It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:33 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:59 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:25 pm
Posts: 42
Just pointing out the other side of Suboxone, which you clearly don't like to hear about. 90% of what's on this forum is anecdotal, so your agenda is equally clear. Suboxone is a drug, and while you're all for touting the upside, you guys really get sensitive when the issue of people abusing it for recreational purposes comes up. Interesting. Certainly makes one wonder why the resistance.

Good luck to you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
The resistance to non-fact based opinion is that is that your experience is just that, your experience. But you're willing to disparage a whole group of people based on your opinion. It's not nice to the people out there with treatment-resistant depression that they've probably struggled with most of their lives, to read that they are probably just experiencing an mini-high because that's what you experienced. Not very complicated.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:34 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Amy ~ I am surprised at some of the semi-hostile responses you have posted lately. As we say in my family, "Is your 'give a damn' broken"?

I thank my God that I have never had to deal with addiction issues. But, because I am very naive about the side-effects of these drugs, I just have questions that I was hoping this forum could provide answers to.

I have a very large house so it is easy for two people to co-exist without bumping into each other. And, as I have said previously, he spends most of his time in his room when he comes home from work.

When I saw him yesterday, I was just very shocked to see that in basically two months, his hair has gone completely white. I have read stories about people who have been so scared their hair turned white, but they are, in reality, myths.

So, I just wondered if the Suboxone or the combination of the drugs could cause such a dramatic change in such a short period of time.

I am not gathering facts for a divorce hearing. What would I tell the judge, "Look at him! His hair is white!"

I hope you realize that when people are reaching out to other people who they hope have answers they do not have some underlying, subversive motive.

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:07 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2300
Location: Tennessee
Willoughby I think it's perfectly ok to question all these things that is happening with ur husband. That being said, it does seem like ur blaming every negative thing on the use of suboxone, that's just my opinion on it. The fact that ur husband is abusing a medication to become stronger and more muscular is a huge answer to all the things ur seeming to blame suboxone for. The violence and physical appearance is a huge sign of this. Have u researched the side effects of that? I know ppl who've abused that type of medicine and everything ur telling us is a side effect. Nobody has a "don't give a damn" attitude, it's just ur blaming the wrong things here. If ur husband wasn't on suboxone and still using his drug of choice, you'd have a whole new set of worries on ur hands, so that's a positive imo. And honestly as bad as I'd hate to have complete white hair at my age, I'd welcome that as a side effect over using again, but I've been taking it for almost four yrs and my hair is still exactly the same.

Tomhunter it does seem like ur always focused on the negative effects of suboxone. I'm not saying that it doesn't give u headaches or libido issues, that's a common complaint. Nothing is perfect. A lot of ppl come here for support or advice and are looking to change their lives with the help of Sub, not to be scared off because of some stupid side effects. There's a lot of sub hating forums out there but this is not one of them.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:07 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Thank you, Jennifer ~ I am not a fan of Suboxone ~ but, neither am I a fan of any mind-altering drugs.

I simply am trying to understand what is going on with the man I married.

I was not under the impressions that Andro-Gel, Klonopin, or Zoloft would turn someone's hair snow white in a VERY short period of time. So, I thought it may be a side-effect of the Suboxone on the Endocrine system. i.e., perhaps too much or too little cortisol being produced by the Adrenal glands. Hence, loss of melanocytes.

Hail to the people who have success on Suboxone and it doesn't have any other negative effects on their minds and bodies. I can understand how they would chose Suboxone over other street illegal drugs. But, I do detect a hostility when someone mentions that it is not the "Holy Grail".

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:00 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
"I hope you realize that when people are reaching out to other people who they hope have answers they do not have some underlying, subversive motive."

Unfortunately, some of them do. We have had several imposters on the forum. Sometimes these "personalities" will make dear friends here with people who are vulnerable. Then when the "personality" gets bored he or she moves on to another persona, leaving that "friend" high and dry.

I spent a long time writing suggestions to you, PMing them and then posting them on your thread. Is your husband under the care of a psychiatrist yet? I hope so, because it will take a medical/psychiatric doctor to sort it all out.

Let me just add that you don't know me. You've been here for 11 days. How can you know whether I'm more or less hostile than normal?

All of us who have taken the time to post on your thread have basically said the same thing. Your husband needs the help of a professional and no, we haven't heard of that symptom being attributed to suboxone. It may someday be a known symptom but it isn't yet.

I won't make any apologies for the fact that this forum is pro-suboxone. There are already many sites dedicated to hating suboxone. This a place for people on sub to feel at home. They are my first priority, in fact. I read all posts with the the eye of a new sub patient and ask myself how I would've felt from reading it.
Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:26 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Amy ~ I said semi-hostile because I have read a few of your posts that were responses to other's posts. If these folks had anything at all negative to post about Suboxone ~ no matter how slight ~ you really fired back at them. I understand you viewing posts through a "newbies" eyes, but I would hope you would consider me a newbie who has had the "wool pulled over her eyes" about my spouse's prescription drug abuse.

And, I am just looking for answers. Yes, my husband has seen the same psychiatrist for 15 years ~ once every three months to get his script for Zoloft refilled. I get the impression it's like a drive-thru. Not thinking he gets to lay on a couch and spill the beans.

Again ~ I was just very shocked to see his hair turn so completely snow white in such a very short period of time and wondered what could cause the drastic change. I just simply came here to ask that question. I just wanted someone to say yes or no. Wasn't looking for the Philadelphia lawyer's expose.

Obviously, my husband is a very sick man and I know that. Not thinking HE does so there is nothing I can do about his illness.

I just wanted help on a subject I am just now learning that I know nothing about. I'll withdraw from this forum in a heartbeat and look elsewhere for help if I am threatening the pro-Suboxone agenda.

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:33 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Willoughby2005 wrote:
Amy ~ I said semi-hostile because I have read a few of your posts that were responses to other's posts. If these folks had anything at all negative to post about Suboxone ~ no matter how slight ~ you really fired back at them. I understand you viewing posts through a "newbies" eyes, but I would hope you would consider me a newbie who has had the "wool pulled over her eyes" about my spouse's prescription drug abuse.

And, I am just looking for answers. Yes, my husband has seen the same psychiatrist for 15 years ~ once every three months to get his script for Zoloft refilled. I get the impression it's like a drive-thru. Not thinking he gets to lay on a couch and spill the beans.

Again ~ I was just very shocked to see his hair turn so completely snow white in such a very short period of time and wondered what could cause the drastic change. I just simply came here to ask that question. I just wanted someone to say yes or no. Wasn't looking for the Philadelphia lawyer's expose.

Quote:
All of us who have taken the time to post on your thread have basically said the same thing. Your husband needs the help of a professional and no, we haven't heard of that symptom being attributed to suboxone. It may someday be a known symptom but it isn't yet.


THE ABOVE WAS THE ANSWER I WAS LOOKING FOR AND NO MORE.

Obviously, my husband is a very sick man and I know that. Not thinking HE does so there is nothing I can do about his illness. I am a 61 year-old woman who, although physically fit, suffered a devastating back injury while treating a patient during aquatic therapy. (Physical Therapist) I have had four surgeries and multiple injections and diagnostic tests. This injury has cause my job classification to be reduced to sedentary ~ meaning I can no longer work as a PT. I am on a fixed income provided by Worker's Compensation. I am concerned about MY future, especially in the realm of finances, should this marriage end in divorce.

I just wanted help on a subject I am just now learning that I know nothing about. I'll withdraw from this forum in a heartbeat and look elsewhere for help if I am threatening the pro-Suboxone agenda.

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:28 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 1039
This is probably out of left field, but I do know a guy whose hair went from mostly brown w a little gray to snow white very quickly. He was on chemotherapy and I have no idea which drugs. He ended up losing the white hair and his normal hair grew back. Sometimes chemo drugs are used for other things (like Hep C). Don't know if your hub could be on anything else you didn't mention.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:45 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Thank you, Lilyval! Who knows what else he could be on?! I have stated what I AM AWARE of ~ however, being as "out-of-the-loop" as I am about drugs, I didn't know my first spouse was shooting heroin until 6 months after he started.

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:46 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
Willoughby2005 wrote:
Willoughby2005 wrote:
Amy ~ I said semi-hostile because I have read a few of your posts that were responses to other's posts. If these folks had anything at all negative to post about Suboxone ~ no matter how slight ~ you really fired back at them. I understand you viewing posts through a "newbies" eyes, but I would hope you would consider me a newbie who has had the "wool pulled over her eyes" about my spouse's prescription drug abuse.

And, I am just looking for answers. Yes, my husband has seen the same psychiatrist for 15 years ~ once every three months to get his script for Zoloft refilled. I get the impression it's like a drive-thru. Not thinking he gets to lay on a couch and spill the beans.

Again ~ I was just very shocked to see his hair turn so completely snow white in such a very short period of time and wondered what could cause the drastic change. I just simply came here to ask that question. I just wanted someone to say yes or no. Wasn't looking for the Philadelphia lawyer's expose.

Quote:
All of us who have taken the time to post on your thread have basically said the same thing. Your husband needs the help of a professional and no, we haven't heard of that symptom being attributed to suboxone. It may someday be a known symptom but it isn't yet.


THE ABOVE WAS THE ANSWER I WAS LOOKING FOR AND NO MORE.

Obviously, my husband is a very sick man and I know that. Not thinking HE does so there is nothing I can do about his illness. I am a 61 year-old woman who, although physically fit, suffered a devastating back injury while treating a patient during aquatic therapy. (Physical Therapist) I have had four surgeries and multiple injections and diagnostic tests. This injury has cause my job classification to be reduced to sedentary ~ meaning I can no longer work as a PT. I am on a fixed income provided by Worker's Compensation. I am concerned about MY future, especially in the realm of finances, should this marriage end in divorce.

I just wanted help on a subject I am just now learning that I know nothing about. I'll withdraw from this forum in a heartbeat and look elsewhere for help if I am threatening the pro-Suboxone agenda.

B. <><




When you first came here as a newbie I spent over an hour looking things up and writing suggestions to you. I read what Tomhunter wrote to you before I did which included this statement: "That's taking multiple years to make excuses to stay on it because he's getting some kind of high off it." I didn't react.

The post where he said that "definitely a headache libido killer to me" was actually edited by one of the mods. The full post had said that the people who said they were using sub as an anti-depressant were actually just getting a buzz off of it. He was basing that on what he personally felt after using sub for about a week.

There are many people who take sub who also have treatment-resistant depression. Tomhunter said that those people are just feeling a mini-high from suboxone and therefore it wasn't really treating their depression. He said these things based on opinion born of his personal experience. It's my job to differentiate what is proven and what is negative speculation. I wish that most of his entire post had not been deleted, because what he said was offensive to people coming here looking for help, but it was egregious enough that it had to be taken down. If I was hostile to his unsubstantiated opinion I'm not troubled by that.

The fact that your husband already has a psychiatrist is news to us. This is the first time you've mentioned that and I'm surprised since people mentioned that your husband should see one. I've gone back and carefully read all of your posts. Have you been successful in contacting his psychiatrist and letting him know about all the drugs your husband is on? (That would be the first thing I would do, I think.) We had only heard that he has an accommodating primary care doctor.

I'm sorry that you are struggling. Acting as if you have no part in marrying an addict, however, is a little baffling. Your first husband was an addict and died from his addictions and this is what you wrote, "My first spouse died of his addictions. I would not have married my current spouse had I been aware of his addictions. As far as I knew he was sober as a judge ~ still going to church and Celebrate Recovery."

If he wasn't an addict already then why was he in Celebrate Recovery? Don't you have to be addicted to something to be in Celebrate Recovery? (I've never attended that organization and haven't heard of it.) Usually people who end up in relationships with addicts have some co-dependency issues, not because they want to have them, just because none of us is perfect.

There are incredibly sad stories all through this forum. Many times when people start on this forum they are truly broken people. Some are homeless and jobless, some have lost all family members, some don't have relationships with their children. The stories here are painful.

If you need more information about suboxone of course you should ask. There is only one psychiatrist here that I know of and that is suboxdoc. The rest of us are not going to be able to give you a simple answer to any question about cause and effect because there are so many different drugs being used in combination. You can contact the psychiatrist, Dr. Junig if you go to Talkzone (tab at the top) and click where it says "contact me".

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:17 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2300
Location: Tennessee
Amy, I agree with everything u just said and I didn't know that tomhunter said all that extra stuff, I was already upset that every single thing he posted was negative. All I saw was the headache libido killer and the rest I didn't see in time. That was completely uncalled for!! Sometimes when someone just keeps on and on knowing that this is a pro sub forum, action has to be taken. I fully agree that it should have been deleted. There's no reason to insult ppl who's trying so hard to change their lives. This medication has saved our lives and will save many more, ppl tend to forget that. Having to deal with trolls daily can take its toll and Amy only has everyone's best interest at heart. :)

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:23 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Quote:
The fact that your husband already has a psychiatrist is news to us. This is the first time you've mentioned that and I'm surprised since people mentioned that your husband should see one. I've gone back and carefully read all of your posts. Have you been successful in contacting his psychiatrist and letting him know about all the drugs your husband is on? (That would be the first thing I would do, I think.) We had only heard that he has an accommodating primary care doctor.


Truthfully, I didn't think his "drive-thru" psychiatrist was a part of the problem since all he does is give him Zoloft quarterly. The GP prescribes the rest of the meds. I do not think my spouse actually is under the "care" of the psychiatrist in the way someone would be who actually gets counseling from one. I'm sure he could use a hefty dose of counseling.


Quote:
I'm sorry that you are struggling. Acting as if you have no part in marrying an addict, however, is a little baffling. Your first husband was an addict and died from his addictions and this is what you wrote, "My first spouse died of his addictions. I would not have married my current spouse had I been aware of his addictions. As far as I knew he was sober as a judge ~ still going to church and Celebrate Recovery."


My first husband and I married when we were 20 years-old. It was the 70's and people did drugs. Except me. I just hung around with people who smoked grass and took qualudes. After 11 years of marriage and 3 children my husband's addictions became extremely serious and I had to ask him to leave. We divorced and 10 years later he died.

My second husband was an alcoholic/addict but became sober when he was 28. He was sober and active in Celebrate Recovery for 25 years. When I first dated him he wouldn't even drink mouth wash if it had alcohol in it. He was extremely serious about his sobriety. We dated for 4 years and then broke up. After 9 years he came back into my life and we ended up marrying. What I didn't realize was he had lost his sobriety to Percocet following surgery. He kept falling asleep at inappropriate times, but in my ignorance, I thought it was due to severe untreated sleep apnea. He would fall asleep driving, at church, at work, etc. After 1 year of marriage he came clean to me and did the Suboxone route.

When I married him his pain pill addiction was his sick secret. After the experience with my first husband, I would have NEVER married an active drug user again. I just was under the sincere impression he had maintained his sobriety. Boy, did I get the wool pull over my eyes!

Thanks for all you help, Amy.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:16 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
Yes, that is unfortunately the chance you take when you marry an alcoholic/addict. I'm sure your husband seemed to be rock solid from the outside.

Dr. Junig himself was 7 years sober after his first bout with opiate addiction. He was an anesthesiologist at the time and he was sober through AA/NA (I don't remember which). After 7 years sober he relapsed rather spectacularly. He ended up having to stop his anesthesiologist practice and so he switched to psychiatry after he got his life together again, using suboxone for treatment.

Maybe I could share a bit of my story so you might know a little better where I'm coming from. I got through my teen years and early 20s without abusing substances. As an adult I would maybe have a drink on social occasions maybe 2 or 3 times a year. When I had my son via c-section I wouldn't take any drugs besides ibuprofen because I was breastfeeding him. But my world crumbled when my mom died unexpectedly and suddenly one night when I was 31. Instead of grieving properly I started taking a percocet or vicodin here and there to make myself feel better. I used the neck pain and migraines that I actually had, exaggerated it to a pain doctor, and voila...I was getting prescriptions for 240 5-325 oxycodone, a ton of tramadol and opanas here and there. I knew I wasn't living up to my potential, I was hurting my son and my marriage, so I decided to ask for help in fall of 2011. I called an in-patient facility and the lady I talked to told me to find a suboxone doctor and get on sub. That's exactly what I did.

From the moment I inducted on the medication I felt like I was normal person again. No cravings and no withdrawal symptoms, I had a new lease on life! My mind was released by sub from the obsession I had been a slave to. The last 4 years have been fulfilling as I work toward rebuilding my life and starting a new career. It hasn't been easy, but it's been doable with the help of sub. I have heard very similar stories over and over again on this forum.

I have also heard the stories of a number of people who couldn't tolerate the drug. To them the cure is worse than the disease. Likewise I have heard of plenty of stories of greedy doctor who only seem to prescribe sub for the money, prescribing too much so that people have extra to sell on the black market. This fuels the ability of some to stay on a cycle of using heroin and sub to keep from getting dope sick. There are problems.

On the whole, however, suboxone has saved many lives. It's the best solution we have right now to keep regular opiates from killing addicts. So, yes, I do get defensive when people say unsubstantiated negative things about it that might prevent a desperate opiate addict from recovery.

Your husband is a very special case and I hope he gets the help that he needs.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:55 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
UPDATE ~ my husband, having Asperger's and needing to follow set routines ~ has, always been fastidious about taking care of his teeth. He brushes and flosses 3 times a day and sees his dentist every 6 months.

Now, his teeth ~ primarily the lower mouth ~ are cracking, chipping and falling out. He uses the sublingual strips.

I have read quite a few articles on FB about Suboxone and teeth damage.

Can I please get opinions on this subject?

Thanks!

P.S. If anything would make him stop using Suboxone, it would have to be a teeth issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:42 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:49 pm
Posts: 517
Untreated sleep apnea causes major damage to teeth! Especially the lower teeth. Please google it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:41 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Thanks, Tiki! I didn't know that. I will Google it.

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:52 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1001
Hey Willoughby.

There are a few anecdotal reports floating around the internet of people who experienced tooth decay after going on Suboxone. However, there are no studies as yet on the subject, so it hasn't been proven as yet to be the cause. Judging by the responses from people on this forum when people bring it up, Suboxone hasn't caused most people on this board any dental problems.

I remember when I was on methadone that I was encouraged to chew gum to keep my mouth from getting dry. The theory was that it's the dry mouth that causes the tooth problems. If your hubby has a persistently dry mouth from the Suboxone, perhaps this might help.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:21 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 19
Thanks, TeeJay! I have read other's people's experience on the Internet with tooth loss/decay after long-term Suboxone use. Maybe from holding the drug under the tongue for quite a while. Also, because of the drug causing dry mouth. Like I said, if anything would get him to loose the Suboxone, it would be damage to his teeth. So, maybe I am hoping there is a connection.

B. <><


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:40 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:05 am
Posts: 156
Hello willoughby,
I feel for both you and your husband. I have been on subs just over four yrs and methadone 2 and a bit yrs prior. Thankfully I still have all my teeth. I didn't see a dentist for 13 yrs during active addiction. I have had gum disease, some recession, however it's not active anymore.
It sounds like you believe suboxone may be the driving force behind your husbands situation. I'm wondering how often and how long he has taken the benzodiazepine you mentioned. As you would likely know, benzo's can cause significant personality changes, including moodiness and agitation. I'm guessing his progressive state of mind is extremely complicated. He sounds clinically depressed and depression can be terribly lonely.
So what a about you willo? How do you feel sharing a house with a man you barely recognise?
Are you holding out in hope he may seek help or stop suboxone?
Stay in touch willo!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group