has Asperger's Syndrome (high-functioning autistic).

I am thinking that my marriage will end either in his death or divorce due to the above issues. He USED to be a nice, fun person and now it is like living with a corpse. I held, and paid for, an intervention. About 8 friends came to the house for the intervention with letters describing their concerns for him. He refused to attend a medically supervised detox in an inpatient facility. He has since lost all of these friends due to his nasty behavior. So, now he has NOT ONE friend.

I think the Suboxone (and maybe all the rest of the chemicals) is the main cause of his drastic change in behavior.

I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

Thank you very much,
B. <><


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Hey Willoughby,

I deleted ur post in the other section because it was just like this one and u only need one or ppl will be posting on both and it'd be totally confusing.

First of all welcome to the forum and we're so glad u found us here, maybe we can help ya understand suboxone a little bit better. My concern about ur hubbys mood could be from the androgel. Look up the side effects, severe irritability and sadness is one of the things listed. I'm not trying to assume that cause I'm sure not a doctor, but that would be more likely cause these mood issues u mentioned. I've been on suboxone for almost four years and I've never had those side effects. Also I have no plans to come off of sub anytime soon either, so not having a detox plan isn't a bad sign or anything. Some ppl choose to take it for life. It sounds like ur husband definitely needs to do some type of counseling, why did he refuse it at his previous Dr? His Dr that he goes to now should know about all these side effects that he's been having. I'm sure there's someone here that's more familiar with some of the other medications that he's taking.

I know u mentioned that he stopped the celebrate recovery meetings, but would he be willing to go bk to just attend? I've been to celebrate recovery several times in the past and it's extremely helpful, I liked it a lot. I'm sorry u feel helpless in watching ur husband go through this. But I really don't think sub has to do with these mood issues, normally it puts u in a good place where u can start working on rebuilding ur life again since ur out of active addiction. More ppl will be along soon that may be more familiar with some of the other medications ur husband is taking. Do u know how many milligrams of suboxone he's on right now?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Hi Willoghby

I am prescribed a compounded testosterone gel as my levels are chronically low (had cancer back in 2003). And, like your husband, I was an alcoholic, and also was recently prescribe pain meds (off those 3 weeks or so now).

Now, your husband is clearly abusing the testosterone, which can cause a host of anger issues, and other antisocial behavior (I was on HGH and roids, back in the day - years and years ago, as in 25 years ago).

But, I will say, speaking for myself, nothing turned me into an introverted, antisocial, "leave me alone" person more than opiates. I just wanted people to stop calling, stop "bothering me" and just let me enjoy my opiates. And, after awhile, it increased my pre-existing depression 10-fold (as did alcohol).

That your hubby is combining opiates and test is a recipe for exactly that kind of behavior, again, speaking only from my own experience. Plus, what's just as bad, is it gives you an "I dont give a shit" attitude, which makes it even more difficult to seek help and treatment. Definitely snowballs once you get rolling.

As far as Subox, while I have only been on it for six days, I haven't had any of the antisocial behaviors or symptoms your decribing. If I had to guess, as a non-medical doctor (though, amazingly, I did manage a PhD somehow amidst all this chaos), that it's the opiates and the high levels of testosterone in his body.

Funny thing is... if he's on opiates, is he even lifting or going to the gym? Or is he just throwing the test on tp of thre opiates and sitting around, pissed off?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:33 pm 
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Hi Willoughby2005, and welcome to our forum. Wow, your situation does not sound very good. He is on a lot of drugs and it could be a combination of those or he is abusing the testosterone again.

I am similar to your husband. An alcoholic who got sober in AA back in '87. Due to some surgeries I too abused my pain meds and ended up on Suboxone in 2010. My age + taking Suboxone lessened my testosterone levels where I too take Androgel. The large difference between us is I never got into body building and don't abuse the med.

Maybe it's what tomhunter said, the Androgel again. If you read through a lot of posts here you will find that it is very rare to see depressive type behavior occur because of Suboxone use. He is most likely plain old depressed and needs another or better anti-depressant.

I am currently weaning off Effexor, which is an anti-depressant and do not feel the need to be secluded or anything other than being my usual self.

He needs to go see a doctor and tell him everything that's going on in his life before he loses his marriage and everything else. IMO, he needs his depression to be addressed. Hopefully, our good Dr. Junig will chime in on this and give you his opinion. I am just a layman who happens to be on Suboxone. Meaning, we are not professionals so it's impossible to give proper advice.

Keep at it and see if you can't convince him to seek help.

rule

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:28 pm 
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Thank you all so very much for your helpful replies.

I'm not sure how much his Sub dose is. I will try to find out.

One of the most disturbing aspects of his behavior is the rejection of his faith. He has been a Born-Again Christian since he was 25 and he is now 56. I would definitely agree that he has an "I don't give a shit" attitude about everything ~ including me and our marriage. My belief is that sin separates us from God because God cannot abide sin. And, my husband's sin is separating him from God. My spouse had a remarkable testimony of salvation and recovery and that has been stolen from him.

Although he does go to a gym to lift, he doesn't look good. He has completely lost his neck ~ something his brother remarked about to me: "What the heck is he doing? He doesn't even have a neck anymore?" And, he doesn't look cut ~ he looks puffy.

I wonder about what I have read concerning the effect of long-term Suboxone use on the Endocrine system. It is disturbing to read that this drug can wreak havoc on someone's Endocrine system after years of use. It was only supposed to be used for a short taper ~ not years and years.

I have no idea where to turn. I guess he will just have to hit his bottom again before he seeks help. I thought that holding the intervention with his closest (now lost) friends would spur him to realize he was in trouble. That was a total waste of money and time.

Being a nurse is the worst occupation he could have. He thinks he IS A DOCTOR and, basically, dictates his own care to his Primary Care physician. This is a doctor who just does whatever my husband asks. He stopped going to the doctor that required counseling sessions because that doctor was trying to wean him off. Dr. G. just gives my husband whatever he asks for. He doesn't see the unacceptable behavior because my spouse can put on an good act during an office visit. But, he can leave the office and get into a fight with two huge guys at Royal Farms because they said something he didn't like. He has become verbally abusive and even kicked in doors. If someone "wrongs" him while he is driving, I have been with him when he has pulled up beside their car and mimic shooting them with a gun.

I am seriously considering divorce, but I am the ONLY person he has. I don't even know if I feel love for him anymore, just pity.

Thanks again,
B. <><


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:52 pm 
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Hard to know what to ever say to someone considering divorce, esp when you feel they have no one else. But, the reality is, imo, he's put himself in this position, and he has no rock bottom. Moreover, his rock bottom has a trap door: his knowledge of medical issues and his GP who caters to his every whim. As long as he has that, he'll never quit, again, imo. If you are going to stick around, something to consider is talking to that doc to explain how your husband is playing him or her. But, with your husband's chemically-induced instability and multiple addictions, not sure that's a good idea.

As far as taking multiple years to get off Suboxone, that's not getting off Suboxone. That's taking multiple years to make excuses to stay on it because he's getting some kind of high off it. No one needs that much time to taper off Sub, period. That anyone does is a sign they are choosing the drug over titration, anything else is just a fancy excuse.

I do know many people gain weight on Suboxone (though I have also seen those who have lost a lot of weight). If he's not eating properly - as few addicts do - the gym isnt going to give him the results he used to get when he was clean(er). Eating, and lifting, and not doing much cardio, and sitting around on opiates is a recipe for bloat. If he's just lifting, and probably not with much intensity, you can lose muscle easily with all the other stuff he's taking, Just taking test, as you know, doesn't add muscle - you have to lift hard, and often, and correctly.

Sometimes. tough love is the way to go. You are not responsible for a grown man who has been given the chances you wrote he's been given. He's got a license to abuse drug right now, and no reason to quit. An addict can live quite happily with just themselves and maybe a spouse. It's why so many addicts isolate - they don't become more social, only less so - going out and having to suit up for that, and doing social things... all that becomes a gigantic hassle and can even make you angry if you have to leave the house for things other than work.

Anyway, again, Im not a doctor, and the above is only based on my personal experience having been to 5+ rehabs back in the day, and an alcoholic, and an opiate addict (and a roidhead).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:38 pm 
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Hi B., I'm sorry for what you are going through. It sounds incredibly painful. I would recommend Al-Anon, Nar-Anon and/or Celebrate recovery for yourself, maybe a different group than the one he was involved in. The only person you can help right now is you.
While I tend to avoid religious comments (because they're out of the scope of this forum), I will say that in my humble opinion, your husband's salvation hasn't been, and can't be stolen from him. Grace is a gift. God will still be waiting for him when he's ready to come back. So don't trouble yourself about that. You have enough to deal with.
Please get some help, support, counseling or whatever else you can find for YOU. Take a step back, take a deep breath and change the focus to you, your safety and your sanity.
I wish you the best,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:35 pm 
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I've already sent you these thoughts via PM:

There are several things to address in your husband's behavior and medications.

1) I assume your husband is on zoloft for depression. And he does sound depressed. A depressed person will not want to go out and do fun things. A depressed person can not see light at the end of the tunnel. They cannot will themselves to stop being depressed. It is possible that his zoloft has stopped working for him. It happens. He may need to switch to a different anti-depressant.

2) I am not an expert on what andro gel dose when used in excess. I'm sure that it doesn't help with his mood however.

3) Klonipin is a benzodiazepine. Over time physical dependency forms. In patients who are addicts it is likely that any benzo will cause psychological addiction. Furthermore, chronic benzo use tends to enforce the effects that the patient was trying to get rid of in the first place, panic attacks for example. It is not an easy class of drugs to detox from and can cause death from seizures if detoxing without medical supervision.

4) Suboxone is a tool that puts opiate addiction into remission for the amount of time an addict takes it. I have been on sub for a little over 4 years. During this time I have been free of cravings and withdrawal symptoms and I've slowly put my life back together. At this point I am in an online graduate program to earn a masters in addiction studies. Some people who are on suboxone complain of a certain emotional detachment; some people say that it is the first time they have felt normal; some people who have treatment-resistant depression say that suboxone is the only drug that helps.

What I'm saying is that people's reactions to suboxone are somewhat variable. Here are some facts about the benefits of suboxone. Opiate addicts have higher relapse rate and overdose deaths associated with their addiction. Suboxone takes away cravings and withdrawal symptoms and does not give opiate tolerant people any euphoria or "high". The only way for an opiate tolerant person (opiate addicts) to overdose on sub is to combine it with another central nervous system depressant like alcohol or benzos. (If your husband is on a steady dose of both his chances of overdose are very small. But if he messes with his dosages he could be in trouble. Most doctors who prescribe suboxone will not also prescribe benzos with them.

5) The supplements your husband is taking makes blaming his behavioral symptoms on any one drug impossible. It would take a physician to understand how his supplements could interfere/interact with his other medications. It's a crapshoot!

My suggestion is that your husband be seen by a very competent psychiatrist. If he has a mood disorder like depression and a potential of being on the spectrum he needs to go to someone who can understand how these might interplay with the medications he is on.

It is every spouse's dream that their addict partner can just stop using all medications and be just fine. The reality, especially for opiate addiction, is that type of thinking is unhelpful and inappropriate. An intervention that insists that he go into inpatient, abstinence-based detox and recovery may not be realistic for your husband, and being forced into that is not helpful.

If you are thinking of giving your husband an ultimatum, this is what I would suggest. First, completely back off of the goals of the intervention. Let him know that while your heart was in the right place, you recognize that inpatient detox might not have been appropriate in his situation. However, his behavior is causing a family crisis that needs to be addressed. (He probably already feels horrible that he can't control his behavior.) If you are going to insist on something, insist that he find a qualified psychiatrist he is comfortable with. Make sure that he include you in part of the medical discussion so you know what is going on. Let him know that you are on his side, but that he can no longer treat you and the children in the same way. You are in charge of protecting your children from his erratic moods, and if that means you have to leave him, you will. But you would much rather see him get the help he needs and stay with him.

Your husband does need help, but he has to approve of the form of help. Make an appointment with his PC and try to get him on board with pushing your husband to see a psychiatrist. He may not know what kind of supplements your husband is using, nor that he is abusing his andro gel.

These are my suggestions based on my own experience with suboxone, my studies of psychopathology, and the experience I've had as a moderator on this forum. I am not a doctor, nor am I yet a professional addiction counselor. What I'm suggesting is that he see a psychiatrist who can help guide him with therapy and medication.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:58 pm 
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WOW! Thank you so very much. You guys ROCK! It's so good to be able to communicate with people who can understand this issue. BTW ~ I am a Physical Therapist so I do have a good amount of medical knowledge ~ but, not much about drugs.

With my husband being a nurse, he basically dictates his own treatment. He THINKS he knows what is best. And, his PC doctor just gives him whatever he asks for.

He has every symptom of having Asperger's but refuses to get a confirmed diagnosis. He is extremely intelligent but has absolutely no social skills.

I am 61 and he is 56. I have my own children and grandchildren from a previous marriage. My first spouse died of his addictions. I would not have married my current spouse had I been aware of his addictions. As far as I knew he was sober as a judge ~ still going to church and Celebrate Recovery. But, he could only hide it for so long. He has no relationship with any of my three children and has never even met the two youngest grandchildren.

I have just decided, although we live in the same house, I am just going to live my life. I cannot just sit in the house while he lingers in his bedroom. My husband cannot travel ~ he gets extreme anxiety at the very thought. I do want to travel and I am going to.

This may end up in a divorce. It's MY house, so I cannot leave. My 88 year-old mother has an in-law apartment in my basement and I sure cannot leave her down there. Or, it could end up in his death from drugs or being non-compliant with the CPAP mask. He stops breathing for L O N G periods of time and then struggles to begin breathing again. He gets very angry if I bring up the subject, so I do not any longer.

I have been going to Celebrate Recovery and working the steps. We are on Step 5. It is a wonderful program. My husband now makes fun of me for going and says that I only "parrot" what I hear other people say. I don't care ~ I'm going to keep going back! I have a sponsor and an accountability partner. I do think I will start going to an Al-Anon group shortly.

I know he cannot lose his salvation ~ but, the unGodly behavior is something I never thought I would see from him. All of his ex-friends just shake their heads in disbelief. He called our former pastor who was his sponsor (and long-time friend) an asshole. Nice.

Thanks for letting me expound! I do seriously appreciate suggestions from people who know more than I do about drug addiction.

Bobbie <><


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Willoughby2005 wrote:
So, to summarize ~ he is taking Zoloft, Klonopin, Andro Gel and Suboxone along with a HOST of other supplements intended to body build.


I agree with Amy. It sounds a lot like your husband is experiencing a period of severe depression. It also sounds like the combination of medication he's prescribed may be contributing to these effects.

In my experience, SSRI's like Zoloft can induce in some people what they call an "anti-depressant apathy syndrome". While they can lift a person out of depression, some people can report they create a sense of detachment and a lack of motivation. I've felt this to a degree while on Pristiq and Effexor. I felt kind-of like "everything's okay" so I didn't feel the need to change anything about my life, and the drive to do things like exercise to improve my mood, or to study to improve my career etc wasn't present so much. Google "SSRI frontal lobe syndrome" and you'll see numerous studies on the topic.

The other likely player is the andro-gel. Testosterone is one a key motivation hormone in men, and given he's somewhat abusing endogenous testosterone, this may likely be causing problems.

Klonopin, being a benzo with its own addictive profile, can only be adding to the problems.

Whether the Suboxone is playing a part is a bit more controversial. It's widely known that long-term opiate therapy reduces testosterone levels, and since buprenorphine is an opiate it's entirely possible it's contributing to your husband's problems. However, Suboxone (perhaps because it's only a partial agonist) affects testosterone levels in men less than methadone. And one study found it didn't affect T-levels at all. However there have been numerous men (myself included) who have reported on this forum that, after some years on Suboxone, their testosterone levels fell to the clinically low range. With that came symptoms of apathy, depression, low motivation. In fact, men and women have come on this forum stating that after a couple of years on Suboxone, they lost all desire to achieve, to socialise, and became somewhat depressed. And when they reduced their dose, or came off Sub entirely, they found they "woke up" and they found the desire to socialise again. Now these reports were only anecdotal, so it's hard to ascertain causality. But the stories are still telling. Perhaps your husband might find a reduction in Suboxone useful.

I understand it is hard for you to deal with your husband's obvious illness. Have you expressed to him at all your dissatisfaction in your partnership at the moment? That might give him the kick-up-the-ass he needs. Try not to associate what he's going through with any kind of religious void. It sounds like he's very unwell at the present. However, recovery is definitely possible. Even though he's not abusing any illegal drugs, he may find a period in rehab, where they monitor stabilise his medication and give him regular activity. There are risks in doing this, especially if you choose a rehab with a 12-step bent, that they may reduce him off his Suboxone and Klonipin entirely.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:59 am 
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Thank you all again! Seriously ~ cannot express my appreciation enough.

I know you have to qualify yourself that you are not doctors.

But, does anyone know about the negative effects of long-term Suboxone use on the Endocrine system?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:10 am 
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I agree w/ Teejay and Amy in the sense that your husband has a number of "I don't give a shit (IDGAS)" meds and factors at play:

1) SSRIs can cause it, as they noted - this one I never experienced, but have read several online studies.
2) Benzos are designed to reduce anxiety, often resulting in caring less about circumstances around you (stressful factors or not) - valium does that for me, even now.
3) Opiates certainly add to the "IDGAS" dynamic - also happened to me
4) Too much test can greatly increase the anger/hostility factor, resulting in an unwillingness to be sympathetic or empathetic to others' feelings - also happened to me.
5) Lack of REM sleep, caused by sleep apnea, can also enhance long term depression - that, too, happens to me if I dont wear my CPAP consistently. That got so bad, actually, that I had to go to my doc to get a short-term sleep med just to try and rest (and who knows what effect Rx sleep meds have on REM sleep as opposed to just being unconscious for 6-8 hours).

That your husband is nurturing all five of these at the same time is a recipe for what you're experiencing. I can't imagine the brain chemistry cocktail that is currently awash in your husband's mind.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:27 am 
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I just lost my whole stinking post again!!! Frustrating!

Husband needs a thorough screening by a psychiatrist before doing any in-patient treatment, IMHO.

Apnea is serious business! A friend was diagnosed with beginning Alzheimers until they figured out it was actually severe sleep apnea. It can mess with cognition that much!!!

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Thanks, Amy! I am very sorry for your disappearing post. :(

The sleep apnea is extremely severe. The door to his room is closed so I cannot see whether he is asleep or awake. I will hear the loud snoring for a while and then silence. So, I think the silence means he is awake. But, after about 45 seconds I will hear him snorting and chugging to breathe and then the cycle repeats itself.

His room is on one side of my (fairly) large house and mine is on the other. Even with his door shut and my door closed I have to keep my television on so that I can sleep without hearing the extraordinarily loud snoring. You can hear it outside in my front yard with his windows closed ~ not kidding.

I used my phone to record the episodes thinking that it would scare him into being more CPAP compliant. Instead, he just got REALLY angry with me.

No one has replied to my question concerning long-term suboxone use and damage to the Endocrine system. Can anyone please advice?

Bless you all!
B. <><


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:26 pm 
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We do not know of many loug term effcts from Suboxone. Loug term opiate use in general can lower
testosterone levels in men and cause things from that, like reduced sex drive.
Suboxone can do the samething. So to a answer you on this, low T seems to be the biggest concern in some people.

Ive een on Buprenorphine for almost 5 years. My sex drive is limited at best. But the rewards of taking sub at this poi t in my life outweighs any side effects I may be having..

Hope that helps some...

Razor (with the help of dr j)...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:41 pm 
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Definitely a libido-killer. And it seems to love headaches. I've had a headache since the moment I started on it. Advil helps a bit, and Im even on test therapy, but the headaches continue and the libido does not. lol

As far as the endocrine system, I haven't had any testing done, but I have to get my thryroid levels tested every six months, so I'll report back if I hear anything unusual. I'm not sure, if the endocrine system is off, that you'll notice anything other than the symptoms of hypothyroidism?

Id defer to the experts here as to whether there's been any proven correlation. So far, I feel the same - and when my thyroid level drop or rise, I can tell pretty quickly now, after 15 years of ups and downs.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:49 am 
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My spouse and I are basically living in the same house, but separated. We live completely separate lives.

I noticed yesterday that his hair has gone completely white. Not gray, but pure white. He is only 56.

He used to be blonde and then started to go a bit gray. It seems in the last 2 months he has lost all melanocytes in his hair.

Could the Suboxone be the cause of this?

Thanks,
B. <><


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Definitely a headache-inducing libido killer for me...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:45 pm 
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All life saving drugs will have xome sort of side effect, including Buprenorphine. I am Dependent on this med, not addicted.
The fact is I know many who will not risk the new lives they have built bg going off suboxone. Lougterm is a personal and those that do remove there meds do feel differently. But they had better have other recovery tools in there belts or death could await them..


As far as the op question, your husband seems to me to under much stress. The fact his hair is changing could be for a number of things .
Suboxone as far as in concerned does not cause hair to turn While...age and genetics mainly..plus his stress...

Im 57, on sub 5 years...im gray..im alive..and I Do Not take sub loug term for some kinda Buzz...

When you are new to treatment (under two months or so), that lift you get will disappear. .


Good luck all.....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Tomhunter, whatever your personal experience is, it doesn't involve being on 6 different drugs that are interacting with each other. So the fact that you believe that people are on suboxone for some kind of buzz or high is irrelevant to this man's situation. He needs to be seen by a medical professional that can sort out the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of these various drugs.

You have taken the fact that you subjectively feel something in your body when you take sub and have extrapolated that to the many people who have discovered sub in their quest to deal with treatment-resistant depression. That's a very broad brush to use when you have no scientific evidence to back that up. It would be like me saying, "In my experience, men who add some manly pursuit to their member names on forums are overcompensating for a self-perceived lack of manliness." See, that's how opinions work. I don't have to have any data to back that up. I could just have an agenda that I want to make men feel bad if they've added "hunter" to their name. Your agenda hasn't been completely obvious. However, it's becoming crystal clear to me. You're here to cast dispersions onto sub and the people on it. Otherwise you wouldn't be answering Willoughby's question with an opinion that doesn't answer her actual question about her husband's hair. Perhaps that answer doesn't serve your purpose.

The answer to Willoughby is that there is no evidence that suboxone has anything to do with changing hair color or influencing melanocytes.

Willoughby, I haven't questioned your motives in asking advice about your husband's drug use, but it seems to me that white hair is a strange thing to care about. You admit that you and your husband are separated in the same house. What I can't tell is if you truly care about your husband's drug use at this time or if you're trying to gather ammunition for a coming divorce. I do understand you being upset at his behavior and misuse/abuse of drugs. It seems strange to then zero in on hair color. I don't know.

Amy

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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