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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Well, I'm sad that my post has made you want to stop using the forum. :cry: That certainly wasn't my intention.

You are not bad. It is perfectly human to want to feel better, to seek new experiences, to want to alter consiousness. It's just when you reach a point that you're using it as a coping mechanism, and the negative fallout from that becomes greater than the positive benefit you get from it...then you have a problem. But a problem is not a moral failing, it's just a problem, and we all have those.

Please feel free to stick around while you figure things out. We've all been where you are now, maybe we can help.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:00 pm 
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LoL no no no no!!! No I loved your post! No, I won't quit the forum. I'm probably addicted this thing lol! I just meant that I feel guilty for actually asking for help, thinking I have a serious problem, and just finding out that, hey, I'm probably more mentally addicted to this stuff more than anything. I have so many moods throughout the day I should probably treat this forum like drunk dialing -- just wait until the morning!

Thank you for really understanding my situation!

I am just trying to convince myself that opiates are bad. It is like convincing someone that they should not have sex before marriage or they will go to hell. Well, is God real? I think he is. I like to know he is. But what if he wasn't? Will God ever reveal the purpsoe of life and death? WIll he tell us the secret behind it? How it happened? Well, I like to think so. But what if he doesn't? It's kind of like that. I know opiates are bad, it's just a matter of getting the right information to understand why they are bad. Then I will be much, much more likely to quit.

I think right now what I have so far is that it comes down to self-worth. I like to think that my body and mind is a kick-ass system that can feel good and care for itself. So using opiates would be like cheating. I don't want to be a cheater. I want to know that I am such a cool person that I can make myself happy. This is the basis for my persuasion of myself to stop using subs. I will have to refine it and get back to you. If you've got any ideas please share!! I would love to discuss the ethics of opiate abuse and why the sober life is better. I AM NOT SAYING that the opiate life is better! I am not trying to argue that! I KNOW that the sober life is better. It's just... I've never really gone into the details, and I would like to have something to "work towards" and look forward to.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:16 am 
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Why is a life of opiate use/abuse/addiction bad? First of all, let me say that I have not read this entire thread, but you really seem to want to discuss this topic so I thought I'd reply. Secondly, I said "life of opiate use/abuse/addiction" because a life of opiate use IS abuse and IS addiction. And lifelong addiction almost never happens, frankly, because the person either dies before then or is institutionalized and/or gets clean. The path of opiate addiction rarely if ever remains status quo or on an even keel - it absolutely almost always gets worse. I saw "almost" because there is the very rare lifelong addict, but usually they end up homeless and destitute.

The cycle is usually the same and always downhill. There's the loss of family and friends, often job and money, not necessarily in that order. And then there's the loss of self and/or sanity. I don't just mean lost of our ability to think clearly, I mean basic sanity. My massive drug use alone actually caused a psychotic break that lasted weeks until it peaked into an acute episode that should or could have left me dead (that was when I was put on suboxone).

Very obviously I could go on and on. There is so much evidence of why a life of opiate us is "bad" - they are all over this forum.

I do understand why you're asking this question. You're coming to some realizations within yourself and you're looking for substantial, rational evidence. I hear that. So I hope this helps you, if only a little bit. Take care and keep working on YOU!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:21 pm 
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hatmaker you make a good point. And it has got me thinking.

There's been this fight in me. The old me, the younger me, the teenage me, says you gotta have fun. Then, the new me, the older me, the adult me, says you have to work hard to reap the rewards. And... this means, that I've got to make a decision. I was cruzing facebook today... and realized, there is so much immature crap out there by my friends/old classmates. I don't want to be that. I thought I did but I don't. I must let go of my immature past, and that includes suboxone. Now now now I don't want none of you thinking I'm saying subs are bad! It's just that... I.. abuse suboxone. I used to snort the shit. God it was such a weird feeling... it was cold. Really, cold. Aint that weird? Well it's not cool. It was for a while but I'm starting to realize that it's really not cool. There are way cooler things out there. The genuine things. The deep passionate romantic life, not the drunken crazy sex life. Or, say, the "i make a lot of money and have a nice house" life rather than the "I stay up all night at stranger's houses and pass out on their couch next to their neglected children that are too poor to have their own beds cuz their parents are drug addicts" life. People my age get drunk and sleep with each other. I used to be that, now it's the fad thing until you're 30, and I think that I can't leave it, becuase that's where the fun is at, but... I look at that, and I don't like what I see. I'm starting to realize what I want. I'd rather be a book nerd or something, marry a bill gate type dude, u know, save sex for marriage, have a retirement fund at the age of 25, u know?

Anyways... just wanted to share my thoughts. maybe some of them you can align with. Now, I'm talking about these opiate abusers, the young folks like myself, maybe not the serious adults, the people that have been fighting pain for decades and are doing subs as an intelligent option. Hell maybe you're twice my age and are having the same thoughts as me anyways.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:06 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]First of All, Youre funny....the way you word things makes me laugh. Has anyone ever told you that? I am sure that they have. Second~I think that most of us have been in the place, mentally, that you are speaking of. I know that I have been. I am there now. Where I don't want anything to do with drama, or negative people, or fly by night relationships. I am genuinely happy the way that my life is right now. I don't need a man, or anyone. I have my son, and we are kicking ass!

I just wanted to tell you that where you are at, is right where you are supposed to be. I believe that. We are all where we are supposed to be. You can have any one of those things that you are wanting. Hell, you can have all of them. Just make the right choices and they can be yours. If you ever get stuck on which choice is the right one, remember this~It's the harder one. Nothing worth having ever comes easy.

Good luck and keep on posting. It seems to be helping you find your way![/font]

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:57 pm 
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I finally gave my friend all of my subs

I thought of you Kelly how you said the harder choice is the right one. And so I said OK today is the day and gave him all my subs.

And the best part is he finally kicked the dope, rolled around in bed for a few days, and is on 4 mg suboxone. So I don't have to worry about visiting and relapsing. It's crazy, he is prescribed 80 mg of subs a day, yet he just kicked the habit with 4 mg. What are these doctors doing?? Mind you, he get subutex too. And he ain't pregnant :P but the doc knows it's the only way he can afford them. The DEA has even been hounding the doc cuz he failed his piss test 9 times in a row. How this doctor is still in business is beyond me.

It's the weekend of exams. I've got a cold. Am I crazy to quit now? I think I'd be crazy not to at this point. I'm just shutting down my mind for a few days, and then I will come back Tuesday, and say Hey the clouds have lifted, it's all over, now just worry about the mental crap, the worst is through. That's my plan, and I'm sticking to it.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:19 am 
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invisiblemovement wrote:
I finally gave my friend all of my subs

I thought of you Kelly how you said the harder choice is the right one. And so I said OK today is the day and gave him all my subs.

And the best part is he finally kicked the dope, rolled around in bed for a few days, and is on 4 mg suboxone. So I don't have to worry about visiting and relapsing. It's crazy, he is prescribed 80 mg of subs a day, yet he just kicked the habit with 4 mg. What are these doctors doing?? Mind you, he get subutex too. And he ain't pregnant :P but the doc knows it's the only way he can afford them. The DEA has even been hounding the doc cuz he failed his piss test 9 times in a row. How this doctor is still in business is beyond me.

It's the weekend of exams. I've got a cold. Am I crazy to quit now? I think I'd be crazy not to at this point. I'm just shutting down my mind for a few days, and then I will come back Tuesday, and say Hey the clouds have lifted, it's all over, now just worry about the mental crap, the worst is through. That's my plan, and I'm sticking to it.


[font=Comic Sans MS]Umm, did I read that right? 80mg??? I'm hoping that you accidentally added a "0" behind the "8"....but I don't think that you did. I have the same question you do..How is this doctor still in business???

Anyway, I hope that you make it through this weekend unscathed. Good for you for giving your subs to someone you trust! I know that must have been hard. I am proud of you though. I can't imagine how hard this has been for you. I am here for you though. If you end up taking sub, please don't look at it as a failure. I think that maybe that is what is causing all the anxiety about quitting for you. It would be so easy to just use, but you chose sub instead. Amber and Romeo are right, in saying that that doesn't make you a failure!

Just take it one hour at a time. Keep your brain busy. Maybe you can look around the internet for some stupid funny videos like Amber apparently does. Her videos crack me up!!! The one with the reporter walking right into a pole?? Priceless! LOL!
Anyway~Keep up the good work, and keep on trying. Do not let yourself get discouraged, ok? Take care and let us know how you make out this weekend![/font]

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:50 am 
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Yes you read it right. He gets 10 8mg strips a day. He got in a car accident and did OC's for 10 years then got a new doc that told him to get on subs for pain. But it doesn't make sense, I thought pain patients got much less than that for pain.

Thanks yes it was big for me to give up the subs. I thought I would never ever have to do that. But it seemed like a good idea. I would never have thought of it if people on here did not say they did it. My cold is terrible, my glands are hard as stones, but I think it's really weird... it's like the cold makes me tired so I get to sleep all day! I mean yeah it could get worse but I think the worst is here and it will stay like this for a few days and then boom it will be over with, no biggee. Well of course then its the mental stuff. I do NOT want to go back to the subs! They weigh my brain down. I must must must remember that.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Hey IM,

Wow, you gave your friend your remaining Sub's......you're Bad Ass dude!!!

I can't think of too much else to say to you right now, you sound like you know what to expect and you know you have to be strong, I just wanted you to know that we're rootin' for ya!!

Hang tough!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Thanks for the encouragement! It is easy this time. I hope it doesn't get worse. I don't think it will. Mentally I feel the same. It's approaching 72 hours. I guess the mental stuff should start soon. Maybe I was on such a small dose it won't be a big deal. I mean yeah the bathroom stuff and the waking up every hour to kick has started but that is nothing like having your head in a bucket for 5 hours straight with every bone in your body feeling like knives are piercing through it. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:41 pm 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Awww man, just try to hang in there girl! You CAN do this! YOU CAN do this! I believe in you! You just have to believe in you! Just think, do you really wanna go through feeling like this again??? Hell no you don't! So get it over with, and hold your head high, because you are (like Romeo Says) A ROCKSTAR!!! 8) I cannot handle that crap at all!!! LOL! I'm a wuss! But I know that you aren't. You are one tough cookie (like the one the mouse had)! (yes, i got your "if you give a mouse a cookie" reference) LOL

Don't let your innerhessler slow you down either!!!!! Keep up the good work![/font]

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:43 pm 
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oh my gosh Kelly I have not laughed out loud like that at the computer in a long time!! I was even thinking about you earlier too because I was watching Friends and Monica came on and I thought hahaaa I see Monica in a whole new light now... and I thought of you, and it made me keep chuggin' you know? Aa I dunno if I'm still sick from the cold or what, I sneeze a lot, but still tired. But my heart has been racing for 2 days. It must be the "revved up" feeling I hear about that I guess that's why people get clonodine. Anyways... got to go take a stupid quiz about microprocessors and RAM and stuff for school... (thankfully online)... I'll post anything if I lose my head I know you all have a lot of good things to say :) I guess that's what keeps me going really, knowing that after like 2 weeks or something things start looking better than ever.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:08 pm 
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hey IM

what are you studying? Is that your Cisco IT essentials exam? Or CompTIA?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:56 pm 
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lol i don't even know what those are it's nothing fancy like that! After learning just the basics of how a computer works I feel for anyone that has to actually study computers. Talk about a lot of technical memorization. But that's why they get paid the big bucks!

Well.. it's day 4. I messed up on day 4 last time. But I am prepared today and will be fine. Last night totally sucked because of the whole like restless body thing and not being able to sleep but I took valerian root and was out like a light. Today I'm slow as a turtle but I plan on still going to work. My cold is still in the cough stage but it's not bad enough to not feel guilty to call in sick. Guess I'll bust out the l-tyrosine before I go in. And guess what -- the heart racing thing has already gotten a little better. Now I'm not going to say my honeymoon has started or nothin but I'm just glad it didn't get any worse. I took a walk today outside and the trees are already changing color and it was surreal but I know that's just me bein all proud I didn't mess up. I realize the mental crap will probably start tonight... but I'm planning on not losing my head over this. Ahhh I was on such a small dose I'm not going to stress over it. I was doin .75 a day for three days before I quit but before that it was only .5. I mean it aint no crumb but still that's really small.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:41 pm 
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for all you taperers out there..

Just lettin you all know that at 96 hours, jumping somewhere between .75 and .5, it appears that the physical crap is over. The worst feeling was that feeling that.. I dunno... I just can't describe it other than opiate withdraw. It's not like being sick, a cold, the flu, nothing. It's just plain your nerves are wanting to not move but also not sit still. Well that appears to have vanished now. I went to work here on day 4 and I even still have a cold coughin up crap and I got more accomplished in one hour than I have accomplished in an entire day in a long time. I don't know what it is, maybe I just really built myself up mentally for success. Also, I walked into work today, and just like when I went into work on day 4 of no subs the last time, I felt weird, like I was in an unfamiliar place, that I couldn't concentrate, and you know what? It went away in like an hour or two and I feel back to normal, stable, confident with everyone. No one could tell through this whole thing. And let me tell you something, I'm not old, I'm not tough, if you saw me you'd think I was 12 or something. If I can jump at somewhere no less than .5 mg a day seriously any of you can. And I've done it twice now in a month. Now I realize it could randomly get worse tomorrow but as far as the physical stuff... the L-Tyrosine for energy and the valerian root for sleeping and cutting all caffeine made everything totally fine.

So... bathroom issues=nonexistant (taking medicine)
appetite=kickin
energy=normal level
RLS=nonexistant
insomnia=not a problem w/ valerian
moral=optimistic, content


And the best thing is, I've seen all these coincidences today, I could go on and on but they're mostly inside personal jokes, it's that feeling that you're not alone, that the world is lined up perfectly for success, and I used to think like this every day. You know, when you're thinking of a song, and you turn the radio on, and it happens to be playing even though it's not a popular or recent one. Or you're thinking about someone, and then they just so happen to ride by your house on a bike when they never ride by you because you live in the middle of no where. I mean... I used to notice that stuff all the time and believe in God and when I started using opiates I honestly did not believe in God anymore. Well I do now. I can feel it. I did not feel him in a long time. And let me tell you that's enough to want to quit using.

But of course, I must update or move to a new thread or something because can you really trust someone on only day 4? Maybe I will be a little more credible on like day 20 or something so I will have to get back to you on that.

If there is one thing you all can take from this... it is, just tell yourself, everything will be fine in just a few days. And knowing that will make all the difference.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:42 pm 
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IM = COMPLETELY BAD ASS!!!! (even if you do look 12. LOL)

Rock On!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:45 am 
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This is inspiring, invisible, good for you. Your post reminds me that I CAN do it, that it doesn't last forever, and it's not the end of the world. A lot of the horror stories i read about getting off Sub are way overblown IMO. Keep up the good work, and keep posting.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:28 am 
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Why thank u sir Romeo!

Lillyval thats great that u r getting something out of my postings! God's on your side he works in mysterious ways thats why the doc called in your script *accidentally*, just have faith, I prayed myself to sleep every night, and you're going to love your sunday school class even more!

Well I've been up since 3:30am I had 5.5 hours of sleep (i hope this is only temporary but yeah i realize it could last for a month or 2 but u see I've been sleeping 12 hours a day from this cold so who knows maybe I'll be back to normal soon) and I'm cUcKoO!!! My sense of humor is back, yeah ok I realize this could be my *honeymoon* but u kno me n the misses gonna get all the dang ol' contintental breakfast we can while we're here!!! I can speed read again, I just worked and worked and worked all morning, if I wasn't completely congested in the sinuses and chest I would be doing pushups I have all of this strength and vigor, I even made that new lil avatar u see it??? heheheeheeeee yeahhhh I'm in my lil swing effect, I could spiral into deep depression any moment, but u know there ain't no point in dwelling on it. There ain't no Ups without the Downs - life would just be boring, static.

Boomshakalaka!!!! lol :twisted: :twisted: hehehehehe u stupid little sub I got yo' ass on this one! *please don't shoot me tomorrow*


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:10 pm 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hey IM!!! You sound positively positive!!! LOL! I hope that this feeling hang s around for a while. Or at least
comes to visit often! You are all chipper and happy, and that is so contagious. I realized half way through
your post that I was smiling from ear to ear. I'm doing it now...LOL :D

I was really happy to read that you pray like you do. I pray A LOT. I know that I would not be as happy or peaceful
as I am with myself, and my life, and the people and things in it, if I didn't.

Keep on doing whatever it is that you are doing that is making you so happy...unless it's illegal! Cuz you sound great!!!!!!
I love checking in on some people here. Lately the first thing that I do is check on you and Ladder to see how you
all are making it~and you both seem to be seeing better days lately...and that's great!

Ok, we'll talk to you soon, and hey, Try not to pull a Monica today! LOL! :lol: [/font]

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:26 pm 
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PLANKTON!!!! Stop trying to steal Mr. Crabs secret formula!! :lol:

I had to LOL on you falling asleep during praying. A while back, I had mentioned that I do the same thing and another member came on and said, "maybe God gets tired of listening to yer bitchin' and complainin' and just knocks you out so He can get some peace and quiet!" I thought that was the funniest thing ever!!

About the push-ups, I remember that incredible feeling of strength too. I used to say it felt like I could bench press a skyscraper!!

You're Kicking Ass and taking names, keep it up!!!

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