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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:35 pm 
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I'm sorry, BF, I misread your post, still not with it today. The word "easel" was in there but slipped by me. I think I'd embarrass myself if I tried to create an actual painting. I'm good at house painting/redecorating, but otherwise, artistically, I mostly only seem inclined toward music. The best I can draw is a stick man, and even those are pathetic, with squiggly lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:40 pm 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
I'm sorry, BF, I misread your post, still not with it today. The word "easel" was in there but slipped by me. I think I'd embarrass myself if I tried to create an actual painting. I'm good at house painting/redecorating, but otherwise, artistically, I mostly only seem inclined toward music. The best I can draw is a stick man, and even those are pathetic, with squiggly lines.

No body needs to see it but you! And it could just be "colors" as you "feel them" (think "modern art!). Who knows what you might create!

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Some expensive artwork looks like nothing more than splashes of paint on a canvas!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:15 pm 
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trainer14 wrote:
Some expensive artwork looks like nothing more than splashes of paint on a canvas!!!!!

you have been experimenting with that molly ehhhhhhh....


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:02 pm 
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hey well song time, find myself tyring to catch up, if I live up to Abraham Maslow view I fucked ehhh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOVzXYEU3Bk I loved ed hunter as a kid to cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:10 pm 
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dirtyblonde wrote:
hey well song time, find myself tyring to catch up, if I live up to Abraham Maslow view I fucked ehhh


Maslow, help! I'm buried under your hierarchy of needs pyramid, in the catacombs, like a mummy.

dirtyblonde wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOVzXYEU3Bk I loved ed hunter as a kid to cool.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9bP-LbR8u8


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:23 pm 
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Since it's sorta OT, I'll just post this in the thread here, rather than start a new thread.


Just heard this on NPR's. "All Things Considered". They discuss opiates, mostly.

Veterans Face Another Battle: Fighting Prescription Drug Addiction

Excerpt:


Quote:
During wartime, doctors and medics need to treat troops for pain, and often use prescription opiates to solve that problem. Americans in the military are prescribed narcotic painkillers three times as often as civilians. This year, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is treating about 650,000 veterans by giving them opiates.

And that can end up creating a new problem for patients with pain: addiction. Abuse of prescription drugs is higher among troops than civilians, and the rate soared throughout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Both the Pentagon and the VA fear this drug use contributes to suicide and homelessness among the men and women who have served in the military.

Full article at source link: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/07 ... -addiction


-----------


Can't Kill The Rooster.

Ain't found a way to kill me yet
Eyes burn with stinging sweat
Seems every path leads me to nowhere
Wife and kids, household pet
Army green was no safe bet
The bullets scream to me from somewhere


^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs ^

Layne Staley's (singer for Alice in Chains) father ("Rooster" whom the song^ is about) was addicted to opiates, and iirc, is how Layne (RIP) became introduced/interested in them.


The NPR story was in some respects enraging. Many vets getting dishonorable discharges, poor care, etc., after the military got them hooked in the first place, although there was a happy ending for one soldier, a compassionate and understanding military judge ended up giving him an honorable discharge in the end.


----edit. Too many "who"


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:29 pm 
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Sad story, I feel for the guy.

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:09 pm 
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Hey boop!! How goes it? What's up today?

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:24 pm 
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yea boop how goes it. wife had surgery, I think I may have needed it for my foot. it still hurts, but nothing compared to getting lost in the world again. She got a bunch of vic's, she was worried with me but I told her I did not want them at all. drop some real stuff, :twisted: , naw just kidding. hope your ok................. DB


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:14 pm 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
Hey boop!! How goes it? What's up today?


I'm hangin' in. Not much up with today so far (slept late into afternoon) except just that, "hangin' in". Thanks for asking :o)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:33 pm 
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dirtyblonde wrote:
yea boop how goes it. wife had surgery, I think I may have needed it for my foot. it still hurts, but nothing compared to getting lost in the world again. She got a bunch of vic's, she was worried with me but I told her I did not want them at all. drop some real stuff, :twisted: , naw just kidding. hope your ok................. DB


Oh geez. Well its probably not too late to get your foot checked out, but I'm not gonna say anything other than that, you'll do what you think's best, regardless of any of my advice, which isn't worth much anyway.

I hope your wife has a speedy, post-op recovery. And yeah, I imagine vic's would be easy to look over. With your history, to get the kind of buzz you were accustomed too, you'd have to destroy your liver with all of the Tylenol in those things, and she'd probably divorce you if they were all gone in a few days and she's in post-op pain, lol(?)

My last day of oxy was on Friday. I could have called for refill of that or something down a step, like Norco (hydro 10mg per tab). But something unexpected happened to provide an opportunity to get off oxy (or any other other pain meds if I asked for hydro to assist with full agonist taper), NOW. My buddy who was in long term treatment, just got out last week, and contacted me. He was in one for around 100 days, as an alternative to county jail for 90 days, for violating his probation (he had a possession charge) because the dummy dropped dirty. Probably best thing that could have happened to him, he seems gung ho now about recovery, and looks healthier than he ever has, since I've known him. Anyway, his long term gf is on sub maintenance. 'Somebody-who-isn't-me' ('SWIM'...lol...or is it MPD, multiple personality disorder) was able to get some subs and is looking at short term detox from oxy taper plans. Personally, I've been off subs well over 90 days (actually closer to 100, by estimating and not factoring 31 day months, etc), so could do something similar, to help with both pain along the way, and staying off oxy. And hopefully/probably have a relatively soft landing, without such a prolonged sub withdrawal.

OK (cuts the "SWIM" crap).

After previous injury and being cut off of oxy, I was only on them for months, not years. Still I was on them longer than needed tho, but I was scared of WDs, after I crossed a line and stayed on them too long, like somebody on maintenance, rather than trying to just detox off pain meds, as was original plan. Then finally getting up courage (and having a window of opportunity as well) for jumping @ 2 mgs. This time it has to be detox only, maintenance is not an option even if I actually wanted to go that route. No way of getting them really through traditional routes, I can't afford 300-400 initial consultation fees for example, and hmo wouldn't cover anything either. Cheap bastards, if they cover anything at all, it would probably be the methadone clinic, which I know is 60 cash a week around here, for those who pay out of pocket.

So subs are helping. Not as much for pain as oxy - when oxy PEAKS - but more consistent/smooth for pain, I think, as instant release oxy was a daily roller coaster ride (in more ways than one) since they fade fast after helping; only 3.5-4 hours, until pain relief noticeably begins to wear off. Today would be my peak of short acting, full agonist oxy withdrawals, without help of sub to mask over it. I do feel out of sorts in an opiod reduction way, and I think that's why. I also have a heating pad which really does help, especially during times when I feel pain on backside of shoulder, down to shoulder blade, along with the regular pain from shoulder in arm. Its all getting better though. I don't know if its the neurontin before bed, or bone mending (maybe a combo), but I have been waking up in less pain than usual lately, BEFORE sub re-induction. I'm going to cut back on neurontin and save some up in case I need higher than usual daily dose for a short while, after finishing sub detox/taper.

I found a site (link/URL, is below) which has a variety of short term sub use schedules, for heroin detox. If they work for H, they'll surely work for oxy. I'm looking at a two, to maybe three strip taper plan (so it will continue to help some with pain for awhile longer until I get into physical therapy, otherwise I'd would have gritted teeth if I had to, and do a one strip plan).

Have to scroll through all the basics about suboxone that we already know, to a section near the bottom of the web page, called "getting started", to see the various taper plans: http://www.howtoquitheroin.com/Quitting ... oxone.html

That site^ provides info about a bunch of different options for how to do it with various numbers of strips, including various timelines/schedules. I can adjust any plan down some (sub dose wise) since my daily oxy use wasn't comparable to that of whatever is average for a heroin user, and the site gives no mention about tweaking sub dose for amount of heroin used.


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Romeo wrote:

I hope the arm heals up soon, man. You've been putting up with it for too long already. Have you considered switching to Suboxone for the pain? Just a thought for ya.



Thought remained in back of mind. See post^ above :)

Switched mainly to get off oxy, but it helps with pain too.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:09 am 
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Hey boop! Very happy to learn you were able to successfully transition to the subs!! Yay for you!
Keep us posted on your taper plan please! :D
BF

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:29 pm 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
Hey boop! Very happy to learn you were able to successfully transition to the subs!! Yay for you!
Keep us posted on your taper plan please! :D
BF


Shit I'm having trouble getting my sleeping schedule in order. For real. Its not that I'm not getting enough sleep, its just when I sleep.

I have to focus come up with something of a plan, though, ASAP. With today's dose, I did the math subtracting total used from my little stash, and it looks like I have averaged 1.66 mg per day, since first dose on Saturday.

Some variables I have to consider are, using it as a pain medication, but tapering along the way, and not staying on it so long that I have a difficult time with a prolonged WD. Also I am going to order a couple things that helped me last time I jumped from sub, and it could take a couple weeks (give or take a few days) to arrive. Part of me is tempted to just to stay at 1mg, and doing the skip days thing at the "quitting heroin link", and see how it goes, and have it over with in under two weeks. Maybe the pain won't be much of an issue. If that doesn't work, I can always drop down to .75 for a few days, then .5, maybe with a day skip or two, then stop? Either way I have to taper just because of limited supply.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:00 pm 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
ButterFLYING! wrote:
Hey boop! Very happy to learn you were able to successfully transition to the subs!! Yay for you!
Keep us posted on your taper plan please! :D
BF


Shit I'm having trouble getting my sleeping schedule in order. For real. Its not that I'm not getting enough sleep, its just when I sleep.

I have to focus come up with something of a plan, though, ASAP. With today's dose, I did the math subtracting total used from my little stash, and it looks like I have averaged 1.66 mg per day, since first dose on Saturday.

Some variables I have to consider are, using it as a pain medication, but tapering along the way, and not staying on it so long that I have a difficult time with a prolonged WD. Also I am going to order a couple things that helped me last time I jumped from sub, and it could take a couple weeks (give or take a few days) to arrive. Part of me is tempted to just to stay at 1mg, and doing the skip days thing at the "quitting heroin link", and see how it goes, and have it over with in under two weeks. Maybe the pain won't be much of an issue. If that doesn't work, I can always drop down to .75 for a few days, then .5, maybe with a day skip or two, then stop? Either way I have to taper just because of limited supply.


Hey, Boop! The messed up sleep schedule is a drag for sure, but don't let it freak you out! People do not generally die from lack of sleep or sleeping on a messed up schedule. You will be ok. "One day at a time", ok? This might be an instance where 1mg of Meletonin prior to "desired" bedtime would be appropriate. From the bit of research I did, it was recommended for example for people starting a "night shift" to "reset" their body clocks. Sounds like your body clock needs re-setting.

You do what you need to do to taper the subs effectively. Personally I think it is a good thing you have a very limited amount. You must make it work. I really don't get the "skipping days" method. For me, I felt better just staying as "even" and "consistent" as I could. When I jumped and had a day under my belt, I did not want to give that up. I guess like most things in life, a large part is perception. Do what will work for you, and we'll be here to support you!
BF

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Well, my own concrete game plan as of now, is to stay at 1mg over the weekend (today, Sat and Sun).

Keeping in mind that everybody is different.. having been off subs for over 3 months, does anybody know if that's long enough to have sorta been "reset", suboxone-wise, or will stopping at any time now, be like picking up where I left off, with withdrawals similar to what I went through the first time I stopped (which followed having been ON it several months, prior to a 2mg jump?)

I'm looking at the taper plans at a site (link below in parenthesis), that are geared towards quitting heroin using Suboxone, short term. They have a variety of plan, starting from a 1 strip plan, going all the way to a 14 strip, 40 day plan. Now what I am looking at, is what they call the "32-Day Sub Plan: Requires 9 8mg Suboxone tablets or 9 8mg Suboxone film strips" BUT, obviously I can't do that, nor would I really want to if I could. HOWEVER, I am thinking of picking up at the "day 17" point (see attachment from http://www.howtoquitheroin.com/Quitting_Heroin_with_Suboxone.html), making today day 17, then, continuing to day 24, then stopping.

Then, if I have trouble (serious WDs and pain), picking back up again, and either skipping 0.5 days, or, maybe go .25 mg daily for a few, to see how it goes? I dunno, any other ideas or suggestions? All are welcome. I've thought about just jumping after the weekend from 1mg, to see how it goes, but not sure what my "pain index" will be like (that "1 thru 10" scale, 10 being the worst, as I'm sure you've all seen in an examination room at a doctors office, before). That might be the hardest symptom to cope with. But jumping from 1mg might be a way to find out, and maybe I won't have prolonged WDs from going CT (or any serious rebound pain from injury).

I do have about 30 clonidine pills to help (more like 28 and 1/2, I have used a few halves from the 30 I obtained, to help get to sleep at night on a few occasions, since stopping the oxy)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Looks like a good plan boop!!! You can do it! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:33 pm 
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how are things going, :?: :?: :?: :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:03 pm 
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dirtyblonde wrote:
how are things going, :?: :?: :?: :?:


Not all that good. I have about 1 whole strip, and maybe 3/8ths of another strip left, yet, I'm still stuck around 1mg daily, give or take a .25 sliver (I have .5 and .25 slivers cut up, from what's left of the opened strip.)

All kinds of BS happening in my personal life at the moment (not love life, which is doesn't exist on this planet. More economic, HMO, and family related drama), my arm still hurts (a large reason for staying stuck and not having tapered off, even though subs don't work so good for pain, even if they are less of a roller coaster than percocets, in the, "this hurts!" "ahh, feels much better". "This effin hurts!" "ahh, feels so much better..." department. I have to bite the bullet and drop to .5 mg ASAP. And when the subs run out, I have no comfort meds. Well, around 20ish clonidine, the .1 pills, but that's it, except for what I can get OTC (NyQuil, some Dramamine if there is nausea, some Imodium for the runs).

Wish me luck. Will report back when I feel human enough to post, after D-Day with the subs arrives.


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