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 Post subject: Day 1, no suboxone
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Hello, I just thought I would journal my experience as I am trying to get off suboxone. Suboxone was definitely a huge help in getting my life together. It helped end some of the obsession and compulsion to use that I've felt for years. The prohibitive cost of suboxone is my major reason for trying to get off of it. I started on 24mgs, went down to 20 pretty quickly. Then slowly tapered over the last year down to 2mg. It has been relatively easy for me, I just kind of did it at my own pace and didn't set too many rules as to how I'd do it. That approach worked pretty well until I got down to 2mg and I just couldn't seem to get my self any lower, not because of WDs mind you, just because of my addictive personality. So I am finally out as of yesterday, and I am hoping that I won't end up getting more, either by paying an enormous sum to my Dr. to get readmitted or just buying a couple off the street, which makes me feel too much like I'm using.

I had to go 3 days without any of my meds a few months ago and the WD from celexa seemed to feel worse than the suboxone. Though its hard to say which one was making feel so miserable. I'm not really able to get off work or anything to detox but I kind of feel like working helps keep my mind off it anyway.

So I'm at about 30hrs without suboxone and feel a little edgy which is to be expected. No real physical symptoms, just that craving our bodies seem to get when it knows it's without suboxone.

If anyone has any suggestions of herbal remedies or some non-narcotic meds that a Dr. might be willing to prescribe to help ease the WDs that's be awesome. I'm hoping I'll be able to hold out and not get more, but I will keep posting to say how it's going.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Hi azuretiger and welcome to the forum. You might want to ask your doctor for some Clonodine. It's pretty much the standard for opiate withdrawal (it's a blood pressure med). I'm glad you're doing well, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whatever w/d you're in for likely hasn't started quite yet. The half-life is 37 hours, plus your doses are stacked on top of that. Usually w/d hit anywhere between day 3 to day 5. Keep active and try to get some exercise in - that's supposed to be very good for w/d, too. Keep us posted on how you're doing. GOOD LUCK!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Oh, yeah, you jumped at 2mg? :shock: You may be in for a rough ride starting in about 12 to 24 more hours. Hang in there and good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:51 pm 
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Hello,

I just wanted to say GOOD LUCK!!! :D Jumping off 2mgs might not have been the best of ideas, but you have to do what you have to do :!: Think positive :idea: I will keep you in my prayers, keep us posted :!: :D


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 Post subject: thanks
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Thanks for everyone's support so far. Yeah I know I probably haven't really felt anything yet :( I was just documenting what I -think- I noticed. I know so much of it can be in your head too. I just got off work, I wait tables, and my head was a little clouded, nose a tiny bit runny, and back a little sore. But I'm trying to stay positive, and who knows maybe I'll be one of those lucky few who report only minor symptoms (I've talked to a couple). And something you hear in NA is you can survive you feelings, and I know I'm not going to die from this or anything like that. I'm just worried about it effecting work too much or doing something that effects my probation.

It's about time for bed, I took some tylenol PM and I'm prescribed neurontin which I hear can help. I might look into clonodine but my situation is a little tricky. I'm in a drug treatment court, and I know I should probably tell them that I am detoxing off suboxone but I'm afraid if I relapse (buy someone elses suboxone) I could get in trouble because they'll know I'm out and it wasn't my suboxone I was taking. It's a little annoying that if I paid my doctor $400 to get readmitted they'd be okay with it. heh maybe I'll cover my bases and tell them I am trying to quit before I run out, then that way if I relapse, they'll think I took mine...wow listen to that, addict reasoning heh. Anyway I'm ranting and that's kind of an outside issue. I'm really just here for some support while I try to get through this.

thanks for reading, and I hope I made some sense,

PS
Any good vitamins or herbal supplements that people have tried and found to help?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:58 am 
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Neurontin does help. Clonidine helps. Depending on how you feel, you may need some ativan for 4-5 days but you may not be able to take that. On about day 4 when it is at it's peak, you can go to the doctor, give them a list of symptoms, and a good doctor will just treat them one by one and it actually works. I know from jumping off 12mg per day that you can do it without missing work (in my experience) and the comfort meds do help. You are right that you never really know what you are in for jumping off at 2mg. I have heard of people who were just fine and of others who had a real hard time. Everyone is different. Hang in there. My experience with drug court, which I used to work with, is that you need to be as honest as you can with them. Often the probation officer and the judge will not violate you so long as you are still trying to get better. They are usually quite lenient and honesty pays. But be honest before a drug test is positive. You initiate the contact with them. You can even tell them what your concerns are in advance. They are generally quite cool about it.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:43 am 
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Yeah they say honesty is the most important thing. I've been in it for almost a year now and I'm getting closer to graduating. I've never failed a drug test but I managed to get myself put on a final contract notice (I'll go to prison if I do something wrong) for being dishonest about living with my girlfriend who is a felon.

I'm not too worried about relapsing on another opiate, just more concerned with taking someone elses suboxone. I'm going to meet with my NA sponsor today who was in drug court himself and knows my situation, I'll see what he thinks.

So it's only been 48 hrs so far, for some reason I feel a little better mentally than I did yesterday, just a little more achy than usual. I don't have to work tonight which is good, but I have my drug court in the morning, and then I close friday night which will kind of suck. We'll see how things go. Thanks for everyone's support.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:49 pm 
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I'm glad to here your still doing well :D I think NA will have a huge impact on your success! I will be keepng you in my prayers :!: :!: Keep us posted :!: 8)


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 Post subject: 60 hrs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:05 pm 
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So it's been about 60hrs since I took my last suboxone, about 1mg. I definitely feel some symptoms; achy body, dilated pupils, some mild sweats. The worst symptom when I have withdrawed in the past was always the anxiety that came with it, it would be so bad I couldn't function. Thank god that isn't happening this time. I think the neuorotin and celexa I take must be helping with that.

I have a question, let's say after 3 or 4 days I end up taking a mg or 2, would I go through this all over again, or would it be milder version of it. I'm just wondering if I end up taking a little bit if I will have to start all over again or if it will help with a little with WDs.

Thank you everyone who's responded so far and offered their support. It kind of seems like this is an online form of a meeting and you guys being on here is a version of giving back to fellow addicts.


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 Post subject: day 3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:17 am 
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Hello everyone, so it's day 3, so far no horrible WDs. Definitely feeling some though; my eyes feel very sensitive to light, very aware of aches in my body, mild sweats, and restless legs at night. But all pretty manageable so far. I thanking the neurontin and celexa for no major anxiety. It isn't fun though that's for sure. I have to work tonight and I feel -very- out of it.

I still have that question about if I take an 8th or so if it will completely set me back, or if the WDs will be milder after detoxing for 3 days already. I am definitely thinking about taking a quarter or an 8th so I can work tonight but I don't want to have to start all over.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:27 am 
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No, taking a very small amount shouldn't set you back. I don't blame you for doing it either - I probably would. Just take the absolute bare minimum to make you feel a bit better and ease some of the discomfort you're feeling. Thanks for updating us. You're doing GREAT!

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 Post subject: End of day 3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:21 am 
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Well I just got through work and it's the end of my day three. This morning was a little rough, even though I had pretty mild WD symptoms. Still very light sensitive, at work I was talking to customers and it almost felt like I was tripping because of the way people looked, similar to how your eyes dilate when you take hallucinogens, it was very weird and I haven't experienced that withdrawing in the past.

I feel pretty good and my mindset is pretty optimistic. I'm hoping I'm not experiencing a calm before the storm type deal. It's been about 84hrs since my last dose of about 1mg and I hope most of the suboxone is out of my system. I hear some people say day 5 is the worst but I'm thinking I'll be okay. I just took my nightly dose of neurontin (which I've said before seems to be killing any anxiety that I might have.) tylenols PM, and some melatonin for good measure.

I feel silly updating this all the time, but it's semi-therapeutic. I guess I'll check back in the AM, hopefully nothing much will change.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:03 pm 
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I am still keeping you in my prayers, your doing a great job and your a inspirtation to us all!!!! Please continue to post it's not only helping you its helping us all!!! :D KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK :!: :!: :!:


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 Post subject: End of day 4
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:18 pm 
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So it's the end of day 4, just got off work. Nothing like being on your feet for 7hrs non-stop to kick the WDs out of you :). I'm actually feeling pretty normal, although that could be because I'm so tired now. I did have a momentary act of weakness where I txted a friend to call me. I was freaking out before work, feeling some stronger WDs than I had yet. Luckily he didn't get back to me in time, and when I got off work I just told him exactly what was going through my head at the time, and to ignore me for the next few weeks heh.

I've been going to NA for a little bit now and I am actually trying to work with a sponsor on the steps *gasp*. I don't know about this whole higher power business but maybe there's something to it. I'm hoping I feel 1/2 as good tomorrow as I do right now, although I'm not counting on it, and I'm expecting the mild WDs I've been experiencing to come and go. Well tomorrow is day 5. I know it's different for everyone, but if it was going to get any worse it would by tomorrow right? I think I remember reading on this forum a while ago about someone who didn't feel any until week two?? Not sure if I read it right, or what.
thanks again,

P.S.
for anyone who's wondering, I'm still treating symptoms with celexa and neurontin. I've upped about 2x or 3x my neurontin dose from pre-WD. The way the script is written I can take 1-2pills up to 3x daily, although before this I never took more than two all day. Seems like it was written way back when with this detox in mind. I am also taking ibuprofrin like candy, some with the generic ibuprofrin PM (basically just with benedryl as I understand it) with some melatonin at night for good measure. Had a decent sleep last night compared to the 1st two.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:40 pm 
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Am I reading into this incorrectly or did you text a friend with the motivation being scoring some opiates from him? You were not all too clear about it but that's what it certainly sounds like.

"I did have a momentary act of weakness where I txted a friend to call me. I was freaking out before work, feeling some stronger WDs than I had yet. Luckily he didn't get back to me in time, and when I got off work I just told him exactly what was going through my head at the time, and to ignore me for the next few weeks heh."

That is extremely concerning. I tried to go back and read through more of your history but I don't feel I have enough to be certain of what's going on with you. It does sound like your major motivation for stopping Suboxone is financial. While I certainly understand where you are coming from, this is your life we are talking about here. Stopping Suboxone is about so much more than getting through the physical withdrawals. I hate to say it but the number of people who relapse is rather high - especially for anyone who has been on Suboxone for less than 12 months and/or is below the age of 30. Do either of these fit you? The fact that you may have already taken steps to try to get some opiates is a big red flag. I'm not going to pull any punches here, if you are going to be able to stay out of active addiction without Suboxone you are going to have to have some support systems in place. It doesn't sound like 12-step is turning out to be a support system that you are comfortable with. What else do you have in place? What other plans do you have? I just don't at all want to see you slide back to using again. This text message very well could have been a huge wake-up call for you.

Please rely on the many people here to try to help you. Let us know if the cravings are getting to you. Let us know if you are make another call to a "friend" to supply you with anything. Again, this is just way too serious here. This is a huge deal. This is your life.

Please keep letting everyone here know how you are doing.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:36 am 
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I'm with donh, please rely on us. Let us be one of your support systems. Contacting someone like that is a red flag, but I do have to give you kudos for not following through. If it were me, I'd consider cutting this "friend" out of my life. It's what most if not all of us had to do to stay healthy. Again, like donh said, this is your life we're talking about.

So I'm glad you didn't use and I'm glad you came and told us instead. Because besides being a support system, we can offer you some accountability. That can be invaluable for someone new to recovery. So lean on us and keep pushing forward.

Also, I would think, as you do, that it's likely that things will be downhill after tomorrow night. I'm glad the Celexa and neurontin are helping. Hang in there and please continue keeping us posted.

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 Post subject: One Week
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Yes I guess I was rather vague. Either way it's not something I followed through with. I wasn't trying to get high, just ease my discomfort. My main reason for quitting suboxone is definitely financial as it's really helped me stay clean and get my life back in order and I could go back to the clinic at anytime to get more if I wanted.

I do have some support systems in place, but I'm sure as some of you know 12-steps can be hard on people who're on suboxone. Although my sponsor is pretty supportive. Somehow I have made it through 7 days with no opiates. I do take two drug tests a week that hold me pretty accountable although I'm pretty sure they don't test for suboxone.

The last two nights were very sleepless and I had more anxiety than usual, but pretty much all the physical aches I've been experiencing are gone. I've been trying to stay busy with work and that's helped some. I feel 85% fuctional now which is good. Definitely a little discontent during the days, my mood isn't bad necessarily, just more of a flat affect.

I was wondering if anyone here had used kratom in moderation to help with WDs. I know it can be addictive on it's own and I don't need to be lectured, just wondering if anyone has experience with it and what it was. I'm suggesting I want to try it, but it popped up in some of my readings and I'm curious.

Thank you for everyone's concern. I feel I'm making good progress. It can be pretty daunting thinking about a future never using opiates again. I recognize that I'm an addict, but it's one thing for me to know it and another to believe it. I experience a disconnect in my mind when I think about it. There's always that thought that it might be different if I only changed this or did this differently...I'm sure people in NA would say one of two things, 1)that's your addiction talking or 2)go out and try to use successfully and let us know how it worked out if you get back.

Anyway, it's been one week and I guess my mind is a little all over the place.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:38 pm 
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I think you're doing GREAT for a week out! YAY YOU! On the Kratom issue...Another poster (I don't remember who) decided to use it to help with withdrawals. I do recall he ended up in a bad place with it VERY SOON. It didn't take long to develop a habit. I can't recall if he was intending on going back on sub or not. That's about all I remember about it. Sorry I can't tell you more. I would just caution you on using it, based on what that other member went through. You may have already made it through the worst of it...Why play with fire now? Keep up the good work.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:23 pm 
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azuretiger, you are doing it! 1 day at a time (I know, I hated hearing that when I was detoxing too), but that's pretty much what it boils down to...hanging in there. 2mg is a little on the high side to quit at, but it is absolutely possible. 2mg is very close to where i stepped off at on June 4, 2010. It seemed like the wd was not crazy powerful, but it hung on longer than i was hoping. You will make it through this relatively short period of discomfort and come out the other side happy with your decision. Try doing things you like, rock music worked well for me...as long as it was loud as hell. It will help pass the time, and i'm sure it must seem like time is running very slowly for you. Hang in there bud, it does get better.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:27 pm 
I tried Kratom before I got on the Suboxone, when I was trying to get off my doc on my own. It got me really high, and within I week I knew it was going to be an issue for me, as I couldn't wait to dose. So I ended up putting it down my garbage disposal, and I would NOT recommend it.


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