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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Hi people, well is coming up to 2 months since jumped off 3 years on subs, a result of a relativity short 1 year but intense intro to heroin by my ex. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents as when I was going through the initial anxiety hell of withdrawals this forum was a lifesaver, thanks guys :) so didnt feel like had to go through this nightmare totally alone.

I jumped of 4mg daily which was probably 2 high a dose, just found it very hard to taper, kept going up and down between 2 4 8 mg depending on how I was feeling, had a private doc who handed subs out like candy (and pocketed the cash, like his sideline business, just like a drug dealer) I also slipped up a few times on the low doses so just went back to 8mg to be safe but in retrospect I would not jump off that high a dose, even to get down to 1mg with some comfort, re the experience, to be honest I felt like had the worst flu for a month, + sneezing, diarrhea, swollen tonsils, and through in a shitload of anxiety, basically bed ridden for 2 weeks as didnt have the energy to do anything, just something simple like vacuming felt like climbing mount Everest.

I did luckily go to docs and get xanax, and blood pressure lowering tablets, and unless you think you will have issues re addiction and xanax, I would recommend doing this, as I didnt get all the 'spiders' crawling over me like some people report, it wasnt like coming off Heroin.

Any way the good and bad, at 50 days, still having issues, eg very bad insomnia, tense, still wake up with anxiety every day, and my stomach is not doing well, eg still have the runs. mentally doing better, am on anti-depressents, trying to get the serotonin going again, has been 3 weeks and do feel my mood stabilizing, so this may be a good idea for you guys 2?

I did get a gym membership, and went a few times last week, this is very hard work, mentally your body is just exhasted from the anxiety but I did feel this is important part of recovery, doing weights just makes you feel better in general about yourself.

I have lost a lot of motivation for life in general, work, and lack of sleep am in daze most days, but the good thing to come out of this is:

50 days of basically feeling like crap has made me hate opiates and what they have done 2 me, I think if this process was easy then the though of relapsing back to H would be a lot stronger, or the "just one time" thought that is always there would be harder to fight, but this much pain and stress is a huge wakeup call its just not worth it, I couldnt go through this again, every again.

So as much as PAWS is hard, it a reminder to be STRONG and take this as a needed reminder why not to relapse, go through the hard bits and you will come out the other side a better person, not being controlled by some expensive chemical that just zombies you out., and the good thing is that I do have days now that I can feel normal again, lifes 2 short 2 be under the control of a chemical which yes, is a lifesaver, if your a user, but long term just sucks your soul out.

Also a added bonus is my sex drive is coming back after dissapearing for 3 years, yay, lol.

all the best guys.

PS, a quick Q, anybody between 50 - 100 days in paws, when will I be able to sleep more then 4 hours in a row again?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Hey Mike,

Congratulations on 50 days off of Suboxone, way to go!!

All the symptoms you listed sound right on par for opiate/Suboxone wd....especially seeing as you jumped off a decently high dose.

Good job getting a gym membership!! Getting your body back into shape will help get your brain back into shape. I understand how working out can be completely draining to you, maybe dial your routine back just a bit. Right now, you're just trying to kick start your endorphins, not look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. If I were you, at this point in your recovery, I'd be doing more kinds of cardio or endurance work outs than heavy lift work outs.

As far as the sleep.....*sigh*, that's usually one of the last things to return to normal. I know it's hard to function any near 100% while you're not sleeping right, but you gotta have faith that it'll get better, cuz it will. I don't mean to scare the pants off you, but I was almost a year before I slept 8 or 9 hours straight through the night. Around 50 days off of Suboxone, I was probably somewhere around where you're at, I could sleep for a few hours, but then I'd wake up and have a hard time getting back to sleep. It steadily improved as the weeks went by, but it did take a long time. A lot of folks on the forum who kicked Suboxone to the curb swear by Melatonin for sleep. I never used it, but I know many who have and the majority claim it works really good. You might want to give it a shot?

Hang on tight Bud, you've got a little ways to go and once you're there you'll be all :D !!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:29 pm 
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hey there. I just wanted to try to help by saying that my sleep returned to almost completely normal by the third month or so. So don't get too discouraged, everyone adjusts differently I think. I did jump at a lower dose than you, but, I feel my sleep was one of the first things to improve.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:57 pm 
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Eric, I'm so glad you jumped in and let the original poster know that your sleep was one of the first things to improve. That's part of what makes this forum so cool, the ability to express different views!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:23 pm 
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I'd also add that for me melatonin works very well. If youre aching to get an extra hour or two of sleep, I think melatonin will give you that benefit. And I never really had many side effects from it that I can remember, other than on rare occasions having a slight stomach ache perhaps. It can give you some weird dreams though. With short term use, my guess is its safe. With long term use they are starting to think there may be some hormonal side effects, but I dont think it's been proven yet.

L-Tryptophan is also good for sleep. I have to take it on an empty stomach for it to work best, and I think you have to have adequate vitamin B6 levels for it to work properly (you can research that). Tryptophan gives you a mood boost AND helps you sleep. Again, not certain of side effects and stuff, but I took it for a while and didnt notice any negative side effects.

Both melatonin and tryptophan are found in food, so you could research which foods are high in them and see if that helps, or just buy the supplement. For instance, tart cherries are said to be high in melatonin, and turkey (if i remember correctly) is high in tryptophan.


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 Post subject: re sleep issues
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:13 pm 
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thanks for the advice guys very interesting, I will look at melatonin as a option for sure thanks, and romeo I give you much respect for how much you are giving back on this forum and helping people get through this :)

yes lack of sleep is the absolute worst part of paws now, its weird as insomnia didnt actually start until day 40 or so, before that I sleep okay, I was using xanax / valium to get over the worst f the withdrawals, but stopped that day 35so that is weird, but I can only put it down to paws...

I did go to docs yesterday and he put me on tamaze, which he garenteed would knock me out, but I took 7 last night and still didnt sleep more then and hour, what the #$%@^ !

so now am totally desperate to get even 1 nights sleep, I was thinking of trying to get back on Valium or zanax, as I seemed to sleep on these, has anybody else tried this to sleep, eg the doc wouldn't prescribe me any more yesterday for some reason, I think he was worded about the addictive nature of benzos but after subs valium is not a big deal.

anyway here goes another day of tired no energy restlessness, I honestly wish somebody had told me about the long term damage that soboxone does, I wonder if it would have been better to just use subutex which doesnt have naltrexone?

anyway like i said initially just have to be positive and think of all this as paying my dues for the stupidity of using in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:09 am 
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As far as sleep goes, I watched a segment on the Dr. Oz show and he suggested "Wild lettuce extract" sometimes called Lettuce Opium...It aids int the relaese of the neurotransmitter Seratonin. Google it. I am pretty certain it will help with your sleep. Also take Magnesium about 30 minutes before bed. I understand that if taken regularily it aids in calming the nerves and relaxing the muscles. Good luck


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:44 am 
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Congrats Mike ... You're doing really well. Always great to hear a high jumper make it through the gauntlet run.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:29 pm 
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I agree with the insomnia being the worst. I can't handle it to the point i go to bed early cause i know its coming. I'm at day 40 from Rapid, and i've been on several different drugs to sleep which i kept switching. I stopped taking the benzo and ambien lunesta type drugs 3 days ago because i heard they all affect the same brain chemical GABA. And from what i read the withdrawal from all that stuff is way worse than opiate withdrawal. Scared the heck outta me.

Granted i didn't take about half of any pill a day, but suboxone half a pill is a high dose. i'm guessing the best way to go about sleep is natural stuff and if you have too once a week, the day you really need it, take something so you keep your sanity. Or get Mike Tyson to come over and K.O. you before bed every night.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Wow that is a great way of thinking mike40, I like how you say you just want yourself back cuz the dope sucks your soul out. It's always motivating to feel good about the future and that you won't go back. I will say for sleep that Valerian Root can help, you can get it at Wal-Mart in the vitamins section. But... considering the heavy stuff did not work for you... I don't know how it will do. I used to take melatonin and I believe the Valerian works better than melatonin. For me, if I get up in the middle of the night, the valerian helps me get right back to sleep (during withdraws). Also, melatonin gave me nightmares for the first few nights, and Valerian did not. Valerian gave me really good dreams. I don't know if it's OK to, but I used to take melatonin and valerian root together to get to sleep. I recommend it. If I can handle it you definetly can. So go buy both, they are both in the vitamin section and both under 10 bucks (or should be).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:11 pm 
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^^^Valerian is awesome for both insomnia and anxiety, but good lord it is the STANK. It smells like gym socks or something.

Congrats on 50 days, that is awesome! One note about the anxiety and insomnia - check your caffeine intake. I think our systems are really sensitive during detox, etc, and even minimal caffeine intake can increase anxiety and insomnia.

Hope things continue to get better for you!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:37 pm 
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I like valerian too. Get standardized valerian. Kava works ok too. I also like melatonin. Sometimes I take all 3. Watch your liver with kava though.

@doq what it smells like is cat pee. If I take some valerian caps and don't wash my hands, my cats go crazy.

Gb


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