It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:18 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:07 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 pm
Posts: 69
Hi, I'm not really looking for anything in terms of support, compassion, or answers, maybe I'm just here to vent. Maybe I'm just trying to clear my mind.

I'm real proud of myself to be 4 weeks out of the morass of opiate addiction. I barely even think of going bad with a perk or a vike anymore, and I know that is some serious progress. I've come so far in 28 days that I feel like I would throw it all away if I did even a half of a pill. No way!

I'm having a tough time though right now, which surprises me, because the first 7-8 days of no Subs, I was really flying high. Had some moments that were a little tough to get through, but I felt stronger than them. The last 3 days or so though have been so weird and so different. I'm craving a Sub, I know I can't get them because I kind of weaned off with the help of a neighbor, who also went through them and is 2 years clean, so he is an inspiration to me. But he even says the same thing, if I'm at day 11, why would I want to start all over again with even just a little piece?

I don't want to think about it anymore, but it consumes me at times. It's not even that I feel that bad aside from some sleeping and shitting issues, but I kind of expected that by now. Surprised it took this long. Are our minds really that trained to depend on pills to get by that we know no other way? Am I always going to feel like this? I know I won't ever ever ever go back to narcotics ever again. I can't. To be done doesn't mean to be done until I feel I can control it. There is no control right now.

This little voice keeps saying if I'm going to go bad, go bad with a sub but after 11 days what good exactly would it even do except destroy my progress?

I'm sorry, I'm rambling. Just another boring, random Sunday on the road to recovery, if that's even possible. I know it is with opes but Subs have me worried. I can taste the orange melting down my throat and I just want it to go away. I hope it will, I guess I know it will.

But it's pretty goddamn hard to expect every day to be a breeze. It isn't, and I'm learning quickly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:56 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
Hey seasonasdad -

I'm so sorry I missed your post before now. I hope you made it through and are feeling a little better today.

Please don't despair, you will start to feel better soon. There will probably be ups and downs, but you will get better day by day. In a couple more weeks you will feel better more often than not, then a few more weeks and you'll be almost there.

Opiates do create changes in our brains and that cue-response-reward circuit is hard to rewire but it can be done. You can do it!

Let us know how you are...

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:04 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 pm
Posts: 69
Thank you. It's good to know people care or look out for you. As you may or may not have seen from my other posts, I recovered this week up until today, Today was pretty tough. I haven't really craved painkillers this whole 32 days I have quit. But today I did. I figure that's not too bad 1 day in 32.

I've pulled through though and I'm all right. I expect tomorrow to be better, my daughter is coming home early from vacation with her mother and I'm getting some unexpected time with her. She makes me really happy, and I know that will help aid in my recovery.

32 days no opes, 15 days no subs. I'm proud, I'm getting better, and I'm going to do it!

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

YES WE CAN!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:46 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:17 pm
Posts: 21
Reason why some feel fine during the first week after quitting suboxone is because the suboxone is still in your fatty cells, that should be so obvious by now to many users who have uses this opioid for a while. 11 days is nothing compared o 6 months or so where the suboxone can still be in the system, depending on how long one was taking suboxone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:12 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 pm
Posts: 69
It's nothing TO YOU maybe, but I'm damn proud. 16 days now and I'm not going back either way. Spread your negativity elsewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: responding to an idiot
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:13 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:14 pm
Posts: 106
hessler - Your ignorance knows no bounds. Buprenorphine does not stay in your system for 6 months and I have no idea where you picked that gem up... it's like you pull things out of your ass and then you feel compelled to spread all that crap around on this forum. As I said before, please do yourself a favor and do some research before you continue to make a fool of yourself and upset people. You have contributed absolutely nothing of value that I can see, though I guess it is a good thing that people can see just how much misinformation is out there, and also get a good picture of some of the individuals who spout all this stupidity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:17 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:14 pm
Posts: 106
seaonasdad - Congratulations! You're doing great and you have every reason to be proud as hell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:29 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
Seaonasdad,

Please don't listen to anything Hessler says. Hessler is only here to spread an anti-sub agenda. Hessler tries to sound educated, but her information is only from anecdotal hearsay. She can not back up one thing with actual scientific study. So do yourself a favor and ignore Hessler.

BTW, you are doing a fantastic job!!! Keep up the good work!

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:20 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:17 pm
Posts: 21
Am only speaking what can be the truth and facts for many. Suboxone can still be in the body and mind for 6 months. If someone has been taking suboxone for 5 years fr example, and they stop at 2mg, then suboxone still can linger on for that long. Why not? I know there is no hardcore proof but then there isnt proof of not being in your system at 6 months either. Its a reason why many folks still feel bad at 6 months post-suboxone.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:32 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:17 pm
Posts: 21
Also there doesn't always have been to scientific studies to back up things. I already mentioned that. You do not always need scientific studies to believe something or not believe something. There can be various reasons why there cannot be scientific studies to back up people's theories or even facts "generally speaking here" It will be very silly and naive to always go by scientific studies on everything single concept of an issue. Just because you cannot see concrete scientific studies it does not mean you do not believe it or at least consider the possibilities. Many things were proven before scientific studies, studies can only vindicate something or someone in due course and the future, those that are open minded and realistic do not always need to rely on scientific studies or wait for them to be made public, they can guess for themselves or at least dwell over them so to be prepared. Peoples experience can be more of a proof then scientific studies. Perhaps what is missing is results on the table? perhaps something can be true but the only problem is there is no conclusions made to the public? people need to look at things from all angles.

Possibilities can not be ruled out. Have you ever thought maybe they do not want to make scientific studies on suboxone in the sense of long term damage because of rep, money, careers etc? perhaps we are still in the trial period? just because there arent any scientific studies in your terms does not mean you rule out possibilities in what I or anybody is point out. It will be very naive to ignore what others are saying. The saying "prevention is better then cure" and "don't wait until its too late" can be associated with suboxone. All I ever pointed out was the possibilities and research including peoples experiences, sometimes things have to be taken on faith. Suboxone is still new in the sense of maintenance treatment and high doses, so sometimes scientisficv studies cannot be made available just like that,. but it does not mean you disregard peoples experience, throeies, own research and possibilties.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:08 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:34 pm
Posts: 173
hessler wrote:
Why not? I know there is no hardcore proof but then there isnt proof of not being in your system at 6 months either.


You're starting to remind me of that scene in the movie "Tommy Boy" where chris Farley is imitating his father and he says "you can find out if a t-bone steak is good by sticking your head up a cows ass- but I'd rather take the butchers word for it" Lol Sorry, couldn't resist. I've got that juvenile sense of humor sometimes ;-)

I'll give you credit, as far as trolls go you're pretty good. Very persistent, and wordy- in a Cliff Claven kinda way- but why bring someone down in a thread where they deserve kudos for kicking ass?

Nice job, Seaonasdad!!! You're doing GREAT!! Keep grinding man, keep grinding.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:58 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
Hessler: "Also there doesn't always have been to scientific studies to back up things."

You're right. I usually don't need evidence to back up what people say. Only you deserve to be held to that kind of scrutiny.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:47 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 pm
Posts: 69
I really don't care if people post what they want to believe. This is a forum, so there will be people who use their own experiences to emote their position of things. Whether they actually provide evidence or research is entirely up to them. I'm going to read the posts either way and am not going to let their experience alter mine. If anything, it motivates me to stay clean and prove that I can do it.

As I coast along my 34th day without Opes and 17th day without Subs, I would say that short-term use for Subs is the way to go, obviously. Otherwise, all you do is get addicted to another drug. And it continues to be a vicious cycle of weaning off Subs with opes, and stopping Opes with subs over and over again.

Granted, this is the first time I have tried to quit in the 8 years I have been addicted. Maybe short-term was all I needed since I haven't been through it before. Maybe by not using a doctor and just someone's advice who was in a rehab program on how to kick the habit(s) was the reason for me. I only used subs for 2 weeks basically, and now I'm off opiates and off Suboxone and I feel really good. Whether or not the feeling continues as the time passes remains to be seen, but for now, if the worst of it has been a few days here and there the last 3 weeks or if the worst of it even resembles those days the past 3 weeks, then I believe that I can make it through and continue to be successful.

It's early, I know. I have a long way to go. Some days trigger the "DO A PERC" in me. Some days I hope my phone lights up with someone saying "Found you subs". But, those days and moments seem to be gradually declining each day and I'm not actively asking people to get me anything. I think the craves never actually go away completely, but I hope one day I can laugh them off and think of how irresponsible I was for a large part of my life. Because that is really all you can do now is move forward and laugh about it. If we could undo what we have done in life, none of us would be here. The only way to undo what we have done with drugs is get through every day without them now. It's a proud feeling going to bed at night knowing Ive made it through another day.

Thank you all for reading me. Anger breeds triggers so let's all have a smile!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:15 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: oregon coast
Great job Seanosdad, awesome, keep it up :wink:


the whole 'scientific evidence' thing......... we use that here so people aren't MISinformed. Im not going to go on and on for the reasons, becuase you've already been told them , I LOST COUNT how many times.

I remember reading in history books as a kid, how everyone KNEW the earth was flat.
right????
dont you 'fall off' somewhere??????

maybe hessler should go check it out :roll:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:12 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
Where is that "like" button Amber?

Seaonasdad,

It may be that a quick taper with sub could have worked for you. It was not the way to go for me. I needed the stability of long term treatment. For me, this meant 6 months on my regular dose of 16 mg and tapering after that. Currently I've tapered to 5 mg per day, and that taper has been slow and easy. I not only needed help to get off my drug of choice, but I needed to be freed from the obsessive thoughts and behaviors of active addiction. I have used my time on sub to work on myself with an addiction therapist, and reevaluating my goals and strategies for the future. I think that I will be able to taper off of sub in a few months, and then be opiate-free. But I have a couple things going for me that may help with keeping out of active addiction. I only started using pills in my 30's. Before that I had never done any drugs except to try weed a couple times. I also don't know anyone who uses drugs that I know of. So I'm surrounded by people who are clean. I also ratted myself out to everyone so I would be more likely to stay accountable. I'm not saying that I won't ever slip up. I'm just saying that, because of my circumstances, a relatively short stay on sub makes sense for me.

The thing is, you don't know that a short term taper with sub would have worked for you because you didn't do it that way. And it might seem ideal to get off sub right away, but a lot of people need the benefits of sub for a longer period of time or they would immediately relapse.

Just my opinion based on my experience. I'm very glad for you that you are doing so well! Keep up the awesomeness!

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:05 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 pm
Posts: 69
Thank you folks. Amy, I want to ask you though, when you say a lot of people need the benefits of sub for longer or they would immediately relapse, is that because a doctor tells you that and you follow their plan or because the little voice in your head is telling you you need the sub? A doctor I think is going to tell you that or more inclined to tell you that so you keep seeing him/her. There's a lot of money involved with Sub treatment. I did not see a doctor, probably maybe should have, but again, I'm leery of the whole plan because of the money aspect. I know a lot of people in the medical profession, it's unbelievable the money they pull in for both the visits and the drugs.

If it's the voice in your head saying the sub is working, then that's where I've felt like I've passed that hurdle and that's just the addictive behavior working inside of me. I'm honestly not trying to discourage anyone's treatment plan, I want everyone to get clean too believe me. What I mean is that I had that 'I need to find Subs' mentality around the second day I stopped. But, I knew I had no way of getting them, I knew I would get to like 5 days without them without even having a chance at getting them again. So, because of that I kept saying well, if I've gone this far and I really don't feel that bad, let's see if I can make it 6, and then 7, and then 10.

Look, it hasn't been all roses and sunshine and rainbows. Some days I crave, some days I don't. Like today. I'm finding the days I crave to come farther apart the longer I go and I swear I really am waking up feeling better, sharper. Tuesday will be 3 weeks since my last 2mg Sub. So, I took 5 8mg Subs over the course of 15 days to stop an 80-160mg Percocet problem daily over 8 years.

No doctor would have prescribed that dose to me I don't think. They'd have started me at an 8mg daily and I started at 4mg daily. I had help along the way but from a former NA member. He did a good job of convincing me that I was gonna get withdrawals either way, but a rapid fire treatment can work if you do it the right way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:31 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
Hmmm...I don't think I said that because of a voice in my head or a doctor's voice in my head, lol. It's my experience and knowledge of myself that tells me that, and also the experiences of some others on this forum. I can't say that my doctor has no opinion or interest in why I stayed on suboxone for months instead of weeks. I do know that he thinks it's important for opiate addicts to get some time and distance from their addictive behaviors. He has let me be the guide on how long I feel I need the medication. He neither encouraged nor discouraged me from tapering. He just gave me advice about not doing it too quickly. I needed and wanted the time I was on 16 mg to figure out why I relying on drugs, without the burden of craving my drug of choice. I needed that time to develop better coping skills and to come to grips with certain issues I have with family members. No one told me that I would have relapsed if I had gotten off sub too quickly. I just believe that about myself. Does that make any sense? I don't know if I totally answered your question, so feel free to ask me more questions. :)

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:35 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:34 pm
Posts: 173
seaonasdad wrote:
Thank you folks. Amy, I want to ask you though, when you say a lot of people need the benefits of sub for longer or they would immediately relapse, is that because a doctor tells you that and you follow their plan or because the little voice in your head is telling you you need the sub? A doctor I think is going to tell you that or more inclined to tell you that so you keep seeing him/her. There's a lot of money involved with Sub treatment..


That's actually a little bit exaggerated. There's really very little incentive for a dr to keep maintenance patients around. Most sub drs operate the same way- you're induction visit is expensive and then after that you pay the dr a monthly fee. Most monthly fees average under $100. Some cheaper, some more expensive.. It's not chump change, but it's not big money- especially not when you consider that most sub drs are at their patient limit and having matience patients means they're actually costing themselves money. if it was just a money making thing they'd be in a hurry to replace you with new customers that are paying the much higher induction fee- in most cases it's at least double.

Add in the fact that they don't make anything on the drugs and I don't see this as a big money making scheme for the drs. Now RB is another story. They might be greedy but I guess when you spend billions of dollars on R&D developing the meds you can do that. People like to look at the numbers and see that it cost them .50 cents (or whatever it costs) to make one pill and judge them for charging $7. They forget to take into account that the second pill costs .50 cents- the first one actually cost them hundreds of millions.

Ok, that ends my capitalist rant for the evening. Lol. ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:18 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: oregon coast
I just wanted to add in, that the doctor I see,
has a 'sliding scale' and I pay $40 for my appointments.
when I FIRST started going, I was only paying $10 a visit, I was making less money
and I was the only one working. So my fee has gone up a little over the last year,
but is TOTALLY 'doable'
the RX on the otherhand, that IS expensive. Ive been on the patient assistance thing
from RB for 11 months. Gonna suck when it ends, but Im prepared. And the doctor says
I can apply for it again. He's gonna write a letter for me or something like that.

Anyways, had to add my two cents. I dont think my doctor cares one way or the other if somebody stays on,
or tapers off. He has a wierd lil rule though, when you THINK your ready to taper, you have to give him
THREE POSITIVE reasons you want to taper.
I was trying to understand what he meant by positive, I said like "I dont want a crutch anymore"
no, he says thats a negative.
LOL

Might take me awhile to come up with my reasons!!! I asked him to give me an example, and he said no, cuz then I would only have to come up with TWO reasons, and that's cheating.
:roll:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:41 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
I like the 3 positive reasons rule. You can use it to help reframe the way you think about getting off Suboxone (whenever you're ready for that).

"I don't want a crutch anymore" can be turned around into a positive - "I've learned to recognize my triggers and I've developed healthy ways to deal with them. Tapering my dose will give me an opportunity to practice my coping skills as I deal with the cravings and withdrawal symptoms that might arise as I lower my dose."

It's good in recovery (I think anyway) to have an awareness of what you're moving toward, rather than just focusing on what you're moving away from. We all pretty much wanted to leave the hell of addiction behind - but where are we going from here? Thinking about these things in a positive way - in terms of what we want - is a good mental exercise. It certainly made me see how negative my thinking was at times. Plus, if you only know what you don't want it's hard to achieve what you DO want. Make sense?

Other "negative" reasons for wanting to taper can be turned around into positives pretty easily as well. Here's a pretty common one:

"I can't afford it" or "I'm sick of spending so much money on Suboxone" can be restated as "Now that I've progressed to a solid, stable, point in my recovery I'd like to try tapering off Suboxone because I have some new goals in life that I want to use my financial resources to achieve."

See, now you just have to come up with one on your own :wink:

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group