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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:36 am 
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Goinstrong you are quite right about Hellser. Everyone's got a Hessler in their mind - this inner spirit that takes over our real self saying everything is going to be shitty and being on subs was a shitty decision. On top of all the physical crap, I've always cracked and said Gimme the orange stuff!!!! But, if we are to really live the sober life, we must settle our inner Hesslers. I watched a local church sermon today on the internet and the guy talking said that scientists say we talk to ourselves 5,500 times on average per day and that 80% of them are negative thoughts. I wouldn't be surprised, I know I am that way, and this whole new sober lifestyle I'm trying to obtain goes hand in hand with the whole reason I started doing drugs in the first place - to settle my negative thoughts. I also agree that physical symptoms are not all in your head (it drives me f***in nuts when my sub guy/closest friend says that... gee, look who's still on the brown..!!). I do know that I've got to get my head on straight while on the subs so that I don't relapse when I'm off, and a big part is putting our inner Hesslers to peace.

I'm still working on my inner Hessler. But I will tell you Godhelpme and everyone else -- remember that you do have power over choosing positive thoughts over negative thoughts. I can't tell you how to do it, but just remember that trying is better than breaking down to the negative thoughts. Now, when you crave subs/your DOC, just say "Shut up Hessler You're Not ME! I am not this negative person! This isn't me. I am a positive thinker".


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:13 pm 
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invisiblemovement, I love that post. You are so right, many of us pay way too much attention to that negative voice in our heads.

About a year or so ago, DoaQ taught me about our "compassionate observer." The compassionate observer is basically the opposite of the negative voice. Here's a link to a blurb about our compassionate observer, check it out.

http://www.healyourinnerchild.com/index ... f=1&id=155

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:20 pm 
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The negativity slowly goes away the more the devils are out of your system. Your brain takes a beating from addiction, takes a long time to get right. But as the opiates dissipate, the positive thoughts start to return.

Day 8 without a Sub, Day 25 without an ope. Feeling stronger and happier every day. You will get there. Keep that mind going in the right direction.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Godhelpme,

Don't let that hessler post get to you. I read it too, and was like WTF? He doesn't share his experience of being on and/or getting off Subs, he always says, "I know X amount of people with these blahblahblah..." Tells everyone to take his word for it, won't back up his posts with any links. Who really knows what his angle is, I mean is he trying to help? He says he is, but mostly he's just scaring the crap out of people. IMHO.

Like Laddertipper, I was on Subs for 6 years. Did a rapid taper, jumped at .5 mgs, and I have been clean now for exactly 7 weeks. My only lingering w/d symptom is sweating, but I think it gets better every day. I have no health problems, whatsoever. Before or after taking/stopping Subs. Subs don't cause the problems, I think they do just mask them. I am not a doctor, and only speak from my personal experience. So don't let that get to you, you are doing great!

You are 7 days off Subs, and that is a huge deal! You are in school, while in w/d's! I am awed by you! If you can do that, you can do anything! Always remember that! Keep it up!

C


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Seaonasdad I just wanna take a moment to welcome you to the forum. I'm new too but I still would like to give a welcome as posting to me was one of your first few posts. I appreciate your feedback and although our situation on suboxone lengths used and whatnot was different I still retained important information from your post and greatly appreciate it. Are you doing better today? Has your situation with suboxone withdrawal improved any?

CasilibreQ I thank you so much for your kind message you sent me as well as your post. It seems like you are going through similar experiences so I feel better to know I have yet another person to share my current struggles with. I've seemed to focus so much on the negative crap u have seen on the Internet that I have let it get to me. I hope your sweats go away soon but I don't think the sweats bother you as mcg as other symptoms did that have vanished for you, so that is good. Unfortunately the sweats are the 2nd, if my 1st, worst symptom for me. But my brother is prescribing me colonidine or whatever it is to help with that. He will be monitoring my heart pressure though since my family has a history of low BP.

Romeo you are one of the greatest posters / helpful persons I have seen in this forum. You almost post a reply for hope to every person in need of it. I have actually looked thru several posts as you mentioned I do with others experiences and it has helped me somewhat. I know I am not the only one here who can say your posts have helped.

Invisible movement you and I have been. Hitting back n forth. You already know how mcg I appreciate you and how worthy your messages to me we're. You're a great person. You have a good heart and I only wish I could have friends in real life with similar mindsets.

Goinstrong after I read your post I was at ease a bit. I'm the type of person that is shy and doesn't like confrontation. But I get upset when I see someone be a bully or mean to another person it gets to me and upsets me but I can't speak up. A part of this has been due to the fact that I am a smaller guy and skinny only around 145lbs so I have never been confident in myself. I avoid confrontation in case a fight breaks out. I don't know though if hessler is trying to ruin this for me or others. I don't think it's a complete joke like someone people who post do. I think hessler is just strongly opposed to suboxone due to personal experiences. But I have to tell myself what you said. I cant let all the negative thoughts take over me cuz they will have an affect. Thanks for posting.

Chicken kebabs its actually kabob :p haha I'm just playing. I'm glad you're doing mcg better now that you're on day 9/10. Why can't I focus on posts like yours than te bad ones. I do feel however it is important to not be in denial or to lie to myself about the symptoms I'm dealing with but I do feel reading those who take on their symptoms with strength can give more value to discussion then those with negativity-myself being guilty as one of the whinny ones. I'm trying though I swear.


To update***
Today is actually day 6 for me. I mis-counted :( - which sucks. But it is what it is. I have had the worst day today since I stopped suboxone. I have been in bed all day and gone to the bathroom like 10 times. It's like a nightmare. I am sweating and nauseous as well. My stomach feels like it is constantly full with a gallon of water. I've cried a few times today. I have been really emotional and sad. I just am frankly tired of reading negativity everywhere. It's literally all over the Internet. That's why I have decided to stop reading. This has by far been the hardest day for me. I want totally with someone but no matter which friend I have I speak to none understand. To some of them I have to explain what suboxone is before I even talk about how terrible I feel. I have been trying to re-read some of your messages and posts and it has helped so I thank all of you each one by one. But all I know is this is the hardest thing. Not a single inch of me expected this a few weeks ago. But there is some hope. I'm alive still right? I'm here breathing. I still have my family. I am sober. So it's still a win situation for me. But just like winning the Superbowl is a hard task that takes all year for a football team, my withdrawal is a tough battle that isn't short. But just like the outcome and reward of the Super Bowl is so great, so is my lack of suboxone in my life. One less thing to "need." I'm trying guys-so please forgive me if I'm a party pooper. But believe it or nt me complaining here helps me a lot so thanks.

One day at a time...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Thanks GHM. Yes, I'm doing real good today. I totally get what you are going through. Trust me, though my post may have been a little misleading with how easy I may have made it seem, it really wasn't. I had many of the same problems last week with it. As recently as Saturday, I was calling and texting everyone I know trying to land a Sub but couldn't find one. So, again, I just went for a long walk and remembered all of the progress I made.

That's the best thing you can keep telling yourself - I have come so far already, why would I ruin it and have to start all over again?

Day 8 today for me. I honestly believe that tomorrow and Saturday, you are really going to start feeling good both physically and mentally. And not only that, if you have a little extra money in your pocket from not buying drugs, go and treat yourself to something you normally wouldn't be able to afford to do in the past because you needed it to have pills. Little things like that remind you of what you are becoming - better and stronger than this disease.

I'm here for you. Anything you want to post, I will relate, I will comfort, I will provide something you can take with you.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Hi.

Hope you're feeling a bit better.

Solid advice about using the extra cash to treat yourself. That's what I did, retail therapy can do wonders.

Day 11 for me and I feel great. I have my moments but they pass. Back to work Monday and I'm actually looking forward to it.

Whilst everyone's experience is different, I'm very skeptical about people havings symptoms for up to a year. Physchosomatic?

These is my 4th completed withdrawal. I've jumped off a decent heroin habit cold once, jumped off 60ml of methadone and off buep.

By far smack and methadone were the worst for me.

Whilst no jump off any opiate is fun, I'd take a suboxone withdrawal any day and twice on Sunday bro.

Hang in there. It will never be easier than now.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Seaonasdad I have contemplated using marijuana as a means to feel better but my body has had a weird reaction to smoking weed in the last year. Everytime I smoke I have this weird feeling where I feel like I'm dying. My chest gets tight - my anxiety peaks - I get a shortness of breath and feel like my heart skips beats. I also get extremely hot. Anyhow it doesn't happen when I smile very little but honestly I don't know how to prevent. I wish I could smoke I remember it use to help me in every way. I don't know what happened. I really like your suggestion of trying something new with my money. As soon as I start feeling a bit better I need to go to a movie or to a theme park or something. Thanks for keeping in touch with me.
Kebabs I am happy it's going smoothly for you. That is really great. I would t wish this to be hard on anyone so even though it's hard for me hearing you be ok is soothing. I hope you continue your success brother

I am actually ok as of now. I just took a bath which really helped. But I've cried a few times from sad scenes in shows or at the ending of a damn Simpsons episode. I am somewhat emotional but have never cried like this unless it was an extremely dramatic movie like the green mile. Is this typical? Did anyone else experience this? I am just emotionally drained I guess.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:24 pm 
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YES the crying is TOTALLY typical! This is good! This means that your emotional faculties are functioning! Now... some say Subs mask our emotions.... well, I know that when I take them I get pumped up, with MORE emotions... but, I am comparing it to most recent years, which would have been fogged by more downer-drugs, and I will tell you, that it is possible that any opiate can surely turn down the nob on our emotions.

I have read on here about someone who was crying at the most hilarious things like something like a cat food commercial? I cried a lot the last time I went off subs but it was more of a good thing because it feels good to be depressed at times. There is some kind of high about it. Well, just letting you know that you are totally... N. O. R. M. A. L.... and guess what? You know that you aint a dick-wad inside! People don't like dick-wads. And you can feel emotions, so you are definitely not a dick-wad.

I hear that music sounds even greater after sub detox... look forward to that! And I believe it. Music was sounding greater at these low crumbs, and then I f**cked up one day and did a bunch of sub and then I listened to the music and I was just lost in lala land. Guess what GodHelpMe, you aint in lala land anymore! You aint in King Friday's land of make believe! YOU IN MR. ROGERS RANCH HOUSE AND MR MCFEELY'S KNOCKIN!! Get out the Picture Picture cuz you got a date with THE REAL YOU!

Congratulations on all of your success -- You definitely have the floor on this forum and are inspiring all the lurkers today and the lurkers of tomorrow!! :o :o :!: :shock: :!: :lol: :lol: :P :lol: :D :!: <<<<------- That is a preview of tomorrow's Daily Specials you will be feelin' one-on-one with


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:45 pm 
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GodHelpMe wrote:
Seaonasdad I have contemplated using marijuana as a means to feel better but my body has had a weird reaction to smoking weed in the last year. Everytime I smoke I have this weird feeling where I feel like I'm dying. My chest gets tight - my anxiety peaks - I get a shortness of breath and feel like my heart skips beats. I also get extremely hot. Anyhow it doesn't happen when I smile very little but honestly I don't know how to prevent. I wish I could smoke I remember it use to help me in every way. I don't know what happened. I really like your suggestion of trying something new with my money. As soon as I start feeling a bit better I need to go to a movie or to a theme park or something. Thanks for keeping in touch with me.
Kebabs I am happy it's going smoothly for you. That is really great. I would t wish this to be hard on anyone so even though it's hard for me hearing you be ok is soothing. I hope you continue your success brother

I am actually ok as of now. I just took a bath which really helped. But I've cried a few times from sad scenes in shows or at the ending of a damn Simpsons episode. I am somewhat emotional but have never cried like this unless it was an extremely dramatic movie like the green mile. Is this typical? Did anyone else experience this? I am just emotionally drained I guess.


I tried the pot thing while getting off Sub. It was medical grade and I tried both smoking and edibles. It absolutely did not work. For instance, I already had low energy, but the pot made me have even lower energy. At the same time, it made it impossible to sleep. My temperature regulation was insane. Like, I would get super hot, then sweat, then be so freezing that I could not get warm not matter what!! It seemed to hit me like a ton a bricks, in a way that pot shouldn't really affect a person. It was enough that I now have a really negative memory of marijuana, period. Also, the next day I'd be hungover....that is weird! I don't recommend it, based on my own experience. However, the reason I tried it was because some people swear by it for the body aches, sweats, and insomnia. Just didn't help me.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:39 am 
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Hey RJ,

As others have said, crying is totally normal. Your brain has been fed external opiates for so long that its natural opiate production machine has turned off. Right now, your brain is trying its hardest to get its opiate production machine back up and running. It'll come back online in fits and starts. It takes it a little while to find its balance again.

With no "feel good" chemicals running through your brain, it's no wonder we cry during wd. I remember feeling like I was being held together by tissue paper at times, the slightest nudge would send me bawling. Don't let the fact that you've been crying make you feel weak or anything like that, the crying is part of the healing process. People around you may not understand the crying, but we do and as far as I'm concerned, the crying does not make you weak, it just means you're in wd and the fact that you're fighting your way through this makes you a WARRIOR in my book!!

Today, you are one day closer to your goal. Don't forget how far you've come, man!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:02 am 
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Hey RJ, hope today is better. I also had a crying spell last week during it. We were on a boat getting ready to take off and I lost it in front of about 200 people or so. I almost had to get off but luckily my wife grabbed me before any of my other family saw and we were able to go somewhere on the boat private that I could let it out. I had no idea why I was crying, figuring it was just part of the wd, obviously. But, still, it's pretty scary when you feel completely out of control and cannot figure out why.

It was around a 3 hour boat trip. Being out on the water helped out a lot though after about a half-hour. I went to the back of the boat, just looked out on the water, smoked about a pack of cigarettes and actually FELT the breeze and sunshine hitting me. After THAT day, I really started to turn it around with the WD. I mean, the walking was getting me through at first but after the crying fit and the boat, I really started to get at peace with myself over everything. I was real good the next day, then the day after was the Saturday I was looking for Subs but couldn't find them. This may happen, so be stronger than the temptation. Sunday, I was again fine.

It seems like every other day can be tough and every other day can be good. I believe that gradually, those days will start to go longer and longer in between and I hope it will for you too. Today is the 3rd straight day I'm really feeling good physically and mentally, my 9th day without subs. You're right behind me, bro, you will feel good I promise. Just keep it up!


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 Post subject: Doable
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Hey GodHelpMe,
I know what you are going through. I was there a bit under 2 weeks ago and I want to encourage you by telling you the worst will be over in the next day or 2, if the worst is not over now. I am planning on updating my post later tonight but this post caught my eye as soon as logged on. I won't recap my symptoms here but to see them you can view my post
Round 2

I am now totally clean from all opioids including subs for 3 1/2 weeks (ermm...24 days, i think). When I first jumped all I could do was think about subs and finding a small piece that may have eluded me. Around day 15 or 16 though something happened. I woke up, started my morning routine, found a new job, got home 5 hours later, and then I saw my old (empty) script bottle. For the first time in 5 years, I went through the majority of a day without a single thought of an opiate. To say that seeing it didn't trigger me would be a lie. So I went downstairs to the garage, Took a hammer and smashed the bottle.
Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that it gets so much better. I am on day 24ish now and wake up without the thought of subs or opiates (sometimes I do think about them, but they are fewer and furthur between). I still have occasional GI issues (Immodium final started helping again around the 2 week mark), sparse anxiety (although it may be warranted with a lack of employment until recently and school coming up). But I feel at 95%. Plus I slept 8 hours yesterday!
It is doable and I am happier now than I have been in 5 years. You can do this, I was the biggest baby in the world the first time I tried to jump and I still am, If I can do it, so can you.


-Rangcom


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 Post subject: How you doing?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Godhelpme, how are you doing today? Hope you're still hanging in there & having a good weekend. Keep us posted! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:08 pm 
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So I am over 14 days off of suboxone now. I Have been so busy with school and out of town that I was not able to post. I am about to drive home from Tennessee now so I will post later. I wanted to just tell you all thank you again. I have not forgotten any of you or your words. You all were a major part of helping me get thru all this. Emotional support is a crucial step in succeeding. As well as being able to chat with people whom you can relate to. I will be back to give a full detailed response of each day and the symptoms. The only symptoms left now after 14+ days is my sweats and loose stool. The sweats have been as annoying as ever. But I'm glad that I am not in the spell of needing suboxone everyday.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Thanks for the update RJ!!

I've been wondering how you are, it's great to hear you're doing well!!!

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 Post subject: So happy for you!!!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:15 pm 
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I too was wondering about you! So glad you're doing well, and stopped by to let us know!!!

14 days is so awesome! It just gets better from here! Glad you're keeping busy with school & stuff!!! :)

C


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:22 am 
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Glad to hear all's well.


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 Post subject: wowzers...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:51 pm 
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That bad by day 2? Dang. I was on sub the first time for 8 months or so and got booted for no show and had to jump at 8mgs. It sucked. Didn't fully set in till about day 5 though. It took from thanks giving until new years day to even get out of the house and move around comfortably. But the worst part was the paws. I waited 10 months for it to get better and still felt terrible. So obvi I am now back on subs. I had to do it again so I can live my life a bit. I am only 22 and started opiates 7 yrs ago. So I didn't want to waste the next few years sitting around waiting for the paws to let up...I'm not saying this will happen to you becuz everyone is different about this stuff but that is what happened to me man. Just a little heads up...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Hessler, I moved your last post to the moderator forum. You've been repeatedly warned about posting fake "facts" about Sub withdrawal and PAWS.

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