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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:56 am 
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hi. ive been on suboxone for 10 months today is the 5th day off subs after jumping off at less than a mill a day. i bought 10 bags of H a couple months ago for the withdrawal. my friend said that he dulled the wd with the real opiate and to do just enough to make you feel better. ive been doing like 3 bumps a day (probly a little more than half a bag) it does take the edge off and allow me to sleep for a about 4 hours, but for the most part i still feel like complete ccrap. when i do a tiny bit i feel comfortable for like 3 hours till the wd starts to kick back in again. the first few nights i slept for like 6 hours but today i only got 2 hours doing the same amount of h i did the previous nights plus i took a sleeping pill.I guess my question is if i run out of H by day like 13 am i going to be w/ding from both of them at the same time? would it be better to do more of it now or slowly start doing less? idk what to do i just cant wait for this to be over.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:04 am 
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do you think the h is making it worse and im just wding from that ontop of the suboxone?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:32 am 
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Are you making it worse?? Yes..you want it to be over? now it ll take louger..
Sorry...

You want "done with this", stop everything and wd an wait...
Sorry again but thats how i have seen it and maybe read alittle more here..there are others who will come aloug and give you are the details..
and i know WD is never easy, best of luck..razor


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:34 am 
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How it goin man? That logic would work in a perfect world and good god that would be amazing if you could quit suboxone with dope. But there's something wrong when you need suboxone to quit dope. Then dope to quit suboxone. Crutch for a crutch for the initial crutch. Your only delaying the inevitable unfortunately. The key is to rid yourself of anything that will attach itself to your opiate receptors(Suboxone, dope, methadone etc. ) if you use the dope to ween off of the subs your receptors are still getting hit and therefore once your done with those bags you got, you will still go through withdrawal. Perhaps even worse than if you were to have just jumped off from the subs. You just gotta get a good taper plan with subs. The harsh reality is that there is no pain free way out of this. There's only a some what coushiony way with tapering and possibly some short term benzos(Xanax, Klonipin, Valium). If you can get some clonidine it will help redude your blood pressure and help with the restless legs. I start by cold turkey off suboxone tomorrow after 4.5 months of taking 4-6mg down to 1.5-3mg or so a day. I've jumped off at higher doses before and the first few days are pretty brutal. Especially waiting for that long suboxone half life to take its course. If you can get a trial membership at a 24 hour gym with a sauna or steam room id highly recommend it. From past experiences it helps immensely. It strait up cuts a couple days off of the withdrawal and if you go late at night no one will be there and then you can head strait home, pop a Xanax and get at least some sleep. Getting the motivation to go really rough but well worth it. Immodium is pretty hyped up but for sure cop yourself a bottle of it to sip on for your tummy and overall symptoms. Everything I've just explained to you is the plan I'm about to be using these next few unfortunate days. It's worked for me but like I said, no matter what you do it's still gonna hurt. You can just make it a little easier on yourself. Finish your bag of dope or toss it out if you can. Just cherish that last little taste of bliss and comfort. But in no way was picking those bags up going to help you. Only delaying the impending withdrawal. Hope this helps and keep in touch if you'd like. I'm by no means a "pro" or a veteran. Just a dude who has been to hell and back more times than I'd like to admit and learned a few things from trial and error/research. In fact i just literally posted my own little cry for advice. There's always more to learn and moral support from those who know the deal helps immensely. Good luck and keep your head up homie.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:35 am 
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Welcome to you!

My friend Razor is right.....

It could be that you are still withdrawing a little bit from the H and the subs are just covering it up. But that may depend on how much sub you were taking each day for those 10 months you were on it? Your highest dose?

You said you jumped about 5 days ago from less than a 1mg. Were you at a higher dose of sub before that, and what was it? How long? The half life of H is very short, while the half life of suboxone is very long. Depending on the amount of sub you had previously had "built-up" in your system, if you run out by day 13 as you ask, you most likely will be withdrawing from the suboxone alone.

I just want to make certain you understand that suboxone is intended to help those addicts that want a change of life for the better, without other drugs. Going back and forth between suboxone and other drugs is not the way to approach it. I'm not intending any judgement, just explaining.

You will always be in this situation if you continue as you are. Either you want to continue to use your drug of choice, or you want to completely stop and get out of that lifestyle with the possible use of suboxone. That is your decision to make. Can't have it both ways. The risk is high for serious problems. Hope this helps and all the best to you!

Karen


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Hi Orange,

Your post scares me my friend. I don't want to be too tough here, but if you don't see why taking H to get off suboxone is counterproductive then I don't think you are ready to discontinue the subs at all. I know what you are feeling, I'm an addict too. I know how our addiction can make us come up with all of these crazy ways to convince ourselves that we can get out of this easy and be ok without just manning up and going through the pain. But it's not going to work. If you were consistently taking less than 1mg of suboxone, then the amount of H you are currently taking has only succeeded in driving your tolerance back up. Thus making it even harder for you to repair those receptors in your brain. The only thing that will start reparing those things is time off of ALL opiates. You can't cheat the system, as badly as I wish we could, it just doesn't work.

I think you should really take a hard look at your long term sobriety and realize that you won't be able to taper the H now any more effectively than you could have before you started the suboxone. If you could have done that wouldn't you have done that before instead of going through suboxone treatment to begin with?

I'm sorry you are here orange. But give it some thought, for real, serious thought without letting your addiction cloud your judgement. And think about going back on the subs long enough to get some real recovery under your belt. Attend some AA/NA meetings or get into an addiction counselor.

I wish you the best of luck Orange...

Q

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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:28 pm 
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i been taking like .5 a day for 3 months never went over a mill a day . i needed a mist of powder like every like 5 h ours to feel better. its been 12 hours day 5 no h and i feel pretty damn good actually. ive done 3 bags over the past 5 days. im probly going to just do smaller amounts of the h if i start feeling real shitty again and try to kinda taper down. yea i mean i understand how this is kinda stupid i mean idk ive heard from more than just one person that it makes tsub wd withstandable if u dont cheat urself and do as little as you can and kinda wean off the dope. theres no way im going to relapse and start doing opiates all the time again like thats not even an option. i mean i was never really a huge addict if i was all that dope woulda been gone a long time ago im ean its been sitting in a jar for 2 to 3 months


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:36 pm 
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this is the second time ive ver bought heroin in my life. like i did perc 30s for like 5 months and then couldnt afford it so i did subboxone to get high for like 5 weeks then avoided coming off them for like aonther 6 months which was so dumb. i never needed subs in the first place


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:58 pm 
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i guess my theory was trade a bad 2 to 3 weeks for a maybe worse 1 week


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:47 am 
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I am not sure what your strategy is. If the withdrawal is too extreme, then go back on Suboxone and taper down very slowly until you are only taking a sliver.

You will never succeed by alternating 2 opiates. No matter what your strategy is, you will experience some discomfort at some point. It is unavoidable.

There is a clear trade-off: Suffer longer but mildly by tapering down or suffer for a shorter time by discontinuing rapidly.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:13 pm 
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I think this should go without saying, but your plan is pretty flawed. In a fatal way.

Going back to a short-acting, highly addictive opioid during a taper/detox isn't going to work. Like, pretty much ever. What its going to do is give you wicked cravings when you try to stop (if you can stop) and make it even harder to come off the Suboxone.

Part of recovery is changing attitudes, ideas, and behaviors. I strongly suggest that you figure out some way to address those things, and perhaps try another Suboxone taper/maintenance. I don't mean to be rude AT ALL, but it doesn't seem like you planned this out very well, if at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:19 pm 
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I am not an expert, but I agree with the other members post.

My advise would be to throw away any H you have left. If you can't do that you need to go back on SUBS. If you are truly out of H or can actually throw it away then why don't you taper a little lower. My goal is to hit .25, maybe lower, then skip 1 day, 2 days,3,4,5, jump.

to my understanding the purpose of a taper is to reduce Wd's and PAWs. If .25 mg of sub = 8mg of oxycodone then .5 mg would equal a decent amount of oxy which is why you need to go as low as possible with your taper. Just my 2 cents.

I wish you the best of luck!!!


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