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 Post subject: Day 4 off Subutex!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:28 pm 
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I have been using opiates for the 8 months solid. It started with extremely high doses of methadone and turned into heroin. I got subutex to quit and finally jumped off. I would take as little subutex as i could for the last couple months. Im talking even .5mg a day. I ended up jumping off at around 3mg for 5 days straight.

"comfort drugs" i used: Clonodine, Xanax, THC

Day 1) Nothing. Wondering whats in store for me. The anxiety of whats to come has taken full force. I slept normal that night.

Day 2) "The 4th of July" It starts. I am very irritiable. I drag around the house all day with very little energy. As soon as the sun goes down i get very anxious. I am sitting on top of the car under the stars with my girlfriend at the fireworks and feel like i just want it to end so i can go home. It was a romantic setting but i truely did not want her to even touch me. I kept jumping off the car and pacing. I get home and smoke some THC and take .5mg Clonodine with .5mg Xanax. Very surprisingly, I slept the night entirely through.

Day 3) I wake up feeling the withdrawals full fledge. I immediately smoke some THC. Although the symptoms are not a walk in the park it seems that the fear of withdrawal was actually worse than the w/d itself. I take .5mg xanax and .5mg clonodine and force myself to go for a bike ride. I go for semi long walks and enjoy the arizona sunlight. I wonder how much longer this is going to last. At night i take a quarter of a 1mg xanax and a half of .1mg clonodine. I have a hard time falling asleep at first but it didnt last long. Again, Strangely enough I slept the entire night through.

Day 4) I wake up and feel almost completely better. How could this be? I almost think its over. I dont feel 100% by any means but it sorta feels that way compared to the past couple days. I have to fly to Al Paso, TX today and then drive to New Mexico for an overnight job and fly back tomorrow. I was extremely worried about this because of the withdrawal but by the grace of God i woke up feeling like i can handle it.

I will let you guys know how the next couple days are. I just can't emphasize enough that the key to stopping is WANTING TO. I promise if you be smart, taper your dose and have the desire to quit it wont be that bad. Like i said earlier, the fear of withdrawal is worse than the withdrawal itself.

I had an experience a few years back coming off of subutex c/t after a year on 24mg a day. Hmm i wonder why this time didnt seem so bad?

Good Luck to everyone who is thinking about quitting or actually in the process of it. I use to read these posts when i was about to get off and it really made me feel better. If you can do it i can do it, Seriously.

Oh and the best part is I did it with a 3mg subutex in my room the entire time. I would almost recommend doing this instead of waiting till ur done with ur script. This way you can know if you really want to quit. But for others it might not be the way to go.


~Christopher MESA,AZ

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:38 pm 
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Thanks for the report. I'm trying to decide whether to stop. I've only been on it for a 14 day detox from oxy's. I don't expect it to be too bad if I do.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:22 am 
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If you feel like you are in threat of a relapse i would recommend extending your bupe treatment. If you really just want out then by all means taper down to at least .5 and jump off.

I am on day 5. I seriously dont feel anything at all except for a slight stomach cramping after i eat. (maybe some immodium AD can help this)

I was expecting these withdrawals to be horrific for how long i was on but in all truth they werent that bad. You can definitely do it if you want to.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Most people probably know my thoughts-- it favors the profits of docs to have people use buprenorphine short-term, as the cap keeps me from taking new people until someone leaves-- and the people who have been on buprenorphine the longest are seen the least often. I say that because as soon as I suggest people stay on buprenorphine, somebody says something about 'greedy doctors wanting to keep people captive,' and that just is not the case. At least in Wisconsin, there are far more people calling for help than doctors with open spots.

A recent study (and several older ones) showed that the relapse rate for short-term buprenorphine maintenance is very high-- almost 100%. I'm not trying to jinx anyone-- if anything, use my comments to increase your motivation, so you can write to me in a year and tell me you are doing well. I certainly understand the desire to be free of ALL opiates. I just strongly suggest that people going off buprenorphine have a good safety plan. I have seen some disasters; when a person relapses, he/she changes personality for some period of time-- something that is not foreseen before going off buprenorphine. The person will try to fix things on his own for some period of time, too embarrassed or ashamed to go back and ask for help. Remember that relapses are usually more intense than the prior use; the denial is often worse as well. A person will plan ahead of time to simply go back on buprenorphine if they relapse, but then when they relapse they have no interest in buprenorphine that time around, for reasons I do not understand.

The other thing to consider is that studies have shown a reduction of depressive symptoms in some people on buprenorphine. Whether those people have an endogenous opioid deficiency treated by buprenorphine is not known. I suspect that the depression in some people is due to cravings that manifest as depression; buprenorphine relieves the cravings and the depression caused by the cravings.

I suggest that before stopping buprenorphine there are a few minimum things that should be in place. First, the person should be able to take buprenorphine once per day without 'cheating;' if the person can't take buprenorphine in a controlled fashion there will be little success without it. Second, access to opiates should be low or absent. No using friends; no people in the home with narcotic prescriptions, etc. Third, the major stresses should be ironed out-- the person is employed, relationships are stable, etc. Finally the person should not have a pain disorder, as the forces of self-pity during real pain, combined with cravings and withdrawal, are simply too high to overcome.

I also strongly recommend an attitude of 'powerlessness', i.e. the understanding that if I use, I'm F$%#ed. That attitude generates fear, and fear is what protects you from relapse.

Just my thoughts and opinions. I certainly wish anybody stopping buprenorphine-- or staying on buprenorphine-- the best.

JJ


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:25 am 
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I think that last post was for me. Thanks for the reply suboxdoc. I think I will stay on Subs for awhile based partly on your last post. I don't feel like I'm ready for complete abstinence. I we just worried that the withdrawal was going to be horrible if I don't stop now, but after reading many posts, I'm starting to think it won't be all that bad. I also was concerned that I would have some of the same nasty symptoms I had while on the Oxy's like constipation and lack of libido. So far, it's been exactly the opposite :) My libido is thru the roof, and no constipation at all. Is that going to change after being on suboxone for awhile?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:57 pm 
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suboxdoc wrote:
Most people probably know my thoughts-- it favors the profits of docs to have people use buprenorphine short-term, as the cap keeps me from taking new people until someone leaves-- and the people who have been on buprenorphine the longest are seen the least often. I say that because as soon as I suggest people stay on buprenorphine, somebody says something about 'greedy doctors wanting to keep people captive,' and that just is not the case. At least in Wisconsin, there are far more people calling for help than doctors with open spots.

A recent study (and several older ones) showed that the relapse rate for short-term buprenorphine maintenance is very high-- almost 100%. I'm not trying to jinx anyone-- if anything, use my comments to increase your motivation, so you can write to me in a year and tell me you are doing well. I certainly understand the desire to be free of ALL opiates. I just strongly suggest that people going off buprenorphine have a good safety plan. I have seen some disasters; when a person relapses, he/she changes personality for some period of time-- something that is not foreseen before going off buprenorphine. The person will try to fix things on his own for some period of time, too embarrassed or ashamed to go back and ask for help. Remember that relapses are usually more intense than the prior use; the denial is often worse as well. A person will plan ahead of time to simply go back on buprenorphine if they relapse, but then when they relapse they have no interest in buprenorphine that time around, for reasons I do not understand.

The other thing to consider is that studies have shown a reduction of depressive symptoms in some people on buprenorphine. Whether those people have an endogenous opioid deficiency treated by buprenorphine is not known. I suspect that the depression in some people is due to cravings that manifest as depression; buprenorphine relieves the cravings and the depression caused by the cravings.

I suggest that before stopping buprenorphine there are a few minimum things that should be in place. First, the person should be able to take buprenorphine once per day without 'cheating;' if the person can't take buprenorphine in a controlled fashion there will be little success without it. Second, access to opiates should be low or absent. No using friends; no people in the home with narcotic prescriptions, etc. Third, the major stresses should be ironed out-- the person is employed, relationships are stable, etc. Finally the person should not have a pain disorder, as the forces of self-pity during real pain, combined with cravings and withdrawal, are simply too high to overcome.

I also strongly recommend an attitude of 'powerlessness', i.e. the understanding that if I use, I'm F$%#ed. That attitude generates fear, and fear is what protects you from relapse.

Just my thoughts and opinions. I certainly wish anybody stopping buprenorphine-- or staying on buprenorphine-- the best.

JJ


Thanks for this response. It gives me a tremendous amount of motivation. Interesting your in Wisconsin, I am too. Waukesha County, Although.

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