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 Post subject: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:30 pm 
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This is my third go around with dependency.

First time, it was prescribed opiates for herniated disks.

Second time, it was Tramadol I was self-medicating a bum knee with.

This time, it is a string of knee and back surgeries, proceeded by gall bladder surgery.

When I started on this latest journey through hell (with the pain) I was very frank with my pain doctor about my past issues. We discussed options, and we came to the conclusion that opiates would be the best option for pain control. I asked about when everything was over, where would that leave me, and he promised, sincerely, that he wouldn't leave me twisting in the wind.

There are several issues that made me seek detox. For one, getting the script filled, even when it's due to be filled, was proving to be a challenge. I also didn't like how I behaved when I would start to get pill sick. I was irritable, grouchy, anxious, and constantly sick. I felt like crap and looked like three miles of bad road in a rainstorm.

I made an appointment with my pain doctor, to talk about cleaning myself up. This is my first week of Suboxone. It's been kinda rough, though. I started on Monday evening, and at first I thought I had found The Magic Bullet. No withdrawals whatsoever within a minute of putting the first 4mg under my tongue.

Three hours later, I was higher than I have ever been in my entire life. I have had alcohol to the point of passing out, and hadn't been as high as that. And then, the nausea hit me.

I had been warned about the nausea, but didn't think it would be that big of a deal. I didn't even mind barfing my brains out (the first night). I called my pain doctor for advice on how to get relief. The pain doctor called in a script for an anti-nausea medication on Wednesday. Before I tried that pill, I was ready to give up on the Suboxone. (I don't know how I would have done it, but yeah. Not being able to keep food or water down for three days will make you resolve to not ever do whatever caused it again).

I tried to not use the anti-nausea medicine today, and made it all the way to the three hour mark from my morning dose of Suboxone when the nausea hit me. I was hoping that today would be the day that I had reached a point that I was used to the drug.

I see my pain doctor again on Monday to discuss how I'm doing, and whether or not to increase the dosage to build an even higher level until we do a taper, or if this drug isn't the right fit, what would be a better option, etc.

I feel blessed to have the pain doctor that I do. He seems to genuinely care, and believes wholeheartedly that dependency is a disease and not a character flaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:24 am 
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What you've experienced sounds like it could be precipitated withdrawal or it could be that your tolerance was lower than what your doctor dosed you for.

In order to figure out which is which, can you tell us what kind of opiates in what amounts were you taking before starting suboxone? Also, how long did your doctor have you go without opiates before you were induced on suboxone?

We may be able to help you more if we have this information. Welcome to the forum!

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:29 am 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
What you've experienced sounds like it could be precipitated withdrawal or it could be that your tolerance was lower than what your doctor dosed you for.

In order to figure out which is which, can you tell us what kind of opiates in what amounts were you taking before starting suboxone? Also, how long did your doctor have you go without opiates before you were induced on suboxone?

We may be able to help you more if we have this information. Welcome to the forum!

Amy


Thanks, Amy!

I was taking Percocet 10/325. I was down to one pill a day (because I had run out and couldn't get a pharmacy to fill the next script because it was too soon) for three days, trying to wean down from two pills every four hours (script was for one every eight hours). With that, I was taking but/asa/caf 50/325/40 every four hours.I had taken my last Percocet at 9:30 Sunday night, but kept on with the but/asa/caf pills until the pain doctor told me to stoppit with them as they were probably causing rebound headaches. So, the last one of those was Noon Monday.

My first half strip (4mg) was at six pm, give or take a minute or two. At the time, I intended on dosing six am and then six pm, but have changed it to ten and ten.

Gee, I sure do hope this made sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:51 am 
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I don't know what the other pills were that u mentioned, I didn't understand the abbreviations. But I understand the Percocet part. It definitely sounds to me like ur tolerance was low and suboxone is powerful. It takes withdrawal and cravings away from huge oxycodone and heroin tolerance. 4mg honestly sounds like a good dose for u, but if it's making u nauseous, then maybe try taking half that dose first....just to see if that helps the nausea. If it helps, then u know it's tolerance related. If u don't wanna go down a whole half, then go down a little bit. But even if u don't drop ur dose, ur tolerance will rise and you'll adjust to the 4mg eventually. I hope this made sense. Keep in mind though, I didn't understand the other medications u mentioned other than Percocet. As long as they weren't opiates it shouldn't be a factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:45 am 
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The other pills are butalbital/aspirin/caffiene. It's an old drug used to treat migrains.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:43 am 
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Ok, then those shouldn't effect suboxone either way. So I'm thinking since ur getting sick after u take ur dose, it could be that ur tolerance is on the lower side and maybe u could adjust ur dose. Even split ur dose to 2mg in the morning and 2mg in the evening. That's just a thought, of course u gotta discuss it with ur doctor. Like I said earlier, I think 4mg sounds like a good dose but maybe it's a little to strong right now for ya. But, even so, ur body will adjust to it. That's all I can think of, if u drop ur dose a little and it still doesn't help, could be something else....but not sure what that could be. I hope u start feeling better, especially with Thanksgiving coming up ♡

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:49 am 
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I'd suggest (which, I can only speak for myself, 8 years on Suboxone currently)...taking smaller doses more often than you're currently doing..taking larger doses less often might build up the buprenorphine (active medicine in Suboxone)..in your system..but your tolerance doesn't sound high enough to warrant that much at once.

Here's an idea of what 24mg of Suboxone treats:

I was personally taking 400mg of oxy/day. I binged on it a few days, then I would eat 14-16 lortab 10's trying to curb the awful "fall" from oxy until I could get more.

So, the withdrawals of close to 200mg of hydrocodone, daily plus the withdrawals of 300-400mg of oxy, daily.. is what 24mg of Suboxone treated for me.

Did I need that much? I have no clue..never had heard of sub before that first trial. Did it work? definitely.
I didn't get sick, and still don't get sick.

Others may give their advice that sound similar to mine..but I could be wrong.
For the most part, Suboxone is a trial and error. If you are taking enough that it makes you sick, then definitely try cutting down a little..
I'd say take 2mg 4 times a day.. Or, try taking 2mg morning, 2mg evening, and 4mg at bedtime.
You can split it up in different ways..it would literally take a couple days before you have to worry about having withdrawals from Sub...so you have wiggle room to try and see what works.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:57 am 
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Aww, Thanks Jenn!

Since there was no rush with this morning's dose and the shakes and twitching still went away, I think I have adjusted.

I looked up the antibiotic I'm taking for a kidney infection, and it causes nausea, too, so maybe the two together were conspiring to make me sick.

Either way, I feel more like my old self, and my bowels are even starting to wake up.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Hi Dayglosunshine- I just wanted to say hello- I just registered the other day so I am not comfortable giving any advice, I just wanted to say hello and I hope that you get adjusted and get to feeling better


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Yes! It sounds like you were down to a very low amount of percocet, so your symptoms were most likely from taking too much buprenorphine at once. 4mg of suboxone is actually quite a lot for someone who hasn't had much oxycodone in the last three days.

I agree with both Jonathan and Jen that starting out with 2mg in the morning and seeing how you feel is a good idea. It could be that you only end up needing 2mg a day, but you'll probably end up at four. The sweet spot is enough buprenorphine (active ingredient in suboxone) to take away withdrawal symptoms and cravings, but not enough to make you feel ill with side effect. One caveat though. It is normal to be a little bit sensitive to side effects at first. The same dose (4 mg) would probably not make you sick a week into your induction.

Eventually, it will be in your best interest to dose once a day, not several times or even twice a day. The less you think about taking your dose, the better. Addict behavior tends to make us think too much about how we feel. In recovery, we want to get away from that and focus on positive things like our jobs and fixing our relationships.

Congratulations on starting on the path to recovery! I've been on buprenorphine a little over 5 years now and my recovery is going strong! Welcome!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Hi Dayglowsunshine, Welcome! We know with suboxone that less is more so I too agree with starting at 2mgs and taking it from there. I started at 24mgs and have tapered to 4mgs without any problems. Please, keep us posted as to how you are doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:23 pm 
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Thanks so much, Y'all. I see my regular pain doctor in the morning and I'll ask about knocking down my dose.

Today, I haven't had any issues (so far) other than symptoms of a kidney infection, which I'm being treated for.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:44 am 
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Hi Dayglosunshine! Welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear your getting settled into your dose. I take my dose 3 times a day but they say it's better on your recovery to get used to talking Suboxone 1 time a day. If that is working for you now then that is great. I just wanted to ad that I've had trouble with kidney infections in the past ant the strong antibiotics that were prescribed absolutely made me sick to my stomach. I hate you had to induce while on those. Hopefully if someone reads this and they are on such antibiotics, they'll wait till they are finished with their cycle before inducing. Way better to wait is my opinion. So was it your pain Dr. who put you on Suboxone? If not, are you taking anything for pain while on Suboxone, or is the Suboxone sup post to be for pain too? I'm anxious to read what you hear from your pain Dr. tomorrow, as I'm also a chronic pain patient. It will keep improving, I bet. Bamagirl


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:21 am 
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Well, it's a side benefit that Suboxone is taking the last of my pain away.

I didn't know for sure I have a UTI until the day after I started Suboxone. Otherwise, I would have waited except I was slap outta pills. That was on Monday, and I couldn't fill again until Friday.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:06 am 
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Omg I've suffered with kidney infections and UTI's for yrs and yrs. It's awful. After I had my youngest, I had to go bk to the er and ended up having a "massive uti" and it was really bad. I haven't had one in awhile though (knock on wood).

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:34 am 
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Dayglosunshine wrote:
The other pills are butalbital/aspirin/caffiene. It's an old drug used to treat migrains.

fioricet is the brand name. i take them too. but dr. wants me to switch to excedrine migraine since i just almost died from a septic kidney infection!

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 Post subject: Re: Dayglosunshine
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:35 am 
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jennjenn wrote:
Omg I've suffered with kidney infections and UTI's for yrs and yrs. It's awful. After I had my youngest, I had to go bk to the er and ended up having a "massive uti" and it was really bad. I haven't had one in awhile though (knock on wood).

a month into my subs i almost died from a uti that went septic in my kidney!

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