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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Ladder….well maybe I should fill you in on my background and maybe it will make more sense. I’m pretty sure I was born to sleep. All growing up I had the family nickname ‘dozer’ meaning I would doze off anywhere no matter the circumstance and that was way before I got into drugs.

I feel the same exact way food wise. During the really bad days (first 10 days) I was eating the crapiest food just because I needed something comforting. I’m not mad at myself for the decision but I didn’t feel good after I ate that crap. I’m sure my recovery might have been quicker had I ate better, but that’s the past now. Im back to eating good (for the most part) and drinking a ton of water also. You know I always wondered about those ‘detox’ drinks and always wanted to try them. I was actually contemplating doing that during the first 10 days but I figured it may upset my stomach more. I may need to check this out in the near future though, thanks for the tip!

Well I guess today is day 16. I had actually lost count and had to go back and read my previous posts to remember lol I guess that’s a good thing. Don’t get me wrong I counted the first 10 days like it was no ones business. I went back to the gym again today for the second day in a row and again WOW I feel freakin great. I had a good day at work also. I had my first sit down in a long time with my boss. I think I mentioned before I was f’n up the past couple of months because my tapper wasn’t working out very well. I was scared as hell going in to meet with her, but she was nice about the whole thing. We even talked about a possible promotion in the near future. WOW it’s so strange when things are looking so bad for someone….and then BAM good things happen. It’s like the saying I try to live by ‘if it weren’t for bad days, good days wouldn’t even exist’ its so true. Thanks everyone for the support. Have a GREAT NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:29 am 
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I LOVE beer! Yet I'm hardly an alcoholic. Compared to my fellow Aussies I'm quite a moderate drinker.

The biggest risk with me and drinking I've found is... After leaving my mates in town after a night on the drink, it's too easy to stumble through the slums and buy drugs. It's hard to think things through clearly when you're drunk!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:22 pm 
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Well I finally bit the bullet and went out today and bought tyneol PM. I hope I don’t get a bad reaction like some have said. It’s just nothing else has worked so far natural wise. I’m late for work everyday because I can’t fall asleep until 3-4am but my body still wants 6-9 hours of sleep. I thinking of taking it very early like 9pm in hopes that I will not be groggy in the morning.

IDK today is day 17 but I must admit I felt better yesterday. My stomach is really bothering me today and this sleep thing is starting to wear me thin. I cannot believe I still have these symptoms, although they are pretty minor in the scheme of things. I guess taking suboxone for 20 months really takes its toll.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:35 pm 
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Hey Substation!
Sounds like you're doin' really good despite the sleep issues! Way to go! Don't wanna sound like a broken record but it reeeeally gets better, it really really does.

I would say at this point, as long as you ARE sleeping and you aren't having any RLS or leg issues at night, then the Tylenol PM should be just fine. That's the only time I had issues with the diphenhydramine was while having the hardcore sleep deprivation and RLS. As a matter of fact, lately I have been taking a Benedryl, just one, every day, just because of the dust/smoke/ash where I live. My allergies have been horrendous since I stopped subs. The Sub related sneezing fits of course are gone but I still have, and always have had allergy issues.

I've also found, for me at least, taking Tylenol PM, or Benedryl for sleep, works, but never for more than 3 days in a row dammit. But I'm sleeping alright lately, I'm just the opposite from you though. I'm not taking anything for sleep at this point and I canNOT keep myself awake past 9 or 10 at night and then I'm up and wide awake anywhere from 3am to 5am still. But I'm content with it at this point. I'm finding I am functioning just fine throughout the day and apparently don't need the sleep I "thought" I did. I noticed you were on subs for 20 months, I was on it for only 10 months. Not sure what day I'm on but I know I'm nearing day 40. My stomach just finally started to behave itself in the last 2 weeks and at the same time my energy is back and I'm not noticing such fatigue. I still have an "off day" here and there where I just can't get my shit together, but I'm 43 years old so I think I'm entitled to have an "off day" here and there and would have them regardless. Everyone does right?

One new thing that sucks though, for me, is just about the time I've been able to go a day or two without thinking about subs or what I've done to myself or ANY of this mess... I've started having drug dreams, alot. Sometimes they're so vivid and disturbing that I wake up almost startled because I've relapsed and messed up, but quickly realize it was just a dream and SO relieved, but then I'm kinda creeped out by it all morning..... Dreams, something I cannot control. But hey, at least I'm havin' em right?

Sorry you had a not so good day today as you did yesterday. I can't remember exact days anymore, but I definitely know I was still kinda sketchy at 3 weeks and I think I remember saying like around day 16 or 17, something-teen, I'd be doing just great and then out of nowhere have this "wave" go through me. But like you said, in the big scheme of things? Really good! I really hope you can get your sleep in order real soon Substation. If you're afraid of Ambien and the like, I would maybe try alternating evenings of Tylenol PM and maybe another over the counter sleep aid of another ingredient, just so you don't get a tolerance to any ONE thing so fast that it stops working, and you can maybe get a good 6 or 7 days in, and get your clock "reset". This has been my experiences thus far anyway. Still pluggin' along and REAL happy :-)

You're screamin' right along Substation!! I'm here if you have any questions about my issues and if you simply wanna vent!

-RSJ


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Thanks a lot RSJ…you know it’s funny how many similarities we all have with this crazy drug called suboxone. I was actually about to get back on and ask if anyone that has quit experienced the same. It’s like I’m trucking along doing great, forgetting how many days I’ve been off and then BAM….shit day. Today is day 17 but I feel like I did on about day 9. I can only remember that because it wasn’t that long ago. Anyway it sounds like it’s common to have a setback day. I was just scared that it may get worst again, but hopefully it was just today and tomorrow will be better. I did FORCE myself and I mean FORCE myself to go to the gym and workout. I do feel much better now.

Yes you bring up a good point. I know you and Romeo were talking about the PM’s making things worst but was really making your RLS worst. Luckily I think I’m past RLS (knock on wood) IDK I’m gonna try and take it early and see what happens.

I guess I’m just scared/lazy to go to my doctor for ambien. I swore to myself that I would NEVER again see my sub doctor in my ENTIRE life and im sticking to that. Funny she nor her office didn’t even call when I didn’t show up and it’s been almost a month since I was supposed to be there. Anyway I guess I could approach my family doctor for ambien but I just don’t really want him knowing what’s going on. I always thought we had a good relationship and he looks at me like a non f-up (if that makes sense) I guess I could always lie about why I can’t sleep but im a terrible liar lol

Drug dreams….man oh man drug dreams. Well I’ve only had one since I stopped but I remember them very well from my oxy wd days. They are the worst. I would wake up so mad at myself that I relapsed. It took me like an hour to realize I didn’t really relapse.

Speaking of being on subs and for how long. Is there any facts/theories that the wd is worst by how long you take the drug? I would have to guess that it’s harder the longer your on but can’t say that for sure. IDK, was just wondering. Honestly the 20 months I was on just flew by. One day I’m in for my first visit and the next, well here I am. From the beginning I kept saying ‘one more month’ but the closer I approached 2 years I finally made a plan, well kinda. I’m no way busting on anyone on long term. It’s just for me I was originally supposed to be on for like 3 months or something.

Thanks for the advice…hopefully tomorrow day 18 will be better. I guess it will be really better when I can stop counting days lol


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Substation and Rsjxrsj,

You guys are moving along so well. For the number of days y'all are at, you guys are light years ahead of where I was at at that time. I'm NOT trying to scare the snot out of you guys, but I made it to day 118 before I lost count. My wd sucked that hard. There's ONE other person that I met on this forum whose wd exerience lined up with mine and she jumped off 16mg of Suboxone!! Amazingly, her and I jumped off Suboxone within 3 days of each other, but her and I never "met" on the forum until we were both 8 or 9 months into our wd.

Anyway, I just wanted to assure you guys, you're both WAY ahead of the game.

Oh Yeah, the drug dreams. I remember having a dream a good while back where I was in my Suboxone Doctors office and I was back on Suboxone. I woke up mad as a hornet. I was furious that I had got back on Suboxone after that HELL wd that I went through. Boy, was I glad when I realized it was just a dream!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:47 am 
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Substation, you are doing wonderfully for how high you jumped! I really am amazed by your coping ability, because I know you've probably had some nasty days.

I really see nothing wrong with getting a script for Ambien after jumping off 12 mg Suboxone!! You don't have to explain that you just got off Sub, etc. Just say you are going through a period of having a very tough time sleeping. I'd recommend Lunesta, perhaps, because for many people it works consistently for a longer period. You need your sleep...bottom line. Personally, the Ambien and Lunesta don't give me a hangover, which is wonderful. Tylenol PM and Benadryl make me feel like crap the next day. Go figure.

You are my hero!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:34 pm 
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Thanks everyone….I would like to think I’m doing fairly well considering. Although to be honest I’m trying not to read horror stories right now. I figure after this is all done with I can go through them…don’t wanna scare myself. But I’m glad to hear I’m recovering fairly quick, although sometimes I don’t feel that way. It’s just the lingering stuff. I mean I’m past the mental depression, RLS, painful legs, ect. Right now it’s just my stomach, energy, and sleep problems. But I’ve said it before and ill say it again, I wouldn’t change a thing I did because like anything THIS WILL PASS!

Well last night I took ONE Tylenol PM and it worked GOOD and I mean too GOOD. I actually thought I would need two or three but one knocked me out within an hour. Problem is I forgot to take it early. My plan was to take it around 9pm but since I forgot I didn’t take it until 11pm. I was DEAD asleep by midnight but I didn’t hear my alarm clock and didn’t wake up until 10am. I was over 2 hours late for work, yet again. Luckily I have somewhat of a flexible schedule. Tonight I need to remember and stick to taking it at 9pm. Tomorrow I MUST be at work by 9am no if, ands, or buts…

So today is day 18 and I’m praying that I will feel ‘normal’ by day 30. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! :x


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Today is day 19 for me and nothing much to report. Just the normal lack of energy thing, but otherwise doing very well. My stomach felt pretty good today so that was a good thing. Couldn’t fall asleep last night until 3am and had to get up 8am for important meeting. I took one Tylenol PM but it didn’t work last night like it did the night before. In fact, I’m not sure it worked at all.

Just can’t wait until I straighten out this sleep thing and get some more energy. I can deal with the stomach problems if they arise again.

Hoping the weekend will help but not sure it will. I seem to do better when I’m busy. I get tired as hell when I’m just laying around :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:35 pm 
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substation wrote:
Today is day 19 for me and nothing much to report. Just the normal lack of energy thing, but otherwise doing very well. My stomach felt pretty good today so that was a good thing. Couldn’t fall asleep last night until 3am and had to get up 8am for important meeting. I took one Tylenol PM but it didn’t work last night like it did the night before. In fact, I’m not sure it worked at all.

Just can’t wait until I straighten out this sleep thing and get some more energy. I can deal with the stomach problems if they arise again.

Hoping the weekend will help but not sure it will. I seem to do better when I’m busy. I get tired as hell when I’m just laying around :roll:


I am confused: did you jump at 4mg or 12mg?? What was the worst WD symptom and do you think it is worse or easier than a full agonist?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Jenzo,

I jumped from 12mgs everyday for 20 months. Maybe the confusion is where I said ‘I took my last 4mgs’ that’s because I would take 8 in the am and 4 in the pm. Either way, yes 12mgs per day.

As far as the comparison between subs and full agonist it’s hard for me to say which one is easier. The full agonist wd lasted a fraction of the time but was way more intense. Suboxone wd was way less intense but lasted (and still lasting) much longer. So you can see why I can’t say one is easier than the other. It just depends….do you wanna suffer BAD for a couple days? Or suffer a little for weeks?

No one has asked me the worst wd symptom so I had to think about this one. With that being said it would have to be LACK OF ENERGY. It gets better but from day 5 through day 10 it was unreal. It felt like I hadn’t slept in 36 hours but I felt that way ALL DAY. I’m sure you know the other wd symptoms so I won’t go into all of them. Maybe it’s just me, but to be totally honest it really isn’t all that bad.

Hope that helps!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Hey Substation! 19 days! So close!

I been waitin' to see if you got yourself some decent sleep... Dammit that sucks the PM Stopped working the next night... That's what I was talkin' about earlier, I could never get that stuff to work for very long, I was hoping it'd work more than just one day for you. I can tell you, with me, when my stomach started to behave and I had a good stomach day? That was the beginning of better things all the way around! It's when my energy started coming back and my fatigue started to fade. So I'm really hoping you progress in the same fashion! I'll also 2nd the staying busy part. I have a crazy stressful job and my work-day starts at 7:30a.m., I mean I am THERE and getting hit hard at 7:30a.m. and I think that's why I'm able to get to sleep by 10pm... I wake up way early now anyway, I haven't heard my alarm go off in weeks, I'm up before 5am usually... where when I was on subs it was a struggle to be up by 6. You're definitely kicking serious ass Substation!!

-RSJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:46 pm 
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Yeah RSJ…ya know when you were talking about it working only 3 days for you I was thinking you weren’t remembering correctly or something else was going on, but I guess not. It’s crazy it didn’t work because that day I had woken up early also. I thought I had reset my clock and with the PM, that night would be cake. Guess sometimes I’m just not right lol

So I talked to my mom today and told her I was having trouble sleeping. She didn’t understand why and I didn’t want to tell her why. So knows about my past drug use but thinks I’ve been clean for years lol anyway she was asking me all kinds of questions including asking me if it was drug related. Anyway the point is she takes ambien and she was able to sacrifice 3 of them. I’m going to try one tonight and see how it goes. If it goes well I may end up sucking it up and going to my family doctor and asking him for them. IDK though because I feel like any day now I’ll be sleeping fine and will not need them. IDK I’m confused but I guess it can’t hurt to have them


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:06 pm 
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That's awesome Substation, I don't see anything wrong at all with having some Ambien on hand. I've got some in the cabinet still I don't even take anymore! And those actually came from my Sub Dr. so he obviously didn't see anything wrong with it either. I was thinking about Jenzo's question about what was the worst symptoms? For me it was the insomnia, because the sleep deprivation only aggravated the other symptoms and negatively affected my overall attitude... Like Ladder said, bottom line you need your sleep buddy, good sleep... A good stomach day AND a few good nights sleep... You're gonna feel so much better I'm sure of it!

-RSJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Oh and LaddeTipper said it! Thank goodness for mommies!
:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Hey substation,

A few days of Ambien won't hurt you. I took them for a week or two....not every night though. I didn't want to get dependent on them.

I think rotating between different sleep meds may help?

Keep going Bud, it gets better.....it does take time though. Remember, you are a warrior!!! You are tough as nails dude!!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:46 pm 
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substation wrote:
Jenzo,

I jumped from 12mgs everyday for 20 months. Maybe the confusion is where I said ‘I took my last 4mgs’ that’s because I would take 8 in the am and 4 in the pm. Either way, yes 12mgs per day.

As far as the comparison between subs and full agonist it’s hard for me to say which one is easier. The full agonist wd lasted a fraction of the time but was way more intense. Suboxone wd was way less intense but lasted (and still lasting) much longer. So you can see why I can’t say one is easier than the other. It just depends….do you wanna suffer BAD for a couple days? Or suffer a little for weeks?

No one has asked me the worst wd symptom so I had to think about this one. With that being said it would have to be LACK OF ENERGY. It gets better but from day 5 through day 10 it was unreal. It felt like I hadn’t slept in 36 hours but I felt that way ALL DAY. I’m sure you know the other wd symptoms so I won’t go into all of them. Maybe it’s just me, but to be totally honest it really isn’t all that bad.


I was thinking that. I mean, I will have about a week of help so I was going to wait till like day 3-4 then vacate to be taken care of by family. I jumped methadone at 45mg cold turkey and the wd lasted about a week, with intense wds about 4 days. that was horrific shit. h is terrible and dilaudids are bad too...so if subs are just kinda crappy for a few weeks, im gonna jump at 2mg because this taper shit is really just retarded for me. id rather just get it over with!
thanks!

Hope that helps!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:48 am 
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Hopefully you will get three really good night's sleep with the Ambien and that will turn things around for you. Most people say once they sleep they feel significantly better. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:58 am 
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RsjxRsj wrote:
Oh and LaddeTipper said it! Thank goodness for mommies!
:lol:


Oh geez. Now I know I am truly getting old, lol. :lol:

I'd take some Ambien right now if I had some!!!!!

I think the sleep issues may be a slow return to normal. I tapered sooooo low, but I was on Sub for nearly 6 years. I'm really struggling to sleep! No matter how tired, my brain cannot make that final little jump from relaxed and worn out to asleep. And then, 'BING'.....at 5 or 6, there is goes turning on again.

I'm just wondering if at some point, when we all regain our ability to sleep, we will be totally pooped and sleeping 12 hours a night to make up for all the lost sleep. OR did I/we already make up for all this lost sleep back in the day when I/we would sleep a loooonggg time every single night, because of being on a high Sub dose. Who knows? This must be pretty stressful on one's body to be going without sufficient sleep for an extended period.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:56 pm 
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I have amboen, xanax xr and regular xanax. The ambien I've never tried but seeing this ill prob use it when I jump in December . Good luck !


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