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 Post subject: Death
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:43 pm 
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:cry: My mom was on suboxone for a year and 7 months, I had to help her withdrawal from them for 5 days, which was not good or fun. I had no idea about the withdraw ease. Anyway I heard your not supposed to drink on them, but she did, and she ended up dying from liver failure. So it seems like taking suboxone and drinking can really hurt your liver. Anybody that's reading this, please be soooooo careful not to drink, and come off the suboxone as soon as you can, cause the longer you are on it, the more addicted you become to it. So is it really a miracle drug, in my opinion, no. It's just a legal drug that doctors can push.


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 Post subject: Sad Loss
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Sorry to hear you lost your mom, nat. Sadly the road of addiction often leads to a tragic end.
Also thank's for warning folks not to drink alcohol when taking, sub.
I guess your mom had a long struggle, and was doing her best to overcome her weakness.
May she rest in peace.
Hopefully one day society will delete the stigma attached with addiction and replace it with compassion
through understanding and education.


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 Post subject: Re: Death
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:37 am 
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natattack wrote:
:cry: My mom was on suboxone for a year and 7 months, I had to help her withdrawal from them for 5 days, which was not good or fun. I had no idea about the withdraw ease. Anyway I heard your not supposed to drink on them, but she did, and she ended up dying from liver failure. So it seems like taking suboxone and drinking can really hurt your liver. Anybody that's reading this, please be soooooo careful not to drink, and come off the suboxone as soon as you can, cause the longer you are on it, the more addicted you become to it. So is it really a miracle drug, in my opinion, no. It's just a legal drug that doctors can push.


Sorry, but I've been on Suboxone a lot longer than that, and my doctor tests me regularly via urinalysis to make sure the Suboxone is being filtered properly from my body, and never, in the last 4 years or so that I've been mostly on Suboxone, have I had problems with it NOT filtering properly.
And to be quite honest, when I first started...I drank about 1 year after I was on Suboxone. I can't really say that I "tied one on" or nothing, but it was enough drinking to be considered "drinking."
That didn't affect me in ANY negative manner.

It's VERY possible that your mom had liver problems that stemmed from the drug use/abuse that was done PRIOR to her starting suboxone. If you think liver failure / cirrhosis of the liver is something that happens IMMEDIATELY, you're BADLY mistaken. Liver failure can take years to show it's face to someone..And in fact the LIVER is the ONLY organ in the body that CAN regenerate itself unless it's damaged beyond repair...
So Suboxone is NOT going to be the culprit here. It would take a LOT longer than one year of it to do the kind of damage that would cause distress in the liver, and she would've had symptoms early on if suboxone was doing damage. It's likely her damage was done while on an opiate high, and she could not notice the major problems because the opiate was blocking the pain and keeping her from being able to tell there was a major problem.

But it's just much easier to blame suboxone rather than look into information of the damage that opiates do to the liver..like apap/hydrocodone long-term use and the damage THAT does to your liver.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:54 am 
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Jonathanm nailed it right there.

I did a quick google to confirm, and actually found this:

Quote:
Acute liver and renal failure during treatment with buprenorphine at therapeutic dose

Buprenorphine is a semi-synthetic opioid derivative commonly used in the treatment of heroin addiction. Life-threatening complications have been described following overdoses while few cases of hepatotoxicity due to drug use at therapeutic doses have been recently described in hepatitis C virus carriers. In these cases, however, histological assessment was not exhaustive and no extra-hepatic organ failure was observed. We describe herein a case of acute liver and kidney failure in a patient with previously latent hepatitis C virus chronic infection following recommended doses of buprenorphine. Histology did not demonstrate any feature compatible with hepatitis C virus reactivation or liver cirrhosis and suspension of the treatment led to the resolution of both liver and kidney failure. Causality criteria fulfillment indicates a high probability of buprenorphine-induced liver toxicity. No signs of pre-existant kidney impairment or of pre- or post-renal causes were observed. Since buprenorphine is metabolized through cytochrome P450 3A4, we genotyped six genetic polymorphisms previously described in poor metabolizers but could not confirm these pharmacogenetic bases in this case. In conclusion, we surmise that buprenorphine at suggested doses can induce liver and kidney failure in susceptible individuals, possibly through direct mitochondrial toxicity.


Given Hep C is very common in ex-drug addicts, it's a serious reminder for people on Suboxone to get regular LFT's.


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 Post subject: hep C
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:52 pm 
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Those of us, with hep C, would do well to have a pro active approach, in looking after our liver and kidney's, on a daily basis. The number 1 rule being -No Alcohol. Dehydration really hammers your liver. Get a belly full of water everyday, opiates dehydrate your body, even though it sucks getting up for 4 pisses a night, take a jug of water bedside.
I usually drink at least 20 liters a week, and twice that, some times.
Hep C is a bugger, and I've had it for 25 years, and had 3 hospital stints, including a nine week, B&C "yellow as" stay. I've been mostly ok for 20 years, cause I flicked the booze, and only used opiates. Other folks I knew with hepC gave up dope for booze, and wore out real quick.
Another thing with hep C is toxic overload from smog, pesticides[deodorants and dyes] and crap that's put in food these days. If you get exposed to too much you lose all your energy, and find yourself in bed for week or two.
Yeah it's easy to ignore hep C when it's not making you sick, but thats the time to look after your liver, and yeah regular liver function tests, are essential to measure and determine treatment. It's not a wrap yourself in cotton wool disease, if you wise up to it early.
Cheers {sparkling water}


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 Post subject: So sorry for your loss
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:18 am 
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I am really sorry you lost your mother. No matter whether it was the alcohol, the past drug use, drinking on suboxone, Hep C, Cirrhosis etc. The bottom line and real culprit is ADDICTION. When we take in the option to takes suboxone or methadone, the way most of us are looking at it is that the risk of taking one of these is less than the risk of continued abuse.
In my opinion, it is the very fact of why there are doctors and such that will even consider prescribing opiates for opiate abuse or prescribing drugs to get off drugs. And in a way it is like I am taking part in what is called informed consent that instead of getting clean by abstinence (without MMT) I have chosen (by my consent and with the information I have been given and/or researched) a path that may have its complications, side effects, addiction or "dependence" (as we on MMT like to call it). So I knew this ahead of time and I still chose to take the leap rather than to stay in my active addiction which in my case would be riskier.
Given my relapses when I tried the abstinence, meetings, psychiatric help etc…this is my only hope and yes something could happen while I am in MMT and it may appear to be Methadone’s or suboxone’s fault to others that fail to consider all the facts and realize that I could have just as easily or more so even died from actively using as I was prior to MMT. If the doctor’s that prescribe MMT for us appear to society as “pushers” that too is because the person is not informed of all that may and more likely will happen to us addicts that chose to remain in active addiction.
Thank God these doctors take into consideration that abstinence does not always work. And any one of them I have ever talked to has taken my history into thought before prescribing me either of the two MMT choices, have talked to me about my inpatient and/or outpatient failures/successes, relapses etc. and had me rule out those options first before they admitted me into MMT. If society wants to take action against drug pushing doctors they need to look into their local pill mills and/or pain management clinics and take action accordingly. (Not saying all pain management, but these pill mills run under the prefaces of “pain management”) As to me they are worse than the actual drug dealers we drug addicts buy from as at least they never took an oath to protect and serve like these doctor’s did.
Once again, I am so sorry for your loss. My mom can be my biggest pain in my rear, but I cannot imagine life without her and I would feel very cheated if I lost her to addiction etc…. So I do understand your upset with the whole ball of wax here. So please know by me stating what I have, I by no means am in any opposition to your comment/post.

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Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Nattatack'. i am so sorry for your mother". and wish she found suboxone early'r." i have a few drinks ones per week maybe a six pack or more. and i have been on 22mg suboxone for 22 months.
if i have not been taking suboxone'. i would have been drinking more and my liver would have also fail'd. but my liver is checked often and it is fine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:08 pm 
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In the United States, many of our painkillers have Tylenol in them, and taking lots of those (like addicts do) plus drinking heavily can do some real damage to our livers. I have a relative who needs a transplant because of doing just that.

Sorry for your loss.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:48 pm 
Gday natattack, really sorry about your mum
One side effect of Suboxone Iv'e noticed is the lack of a desire to drink alcohol, only been on Suboxone for 10 weeks but in that time I havn't touched a drink.
Considering my past history of serious binge drinking,which has landed me in detox a few times I think my liver is over the moon that I'm on Suboxone.
Cheers,
Subie


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:10 pm 
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subie wrote:
Gday natattack, really sorry about your mum
One side effect of Suboxone Iv'e noticed is the lack of a desire to drink alcohol, only been on Suboxone for 10 weeks but in that time I havn't touched a drink.
Considering my past history of serious binge drinking,which has landed me in detox a few times I think my liver is over the moon that I'm on Suboxone.
Cheers,
Subie


I too used to be one that would drink occasionally..and even in the end..got away from doing a binge "drunk"...I would drink 3 or 4 tops...just for a relaxing feel...but once I started Suboxone, I quit that even. There was beer in my fridge (like one or two from a six back), when I went on Suboxone full-force...and 9 months later, there was STILL a beer in my fridge, and the last one got poured down the sink..I remember 3 or 4 months after I started Suboxone, I opened one..took about 3 sips from it..and poured the rest out. So the last beer I had stayed in the fridge nearly a year before it was thrown away.

Just doesn't really appeal to me anymore...I have never been big on drinking..done it quite a bit...but never really got "hooked" into it. But now, when I was taking pills - and chasing pills -- i remember even bragging about eating my pills with a beer, just to "kick" the pill a bit and make it feel even better. So I would start out drinking a beer to take my lortabs..then I'd take more lortabs..drink more beer..take more tabs...etc.

Oh, the things that SHOULD have happened to me...but thank God I'm here to day to tell my story!


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