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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:03 am 
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I'm glad you are feeling better. Don't be surprised if it comes and goes a bit. The immodium probably helps because you are able to actually absorb some of the nutrients you are ingesting and you are probably more hydrated now. That is also probably helping with the anxiety and the blood pressure issues and then the sleep issues as well. Dehydration and lack of sleep I swear with both kill you or make you wish you were dead. Hang in there and even though you feel better, post every so often. You never know when someone else will come along that is in your shoes and they will need to read your story to feel better or get an idea of how long it will last. You will help others by continuing to comment on how you are doing. Hawker just came back and posted he has 8 months off sub and is doing great. Very uplifting.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Day 19 - I feel pretty great as of right now and the last few days and I am starting to feel good in the morning the same way I would feel when I would dose to wake up. Night time no longer lasts what seems like forever and my energy levels are getting very close to normal. Bathroom problems FINALLY stopped around the same time that my sleep got back to something manageable which was about 3 days ago. The only thing really bothering me now is joint and muscle aches but to be completely honest, that's life and I always had issues around that but I know the current natural pain management will get better. Christmas was probably the best I have ever had, got a new bed from my GF which is heaven to sleep on and an acoustic guitar from my parents, I have been doing nothing but jamming out the last couple days when I have time. I haven't gotten around to updating because I have been very busy, out of town and just things like that. The last few days when my aches would happen I wouldn't think of "Oh, WD's are here, I wish I could take something." instead I forgot I was even probably feeling WD's. I was so used to taking something instantly if I felt pain or getting anxiety thinking that it's all because I HAVEN'T taken anything. When I am tired, I think of sleep, not pill and when I am feeling down I think of way's to cheer up, not pill.

Someone has been posting pretty negative stuff recently about subs but I would never change the path I have taken to sobriety, and depending on ones definition of what sobriety is, being on Suboxone is sobriety in my opinion. I will also take back my statements of "feeling" more emotion off Suboxone because the heightened emotion was due to lack of sleep, pain, and general wear and tear on my body that was trying to recover. I don't cry at everything anymore, and I am more or less back to the me before full agonist Opiates.

Happy new years and belated Christmas everyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Inneed, you can't begin to know how happy I am for you! Your determination & courage floor me. All of the things we really have to read. Not negative stuff that others try to impose on us.

You keep it up, you hear? Don't let anything deter you. Stay on the golden path.

I admire your stance on "Not pill". Doing things naturally has been something that a lot of us have not done for so long. It's a whole new life. Eeven on Subs, there are so many things I'm feeling. I'm not numb anymore. And yes, I cry easily but that is good. It shows I can feel again.

Keep telling us about how you are doing. We all need to know what to expect.

Love, queenie


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:04 pm 
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What a victory!! Only other Sub takers can truly comprehend what it means to have gotten entirely off of Suboxone AND to be functioning. I am not joking when I say that there should be certificates given out to people who get off of Sub when there are still no very low formulations and (with a few exceptions) no way off that doesn't involve some serious hell. I feel like you should be getting a trophy or taking off for a free trip to Hawaii!

People like you make me feel like I CAN get off of Suboxone. I'm sure you can remember not that long ago when you were probably weighed down by all the negative stuff posted online and very unsure about whether you could ever make it off Sub and feel decent again. Now, you're the example to the rest of us. I cannot believe that you did this without Clonidine. That's so nuts. How funny that it just came in the mail :lol:

You make me question the worth of all this tapering business. I mean, tapering takes a loooooonnnnngggg time and you quit c/t and already you are feeling so much better. Hmmmmm......That's a tough one.

The part about being tired and not thinking of a pill and all that. What a cool thing to be able to say!!

I hope one day to be in your shoes, but for now I'll just follow in your footsteps.

Please DO stick around.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:48 pm 
Yeah I think long tapers pretty useless but thats just my opinion. Anytime I tried to clean up while in active using (only twice did I make it through most of the detox but I started using as soon as I was better) I did a short taper over like a week and then just jumped off of it and would go CT for a few days or as long as I could stand it and then take the tiniest amount to be able to sleep and I would do that until the amount was so tiny that it was pretty much taking nothing anymore. Tapering is useful and neccessary but for me a quick taper works better for me, I hate the feeling of being in shitty withdrawal even when im still taking an opiate everday during a long taper. Super long tapers are so depressing to me because you only feel a tiny bit better from the tiny dose you are taking towards than end than you would just cold turkey. This is all just my opinion so anyone who plans on tapering for a long time dont let what I said discourage you, that is just the way I choose to handle it. Im so grateful to subox but Im not gonna lie sometimes when Im up late at night all alone I start to get this anxiety creeping into the back of my mind about "Im still dependant and if I ever stop this medication Im going to go through a couple months of hell" but I try not to think about it. A couple months of being miserable is just a drop in the bucket for being able to turn my life around.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:38 pm 
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inneed,

That's an awesome post. You've managed to change your thinking in a huge way, good for you. Not craving the 'pill' anymore is such great news.

I'm very, very happy for you!!

Not to be a downer, but your going to have to stay on your toes as far as addiction goes. Be vigilant, OK.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:02 am 
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Ahh, thank you all, what a boost! It's funny, I have been busy but even that doesn't lift my spirits like posting here and then getting responses. Oh how I wish I could get the hell out of town, my GF has been bugging me about going to Disney Land forever now, I really want to go but a vacation now, right when I am trying to get full-time work and school going would be really hard. Oh well, we'll figure something out one way or another, her cabin is closer to home, (about 4 hours away) and her family goes up with us often, maybe I need some of that. I think the main reason for my down in the dumps feeling is this damn rain, non stop for more than a week, it's like as soon as the sun hypothetically comes out in my life, it literally goes away... :roll: I guess the plus side to the never ending bad weather is that it means more fallen trees and more work coming my way, Lord knowing, I need that too.

A certificate would definitely be great :lol: it would serve as a good reminder to stay sober because you definitely don't get any trophies from synthetic dope. Laddertipper, I really believe when you'r time comes you'll do alright, you seem to have a very good support system in place already and thats HUGE! Not only that but with some support med's you can do it for sure, no doubt in my mind. Don't let a previous attempt psych you out, that was then and this is now. You'r life is probably a whole lot different, even in ways you may not even know. When the time comes, I will be here for you like everyone else will be, you just let us know and whatever possible will be done!

Romeo; you've been a huge support for me as well as many others, I have stated it many times but this path would have been much much harder without you all. I just looked back, with my GF, at my initial post that I wrote on the worst day at like 2:00 A.M. and it's crazy trying to remember the fear I had, even now it makes me emotional because I was falling apart and thats why me and my girlfriend have decided that I am not the one who deserves a trophy, you all are.

One last thing must be said tonight...

Hello everyone, this is Inneed's girlfriend and I just wanted to say thank you as well. I had no idea what he was going threw, and for that matter what any of you go threw on sometimes a daily basis. Watching someone that I think of as a real life Superman go threw this process has really brought meaning to addiction for me. This is no marijuana, cigarette or coffee addiction, it is in a class of it's own for sure. I am ashamed of my ignorance, and the ignorance of society today, it's really a shame how taboo the subject of addiction is, there are so many people of all walks of life struggling of the same demon that is Opiate addiction. I am very proud of my superman for leaving this behind him and pushing forward and in turn I am very grateful for this community, and like he said you deserve a commendation.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:35 am 
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Inneed, incredible job man! I haven't really posted but I have been reading and you have certainly helped me through my process. You give me hope each and every day that things will get better and maybe not in the long time frame i had expected. Yes, it will be a long process but things like sleep and anxiety seemed to have returned to a more normal level at only a few weeks out. That is so great to hear.

I am so happy that you have a supportive girl. Speaking from the same side of things, without my wife, I would have given up within the first week.

What you said about the everyone else needing the trophy. So TRUE!!!! Without the support here and at home, few of us would be able to push through the hard times. For two days straight, all I did was cry. If i did not have a place to vent and a wife to lean on, who knows where I would be right now. Those crying days, looking back were just silly but I was sooooo emotional about everything. Now I've leveled off and thanks to all here, we were both given the strength to push forward.

Kudos to you bro. Keep up the great work. Good luck getting school going. That is a great thing and will only better your life in the long run.

Cheers to clear heads and happy times!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:41 am 
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inneed, aka Superman

I've already got my trophy, man. It's my wife and daughter! Without them, I would not have been able to complete the process of quitting sub.

I also have some awesome friends I've made on this forum who help keep me pointed in the right direction, for a lifelong drug abuser like me, it's important to me.

You sound like you have a wonderful girlfriend, good for you...you deserve it. You better make sure you give her a big ole hug!! She deserves it too!

Hey, I watch this program on Discovery? called Heli-Loggers...are you Cleaver? :D Nah, your probably Robin....any idea what I'm talking about? :D


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:21 am 
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I am so glad to hear how well you are doing. I think this is just awesome and I am glad you had a nice holiday. I wasn't so sure if you would but maybe that was the little break you needed and distraction to get through the tail end of this. I do hope you will take some time to swing by now and again and let us know how you are doing. We need to keep hearing from people who have quit. In fact....I think eventually they should move this thread to the bupe in the rearview mirror thread. Then each time you come back, go right to this thread and give your update. Then others who are in need of help can get your whole story in one thread.

I am really proud of you. I know this wasn't easy by any means and you really have done great.

For your girlfriend..........I think it's great you have hung in there with him through this. For all of us addicts the support of our partner is extremely important. My piece of advice is that you recognize addiction isn't over when the suboxone is gone necessarily. There will likely be urges here and there, moments of weakness, thoughts that come and go off and on. The longer someone is away from it the mind can play tricks and make you think you can party just this one night. It isn't his fault. There is nothing he can do about it. I hope that you both will create a relationship where he feels comfortable going to you with some of those feelings or emotions, or maybe even a mistake, without being judged. The goal should always be to help him get back on track, not get angry for something that is a symptom of the disease that he can't control. Just be there for him and constantly work to ensure he knows he can talk to you about whatever is going on without being judged for it.

I'm not saying this because I think there is some problem in the relationship or you don't know this. Only because I think a LOT of people don't know this and the addict is almost always ashamed of the feelings or urges or thoughts and then they hide them or pretend they don't exist and they end up using. It's always a lot better if they have someone to tell.

Best wishes! Keep up the good work. Be careful please. Thanks for coming around.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Sorry I haven't been posting much lately, it's getting harder as I fall deeper in to a state of depression. Don't know why, I feel great otherwise and when I am with my GF and family but as soon as I am by myself I get extremely lonely and depressed which also causes me to loose interest in doing anything except smoke a cigarette every 5 minutes. I am still working out but it's no longer pushing me like it did threw the major WD's. I am guessing this is the beginning of PAWS but at the same time I really don't know, strangely enough I was happier during the end of week one than I am now. Why am I so damn negative, makes no sense and I don't even have a reason. When I think about why I am acting like this it bothers me even more because everything thats going on now should be making me the happiest guy around... This isn't my usual depression, I don't really know how to deal with it, or what to do to help it besides constantly being around loved ones. For some reason it feels like I don't have a purpose anymore? :?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:47 pm 
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Hey inneed,

Today is around day 22 or 23 for you I think. PAWS may certainly be part or most of your depression issues. As far as what to do about it, I don't have a great answer for that other than to say that recognizing that the depression probably has something to do with PAWS is a good start. I had to keep my mind busy, mostly at work. When I would get home I would find I would start to sink down and had to come up with ways to fight it.

I can relate on the constant smoking, for the first several weeks, it was the only thing that got me moving. Every 20 minutes or so I would get up off the couch, go outside, smoke a cigarette then back in the house waiting for another 20 minutes to go back outside for another cigarette.

My symptoms of depression got better with time, trying to keep my mind occupied helped me greatly.

Do you see a counselor? Mine helped me with my PAWS as well. Preferably someone with opiate experience if you have or can find one.

I know it's hard to post when you don't feel up to it mentally, but I think it'll help?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Well, first of all, your girlfriend is AWESOME! I love that she took the time to understand. I love that she sees you as Superman. I know it must not be easy for people who haven't been through this Suboxone experience to understand how much grit it truly takes to get all the way through this. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the time 'other' people in our lives just don't want to take the time to learn about all this. Your girlfriend obviously loves you and that comes through very clearly in her actions. I know that for me, my husband listening to what I've gone through and being concerned with where I am with my Sub and how I'm feeling makes all the difference. Before he was educated about Sub, he never understood my struggles and the symptoms just bothered him. Now, he also is more aware of how great my victories are too. As my dose gets lower and I feel bad and finally level off, he's so happy for me.

About your depression, of course some of it is probably PAWS. Do you think that some of it also is that you've lost your gigantic purpose and now you have to find a new one? You were all focused on getting off Sub and you had all this drive to do that. Now, you did it and........and what now? What happens now? People don't really ever talk about what will happen after the big part of the battle is over. You have to fill up that space with something else, and it's not easy to find what you want that something else to be. Of course, this is just my hypothesis, but after I achieve something big, something I've been working hard for and channeling my all into, I feel this overwhelming let down. I feel like I'm kinda floating and unfocused and it takes a while to get on track again.

Thanks for sharing what you're going through.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:56 am 
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Yea, I agree that it has a lot to do with staying occupied. I am waiting for the next college semester to start and still working on getting another job because the tree business is very up and down. Laddertipper, I think you'r hypothesis sounds very promising, now that I think of it that way it makes more sense. I ask myself "what now" and that overcomes the joy of everything I have already accomplished. I guess sitting in my room alone feels so bad because it's so similar to my life of drugs, except now I feel the emptiness. It's really nothing huge, my life is good but anything that resembles drug use gives me really bad anxiety. Even when I think of old times with my friends getting high, it makes me really uncomfortable and weird. I guess thats a good thing, I just need to learn how to deal with LIFE because we all know it's a mean prick. Counseling would be nice, and as soon as school starts they offer free counseling but other than that I am still waiting on a new health insurance to cover what I need which, like the Clonodine, will probably come when I don't need it anymore. :roll: Good night everyone, happy new year!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Day 25 - Not feeling too hot, I think I may have taken Immodium A-D for too long... I still have pretty bad bathroom issues and when I have to work I gotta take Immodium otherwise it will get bad out in the brush. :lol: Also, don't know if the Immodium is to blame but I have heart burn pretty bad all day, gotta take like 4 Tums (sp?) at a time for an hour of relief. I am staying away from the stuff indefinitely now because at week 3+ I am tired of having to go to the bathroom all the time.

Sleep is very good, no issues thankfully and the depression is still pretty awful but getting better daily. I have also had a pretty bad head-ache for the last 4-5 days, never had bad ones and this is the worst I have felt, I have good teeth but they hurt worse than ever when the head-ache takes full effect. Energy levels actually feel worse on week 3 than they were on week 2 but could be due to feeling down in the dumps lately.

Some more good news is that threw this whole experience I have finally gained some weight, about 10 lbs. so thats a huge plus for someone who has been pretty darn skinny his whole life. All-in-all when I feel good I'm GREAT but when I feel bad it sucks, I wake up in the morning feeling energized but soon after I have to stretch all the time and I feel tired physically. I am excited for the one month marker! I am looking further down he road for wellness because now instead of feeling better daily it's more like every couple of days. This is definitely feeling long and drawn out but it definitely wont be breaking me, I have read that many people find this harder than the first week but I find it much easier, a little more annoying because now instead of the feeling of just getting kicked by a horse it's like an annoying fly buzzing around my ears all day!

Happy 7 month's Romeo!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Just had to post something, I researched Immodium A-D a little and it's hard to find any evidence of it causing problems if used long-term but I have found bits and pieces of info on people using it for a little over a week to help with WD's and they complain that it caused some uncomfortable symptoms like returning bathroom problems and other WD similar stuff. It's the internet so who knows what the real case is, some sites say it's impossible to feel any effects of stopping Immodium instantly after prolonged use but people say the same about Suboxone and other related drugs which is obviously wrong. If anyone has some real insight to this let me know, it will ease my mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Hey inneed, thanks for the congrats...I appreciate it.

OK, I took Immodium during my initial wd too. I had read that there are opiate receptors lining your gut, in addition to the ones in your brain. Immodium is some kind of "synthetic opiate" (chemically very similar to Demerol) that does NOT cross the blood brain barrier...so you won't get addicted to it. But, can you become dependent on it...I'm not 100% positive of the answer to that one.

So, like you, I quit the Immodium after taking it for a couple few weeks because I was horrified at the thought of getting addicted/dependent on something else and of course, all hell broke loose down below. Loose, loose bowel movements.

I would imagine you'll laugh at this next part, it was kind of silly of me. I had been putting up with this 'issue' for months and months and months and then I finally spoke to another member who had quit sub and asked if they had the same problem. They said no and offered a few suggestions. Turns out, somewhere during my 13 years on opiates, I had developed a Lactose Intolerance. Yeah, I dealt with the 'crap' issue for over 6 months before I realized it wasn't due to PAWS. :? All I had to do was take a Lactaid pill with my meals that contain dairy and the problem went away immediately.

I really don't think this is your problem, but I had to throw it out there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Romeo - Thanks for the reply, at least I know it's not just me because if I take the Immodium I feel 100% normal except a little lack of energy, which was good and bad because that meant when ever I felt shitty I would think about taking some. I didn't take it the last 2 weeks straight, more like every other day or less but then also sometimes a couple days straight. Not only do I need to stop taking it for reasons of dependency physically but also mentally because last thing I need is the urge to take some diarrheal medicine daily. Damn, lactose issues huh? I am finally getting my health insurance this coming week so I am going to get a full blown check-up and what ever I need to do, if I am still having the same problem by then I will also ask them to check me out for that, (hopefully wont be having problems in a week.)

So whats the deal, does the deficiency or whatever go away eventually or is it for life? Anyway, I hope tomorrow is a little better because I work for the next 7 days straight. :shock: There is no bathroom's out there... Forgot to mention that my aches and joint pains are down to the regular I had before drug use.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:52 pm 
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I think that's a great idea for you to go get a full check up at your doctor's. Before I jumped off sub I went for a FULL physical....uh huh....prostate exam too. Anyway, everything checked out great and it gave me some confidence to go ahead and jump. In your case, I hope it gives you the confidence to go ahead and give yourself permission to feel better. Opiate wd is such a mind game!

As far as I know, Lactose Intolerance doesn't go away? I could switch over to soy milk and fake cheese and whatnot, but I decided to just take this pill with my meals....it was the easiest way to go and easy is usually right up my alley.

I'm glad your aches and pains have subsided. Once my body adjusted to life without suboxone, I was amazed to find that Advil actually works great for me.

Ummm, you're not taking any Immodium with you while your going to be in the forest for the next 7 days? Well, you better bring some toilet paper with you or get a whole bunch of big ole leaves ready!! You're going to be leaving "presents" all over the jungle! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Romeo- I'll be taking the Immodium but if I absolutely have to take it I will take the smallest amount possible because I would like to just get this over with. I have found that for my head aches and joint pains Aleve (sp?) really works better than even Ibuprofen for me, oddly enough, unless of course it's a prescription strength Ibuprofen. Not only that but like the commercial says, I take 2 Aleve and I'm pretty much fine all day. I remember thinking that stuff would never work on me again and it was a waste of time and money but it does work.

Day 26 - Getting close to a month without Suboxone 8) and it has actually gone faster than expected. For anyone reading about my current issues this late in the game don't let it discourage you, I am just posting how I feel and it may even have no connection to Suboxone, it could just be how I would feel normally and I was so used to no discomfort for a while. I'd say the worst was over at around the first week and sleep became better around week 2, also keep in mind I am working very little and I am not back in school yet so I am not as active as I would like to be and when I am, I feel better. I think if I had constant work from week one on I would sleep better and feel fine by now but who knows.

I am slowly finding things to occupy my mind besides working out and it's great, after the work trip I am going to go with my GF to a cabin with a bunch of GOOD friends I haven't talked to in a long time because of my issues. Finally I'll get the hell out of this room and town.


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