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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:29 am 
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You said: "...many of the head meds out there are just as difficult if not more so, to withdrawal from than some narcotics, they just don't trigger any urge to abuse in addicts. I think I read the WHO (the World Health Organization) has Paxil, an SSRI like Prozac, etc, listed as one of the top ten most difficult meds to withdraw from"

(I think we both hit "submit" at the same time with our last posts btw! lol)

Does Zoloft fall into this category? My husband has been trying to get off it for quite awhile, and says it really messes with his mind when he tries....any suggestions? He is also taking 8mg subs (my "dealer" ha ha, but not so funny...won't be enabling me anymore though...if he does I'm "gone". He is "tapering" subs now, slowly like I did)

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:49 am 
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BF, a few years ago, when I started on subs, the protocol at that time in the clinic was to prescribe an anti depressant with subs. They started me on zoloft. I took it for a month and stopped. I had weird zappy sensations and felt this strange "whoosh" dizzy type sensation randomly, even just sitting. I dont know if your hubs felt anything like that but they wanted me to try something different and I adamently refused, saying I wasnt depressed, never felt depressed and I didn't need stuff like that. I am glad my dr said ok, and didnt force it on me (I would of just filled the script and tossed it anyway), but I was told if you abruptly stop, you get seretonin reuptake syndrome, and it could be dangerous. Idk what that syndrome is, but doesnt sound nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:52 am 
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Boop, glad you areback. I missed stalking your posts buddy!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:13 am 
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Romeo wrote:
Ahhhhh, that's such a great tune!! Haven't listened to it in forever. Thanks, Bud. I like the junkie cosmonaut going down reference, too.

For some reason, it reminded me of this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDkhl-CgETg&feature=kp

I hope the arm heals up soon, man. You've been putting up with it for too long already. Have you considered switching to Suboxone for the pain? Just a thought for ya.



I definitely went down hard, I wish the ref would have called the fight off, I'd rather have had a tiny piece of my ear bit off like the infamous Holyfield vs Tyson fight.

A return to sub use would be very tricky. It wouldn't take much though, I think about 1 mg would more than cover me where I'm at now in terms of equivalents and not having WDs, but, the partial agonsist/antagnoist of bupe might make it require more analgesic effect.

There is also the problem of never having gotten subs from a doc. So a shit load of red tape and possible waiting lists to get subs otherwise, when I have immediate issues. It can be prescribed off label for pain management, but can be difficult to find a doc willing to prescribe it that way, perhaps cuz its Schedule II and unorthodox unless one is established as an addict. Usually its Temgesic .02 mg for migraines from what I understand, which isn't considered off label. My old primary source is in drug rehab, it's only number I have. Every other source I called and diplomatically said "do not call me, and I'm deleting your number, its nothing personal, yadda blah yadda blah blah". I hate to ask him since he is in rehab, but MAYBE if he understands its a one time deal and explain circumstances, the guy in rehab will know somebody from whom I can get one strip (and that's all I want) and do a quick taper after Perc jump to get through worst of withdrawals of short acting opiods, and then jump to detox withdrawal meds.

I can get clonodine (I have a little left over from sub detox jump, but not much), phenergan, and Toradol/Ketorolac, and a little Lyrica, all from one reliable IOP, for under 100. Toradol is like the morphine of NSAIDs, but can only be used orally for 5 days without risking a bleeding ulcer, etc (see wiki quote below). But that might be enough for the very shortlived (but more intense) short acting, full agonist WDs. Then I could switch to occasional use of OTC NSAIDS. Fuck it if it makes mending process a little slower, is where I'm at now, its a trade off with dealing with physical dependance/addiction issues.

Quote:
Ketorolac is indicated for short-term management of moderate to severe pain. Concerns about the high incidence of reported side effects led to restriction in its dosage and maximum duration of use. In the UK, treatment should be initiated only in a hospital. Maximum duration of treatment should not exceed five days for tablets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketorolac


Also, I can probably get Neurontin/gabapentin from a PN I see if/when I need bipolar meds, and skip the Lyrica to save more $ (HMO will cover most since gabapentin is generic, with small copay), since they are basically the same thing, Lyrica is essentially just a stronger med they came out with when the Neurontin patent expired. Its often used off-label for bipolar as an adjunctive to other stuff. Plus I am getting tingling pains in my hand when Perc wears off, which I think is neuropathic pain (hopefully/probably temporary), which is another use for gabapentin that is FDA approved. All the other stuff from the IOP listed above, are uncontrolled/non scheduled meds, so no issues of them maybe or maybe not making it through customs.

Oh good tune btw. Seque with that, back to Astronaut/Cosmonaut theme :)
(Heading 'back up' mended and clean eventually, without going down with a crash and burn again, please.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9gOQgfPW4Y


edit: redundant nonsense.


errata: "...to get through worst of withdrawals short acting withdrawals..."


should be:
"...to get through worst of withdrawals of short acting opiods..."


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:19 am 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
You said: "...many of the head meds out there are just as difficult if not more so, to withdrawal from than some narcotics, they just don't trigger any urge to abuse in addicts. I think I read the WHO (the World Health Organization) has Paxil, an SSRI like Prozac, etc, listed as one of the top ten most difficult meds to withdraw from"

(I think we both hit "submit" at the same time with our last posts btw! lol)

Does Zoloft fall into this category? My husband has been trying to get off it for quite awhile, and says it really messes with his mind when he tries....any suggestions? He is also taking 8mg subs (my "dealer" ha ha, but not so funny...won't be enabling me anymore though...if he does I'm "gone". He is "tapering" subs now, slowly like I did)


I think Zoloft does too, but Paxil was at one time the worst of the of SSRIs on WHO's list, maybe still is (would have to do some research to get up to date, there are so many SSRI drugs out now since the days when the "big three" were Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft). My mom was on Zoloft long ago, and would have horrible crying jags and no energy when she tried to stop suddenly, but eventually did her own version of a taper (taking it sporadically and instead of methodical tapering, than jumping)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:21 am 
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trainer14 wrote:
Boop, glad you areback. I missed stalking your posts buddy!!!!!!!


Aw, thanks Trainer! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:24 am 
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trainer14 wrote:
BF, a few years ago, when I started on subs, the protocol at that time in the clinic was to prescribe an anti depressant with subs. They started me on zoloft. I took it for a month and stopped. I had weird zappy sensations and felt this strange "whoosh" dizzy type sensation randomly, even just sitting. I dont know if your hubs felt anything like that but they wanted me to try something different and I adamently refused, saying I wasnt depressed, never felt depressed and I didn't need stuff like that. I am glad my dr said ok, and didnt force it on me (I would of just filled the script and tossed it anyway), but I was told if you abruptly stop, you get seretonin reuptake syndrome, and it could be dangerous. Idk what that syndrome is, but doesnt sound nice.

(Hey boop- sorry to hijack your thread for a sec)
Hey Trainer, thanks, that does sound like what he was experiencing, and just could not tolerate it. His docs have not been able to help him, and in addition to being an addict, he recently also had a rather serious accident at work (which he has healed substantially from, but has left him with a permanent disability (implant in eye) and chronic pain (Ug!), has been through several surgeries, and LOTS of docs....Gdamn Drs.....(and I come from a medical family! Dad = MD, Sis = RN, Bro = Med school when we "lost" him) I think they should all be put through a course of the drugs they prescribe and the withdrawals involved prior to prescribing!! LOL- but I think it would definitely make them more 'sensitive' to patient needs, KWIM???
K, climbing back off soap box.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:39 am 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
trainer14 wrote:
BF, a few years ago, when I started on subs, the protocol at that time in the clinic was to prescribe an anti depressant with subs. They started me on zoloft. I took it for a month and stopped. I had weird zappy sensations and felt this strange "whoosh" dizzy type sensation randomly, even just sitting. I dont know if your hubs felt anything like that but they wanted me to try something different and I adamently refused, saying I wasnt depressed, never felt depressed and I didn't need stuff like that. I am glad my dr said ok, and didnt force it on me (I would of just filled the script and tossed it anyway), but I was told if you abruptly stop, you get seretonin reuptake syndrome, and it could be dangerous. Idk what that syndrome is, but doesnt sound nice.

(Hey boop- sorry to hijack your thread for a sec)
Hey Trainer, thanks, that does sound like what he was experiencing, and just could not tolerate it. His docs have not been able to help him, and in addition to being an addict, he recently also had a rather serious accident at work (which he has healed substantially from, but has left him with a permanent disability (implant in eye) and chronic pain (Ug!), has been through several surgeries, and LOTS of docs....Gdamn Drs.....(and I come from a medical family! Dad = MD, Sis = RN, Bro = Med school when we "lost" him) I think they should all be put through a course of the drugs they prescribe and the withdrawals involved prior to prescribing!! LOL- but I think it would definitely make them more 'sensitive' to patient needs, KWIM???
K, climbing back off soap box.


Oh you're fine, you make good sense and can climb on your sudsy pedestal whenever you want on this thread. I consider it kind of a 'mutating', free form thread now, and from past experience on forums, seemingly OT tangents can often lead full circle back to new insights about whatever the topic underway is, anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:50 am 
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Forgive me if I've missed it, but have you had x-rays or an MRI on the arm/shoulder? Do you or your doctors know exactly what's wrong with it?

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:34 am 
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Romeo wrote:
Forgive me if I've missed it, but have you had x-rays or an MRI on the arm/shoulder? Do you or your doctors know exactly what's wrong with it?


Yeah, and its a humerus (ha ha, funny bone) fracture INSIDE the rotater cuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:21 pm 
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I got my Neurontin/Gapapentin from my PN. A lot. 2400 mg per day in 600 mg pills, 30 days worth. Stuff surprised the hell out of me, I took two last night eventually, when I was having trouble falling asleep (1200mg) and when it hit, slightly stumbled on way to bedroom like I was tipsy from alcohol, and slept like the dead, and when I woke up today, I wasn't sweaty from night dose of perc having worn off and didn't even feel like I needed a perc, it seemed to reduce pain too. So held off for awhile in morning, 2 hours. I've read anecdotes of people saying they used it exclusively to get thru opiate withdrawals nearly painlessly, on other sites (Erowid, Bluelight, etc). I was skeptical to a degree, and it seemed like it helped some more than others from anecdotal reports, but now think its at very least a good aid, especially for short acting opiate withdrawals, that are shorter in duration (because of neurontin tolerance build up, but seems like hitting it hard especially during peak of a sub WD would be helpful too). I'm going to go easy on it while tapering as tolerance to it can go up fast, then hit it harder at jump time. But was easy to drop my total intake of perc for day by 25%.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:31 pm 
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"Oh by the way, which one is Pink?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjoPWxmOCtc


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:59 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
But was easy to drop my total intake of perc for day by 25%.

Wow! 25% drop! Great work!! Keep it up! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:29 am 
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Forgot to say "thanks butterflying" for the encouragement, even though I thought it.

This is probably one of my favorite fan vids ever, made to go along with one of Zappa's most moving instrumentals.

http://vimeo.com/7952883


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Hey...check pm...


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:40 am 
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mama79 wrote:
Hey...check pm...


Tag, you're it.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:06 am 
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Update please! How's the arm healing?

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:12 am 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
Update please! How's the arm healing?


Hi BF, thanks for asking,

I think it's getting better. It's still in the sling. Mornings are usually always the roughest still. I think a combo of moving around in bed while sleeping, almost rolling over on it sometimes (which wakes me up, ugh. I sleep on my side generally, sometimes on back, and usually switch sides several times during the night- when uninjured obviously), and pain meds wearing off from day/night before. It has been tangibly better in mornings though, not excruciating at least. I take time and can walk to kitchen for pain med, rather than sprint and have it down in nanoseconds, lol. I've even held off up to an hour or so since starting to take neurontin, which helps with some nerve related pain, like pins and needles in hand feeling. Yesterday while showering I moved it in a reflexive way that was too much tho, and had that dagger feeling, through back to front of shoulder for awhile after, and used a heating pad to get help get the pain down. I am supposed to start physical therapy next week, which is encouraging, yet will be telling too perhaps. More xrays later this month, but he must have seen some progress with last set, otherwise wouldn't have wanted me to start physical therapy. I wish he had a computer monitor in the patient rooms with the xrays on the screen like when my foot was broke, so I could view any of the progress myself. I always studied them really closely and practically memorized them while sitting in there alone waiting, after the xray tech inserted them for the doc, so could see the difference myself at next appointment, but I am at a different clinic for the arm/shoulder, and no monitors in rooms, so haven't been able to see them myself, this go-around.


All of the nasty discoloration in places far from injury, some of it from internal bleeding (initially it drained down as far as middle of my forearm) as well as bruising, has gone away and not returned, so that is cool too. That had me scared at first, as I worried about having torn up at least some, semi major veins/arteries in rotator cuff, etc, but it must have been just a lot of minor capillaries.

Physical therapy will probably be gentle stuff at first, from what I've heard from others who've had similar injuries, they do somethings for one while in office, moving arm around too see how far it can be moved in diff directions, without setting off too much pain, and then have one do stuff at home; initially, things like like crawl fingers along a wall in different directions, or pretend to be painting a wall with imaginary paint brush strokes. I have some stress about HMO covering physical therapy, as they have fought me every step of the way for things even like paying for a cat scan (citing "xrays should be good enough", as if they know better than the doctor. They don't, they just want to weasel out of paying for anything they can)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:08 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

1. I think it's getting better.

2. or pretend to be painting a wall with imaginary paint brush strokes.


1. Hurray!! I will pray for you and "visualize" your arm healed this morning (for what it is worth :D )

2. Just a thought, why not get some "real" paint and an easel and do a bit of actual "creating" while you do your physical therapy? Might be good for the ol' soul! (And I believe you do have an "old soul" btw :) )
Keep healing!
BF

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Thanks BF.

I'd paint if I could in here, but I'd lose some or all of my security deposit, most likely. I went nuts redecorating a previous apt i lived in some years back, since I planned to stay awhile (at least a few years), and wanted it to feel "cozy", they way I liked it (instead of baby food puke color, as I described it), so used different colors and some wallpapering, bordering, etc, and a couple neighbors saw it, and said they thought it was coolest apt they'd seen in building, but the landlord wasn't amused, since they used they same color for all their units on move outs, for "touch ups", so he took entire security deposit, citing that entire apt would have to be repainted with two coats to cover up the colors (forest green and burgundy were the two main colors that I used most, so hard to cover with the yellowish/beige "off white" neutral colors, heh). I'm on a month to month lease where I am now, and could pick up and go anytime if something comes up, so best to leave it the way it is. I have some pictures on the walls. and a large wall tapestry hung up on one wall, tho. They can't say anything about a few wall hanging holes judging by the lease, that's easy to fix with a dab of spackling and some touch up paint.


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