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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Another night of hell, losing faith gradually. Due to my anger issues over not being able to sleep normal, my wife left the house with my children and I'm not sure when or if she will be back. I feel like relapse is extremely close right now. Can't imagine life without my wife and kids. Lost and depressed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:14 pm 
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mikenice33 wrote:
Another night of hell, losing faith gradually. Due to my anger issues over not being able to sleep normal, my wife left the house with my children and I'm not sure when or if she will be back. I feel like relapse is extremely close right now. Can't imagine life without my wife and kids. Lost and depressed.


Hey there Mikenice33,

I know EXACTLY how you feel! Please do NOT lose hope- if I understand it correctly, you are just over 20 days off subs? The sleep deprevation is one of the hardest things to manage, but it DOES end, and for most I've read about here (and for myself), right around 25-27 days there is a 'big' turn around, and sleep really starts improving.

Detoxing off subs is not as 'intensely uncomfortable' than off other opiates (and I've detoxed off Methadone, Codeine, and Oxy's), but it is a MARATHON. You have come SO far though- don't give up! The finish line is in sight- just get through a day at a time- or an hour at a time- or the next minute or second if that is what it takes. Get out into the sunlight- listen to uplifting music- go for a walk or a bike ride- watch a funny movie- talk to a friend- anything to get your mind off your withdrawal.

I also have some 'anger issues' and was so irritable at about the point you are, that my husband moved out of our bedroom into the guest room and we stopped talking for awhile. I have two kids, and they told me I was "like this whole different person". But I did not give up- I knew in my heart of hearts that it was in ALL our best interests for me to keep pushing through- and I'm so so glad I did.

Im 9 months off subs today- and I feel great, sleeping great, and best of all, my relationships are ALL stronger and more 'authentic' and loving than they have ever been...at least more so than I can remember them being.

Hang tough!! You can do it!! And if you relapse, how will THAT help you get your wife and kids back???

Praying peace and serenity for you and your family- BF

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Thanks for the response, I was on oxycodone, started at 30mg a day and at the quitting point (5 months) I was up to about 180-210mg a day. Only used sub's for 5 days and realized they just weren't for me. Fast forward 3 weeks and still cannot sleep. Mostly all physical symptoms are gone beside achy legs, and my appetite has came back strong. The only unbearable symptom left for me at this point is insomnia, its debilitating for me as I'm not working and chase two small children all day, having no sleep is simply impossible for me, used benzo for a week or 2 but didn't want to get a new addiction so I dropped those completely, on and off anxiety but nothing major. Just the sleep, in desperate for a regular nights sleep at this point. Almost to the point of tears. If I do relapse, which hopefully I don't, it will be because of the insomnia, and my Dr refused to put me on a sleep med. And I'm diabetic so Tylenol pm etc etc is out of the question. Tried melatonin, didn't work. Tried ambien, didn't work, tried unisom and sleepytime tea, didn't work. So desperate for a full 8 hours of sleep I can feel myself relapsing just for the sleep.

Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Mike,

I am NOT a doctor, but I have been a diabetic for over 15 years. I don't see any problem with the Tylenol PM. It has never effected my blood sugar. The only real issue is to avoid overdoing the acetemetephin (?spelling?) so as not to damage your liver. As Butterfly said, relapsing certainly isn't going to help with your family or any other problems. Stay strong my friend!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:43 pm 
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I'm also NOT a dr., but you might want to ask your dr. about Trazadone. It is an anti depresant, and definitely helps with sleep, and helped me sleep during my wdls. I just wouldn't take too much and not for too many days in a row, because it also has some wdl affects. I had some vertigo from it which was really anoying.

Another thing you may want to consider is taking a very low dose of suboxone for awhile until your mood and life get more 'stabalized' and then taper and jump as soon as you feel ready. That sounds like a way better option to me than relapsing on oxy which could kill you and definatly won't help you get your life back in order. My husband has been on suboxone maintenance for many years, and is a pretty darned good husband and dad. I'd prefer he be 'totally' clean, but subs are WAY better than the heroine habit that was killing him and drove us totally apart for a year when the kids were very young.

-BF

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:48 pm 
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@BF, I'm pretty sure this guys doctor refused to give him trazadone. As for the Tylenol PM, I don't see why taking it as prescribed would hurt your diabetes. My husband is diabetic, and it doesn't cause him any problems. Honestly though, if ambien and unisom didn't help I don't see why the trazadone would be any different.

Mike, I have to agree with BFing on the suggestion of going on a low dose of suboxone for awhile. You really should be feeling better by now if you are just detoxing from the oxy. At this point, what do you have to lose? I know you tried subs for a bit, but you never really gave them a shot doing it the proper way. Meaning to find the right dose for you, just what you need to get your cravings and symptoms under control. It is definitely the better choice if you are close to relapsing. If it's gotten so bad that your wife has left, I think you need some time of stability to get things in order. It sounds to me like you have more going on than just straight up oxy withdrawal, and you need some time to get everything figured out. Suboxone can give you that stability, and time to make you and your marriage strong enough to live through this.

Don't go back to the oxy, dude. It ain't worth it!

Q

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Hey mike!

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, god knows I and most of the people in this forum have been there. The insomnia is one of the killers for me, always has been. I've gotten clean and relapsed maybe a hundred times (I was never really ready to let go of my addiction and be honest with the people around me and myself).
I just wanted to throw an idea at you, something that's worked from me from time to time. I know it's the worst when you feel so completely exhausted and drained and sleep will not come. I also know that the harder I've fought to sleep, the more miserable I felt. I can't say exactly why but losing that battle makes you feel even more exhausted and yet less able to sleep. What I've done is just give in to the insomnia instead of laying in bed thinking about how tired I am and dwelling on how much I wish I could sleep. I'll get up, watch a movie, read a book, surf the web, whatever to kill the time and distract myself from obsessing on not sleeping. My personal record is seven nights and eight days without so much as a wink, but I've done near that many times. Eventually, you will sleep. It might not be a full night, but it'll come.
As other people in this thread have pointed out, time is the only thing that's really going to help and eventually, your body will be forced into sleep.
Anyway, just a thought. Try not worrying so much about sleeping or how tired you are. From what I've read in the thread, you don't have to get up and go to work (which can really suck when you finally fall asleep and have to get up in an hour) so just kill time doing whatever it is that you enjoy doing with your time (besides oxy, of course!), take a deep breath and feel confident that a good night's rest isn't as far off as it seems. I know, easier said than done, but doable just the same. And keep coming back to the forum! There are good people here that genuinely care.
Best of luck, man!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:58 pm 
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Thanks for the responses guys. Have NOT relapsed. Sleep is still a big issue but everything else seems to be fading away, moods way better and leg pain has subsided greatly. Gonna toughen out the sleep thing as long as it takes. Thanks to everybody who responded, I didn't respond right away but I saw your responses minutes after you send them and gave me positive reinforcement that I can do this. Thanks guys....gals. God bless you all.

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:52 am 
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Hey Mike,
Ive looked over your thread here this morning and uno this is a one day at a time thing. It ll be up and down for a number of weeks not jusf days. I think you understand that.
This can be a loug process, and as Q said you can go back and start a maintenance program. There is help in numbers in those 12 step rooms too.
I worry for you because it can be awhile before you come out the other end on this. Once the acute Wd s start to go away please be careful of relapse Mike. This can happen when we start to feel to good. Uno?.

I hope the wife and kids are back, i read here that you need them for support. Keep posting Mike...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:01 am 
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Thank you Razor, still clean. Gonna be 4 weeks on Monday. I'm staying with my aunt and uncle right now so I can try to get better nights rest, but me and the wife are on great terms and I still see my children everyday, I've been here for 3 nights now. Plan to go home on Monday most likely. Had to take more benzo to sleep again last night, I know, I know, I definitely shouldn't have but my anxiety was so bad when I laid down to bed. I'm out of it now. Still taking 600mg of gabapentin at night but thinking I might drop that too. I heard it can also be addicting. So scared of my bed when its time for sleep its unbelievable. Anybody have an idea to deal with it? Most time during the day my anxiety is fine, sometimes its there but I can deal with it. At night, different story. Also I can't get a good number 2, I eat and eat and eat but it almost seems to never come out. I tried stool softener, worked somewhat but not really. Any ideas guys? Thanks for the responses, its nice to be able to talk with people who have been where I am. It helps greatly. God bless you all.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:45 am 
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Heyyyyo mike!
Just a couple suggestions for your #2 issue... First one is a capsule you can get online. It's called PoopDoc and it's a magnesium based supplement you can get it at PoopDoc.com. I've used it on and off for opiate related constipation and it works fantastic and quick without any cramping or gas pains. Another one I have recently tried a few times with some success is called Chiro Cleanse. It is available probably online but I got mine from a chiropractic clinic. This one is a senna based tea and works really well too. Hope that helps:)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:24 pm 
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Still sleeping like crap. Stomach still messed up. Eating like crazy and nothing is coming out. Starting to think the Tylenol PM is actually making things worse at night instead of making them better. Losing hope but all my physical symptoms are gone beside unbelievably sore legs, ankles and feet. Nothing seems to help with the legs. Thinking is trying a muscle relaxer. That's what keeps me up at night, my legs throbbing. Unbelievable. But for anybody curious, I have not relapsed. Actually staying at my aunts house now, whose husband is prescribed 5mg oxycodone for chronic pain and I haven't used a single one. Just curious, would one 5mg oxy set me back really far? Don't want to get high, just want to stop this nagging leg pain. Used to take me 60mg snorted in order to get high so I know 5-10mg of oxy would not do the trick but would it actually help with my legs? Just asking. Anyways, hopefully some words of encouragement are on the way. God bless.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Mike,

I am sorry you are still going through sleep issue from withdrawls. .. But PLEASE do NOT take any oxys. This is the kind of thinking that will get you right back into a relapse. Seriously. Just being in a house where you know that there are oxys laying around is a very BAD idea. I think it would drive almost anyone crazy knowing there is some feel good meds just an arms length away.

I would seriously consider a low dose maintenance on Subs.

Please be very careful. You are in such a vulnerable state right now that I am afraid for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Please don't worry for me. I've been here for 6 days now and haven't used ANYTHING. I was just wondering if it would help with the aching legs. Just orally eating 2 5mg tabs. That's all. Just enough to take this pain away so I can get some damn sleep. I know 10mg will not get me high. Not with how heavy my habit was. Its been 30 days since my last opiate use to I don't know if 10mgs one time would really mess up my recovery or would it be safe? What I don't want to happen is to start this process all over again after making it a month. I was only asking if it would set me back or not? There is zero chance I will take them 2 nights in a row. None. Only for tonight to stop my leg pain and possibly get an 8 hour sleep that I'm so damn desperate for. I'm sure many addicts have said the same exact words right before a bad relapse but that will not be me. If there is a chance I have to go through withdrawal all over again just got taking 10mg then I won't take it. Just want an HONEST answer as to what I'm looking at here.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:31 pm 
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Mike,
Honest answer, it may give you a few hours relief...maybe 4 at most, but it will reset the progress you have made and set you back for more of the problems with withdrawal. I completely understand everything you are saying and thinking at this time...I've thought the exact same things. But, it is just rationalizing things trying to give yourself permission or a reason to take the oxy...or in other words to relapse...5mg, 10mg, or 60mg, it's still a relapse. You've come way too far to give up now.

The Tylenol PM should help a little bit. A hot bath right before bed also helped me a lot when I was suffering withdrawal.

Keep on talking to us, but, please, don't take anything and ruin your hard work!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:37 pm 
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If you really think that 10mg will set me that far back after 30 days clean...... Really? I know it will set me back in terms of wasting all that clean time, but you seriously think it will set me back into physical withdrawals? I respect your opinion but I must call BS on that. I've decided not to take anything tonight because my leg pain is a lot less severe then it was yesterday. But it seems like this may be a slight scare tactic. Physical withdrawals after a month clean from 10mgs? Seems kind of strange to me. To be clear, I know it a slippery slope that I should absolutely avoid. But to set me back into withdrawals..... I don't think so. Anyways, thanks for the responses. I don't agree, but I appreciate the feedback. God bless you all.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:31 pm 
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Mike...you are playing with fire..your thinking is. I couldnt agree more with the last two posts from the other members.
These arent "scare tactics " man. This is what happens to oipate addicts. Thoses who are fighting early wd.
You asked what 5 or10 mgs would do. No,it wouldnt send you into "WD", but with your tolerance so low you would reset the addict in your brain. Your legs would be fine, sure. You could possibly have a great nights sleep. But then what Mike? What about the next day or the day after.?
And Mike, what happened to your thoughts on Never ever taking a opiate again? Doing it for your family?
Mike, im not judging here. Honestly im not. But ive been following you off and on and you say not to "worry about you",well we do . Thats why we are members here..if you want me to shut up I will, but as several people have said and suggested you need more help. More accountability maybe. A live person to help besides us? Na/Aa..?

Look you have the 30 days and counting but how are you going to say stopped man.. Willpower alone just doesn't cut over the loug haul.

Idk to me,imo,your in the danger zone. I understand you want to live drugfree but at what expense? I dont know everything about all of this, but I know what DrcJunig has stated time and again , and that to recover from opiates you need to stay opiate free. Period. And that it takes 8 to 12 weeks for new reseptors to build. All this is over in the Talkzone.
Just my 2cents Mike. Thats all man. I hope like hell you do not pick up. .I would encourage you as others have said to think about a low maintenance dose of Buprenorphine. But thats up to you, as everything else is..

We do care Mike....

Razor


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:37 pm 
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Thanks Razor, you're 100% right, I'm trying to make excuses to use again. I've went home and far away from my aunts house because I knew I was making excuses to myself looking for a reason to use "lightly". Apologize for getting so hostile in my response. I know you guys care, that's why I jumped on this site after lurking for quite a while. I'm not going to use and I bet tomorrow morning I'll be happy that I didn't. Gettibg my first haircut since I quit opiates, tomorrow. Only a haircut but call me crazy, I'm super excited about it. Laying in bed with my wife and two baby girls now. Going to bed soon. Hopefully its a nice sleep tonight. God bless you all.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:41 am 
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Glad your back with the kids and wife. A great place to find strength. .

And haircuts?, well they can do wonders for a person. That i know for sure....Hang in there Mike..





Razor


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:19 am 
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Thanks Razor, and yes I just left the barbershop and feel like a new man. Incredible what something that small can do for a mans confidence. Had another horrible night of sleep but I feel like I just need to be patient and wait for it to come back. Have a Dr appointment later today and was going to ask for some kind of medication for sleep and something for these aching legs. I heard clonidine is very good for sleep and anxiety. Anybody have any suggestions? Something non addictive obviously. God bless you all. Thanks for the motivation.

Mike


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