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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:08 am 
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I tapered down to .75 for a week, .5 for 3 days, then .3 for 2 days, and then on the last day did probably a total of 1 mg (oops). I'm guessing there was quite a bit of sub in my blood. It's day 3... and it's totally fine! I mean, besides the sneezing, terrible gas, goose bumps, hot/cold/hot/cold, decreased strength, and only a few hours of sleep at night. Ahhh that's nothing! I mean, I can walk... I can get on the computer... I can exercise. I've got some *bathroom issues* but I'm eating normal -- actually, way more than normal -- it's how I get back to sleep at night. But because of that -- Has it not hit me yet?? I hear that day 3 is usually as bad is it will get, and then maybe days 4-6 are like day 3, and then it gets better. Am I kidding myself? Is it going to slap me in the ass in a few days?

Well, all opinions are welcomed!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:34 am 
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invisiblemovement wrote:
I tapered down to .75 for a week, .5 for 3 days, then .3 for 2 days, and then on the last day did probably a total of 1 mg (oops). I'm guessing there was quite a bit of sub in my blood. It's day 3... and it's totally fine! I mean, besides the sneezing, terrible gas, goose bumps, hot/cold/hot/cold, decreased strength, and only a few hours of sleep at night. Ahhh that's nothing! I mean, I can walk... I can get on the computer... I can exercise. I've got some *bathroom issues* but I'm eating normal -- actually, way more than normal -- it's how I get back to sleep at night. But because of that -- Has it not hit me yet?? I hear that day 3 is usually as bad is it will get, and then maybe days 4-6 are like day 3, and then it gets better. Am I kidding myself? Is it going to slap me in the ass in a few days?

Well, all opinions are welcomed!


Hi im,

I'm on Day 12 totally off after tapering and today is a real good day for me. But, yes, the mental aspect of it now is going to be your biggest hurdle, at least it has been for me the last 4-5 days or so. I still would feel more secure with a Sub or two, but if I've gone this many days and come this far, I know I can get by without them now. It's also Day 29 off of Opiates for me too, something I hardly ever think about doing anymore at all.

This week may be a little rough for you. I thought after days 3-7 I was in the clear and then this past week got a bit rough. Until today, anyway. I did a LOT of walking to get through it, trying to think about all of the positives of being done with pills. It worked for me. Maybe something along those lines can work for you too.

Also, if you've saved any money not buying pills or subs, treat yourself to something you normally wouldn't be able to afford to buy. I've told a few people this already, little things like that remind you of the good you are doing for yourself and everyone around you. You deserve it to even come this far so far.

Good luck. But be prepared to fight through it. You will just tell that little voice in your brain that you are better than it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:13 am 
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Hey, that's exactly what I've been telling myself!! -- that after this is all done, I can go buy something. I haven't actually thought of anything besides Rally's chili cheese fries, a shit ton of Taco Bell, and a big-ass banana split. Preferably in the same day.. lol.
omg i'm going to replace an opiate addiction for a food addiction... nahhhhhh

It's great to hear you are feeling better after day 12. Sounds likes everything is going great for you, and I look forward to feeling the same.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Hey IM,

I'd say the symptoms you've listed are pretty typical and if they're not bothering you too much, then that's fantabulous!!

I really don't think the rug is all of a sudden gonna be pulled out from under you. Your symptoms may intensify a bit, but I don't see them going ape shit on ya.

That's funny you mention how good your appetite is through all of this. Any other time I got off of opiates, I wouldn't be able to eat for days, but during my Suboxone wd, I ate pretty steady. I only ate bacon and drank the hell out of some Gatorade, but at least I was eating. Something else that I found funny was the fact that I gained 25lbs through my wd. At the time, I thought I was the only Ding Dong on the planet to be going through wd who gained weight.....looks like you might be number 2!!! LOL

I hope things continue to go smooth for you and I hope you get your Rally's, Taco Bell and your banana split!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Funny Romeo mentioned the weight gain thing...I gained 30 pounds when I came off suboxone too. I seriously could not get full, I've never eaten so much in my life. Some of it had to do with the fact that I had been weight training pretty hard prior to quitting and I was eating more than I normally would already, and then the training stopped when I quit but the eating didn't. but my stomach was really, really whacky for a while, had to really force myself to slow down on the food.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:37 am 
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Well both you guys are totally right -- I'm eating even more and craving everything. I lost a bit of weight on the dope, so maybe the opiates were making me not so hungry -- even though it seemed liked every time I would have a fix, any kind of opiate, I would get hungry... so it was probably messing with my appetite in between doses. Everything almost feels back to normal - no joke! And it's only day 4! So either the sub is really f***in lingering in my system, or it got flushed out immediately! Today is definitely the best day yet.

Time will only tell if somehow it will randomly get worse... but for all you taperers out there who are wondering what is possibly going to happen, I will give you the lowdown:

Day 1) Already felt withdraws 24 hours later at work. Thought the first day would be the freebee, but it seemed like I was already loosing strength in my body. But I was able to keep a smile on face --- actually, I was laughing at everything. Went home, crashed in front of TV till bedtime. Bedtime woke up several times hot in the night, but was sleeping in a different room that was hotter. Found cooler spot and slept a little better, but not solid sleep. Woke up every now and then.

Day 2) Feelin pretty damn good about myself. I wasn't curled up in a ball in bed, I wasn't thinkin depressing thoughts, I wasn't throwing up. I did have a headache -- acetomenphine and asipirin and naproxen took care of it. Dunno if that combination is OK but w/e it worked. I had a cup of yerba mate (tea bag) damn Ican't even type tea bag without laughing my ass off everything seriously is making me laugh here on Day 4 as I typed this.... n e ways... 6 hours after the tea bag hahaha... it's got 30 mg of caffeine in it... I had the restless legs. Dunno if it had anything to do with caffeine or just coincidence. Made myself run outside and do some aerobic-type exercise. My legs did not work as fast as they did on the sub just days before. Appetite was normal. Strength in body was bad. Watched TV for most of day. Terrible, terrible, terrible gas. The night was worse than previous night -- got up every hour or so, stuffed my face with food, and went back to sleep on couch in front of TV. Had some weird ass dreams -- not bad dreams. Reaaal good dreams.

Day 3) Woke up feeling pretty much fine. Mentally was very positive. Only had a few hours of sleep but felt as if I had a regular night's sleep. Now, my strength was worse... didn't want to do dishes or climb stairs... but did exercise for a while. Not as good exercise as day before, but still -- I was on my feet. Felt so great that I decided to schedule an appointment with the car mechanic/ THEN --- a miracle happened around hour 72... I blasted the classic rock radio station and went CRAZZZZY. I was skippin, runnin, jumpin, singing to the lyrics, yellin WOOOOO and felt like I beat this shit and everything's going to be ok. Coincidentally, this was after I took 1000 mg L-Tyrosine. First day using the L-Ty, and it seemed to work wonders. I then ate a big-ass plate of food and felt mighty fine. I went to the mechanic, and I was laughing at EVERYTHING on the way there. Had to sit in an un-airconditioned shop for 2 hours in the sun, 85 degrees out, but the smells of the auto shop entertained me for 2 hours. The stupedist things were making me happy. Thought I would barely make it in the heat, but after I got my car, I was on another happy streak and went to walmart to get bananas, immodium (oh yeah that shit started this morning), and Valerian Root. I was HAPPIER THAN I WAS IN A LONG TIME. On Day f***in three. Amazing, and I hope it stays this way.

Then I went home and called a friend to bring me a meatball sub from subway and I inhaled it. I ate so much that I was tired and took the valerian root and fell asleep. I woke up every few hours and would want to drink lots of water or use the bathroom, but once I got back to bed I would go right to sleep. The valerian REALLY helped. I had more sweet-ass dreams and woke up singin "Nobody knows the troubles I seen..." with a dang ol smile on my face. Woke up smiling! On day f***in 4!!

Day 4) Well It's only 7 am so I can't say much. But I already have a lot more strength. It ain't like the previous days, where I don't even want to do the dishes... it's where I am subconsciously cleaning all around me and I'm good. I have to go to work today... I will see how that goes. I pray that it's all downhill from here. I'm afraid to get cocky... so I'm going to do what I have been doin through this whole thing... pretend that there is no sub, there is no withdraw, it's just a same old day and I'm fine.


I may be speaking too soon.... I will be sure to give an update for all you people wondering what your withdraw could be like. I will say this much --- I have had more energy and excitement than I ever did on subs. I really do believe the subs were messing with my head and I really had no idea. But I am very grateful for the subs -- I got all my shit in line when I needed to most.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:28 am 
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Yep, sounds like you're on your way for now. Just be guardedly optimistic about it. I felt the same way the first week and then the second week was a bit of a letdown both physically and mentally. But, I didn't take as many vitamins or supplements as I would have liked to either, so that could be the difference for you.

Today's Day 30 without opes and day 13 without subs. I don't feel as good as yesterday that's for sure but last night I was the happiest I've been in a long, long time so all we can do is accept that some days aren't going to be good as others. And you know what? That's called life.

Keep it going buddy. Here for u.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:00 am 
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Hahaaaa yeah life, Life... life... man I been thinkin about all the stupid things I done over the years... and still, before having to leave the house to do stuff, my brain says "OK go grab your sub!"... o wait... what do normal people do to get pumped up? The weird thing is, I can be so squeezed of strength, and then out of the blue somethin will pump me up and it's like I'm totally Not Sick. I think the Bupe worked... I think it really is a great drug... I think my brainpower has a lot to do with keeping my strength up from now on. It's hard to believe when I can barely lift my arms to do shit at times, but then the next minute I'm pumped up for somethin.

I'm glad to hear you're still off the shit and that you're happy. I'm gunna remember that, "It's life".... everyone else deals with it. It's easy to be bad, and say fuck this, but I don't want to be no wimp. I like what you said... cuz, there are always ups and downs with life. With opiates, it was a smooth ride. I mean... with the subs. With other shit it's a bumpy road wondering when you're gonna get your fix, but if you got your shit in line, it's mostly a big ol' dream of life. And that dream just became lucid. Time to wake up... and learn how to deal with stuff without opiates.

The weirdest thing is that I still thought I was high on suboxone. Lol ok it sounds crazy, but I think that I only *thought* I was high on sub for the doses under 2 mg. I think the doctors are right... you can't get high on it... but rather it can *even out your brain* and make you feel good, but it is not the sub at work (at least at the lower doses... or maybe it never did at all? Maybe I tricked myself?). Cuz I still feel like I'm high on sub. So I guess I was not high on it for that last stretch. The docs win again! Thank you scientists for making such a smart lil drug. Doc J the man! God I love him... and his lil avatar.. hahahahaha I love it, he's a good man. I love the avatar, I love the forum, I love the little articles, and all these people here, they just made me believe that everything would be OK, and that had a shit ton to do with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:56 am 
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Dunno if anyone's still following this... but I have some important information about life without subs based on only a few days and how it is better than the dope overall.

I slipped up on the china last night

But to back up to make my point...

Last night I went to work. I smelled the smells I hadn't smelt there in years. I heard my co-workers talk, and I felt as if I knew them. Their voices were different. My voice was different. I felt like I was in an alternate dimension. I could feel music in ways I had not heard the music before. I talked to my coworkers and felt more relaxed and understanding.

Then I found out that the best china to hit the city in years rolled in and I wanted to feel it one more time on a clean slate (brain). Typical addict behavior, trying to make excuses, w/e. I wanted to compare.

Initially it was the best feeling of my life - like someone came behind me with a warm blanket and I felt so, so secure.

But the whole night I chased the high, never to feel that initial feeling ever again. A waste. Just battled to stay awake the whole night. I think this is what I did over the years mostly -- looking for that initial bust, never to really find it unless I was willing to be sick for a day or two. NOT worth it.

It's 12 hours later, I'm still high, and I don't feel me. I feel lost, in lala land, and it sucks. I want to come back to earth. I remember yesterday so great, and I thought that I felt in an alternate universe, and in my head I really was. I always make plans to stay clean when I'm high, cuz it's so easy, but this time I really want it to be different.

Sorry to disappoint everyone. I crave the good feeling I felt this past week - the clean feeling. A person I had not felt in years. I am very hopeful that this will be my last sha-bang -- I wanted to *go out in style* --- I would have been curious the rest of my life. It had almost been a year since I touched the shit. Well, I got a subutex I can take whenever I need it -- no worries about waiting. It's a quarter of an 8 mg. This will be my only helper, and I will post back tomorrow.

The important thing is this: I feel down. It's a downer, this drug. I feel depressed. NOTHING is making me happy. There is no meaning to this life right now. I don't like that. I want to be with everyone else -- the hard workers in this world. The genuine people.

I only pray that God will give me a second chance. I am not regretful though -- because now I know the difference. And I am happy to quit. (I know I know, you're thinking -- You say this now, but tomorrow when you rollin around in bed you gunna be sayin different!) Well, we will see.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:04 pm 
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One thing I did when I stopped it all was delete all of my contacts to get drugs. it's the only way. These people want to keep you using. They don't care about you only to ensure that you are paying them. You won't ever hear from them again when you stop calling them for drugs. They don't care.

I understand the slip up though. Last night i was JONESING for one last perc, which I know is a poor man's version of what you did. But still, the brain in us is pretty similar. Luckily, I don't know where to get them anymore since I did get rid of all of the contacts. Plus, today I'm at a month without them and wanted to reach that mark. It was important to me.

We all have the right to make our own choices. I definitely won't denigrate you for making that choice last night. To stay clean though, it's all or nothing, at least that is my mindset. There's no stopping until I can do 1 here and there. There's no stopping until I actually need them for pain. There's no stopping until anything but my death and I refuse to have that death be aided by opiates anymore.

I'm sure you have far more experience than me at this. Perhaps I sound like everyone else who eventually falls off of the wagon too. I'm determined not to be that guy.

But it doesn't mean you can't try again immediately. And succeed!

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Hey IM,

I remember when I first got off of Suboxone how I marvelled at the leaves on the trees, it was like I had forgot that trees had leaves? I also smelled all the new smells too and music was fantastic again for me. I think a lot of us go through this when we get off Suboxone.

*sigh*, I also remember as I got to feeling pretty good after being off Suboxone that one of the first things I did was try some pain pills again. Like you, the initial feeling was good, but then I had to chase it. Within 4 days, I was back up to taking 3 or 4 pills at a time, 5 or 6 times a day. I was stunned at how quickly my tolerance came back. It took me a few slips before I finally realized that I can not use drugs successfully AND being on pain pills made me feel polluted.

I hope this is your first and last slip. I hope you got what you needed out of it to continue on with your sobriety.

There's a saying in NA that goes something like this, "Relapse is not a requirement during recovery, but it's often a reality of it."

Get back up, dust yourself off and keep heading in the right direction!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Yo invisible,

Keep your head up. It's very hard to learn there is no such thing as 'one last time' or 'going out with a bang' for people like us. It just doesn't work. I'm routing for you to get back on track. If all else fails, being on sub isn't the worst thing ever.

Good luck,

-Glen b


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Hey seasonasdad, romeo, and glen bee, thanks for replying. Your few minutes you have set aside have really, really made me feel better. I was feeling really shitty and really lonely before I read what you all wrote. I cannot see you all, or know you all personally, or hear you all, yet a human presence was enough to snap me out of this *feeling sorry for myself* slump. I was thinking I would be bashed here on the forum for being so irresponsible. It is nice to know that there is always support here.

I ended up doing 1 mg of subutex because I had to fix my withdraws to meet my sister for dinner. Thank you Lord for subutex. Now to see if I can bare not using it tomorrow. I will remember what you said though glen bee, that it is OK if I use subs. It is better than the shit.

I prepared so much for this jump, picking apart every possible symptom -- except for The Urges to do more. I can't believe I didn't even think about it for 2 seconds.

Well, time for round 2. I'll be more prepared this time.

seasonasdad - you are quite right about staying away from people/getting rid of #'s. I broke up with my bf and moved out of his house because I wanted to start subs and he didn't after we both tried many, many times. Unfortunately, he is who I get the subs from and is the number 1 ONLY person in this entire world outside of this forum that knows anything about my addiction and I feel like I *need* that one person to talk to. You are quite right though... had I vowed not to talk to him, this would never have happened. It's not even money -- it's free for me, it's just *misery loves company* (he is the misery), and I think that's why it was so easy for him to give, give, give. *just for the record -- i'm not someone who uses people -- I left two sub strips on his dresser in the morning to be fair*. Thank-you for the good wishes.

Romeo - I did not know that this happened to you. My brain said something like "relapse in progress" just hours before I did the shit. Your little topic header thing actually stuck in my mind, and u know what I said back to it? "No.. i'm no relapse in progress". I actually was in denial. Thank-you for the encouragement and knowing that it's not the end of the world. I think the worst thing I could do right now is give in to these negative thoughts that are flying through my head right now. I was so pumped a few days ago for being so proud of myself... I will remember what you have said about not being hard on one's self.

Glen bee - You are quite right. If we had a nickel for every time we said "last time" - LOL! Ahh yes you are so, so right. Thank-you for routing for me. I will surely remember what you said, to keep my head up.



**And I thought I graduated to the Sub in the Rearview Mirror section!*** Ahhh maybe next week or few....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:59 pm 
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I'll tell you another thing I learned during my lapses, a relapse usually starts well before we take drugs. Taking the drugs is just the last step of the relapse.

In my experience, prior to a relapse, I notice how my thinking starts to get skewed, I will start to joke about taking drugs and whatnot, I start listening to depressing music and one of the last steps is usually me getting shitty with my wife or daughter about something. My wife and I have learned to catch those behaviors fairly early now and it helps a ton with keeping me clean.

I don't mean to get too personal with you, but how long have you been desiring to use? Once you let that desire take hold, the door to the relapse was opened and once that door is opened, it's hard to shut. You need to learn to recognize those behaviors real fast and shut that door.

A lot of those desires to use are also "triggered" by something. You should understand what your triggers are and work on eliminating them.

A lot of triggers can come from living your life out of balance. My addiction therapist used to drill into my head to live my life in balance.

*sigh*, I've droaned on long enough. I think the most important thing you have to do is learn from what happened and move on. You can be drug free, if I can do it, anyone can do it!!! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:37 pm 
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I'm glad you asked that question. I always thought I asked and answered that question constantly throughout my sub use, after reading books about habits, after assessing myself after being mad with co-workers, families or friends... but once someone else asked the question, I retraced my steps to a totally undiscovered trigger. I think it's a desire to bond with other people. And I feel the need to use drugs to bond with people. I think i have social issues. I think I need a major lifestyle shift.

To answer your other question, I was only thinking about using for a few hours before I slipped up. I never thought about using brown during my sub use (except for first month and 1 slip up). But when I recall times that I used more sub that what I scheduled myself to do... it always comes back to times I have to be around people. I think I'm covering up shyness or self-consciousness or something. My god you just opened up a whole new can of worms. I love talking to people, and when I'm in public I always want to talk to people, but for some reason I'm thinking about using before any major event. I think I have social anxiety. I wonder how many other people this is true for. I bet it is probably not uncommon. I'm not going to let this bring me down. It's time to face reality and face problems the right way.

I guess I better expose myself to people to get over this trigger. Join a church... can't really go to a bar, I'll end up drinking... get more involved in grad school... stop spending all this time on the forum... lol :)... But really.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:53 pm 
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The time on this forum is very real, at least I have learned that in the past week or so since I've joined. We're all in this together regardless of whether we have actually spoken or seen each other. I've learned more about myself here in 4-5 days than I thought I knew while I was high. I almost relished being the reclusive loner who did pills and smoked weed at home every night slowly trying to kill myself I guess. And I used to be the social person you are talking about in yourself. That all changed for me in the past 8-10 years. Because, I mean before opes, I totally enjoyed cocaine. Far too often. Well, I enjoyed cocaine except for the staying up all night part and trying to land some at 430am on a Wednesday morning.

But, of course, you really become a different person on coke and everyone knew I was doing it and was embarrassed to be around me. So, I secluded myself more and more from everyone. I stopped coke because I found myself at my guy's place at midnight on a Tuesday night trying to front an 8-ball about 4 hours after I had bought an 8-ball already. That's when you know you've got problems. Plus, like I said, I never really enjoyed not being able to fall asleep. Sure the sex was outstanding hahaha, but the people you do it with? They're just as fucked up as you but you don't realize it til after you've given it up, y'know... And most of them just fuck because you're giving them drugs so how empty can it get?

But, back to my point, narcotics/opiates? They are called downers for a reason like you have said. Let me ask, these social situations, are the people you are around using? Because if that is the case, then yeah, I can totally see why you'd be itching to use before an outing or get together.

Cleaning up has become a change in total lifestyle as short as it has been for me. And this is really the first time since I started using drugs that I've quit. The last 18 years between the pot phase(which will never, EVER end), the alcohol, the xanax, the valiums, the LSD phase, the mushroom phase, the Ecstasy phase, etc. One big haze. But I had a great time during most of those years. It's been the last 10, the coke/ope phase, that I really changed into this homebound monster that was still having a good time because I enjoyed the drugs.

I guess I'll never actually be 'clean' if I'll always smoke weed. But, it's either that or antidepressants, and I find them hypocritical to take because I am a logical, reasonable person who can methodically and intellectually make decisions on my own. So I don't want to take pills to make me happy. That's not a knock on medically depressed or even synthetically depressed(i.e. users) people that do need them or do use pills or china or anything else to make themselves think they are happy like I did. I've been there so I know.

Looking back now and coming up on the beginning of my second pill free month and seeing that 32-day number makes me not want to throw it all away. Sure, I get urges. I fucking have 8 10mg percs sitting in my bureau upstairs that I found cleaning out the drawers the other night. But, I refuse to start again because I've come soooo, so far. In all honesty, I keep telling myself that the pain I endured for 5-8 days between the ope withdrawal and the sub weaning/wd is just no longer worth going back to being a downer.

I'm telling you, happiness is possible without the demons of drugs. It just takes time, but not nearly as long as you might think. I'm at one month, and the happiest I've been since high school. I'm 35 now soon to be 36, and I feel like life is starting over.

PM me if you want to let it go. I don't judge. I totally understand. And I'm here to read and hear you out if it will clear your mind. I may be new, and I may have some minor problems compared to others, but I'm living proof that time clears this whole thing up if you just give your mind away to that reality.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:41 am 
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I started this thread a while back, check it out, it's about social anxiety. If I remember correctly, there were some good suggestions in there.

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3836

Also, now that you did use, you may find that door to a relapse still open. Only you truly know if it's open or not. I just want you to think about it.

Another thing I remember from my time in NA was this quote out of the Basic Text, "You never HAVE to use drugs again." That simple, yet profound statement floored me when I read it. I almost fell out of my chair when I read that!! For some reason, even though I had completely quit drugs by the time I read it, I still had a notion in my head that I was gonna use again, but reading that statement helped me to understand that I really don't ever have to use drugs again. I used drugs because I wanted to, not because I had to. Once I realized that, I started trying to understand why I wanted to use drugs and one by one started addressing those behaviors and thoughts that made me want to use.

In your case, you've already figured out that social situations tend to make you want to use and that's a huge breakthrough. It took me months and months to make the progress you've made in a few days!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:28 am 
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Trust me Sub withdrawal doesn't really kick your ass til about 5 days in.. the half life is SOO Long it takes forever to eliminate..

physical withdrawals last about 30 days ( don't get me wrong they are minimal after about 10 days but still there)

PAWS last about 2 years..

Time to feel normal about 5 years


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:47 pm 
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I hope that ain't true cuz I don't want to waste 5 years of my life. But in God's eyes, what is 5 years? There are so many questions.

Well went 29 hours with no sub. Doin fine. Got home from work, found that Sis gave me $100 for watchin her pets -- I thought I was doin it for free. First thought, "How many drugs can I buy with that?" but then I say Nooo nooo noo.. I ain't caving that easy. That was the old me.

Thank-you for sharing your experiences seasonasdad and romeo. They are the ones that I think of during the day. When I am feelin slow, it is you people that I tell myself to remember. That things will get better, and if I take shit, it will only prolong the process.

I was thinking about doing more sub but said No go to the forum and read some positive messages. It has worked so far.

One month, seasonasdad? Huh. One month to feel happier than you did 20 years ago. Sounds kick-ass to me. I'm going to remember that. That's the problem with coke, that is the same problem with heroin. You end up stayin up all fucking night cuz it's like your brain really can't fucking stop. And I hate thinking that. I like to think I've got power over my brain, but the fact is, it's weakened terribly by hard drugs. That sun rise would always really degrade me on coke. I would always stop at the sunrise thankfully. Dear lord, how are spirits have been crushed by drugs. Thank-you for sharing your story.

HAHA I just read what hopefulsarah posted on that thread u posted Romeo and she is so right. On day 4 of no sub, I felt fucking weird talking to other people. LIke she said "do I sound stupid right now?" and heightened self-consciousness. Subs made me a talk-a-holic. Guess there is a lot of re-training my brain to do.

Well I ain't gunna over-think this, I'm just gunna take it one day at a time, and thanks everyone for reading and sharing


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Hey IM, thanks for the update and WAY TO GO telling your brain Noooo noooo noooo!!!

That's kinda funny what you said about coke and the sunrise. For some strange reason, that was always my cue to stop too. I didn't always go until sunrise, but if I was pulling an all nighter, the sunrise seemed to trigger me to stop?

DoaQ posted this next part in another thread and I wanted to make sure you took a look at it. Her words and wisdom have helped me a lot in my journey and I'm thinking they'll be of use to you too. Check it out:

I guess the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that there are a certain amount of people who will "spontaneously recover" from addiction. These are the people who get clean and stay clean kind of regardless of treatment. They wake up one day and are sick of the shit so they quit, or they have a near-death experience, or they hit bottom, or they just "grow out of it." I know a lot of people like this and I do not understand them at all. They just quit and stay quit and don't really seem to think about it much.

Then there's the rest of us. I don't think there is any magic bullet or secret recipe to staying quit or to staying in recovery. The most important thing is that you have to just do something and you have to stick with it. If you slip, then get back up on the wagon as quickly as you can so that you don't totally lapse back into addiction.

You have to do a lot of work on your own head. You have to come to an understanding that the way you've been relating to the world, to yourself and your life is messed up. You have to learn new ways to deal with shit without getting high...or seeking another unhealthy means of escape. You have to learn how to face up to stuff. How you learn all these things is going to be different for different people. And probably even different for yourself at different times in your life.

Cultivating some kind of discipline in you life is a good idea. For me it's meditation practice, which is a daily thing. For someone else it might be working out, or a practice of rigorous honesty with a sponsor or taking up a martial art...whatever it is, you have to show up and do it even when you don't really feel like it (that's the discipline part).

Getting with a good addiction counselor, especially early in recovery is a good idea. Learning some CBT techniques for dealing with cravings and negative thought patterns is also good (check out SMART recovery for free resources). If you are still with a spouse or partner who survived your addiction with you, getting counseling together might be good as well.

Addressing any underlying physical or mental health issues is important. As is taking good care of your physical and mental health on an ongoing basis.

Make new friends who are either in recovery or just aren't addicts. Most of my recovery-centric interaction comes from this forum - in the rest of my life I hang out with people who just aren't and never were drug abusers. Their way of dealing with things, sense of healthy boundaries, and ability to enjoy life without chemicals has fortunately rubbed off on me. Get new hobbies - especially if drugs were your major source of relaxation and recreation. You need to get some enjoyment out of life or you'll be tempted to go back to drugs. Try new things and keep trying till you find what works.

For me, having goals that I'm trying to reach in my life has been important over the past 5 years. I finished my Associates Degree and started another certificate program, I set goals for learning new things at work, and I have personal goals that I'm trying to accomplish. I can't stand the feeling of stagnating in my life and having a concrete thing to work toward and a way of measuring my progress helps me avoid that feeling. Goals don't have to be huge either to have a big impact on your life. You'd be suprised at what changes a goal like volunteering your time somewhere twice a month or taking a walk with your kid after dinner once a week might bring about in your life.

There is also some research that shows that environment is a HUGE factor in relapse. So I guess if you have the means to totally relocate your life to some place that you've never lived before, that could help. But if you can't do that, you can do things like deleting all your drug contacts out of your phone, cutting off friends that still use and/or don't support your recovery, drive a different way to work if the old, familiar route sets off cravings and whatever else you can think of to avoid or neutralize triggers.

Read up on neuroscience and brain plasticity, read up on addiction medicine and new treatments. There's fascinating new research being done about how we acquire habits and how we can change them. Read the stories of people who have overcome addictions and see what they did to get where they are. Read things that are inspiring to you personally. Do whatever you can to cultivate a positive attitude.

And always remember that this is a process. Change is a process, and a recursive process at that, which means that at times you will regress or backslide or revisit some earlier stage in the process AND THAT IS OK. Just keep moving, keep trying, evaluate what you're doing and adjust.

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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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