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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:22 pm 
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I was on suboxone for the past two years, and subutex for the last 3-4 months. My doctor thought it was contributing to serotonin syndrome, which is why she switched me. When that provided no relief, I decided to just get off it ASAP so I could return to school in the summer (I've taken medical leave the past two semesters because of the side effects). I've been miserable and completely non-functional for the past two years, and I really felt like I could not endure another day so I decided to go into a detox to get off it quickly instead of the long taper.

I read a bunch about people saying it's not nearly as bad as oxy, it's a really mild withdrawal, etc. So I went into detox on the 6th and went from 12mg to nothing in 4 days. Honestly, I felt fine. I was discharged on the 12th and thought I was in the clear. Then on the 13th I started to get really dehydrated (I have an ileostomy, which is a bitch during WD) and weak. By the 15th, I was in full blown withdrawal. And honestly, I've kicked IV dilaudid cold turkey, I've kicked oxy cold turkey on the day I had surgery- but this.... this is just brutal. I ended up in the ER on the 16th for fluids.

So today is my 11th day clean. When I stand up, I get dizzy and lose my vision. I feel so weak that I can hardly move. When is this going to end? I know there isn't much advice to be given, but... jesus, has anyone else had this hard of a time?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:41 pm 
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I feel for you, Chelsea.

I can't say that I've been in your shoes. It might be the really high jump or it might be some underlying issues, or a combination. I wish I had some good advice for you. If it's just normal detoxy crap, I'd tell you to stay as hydrated as you can, take it easy, use OTC meds to get through. If it's from something else as well, I wouldn't want you to ignore symptoms. Besides standing up and feeling dizzy, what else are you going through right now? List it all out.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't feel good during my jump and it took more than 30 days to get through my symptoms but I didn't have it this bad. I jumped a lot lower though.

Can you tell me more about how you're feeling?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:02 am 
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Hey Chelsea,

Welcome to the forum!

I'm sorry to hear that you're having it so rough. You jumped from a high dose and I'm guessing that's 90% of your symptoms. I came off Suboxone very similar to you. I was at about 12mg, I only tapered for a few days, then quit. My wd was brutal. I had kicked Hydro's before....many times, but Suboxone wd just lasts so long. It wasn't quite as intense as Hydro wd, but it was damn close and again, it lasts so long. The only thing that trumped my Suboxone wd was when I accidentally precipitated wd off a high dose of OxyContin.

My Suboxone wd peaked on day 10. Most of the time Suboxone wd peaks closer to day 7 or so, but I think us high jumpers have to deal with a few more days before we peak.

Can you get your doctor to give you some Clonidine? Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. Clonidine is about the best thing I took during my wd. I had some Xanax's, they helped too, but those suckers are so addictive that you have to be very careful with them. Clonidine is NOT addictive and it HELPS.

I am a little concerned, as TinyDancer is, with some of your symptoms. I understand you have an ileostomy, but I don't know if that would contribute to some of the symptoms you're having? Feeling like complete shit after jumping from a high dose of Suboxone is normal, but I don't remember being dizzy or losing my vision. Well, technically I lost my vision on night 9 after not sleeping for more than a week, I hallucinated.....but I don't think that's what's happening to you?

Have you been sleeping at all? Have you been keeping your fluids up? Have you been eating at all?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:47 pm 
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I think the majority of the way I feel is due to the ostomy. I mean, I'm missing everything from the beginning of my small intestine down, so my daily norm is ...yeah, you know. Pretty bad. So in WD it's just...out of control. Everything I put in my mouth comes out 20 minutes later totally undigested. I feel like I'm not making any headway with fluids. It's just in and out.

I'm not sure if Imodium helps or hurts. I have to take 6-8 pills at a time for any effects, and taking it long term and then stopping will cause a rebound effect. As for other symptoms, my legs are killing me. They've been throbbing all day and all night. I'm nauseous as all hell. I'm able to sleep for a couple hours at a time but I jolt awake in sheer panic with my heart thumping out of my chest. And holy shit, the RLS (restless LIMBS, not just legs). I did get some clonidine in the ER and that helps a ton but my BP bottoming out when I get up isn't too great either. I should have mentioned that dehydration makes me dizzy and weak normally, and I think that with the clonidine is why I'm blacking out when I stand.

My appetite isn't good, of course. I'm home alone most of the time and I don't even have the energy to make something that takes more effort than pulling it out of a cabinet. But really, worst of all is just how listless, depressed, and emotional I feel. I cry all fucking day. I sit in the dark, blast Joy Division and bawl my fucking eyes out in self pity. I worked so, SO fucking hard to get clean two years ago and I just can't even comprehend that this is where I am today. I'm pissed that my surgeon didn't sew me up right and my insides rotted from e.coli for over a year while it drained from these gaping wounds and there was nothing anybody could do about it, there were no antibiotics effective against it and I shot dilaudid into my hickman catheter because I was going to die anyways. I'm fucking pissed that I lived. That one mistake has ruined my life and my body. The infection ate away at my pancreas and now I have chronic pancreatitis that fucking kills every day. The infection got into my hip and that hip fucking kills every day. I go to Northeastern in Boston where I'm studying neuroscience and I don't even fucking want that anymore. All I want is for everyone to give up on me so I can stop this pain. I have fought far too hard for this, and I just don't want to anymore. I'm only 22 years old and I have spent every. single. day. in pain since I was 6.

I don't know. This withdrawal is just way more than I was prepared for. If I had known, I would have just done oxy for a couple weeks and detoxed off that. Fuck.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Phew, you're in a hard spot, no doubt about it. You have some serious physical issues you're dealing with and you still have a lot of resentment and hate for where you're at. I can't say that I blame you, but I can say those resentments aren't doing you any damn good. I'm absolutely not trying to be an ass about your situation, not at all. I'm just saying that all the hate you have right now is not good for you. If I were you, I'd get in with some kind of counselor....pronto.

Please don't take offense to anything I say, I'm honestly only trying to help, OK?

Sitting in the dark while blasting Joy Division and bawling your eyes out ain't helping you either. Somehow, you need to stop doing that. Turn the lights on or go outside and just sit on the porch for a few minutes at a time. Find a new CD to listen to, turn on the radio instead. Indulging in self pity isn't getting you anywhere.....and you know that.

I know this is gonna sound impossible, but you have to find some way to get out of your head, Chelsea. As long as you sit there focusing on all of your symptoms, all you're gonna experience is those symptoms. Forcing yourself to get up and do shit right now is HARD AS HELL, I know it is, but it's also about the best way forward.

As for the fluids, have you tried Gatorade or even Pedialyte? Those drinks have important electrolytes that will help your body.

Also, can you ask your doctor about the Imodium? Taking Imodium for a week or so may help you, but not hurt you enough to where you rebound?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:35 pm 
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I am praying for you that the symptoms will subside, and you can remain strong through this. I also tried to quit cold turkey after taking 12+ mgs/day for several years. I was under the assumption sub withdrawals werent as severe as the opiates i was taking. Boy was I wrong. The duration and halflife of subs is unlike anything Ive ever experienced. I dont really have the answers for you, because I only made it 2 weeks before I succumbed to the sleeplessness of the sub withdrawal. I was about to be homeless at the time and getting to work was a necessity. I was unable to complete my detox and relapsed back on. I do know what you are going thru tho, Ive been there, and I pray you have the strength to make it to the other side. You are almost out of the woods now chelsea. Just think about how much better your going to feel. It isnt meant to be easy, and will always serve as a reminder as to why we wont/dont ever want to go back to that place. I am starting the weening process now myself, and after being on sub for 5 years Im ready to get this done with.
I will second the last comment, imodium was a must for me the first 10 days or so. Try your best to get some fluids and vitamins in your system. I would suggest the BRAT diet. Please keep us updated on your progress, Im praying for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Any update on this chelsea? How are you feeling todaY?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:58 pm 
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I dunno... still not too good. :?

I ended up going to the ER again on friday because I couldn't stop vomiting every hour or so and my stomach was killing me. They gave me quite a bit of morphine and dilaudid. Then on saturday they found out I had a history of addiction and switched me to....tylenol :roll:

Of course I didn't bring my clonidine or tell them I was taking it so I went into withdrawal pretty bad. That day was absolute hell. Finally that night they gave me clonidine and trazadone and I slept for the first time in weeks. Unfortunately my roommate was an 80 year old woman whose son kept jacking the heat up to 90. That really, really sucked. But, they worked all weekend to get me into detox or rehab again but my insurance wouldn't cover it because apparently I hadn't used enough :lol:

So, I got discharged home on sunday. Went to a meeting on monday night and met a bunch of awesome students. That really raised my spirits a ton.

The only thing that gets me to sleep is dramamine. Then I wake up soaked in sweat a few hours later when it's time to take more clonidine and I can't get back to sleep without more dramamine. I'm having such vivid dreams that I honestly have to really think about what actually happened or what was just a dream.

I think the worst symptom is how tired and weak the clonidine makes me. I live on the 4th floor so going out to smoke is BRUTAL. I'm dizzy and out of breath by the second floor. The one thing that really sucks about boston is how much you have to walk to do anything or get anywhere. Most meetings are out of the question because I really just can't make it there.

But anyways, Romeo, there is really not much that offends me. I know you're right and trying to help. I absolutely do have a huge amount of resentment for my surgeon. It was an unbelievable case of gross negligence. But, at this point there is not much that can be done. I don't know how or why I survived an infection with a 94% mortality rate, but for whatever reason, I did, and this is where it's brought me. The only solace is telling myself that experiencing addiction firsthand is excellent training for my career and that someday I will put it to good use.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Wow Chelsea,

I am so sorry you are having to deal with all this. Detox is hard enough when you don't have to deal with physical pain not associated with withdrawal. I can't imagine how hard it is for you. I guess that there isn't anything else to say except that you are going to have to figure out how bad you want to get sober and get your life back. It sounds like you could come up with a ton of legitimate reasons to give up and go back to using, but if you want to get sober you have to find some way to pick up the pieces and re-focus on what is important to you. This is not going to be easy, but if you tough it out it will get better. The withdrawal will not last forever...even though it feels like it is going to when you are going through it.

Honestly, I am so glad I read your post. I will be praying for you. Please let us know how you are doing every so often. Your story has helped me put my struggles into perspective. There is always someone in this world who is hurting worse than we are. And you usually don't have to look too hard to find them. Just focus on your strengths. Look at everything you have been through. You survived something with a 94% mortality rate! That shows what you can do! You are a survivor and you will survive this too! Hang in there honey...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Hi, I happened on your thread and was overwhelmed with compassion for what you must be dealing with. My heart goes out to you. I am sure you have done your homework and by all means do not wish to suggest what I am about to recommend thinking you may have not already considered. I was going to interject you may want to try re-inducting to sub at a much lower dose (now that you are well into withdrawal) - re-induct to 1mg or lower -? the fact you are suicidal mindset, in such a manic state you are not helping yourself at all. Even when we taper, i was told if you drop when you are not ready or having alot of anxiety and difficulty on the dose you are on..that negative energy follows you down and makes it much harder. Similar to how Romeo said if you concentrate on the withdrawals they are so much more powerful. Well if you shock your system with distress, that tends to stay with you much more too. For me, I have found it great advise to taper slow..adjust, then drop again at a pace that has proven effective. Yes, we are all different but we can get good reasonable objective advice. For me, dropping every 4 days at 25% was consistently doable. When I got below 3mg, I dropped at 15 to 20% and then listened to my body to sit on that dose for as long as I felt I needed too. Could be 5 days, 2 weeks or over a month. I knew when I knew to drop. But it does help to have a schedule as a guide.

yes, people have jumped above 1mg (Romeo, you are awe inspiring to have done what you did at 12mg) however in a situation such as yours where you are physically in distress (surgery, etc.) you need to be extra kind to yourself. Dropping off a drug is like throwing yourself in front of a bus. I realize that everyone is different. I for one, you could label as one that is "all or nothing". With full agonist opiates (as with everything..exercise, coffee, work,) I tend to have the obsessive/compulsive approach. With that said, you would think with drugs, jumping would be the alternative for me. I have found though with Sub it actually NOT impossible to taper. If done with a plan, it is doable and manageable dropping slowly getting closer to the finish line without massive upset - YES it can be done. I will post my success after I get off. I am still at 1mg but tomorrow will continue the journey downward. I will post back and let you all know my success but I actually believe in the source of my success (God) and the process (God inspired) There is no need to jump if you have the time and willingness to reconsider tapering. I

Anyway, here is the helpful link if interested:
http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-dru ... 50887.html


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:16 pm 
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But theres many people who did a slow taper yet suffered withdrawals and paws 4 or 6 months down the line and relapsed, the depression seems to be the worst symptom ever..Too many people report of suicide feelings after suboxone for to be ignored that its not to do with suboxone or taper.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Thanks for the support and encouragement everyone. It does help.

As for re-introducing subs... I just can't. I can't go through this again. I won't. I'm not saying I won't relapse someday because obviously that can't be known, but I know that I won't ever choose opiate replacement again. I would never willingly choose to go into the hell of methadonia, and if I had known that this is how subs would affect me, I never would have taken them either. Plus, no doctor in their right mind would prescribe them to me given the serotonin toxicity as it can be fatal. The withdrawal isn't even 100% the reason why I hate subs, its the fact that it gave me serotonin syndrome that went undiagnosed for two years. Two years of fevers, tremors, constantly being drenched in sweat, confusion, and nobody being able to recognize or understand why I was so sick was hell. I had to go on hormone replacement therapy because my endocrinologist thought I had gone into premature menopause. It's just crazy that subs did this to my body.

But anyways, today is... day 31 maybe? And today has been the first day that I could even see the light at the end of the tunnel. I haven't taken any clonidine today and I have so much more energy. Also a bit more anxious and sweaty, but I think I can deal with that for now. I called the detox I went to and they have a bed open at their 30 day program. HOPEFULLY I can get in either tomorrow or sunday. I just really feel like I need the structure and socialization. I feel really, really fucking lucky that I have the time and means to be able to go to a program. I can't even imagine what this is like for those of you with jobs and families and other responsibilities.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:52 pm 
I am absolutely amaze at your stubborness to get off at a high dose. and stay firm in staying away! I to jumped off at 12mg's for 7 days. I probably wasn't even close to peaking in the withdraw and i KNOW the terror this drug can cause physically and mentally. You are a strong strong person. Dare i say you are tougher then me. At day 7, i almost "snapped" to the point where i was going to voluntarily check into a pysch ward. I seriously had a huge bellringer of a wake up call as to what the hell this drug is doing to me overall.

You are at day 31? That is AWESOME!!! You are just over the peak right now! Don't let youself have that option of going back. Oh god, after a month of THAT 12mg cold turkey feeling. I could only imagining headbutting a brick wall would be better then go back to sub and resetting all the progress and HEALING your brain is doing. Seriously, maybe try a very small amount of xanax or something for anxiety. 0.25 mg's of it for like 5-7 days. Try to avoid taking anything that messes with your opiate receptors as you are doing very good in letting those heal. I am envious in how far you have gotten. Seriously, you are seperating yourself from the pact of sub users. and further solidifying yourself as a person who is independent of the pain pill vice that strangles our lives.

I freaking RESPECT your choice in getting the hell out of dodge. I can only imagine it's still going to be tough. But you are OVER the peak! It's going to be a slow slow decline. But you now getting closer and closer to that prize at the end. Absolute freedom of painpills!!! Depression, anxiety, lethargy, insomnia, and cravings are going to be your new battles now. But everytime you find a way to beat those symptoms without taking anything addictive. Those symptoms will very slowly let up in intensity.

You have done a huge step in recovery that most people don't have the inner strength to attempt. Be apart of that statistic that can come back and let people know it can be done! It's certainly going to be hard. But i swear to the heavens above it can be done. You CAN release yourselfs from the chain and ball. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't, or coach you back into saying "it's just easier to stay on this painkiller or that painkiller" Only and i mean only come back to this stuff (or any other painpill) if you are prepared to lock the padlock down on yourself.

You freaking rock! Keep updating! I'll stay a fan of yours. ::envying the thought of being without a vice::


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Hey Crystal,

I admire your determination to stay off Suboxone. My determination and stubborness is basically what got me through my wd. With that said, I'm also REALLY glad to hear that you're checking into a rehab facility. Getting off drugs and learning to live a happy and productive life once off drugs are two different things. Rehab will help you with both.

At this point in your wd, your brain still hasn't healed itself. It's got a lot of damn loose wires and it's trying to figure out where to plug those suckers back in. I'm glad you had a good day, but you may have some crumby ones too as your brain continues to heal itself. If there's one thing about my wd I'll never forget, it's the dang up and downs.

Just a side note, I was basically day 30 before I saw any light at the end of the tunnel, so you're not alone there. Keep hanging in there, things will get better, it just takes time.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:09 am 
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Hey guys, im on my phone so i just wanted to give you all a quick update, cause im on my way to rehab and im PSYCHED about it! Ive heard nothing but awesome things and its run by the detox i went to which was an incredible place. So any of you new englanders, i cant reccomend Gosnold treatment center enough!

I'll be back on april 14th!

And romeo, i think it clearly does take a while for your brain to heal- my username is chelsea, not crystal LOL!! Just bustin your balls :wink: Youve been a huge help!

Thanks everyone for the support!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Good luck in rehab! I so wish i could go with you :)

I have read your whole thread and just wanted to say I really admire your determination. Please come back and update us and tell us how great you feel when out!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:25 pm 
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CHELSEA, (not Crystal!!!) LOL,

Good luck in rehab!!!

Stay in touch if you can and let us know how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:19 am 
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That's awesome that you got into the treatment center you wanted! I bet you'll be feeling a lot better by the time you get back out! Make sure you come back on April 14th and let us know how it went. You've really been through the ringer and I have high hopes that rehab will really help you mentally as well as physically!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:10 pm 
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After 31 days that's gotta be a vacation of a life time :).

Bravo Chelsea! Incredibly impressive fortitude and will to push through that much of a nightmare.

-WantToBeFREE


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