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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:23 am 
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So, I know there is no "normal" in this little game we call opiate wd and the accompaning symptopms, but I had a couple of questions none the less.

Like I said, Im 18 days out, and it hasnt been NEARLY as bad as I thought other than this crazy anxiety that I have ALL day. I am getting 6-7 hrs of sleep with out issue. If I drink 2-3 beers, all anxiety is gone. I did get some Valium from my doc prior to my jump, but not only do I not want to take that due to its addictive nature, but when I have taken it during the day it just knocks me out for an hr or two...and then we're back to square one with the anxiety again upon waking back up.

Other than that, some crazy sneezing fits (what the hell is that all about lol), and general lack of energy throughout the day im good to go.

I know that im lucky in a LOT of ways not habing gone through some of the really bad wd's, but coming up on nearly 3 weeks, shouldnt this anxiety atleast be starting to subside or lessen in intensity?

Im just hoping it wasnt/isnt a pre existing condition that was being covered up by the methadone I use to take and suboxone.....Cause I'll deal with anxiety for life before I start taking some pill again everyday. (this condition would have had to start while I was on the methadone or sub because i didnt have anxiety like this prior to starting either)

As always, thanks to any and all who have helped me through this!!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:20 am 
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Hey wickd,

I know when I quit it seemed like my Central Nervous System was shot. I had shakes in my hands and whatnot. I'm not sure, but I think if your CNS took a hit like mine did, it could be causing the anxiety? My CNS issues got better steadily, but it certainly seemed to take it's time getting better. I'm sorry, but I couldn't even hazard a guess as to when in my recovery the CNS improved? I just don't remember the when part, but I do remember it got better!!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:48 pm 
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Thanks Romeo!

Yeah, its crazy cause its not your typical anxiety (if there is such a thing), its more of this constant anxiety that will allow me to even sit "semi" still but at the same time it sits there and reeks havok on my internals...just SO, SO annoying and aggitating. I think I would almost be completely fine with it if it was one or another but its like my body is exhausted but my CNS is going haywire.... So if I were to drink a redbull to wake up from my exhaustion it would just aggitate the anxiety further, but on the other hand if i take a benzo it makes me zombi-esk at best and pass out....no normalacy or evening things out here....SUCKS.

In addition, i think my BIGGEST issue is the fact that im not seeing any improvement but rather a steady increase of things in the anxiety dept getting worse.... not even a rollor coaster effect to where things are good one day then bad the next///repeat, just progressivly getting worse here at nearly 3 weeks post last sub.

And to top it all off, as I mentioned in my OP, if i drink a couple of beers...and Im not talking about getting wasted here, Im literally talking 2-3 BudLights....ALL is well with the anxiety. Very odd medically and/or chemically if you ask me considering ive taken 10-15mgs of valium and it barely took the edge off, yet Budweiser has a wd cure in my case for less than $3.25

-Frustrated


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:23 pm 
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Hey wickd,

I always thought that alcohol was a depressant, so I google searched 'alcohol depressant' and found this "Alcohol is a depressant, which means it slows the function of the central nervous system."

I guess it makes perfect sense as to why alcohol would seem to relax you so well.

This goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway so we don't get bombarded with the obvious comments of how we don't want to switch one addiction with another.....please be careful with your alcohol consumption, OK?

PS----a correction to my earlier post about my CNS issues getting steadily better. I feel stupid for saying this now, but the CNS issues degraded during the first couple of few weeks to a low point THEN got steadily(but SLOWLY) better. I'm sorry for the confusion I may have caused you. BTW, I'm 9.5 months off sub and I still feel some of the shakes, albeit very, very mild.


Last edited by Romeo on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:34 pm 
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When I quit sub, I do recall lingering anxiety. I do recall it lasting a long time. It did get better with time but it was very slow. It is "possible" that it is getting worse because you may be thinking about the anxiety more and thinking about how it isn't going away and all of the thinking about it could just increase it. This versus earlier on, when you likely thought "well this sucks but it will probably go away in time" which is a thought that may help ease the anxiety previously. This isn't to say your CNS isn't haywire as I am sure it is and recall having all sorts of strange problems when I quit. But our thoughts to impact the severity.

With that being said, if you want to try something non-addictive, you could ask your doctor for some neurontin. I took that for a time when I quit and found that it did help considerably. It unfortunately also made me very stupid as I increased the dose.

Good luck.

-Jack

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:28 am 
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jc

Thanks for taking the time to reply and try and help me along here...

I again went to see a DR last night and its so BEYOND me that the first statement out of their supposed "medically professional" mouths is "maybe getting you back on sub is the answer here"... Again, not that im against any sort of sub maint that helps people, but that wasnt, and ISNT where im at ya know.

Then they ask the infamous, "what do you think we can do to fix this" ..... c'mon, really?? Im here paying you the MD to help me get through this, you want to know what most certainly WILL fix all my phisical issues doc...put me on some oxy or somethin...guaranteed my wd symptoms will be gone the second I get that shiz up my nose. Not even remotely close to what I want, but is that really what they want to hear so they can move on the next patient they're going to'help'?--- SO aggrrivating.

Either way, I was and am just hoping in some small way that I will be able to wake up tomorrow and have it in my head (and body) that this crazy anxiety will be. and is lessenng in some sense of the word.

I know it sounds like Im whinning, and I know for a fact that folks here have gone through MUCH worse WD wise and made it work, but If im being honest, I cant keep downing 2 beers every 4 hrs to get this feeling to subside. And I know EVERY addict on this planet says this, but im really not an alcoholic.... A druggie, YES, but the 2 brews pre 10am is not getting me buzzed or filling some sorrt of addictive void, its just making this hill im climbing more tolerable. Im sure if I took all the benzos that were perscribled Id be ok, , passed out prolly yes, but anxiety ridden, no. Just not the answer Im looking for from a medical perspective.

l will def check into the nerotonin avenue. if its non habit forming and can get me through, Im all about it.....just wish I had an idea of how long this whole "gettin through" was gonna last ya know.. But as you and many others have said, everyone is different, and i can only hope that in time this will pass....


PS - "TIME", hurry the hell up!!!!

THanks everyone!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:55 pm 
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I so feel for you! I haven't had to face the ongoing anxiety, but I've gotten a taste of it. I'll be asleep and wake up and sit up in bed with a jolt from it. Then, it seems to subside, but it's the weirdest and worst feeling. I am NOT looking forward to having to deal with that feeling over any extended period of time. You are smart to not be going the benzo route. I'm on Klonopin and I know it will be a bitch to get off, but for now I'm just holding my dose steady at .5 mg a day and weathering the anxiety storms. I don't want a BIGGER Klon problem when I finally get off this Suboxone stuff.

I'd really try the neurontin. I'm not on it but my best friend takes it. She literally just jumped off Sub yesterday. The neurontin makes her feel better because she says it helps her skin not crawl. I think I'm getting the skin crawling thing. I cannot stand air hitting my skin at all. I feel like it makes me cold or something, but the sensation absolutely just freaks me out. I cannot stand even a three-quarters sleeve shirt! It's so odd.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:15 pm 
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wickd,

Shit, I'm sorry I forgot to mention this to you. I took Clonidine and it helped with my CNS symptoms a LOT. It's a blood pressure med that is prescribed off label for opiate wd. Go to your doctor, get your BP checked and see if you can get on Clonidine. I was taking .1mg twice daily.

I remember taking my first dose of Clonidine and about an hour later thinking, Holy Crap....this stuff actually helps!

I'm not saying it's going to wipe out your anxiety, but it may help and it's a hell of a lot better than 2 beers every few hours. It's worth a try.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:28 pm 
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I had issues ( demons ) to deal with when I got under 2mg of Suboxone, You could very easily have other shit going on, These psych problems can only be handeled 1 at a time, getting off the Suboxone is trama no matter how you cut it.. 18 days off Suboxone is not enough time for a Dr to make a call on depression or bipolar issues, Also, try the .5mg Zanax ER, its the safest and the smallest dose amount, they say its much more difficult to become dependant on because its ER, Good Luck to you, Mike PS: Hey Romeo


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:37 pm 
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wickd--congrats to you for 3 weeks without sub! I just wanted to let you know about my experience. EVERYONE is different, so we have to take that into consideration, however, I think many people underestimate withdrawal from Suboxone. It will be a year in June that I took my last Sub, and to this day, HOWEVER NOT HALF, HALF, HALF as bad, I am still feeling some after effects of the withdrawal. I too, get anxiety now, that I know I didn't have before getting on Suboxone, or before my addiction for that matter. I jumped from 24 mg of Suboxone cold turkey (HORRIBLE mistake btw) and went through full fledge w/d without any meds, except for motrin. I too, found myself drinking a couple beers here and there to calm my nerves, or at least to stop my skin from crawling, and it did work, but is risky to do. However, after a few months as I slowly started feeling better I didn't drink anything, and didn't feel the need to. The worst for me was depression. Just last week, I finally started an antidepressant, giving up trying to be bull headed and dealing with it without meds. Whats important to remember is, no matter how long the w/d lasts...when things get better, or when they get worse, and not having a set date to know when they will get better....the best thing about this all is knowing what you are doing. You are working your ass off to get through this, and you will reap the benefits of this, I promise. Knowing you are doing this, that you are off subs, that you are free from any drug, is such an amazing feeling. You will get there.

Keep on holding your head up high. You can and will do this.

--Sarah


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:19 am 
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Just curious sarah, what anti-depressant did u start? I would like to get on something also..


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:38 pm 
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My 2 cents. I took Pristiq while getting off sub to help with the anxiety. It helped.

Anxiety...never had it before I took pills. It is definately a long lingering side effect. I'm coming up on a year out and have almost no anxiety anymore but once in a blue moon it rears it's head. I've stopped drinking coffee (god how I miss it) and that's helped along with vitamins, herbal tea (girlfirend got me started on that and it helps), working out, etc. It passes, the anxiety passes. Do whatever you have to do to combat it. Sometimes I used to just take a melatonin and sleep it off...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:58 pm 
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Hi Sarahsweet,

I just read your post and I went like :shock: :shock: :shock: !!

You jumped from 24mg? Holy Smokes dude? You must be tough as nails!! I jumped from 5mg and I thought that was high.

Hey, I jumped June 4th/2010, I see where you say you jumped in June of last year too....cool!

I can totally relate to what you said in your post and I like how you said it.

You keep your head up high too!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Thanks for all of the replies EVERYONE, it really does help.
Hawker - Funny you mention the "Pristiq" my doc that gave me the script for Clonodine also gave me a script for Pristiq. I've tried SSRIs before and the side effects were nuts, so I switched to Wellbutrin. But I recently stopped the wellbutrin for a bit because it can actually hype me up a little bit and thats the last thing I wanted. Do you know if there is any difference between Pristiq and other SSRIs?? THANKS

So anyhow, Im at day 23-24 I guess, somewhere in there.. And I think things are getting a little better. I went and got some Clonodine (.01mg) and that does help with the anxiety for sure. Makes me really tired though.

I cant remember where on here I read this, or who posted it, but i remember someone saying that sub w/d is a "ROLLERCOASTER". That is SO true. Yesterday I went about my day and everything was good to go, I felt atleast 30% better than the day prior. So, I was so stoked by yesterday night thinking that tomorrow (today) was going to be even better.....wrong. Today was just a crappy day, no motivation, mood sucked, anxiety off and on..blah blah. (just a little disclaimer, other than the anxiety, none of these "symptoms" that i describe are bad at ALL, but they're still present none the less).

I havent had any alcohol since getting the Clonodine a couple of days ago, and I would say that the clonodine does a better job than the alcohol.

So, I guess thats about it, just wanted to thank everyone for continuing to respond and help me through this.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:24 pm 
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I'm sure there are many of us on here who have compared Suboxone wd to a rollercoaster ride (not the good kind of roller coaster either!) because that is one of the best descriptors ever found for it. I've detoxed off Hydro's and Oxy's before and those detoxes are like a straight descent into hell, no up's and down's....just down, down, down....then somewhere around the 4 day mark it peaks and from there on out it gets better. I don't know why sub wd produces the rollercoaster phenomenon in a lot of us, but it does.

I am SO glad you gave the Clonidine a shot. I think you meant to say that you're taking .1mg, that's the dose I was on. I took it twice daily and found it helped greatly with all my CNS symptoms. I stayed on it for months and months and months and then tapered off of it too.....BTW....the Clonidine taper was a piece of cake!

Thanks for the update wickd and I'm glad to hear you're doing better. Hang in there, man!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:53 pm 
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Romeo-

Thanks for the encouragement bud, much appreciated!

Yeah, .1mg of Clonodine is what i meant, sorry bout that. At night, I welcome the drowsiness, but during the day it just adds to my already lethargic ass which kinda sucks. That said, I'd rather be groggy during the day than deal with all the CNS stuff. Weird how a blood pressure med could make the impact it does with wd's.....who knew eh?

The title of this entire SECTION should read "Stopping Suboxone, GET CLONODINE" rather than the current.. That stuff's a God send.

Thanks again


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