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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:57 pm 
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rca1004 wrote:
Reflecting on THAT certainly puts the "suffering" involved in detox into perspective, right?


For sure, it's all relative to one's own circumstances with themselves and ther immediate environment, yet when one step's away from their own problems for a wider objective view, perspective is one of the benefits.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:24 am 
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Hey, Happy Saturday Boop! Yesterday I wrote you a long post in response to something you wrote on another thread, (which I can't seem to find today), but the gist of it was that you are agnostic, and you said something about the burden of proof on the "believer" , and you at times pray but it might just be because of social conditioning, etc? You mentioned that one must make a "leap of faith" to believe in "God"? Well, I just kinda went "off" in my response sharing with you some of how I personally made that 'leap' (it took me a long, long time to leap, hope it doesn't take as long to "jump" ha ha!), then after some reflection, I worried that you might get really "turned off" from that post, and think I was trying to coerce you into becoming a "believer" or something. Then, after reflecting on it MORE (ha ha ha), I changed my mind AGAIN (I am a woman after all, ha ha ha), and decided that you and I understand each other enough (hopefully) that you would know I am just interested in your thoughts on the matter. I totally agree about respecting EVERYONE'S means of drug abstinence and "what works for them", so again, the below are just my own personal thoughts/ views, and I only share them with you to get your opinions and feedback, because I think it is healthy for me to share and not censor myself (isolate) anymore, KWIM?? SO, below is that post from yesterday. If you have time and inclination to read and reply, great! If not, equally ok!! :D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Re- posting removed post from yesterday)
Hey Boop, Interesting comment! I used to feel very much the same as you do. The spiritual / religious component to the 12 step program used to do nothing but piss me off. I was raised "Christian" (I do not like this label for a variety of reasons, most notably all the hypocrites who give it a bad rep.). Then I totally "turned away", angry as Hell at God when my big brother at 18 years old was unexpectedly killed in a car crash (I was 14, this, in addition to occasionally but consistently being beaten / attacked throughout my childhood, teen years, and even once relatively recently as an adult- set up the foundation for my PTSD). In my younger adult life I was like you, Agnostic, but went through periods of "searching" and explored many different "religions". Mostly I felt some type of "God / Creative Force / Higher Power" might be a possibility, but with no proof, can't say yes, can't say no. A series of events changed my mind, and yes, absolutely there must be some type of "leap" of faith, but for the highly "logical" mind, I think this leap might be a tad more difficult.

One of my favorite quotes is from Einstein: (paraphrasing):
"There are two ways of looking at the world; Either everything is a miracle, or nothing is. "

He did not believe in a "personal" God (I will continue using this word but in my opinion this Divine Power can be "called" whatever it's Creation feels called to label it, KWIM? God Higher Power, Karma, Budda, Mohammed, Jesus (which in the original Hebrew if I am not mistaken is closer to "Joshua" actually). Einstein did believe in a Higher "Creative Force", and when he died, he was still searching for that one mathematical equation that would explain how "everything" works together. He did not believe (nor do I) that our physical Universe was accidental, he thought that the Divine Mind had planned it all, and that there was a harmonious mathematical way to explain how everything works. This is my understanding from what I have read about Einstein (If I am wrong, someone please correct me). Also, you know that all matter is energy, right? What we "observe" is an illusion (there is a deeper "quantum physics" explanation that I can't put my finger on right now- quantum physicists, please feel free to chime in -hahah). Another "fact" that helped me make the leap, is the scientific study of the Shroud of Turin, believed to have covered Jesus' (Joshua's) body before he "rose" from the dead? I watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel (many years ago, would like to see it again!). Anyway, the scientists who did the study came to the conclusion that the image of the man on the shroud was caused by some type of energy transference, but one that they themselves could not duplicate. Also, there has been some controversy about the age of the shroud, (carbon dating). Some tests have placed it at a later date than Christ, however it was stored somewhere that had a fire which accounts for the mixed results in dating, and I can't remember how they definitively dated it as about 2000 years old, but I remember it made logical sense to me at the time. Another "fact" that helped me leap was when I became pregnant. My husband and I did not "create" or "think up" the baby growing inside me ( I mean it was not a "miraculous conception" in the Biblical sense- hahaha, but if you think about it, isn't ALL conception, "miraculous'?? Science can only explain it to a point). THAT is a miracle that is so common, we accept it as "science". (I have the feeling that God has us recreate this way to help some of us experience a fraction of how much He loves us, and also so we don't "freak" out with new people just "appearing" out of dust, ha ha) I personally also have had some "Spiritual" experiences that have also convinced me (in addition to the above) that there is definitely a Divine Creative Power behind the illusion of the physical realm our bodies inhabit. I believe we are all connected to this energy source, and therefore all connected to each other. I also believe that our purpose here is to 1. To the best of our abilities, follow God's plan and purpose for our individual lives and 2. Love each other unconditionally (that means no judgements or labels).
Just some 'food for thought'. Keep "seeking"!! :)

PS. Although "Einstein" did not believe in a "personal" relationship with "God", I do.
I guess "I'm no Einstein" (But that is fairly obvious--ha ha ha)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:31 pm 
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rca1004 wrote:
Hey, Happy Saturday Boop!


Happy Saturn Day back @ ya!
rca1004 wrote:
If you have time and inclination to read and reply, great! If not, equally ok!! :D



I really don't have much to add to, or contradict what you wrote, but it was interesting to read about how you arrived at where you are today in this regard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rca1004 wrote:
Just some 'food for thought'. Keep "seeking"!! :)


I'm not uncomfortable with any uncertainty in this regard, yet, I keep an open mind even when not actively seeking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVxagKjTqeM

-and-

"Cheerful Reflections on Death and Dying":
http://covertress.blogspot.com/2010/09/ ... dying.html



*

edit: missing word typo; "...[how] you arrived at..."


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:44 pm 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
rca1004 wrote:
Hey, Happy Saturday Boop!


Happy Saturn Day back @ ya!
rca1004 wrote:
If you have time and inclination to read and reply, great! If not, equally ok!! :D



I really don't have much to add to, or contradict what you wrote, but it was interesting to read about how you arrived at where you are today in this regard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rca1004 wrote:
Just some 'food for thought'. Keep "seeking"!! :)


I'm not uncomfortable with any uncertainty in this regard, yet, I keep an open mind even when not actively seeking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVxagKjTqeM

-and-

"Cheerful Reflections on Death and Dying":
http://covertress.blogspot.com/2010/09/ ... dying.html




Thanks- great song and article. I especially like the description of "heaven" filled with
"Christians" who each think "their brand" makes them the "chosen few" (ha!) and it being guarded by the Marines (a police state- ha again!) The "republican" comment was funny too! The article makes good sense (I like the point about "eternal suffering = a "mad" as in crazy Divine Mind which is nonsensical). One thing that wasn't mentioned, is that in our country you CAN get a "living will" made so your life will not be prolonged unnecessarily. I also agree that if a person is living in pain with no hope of recovery, that is just cruel to force them to keep "living" and they should have the choice of "freedom" from that pain and suffering, to go "where ever" we go (or to go "no where" into oblivion, which I agree does not sound too bad, because you won't know the difference, so "who cares"). Personally, I feel we will be "joined' somehow with the Divine Mind/ Creative Force, but of course do not claim to "know" for sure or "how" we will be joined. I do have a very strong faith however that this is true. But if I'm wrong and we just go to "oblivion", hey, I won't know the difference when I'm dead, right? K, thanks again, I knew you'd most likely give me something interesting to read and think about which I think is healthy for my recovery process. KWIM?
rca


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:39 pm 
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rca1004 wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
rca1004 wrote:
Hey, Happy Saturday Boop!


Happy Saturn Day back @ ya!
rca1004 wrote:
If you have time and inclination to read and reply, great! If not, equally ok!! :D



I really don't have much to add to, or contradict what you wrote, but it was interesting to read about how you arrived at where you are today in this regard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rca1004 wrote:
Just some 'food for thought'. Keep "seeking"!! :)


I'm not uncomfortable with any uncertainty in this regard, yet, I keep an open mind even when not actively seeking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVxagKjTqeM

-and-

"Cheerful Reflections on Death and Dying":
http://covertress.blogspot.com/2010/09/ ... dying.html




Thanks- great song and article. I especially like the description of "heaven" filled with
"Christians" who each think "their brand" makes them the "chosen few" (ha!) and it being guarded by the Marines (a police state- ha again!) The "republican" comment was funny too! The article makes good sense (I like the point about "eternal suffering = a "mad" as in crazy Divine Mind which is nonsensical). One thing that wasn't mentioned, is that in our country you CAN get a "living will" made so your life will not be prolonged unnecessarily. I also agree that if a person is living in pain with no hope of recovery, that is just cruel to force them to keep "living" and they should have the choice of "freedom" from that pain and suffering, to go "where ever" we go (or to go "no where" into oblivion, which I agree does not sound too bad, because you won't know the difference, so "who cares"). Personally, I feel we will be "joined' somehow with the Divine Mind/ Creative Force, but of course do not claim to "know" for sure or "how" we will be joined. I do have a very strong faith however that this is true. But if I'm wrong and we just go to "oblivion", hey, I won't know the difference when I'm dead, right? K, thanks again, I knew you'd most likely give me something interesting to read and think about which I think is healthy for my recovery process. KWIM?
rca



I'm glad you checked it out. The late Robert Anton Wilson is one of many who have had a major influence on my thinking. He was very intelligent, insightful and thoughtful, had a sense of humor (the "Republican" comment made laugh too), and seemed like a nice guy who was down to earth. I also enjoyed the part of him liking the idea of being reincarnated - even though he didn't take much stock in it - so he could love his wife, Arlen, again. She passed away before him, relatively young, and R.A.W. never remarried.


Anyway, here is a short video of his that I always like to review if I find myself wallowing in pessimism.

"Pessimism vs Optimism": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLY9VUKpRM


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:07 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
I also enjoyed the part of him liking the idea of being reincarnated - even though he didn't take much stock in it - so he could love his wife, Arlen, again. She passed away before him, relatively young, and R.A.W. never remarried.

Anyway, here is a short video of his that I always like to review if I find myself wallowing in pessimism.

"Pessimism vs Optimism": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLY9VUKpRM


Yes, I agree that is very touching and sweet about loving his wife again. Great clip on optimism- simple, but SO true! Sometimes due to circumstance or for clinical reasons, we can't just "decide" to be optimistic, but MANY times, we do have a 'choice' and that is really good to keep in mind. Why waste our lives expecting the "worst"? During my years on the ships, literally thousands of people passed through my life, and I found I could make some "generalizations" about people, and yes, there were definitely some people who just "made themselves" miserable when there was nothing to complain about, and then there was that fortunate group who "looked on the bright side" and like R.A.W. said, enjoyed life more fully. Thanks again for sharing! Hope you are doing ok with the meds and are in less pain today.
rca


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:20 pm 
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how are you doing boop


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:27 am 
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Boop! Hey, where are you? Please check in!

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Mahatma Gandhi


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:09 pm 
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Knock Knock!!!! Are you there???? Hope you are okay...


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:51 pm 
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We need more music links, Bro. We're dying on the vine here!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:04 am 
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mama79 wrote:
Knock Knock!!!! Are you there???? Hope you are okay...


Hi Mama! I'm okay. Thanks for asking. :) I even shaved tonight, after a few slack days. :P

I read your thread, is good to know YOU are doing so well. I'm envious, you can use your juice machine. I can't manage to scrub the screen on mine with one left arm, even if I do it right after juicing, it still takes some elbow grease with a brush to get it clean. And you're exercising too? I'm scared, if you're hitting the weights, you'd probably break my arm if we arm wrestled. Oh wait, it's already broken, darrr... at least my right arm/shoulder, but my left arm is probably getting stronger to compensate.

I've had a very shitty last few days. I've been trying to taper down the pain meds since it seems about a month on them starting with ER visit to ortho clinic, but figured out I was probably going about it all wrong. Skipping doses I tried, but when pain comes back full on, its harder to beat back down than trying to keep it to a minimum. I tried breaking every dose into 1/3s then, and taking 2/3 at regular intervals, but still felt on edge of WDs (some sweats and other issues, not horrible, but def not feeling like myself) on top of the pain. DUH. I think it needs to be done like sub tapers, but a little quicker. Just take the regular full doses except one dose, cut back 1/4, for 3/4 full dose (I have a pill chopper so can cut into halves and then quarters) every two or three days (since its shorter acting opiate, that might work, without much noticeable change) as opposed to the dropping a bit every week or two like sub tapering, which I don't really have any experience with, I just jumped from two mg after being on that dose for most of the time I was on it. I'd just try to jump from the pain meds if my arm was mended, but know I couldn't deal with it otherwise, so kinda want to go slow with it in line with shoulder mending/gradually improving, like intersecting curves if I made a graph, then have my doc drop me down to something less strong at refill times, rinse and repeat.

Anyway, good to hear from you. I hope you're resting well as I type. Talk later..

Edit: Bad grammars, spelnig, elaborationings etc
Edited four times. I swear I'm not anal retentive, just ask the bottle of Imodium in my medicine cabinet.


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:44 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:05 am 
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Romeo wrote:
We need more music links, Bro. We're dying on the vine here!!!


"The fruit is rusting on the vine..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdlqjiQPAc

Edit: Some days lately, I feel like I've been pummeled to the ground by Sandra Bernhard. And then kicked in the nuts, even though they left that part out of the video.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:28 am 
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Hey Boop!!! Welcome back! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:48 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
mama79 wrote:
Knock Knock!!!! Are you there???? Hope you are okay...


Hi Mama! I'm okay. Thanks for asking. :) I even shaved tonight, after a few slack days. :P

I read your thread, is good to know YOU are doing so well. I'm envious, you can use your juice machine. I can't manage to scrub the screen on mine with one left arm, even if I do it right after juicing, it still takes some elbow grease with a brush to get it clean. And you're exercising too? I'm scared, if you're hitting the weights, you'd probably break my arm if we arm wrestled. Oh wait, it's already broken, darrr... at least my right arm/shoulder, but my left arm is probably getting stronger to compensate.

I've had a very shitty last few days. I've been trying to taper down the pain meds since it seems about a month on them starting with ER visit to ortho clinic, but figured out I was probably going about it all wrong. Skipping doses I tried, but when pain comes back full on, its harder to beat back down than trying to keep it to a minimum. I tried breaking every dose into 1/3s then, and taking 2/3 at regular intervals, but still felt on edge of WDs (some sweats and other issues, not horrible, but def not feeling like myself) on top of the pain. DUH. I think it needs to be done like sub tapers, but a little quicker. Just take the regular full doses except one dose, cut back 1/4, for 3/4 full dose (I have a pill chopper so can cut into halves and then quarters) every two or three days (since its shorter acting opiate, that might work, without much noticeable change) as opposed to the dropping a bit every week or two like sub tapering, which I don't really have any experience with, I just jumped from two mg after being on that dose for most of the time I was on it. I'd just try to jump from the pain meds if my arm was mended, but know I couldn't deal with it otherwise, so kinda want to go slow with it in line with shoulder mending/gradually improving, like intersecting curves if I made a graph, then have my doc drop me down to something less strong at refill times, rinse and repeat.

Anyway, good to hear from you. I hope you're resting well as I type. Talk later..

Edit: Bad grammars, spelnig, elaborationings etc
Edited four times. I swear I'm not anal retentive, just ask the bottle of Imodium in my medicine cabinet.


Hey! Sorry you've been having a rough go at it lately, but good to hear from you. Not sure what you've been taking for pain, but is it possible to switch over to something like Tramadol for a while? I know perfectly well that you can get addicted to those too, but they are basically the bottom of the totem pole in regard to narcotics (where I'm from, they aren't even classified as a controlled substance) and maybe do a taper with those? My heart just goes out to you after jumping off sub, then being in pain after a tragic accident! However, glad you were able to get your shave on!

I actually have a Nutribullet, so cleaning is a lot easier. I also wanted to say that I completely understand not wanting to post because you feel terrible; I've had a few of those days. Check back in when you're up for it...


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:16 pm 
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Ahhhhh, that's such a great tune!! Haven't listened to it in forever. Thanks, Bud. I like the junkie cosmonaut going down reference, too.

For some reason, it reminded me of this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDkhl-CgETg&feature=kp

I hope the arm heals up soon, man. You've been putting up with it for too long already. Have you considered switching to Suboxone for the pain? Just a thought for ya.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Hey NBSBD, hope you're hanging in there. I know that 'too lazy to post' feeling, check back in when you're up to it.

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:08 pm 
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keep strong and keep posting, wishing the best, keep your rainbow, nothing can take it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmSt1oEIshE


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:22 am 
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Hey Boop!
How's it going with the arm & meds? (if you feel like sharing that is) Just wanted to let you know that seeing you're posting again today has lifted my spirits even higher!
Keep it up! :D
BF

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Last edited by ButterFLYING! on Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:22 am 
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mama79 wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
mama79 wrote:
Knock Knock!!!! Are you there???? Hope you are okay...


Hi Mama! I'm okay. Thanks for asking. :) I even shaved tonight, after a few slack days. :P

I read your thread, is good to know YOU are doing so well. I'm envious, you can use your juice machine. I can't manage to scrub the screen on mine with one left arm, even if I do it right after juicing, it still takes some elbow grease with a brush to get it clean. And you're exercising too? I'm scared, if you're hitting the weights, you'd probably break my arm if we arm wrestled. Oh wait, it's already broken, darrr... at least my right arm/shoulder, but my left arm is probably getting stronger to compensate.

I've had a very shitty last few days. I've been trying to taper down the pain meds since it seems about a month on them starting with ER visit to ortho clinic, but figured out I was probably going about it all wrong. Skipping doses I tried, but when pain comes back full on, its harder to beat back down than trying to keep it to a minimum. I tried breaking every dose into 1/3s then, and taking 2/3 at regular intervals, but still felt on edge of WDs (some sweats and other issues, not horrible, but def not feeling like myself) on top of the pain. DUH. I think it needs to be done like sub tapers, but a little quicker. Just take the regular full doses except one dose, cut back 1/4, for 3/4 full dose (I have a pill chopper so can cut into halves and then quarters) every two or three days (since its shorter acting opiate, that might work, without much noticeable change) as opposed to the dropping a bit every week or two like sub tapering, which I don't really have any experience with, I just jumped from two mg after being on that dose for most of the time I was on it. I'd just try to jump from the pain meds if my arm was mended, but know I couldn't deal with it otherwise, so kinda want to go slow with it in line with shoulder mending/gradually improving, like intersecting curves if I made a graph, then have my doc drop me down to something less strong at refill times, rinse and repeat.

Anyway, good to hear from you. I hope you're resting well as I type. Talk later..

Edit: Bad grammars, spelnig, elaborationings etc
Edited four times. I swear I'm not anal retentive, just ask the bottle of Imodium in my medicine cabinet.


Hey! Sorry you've been having a rough go at it lately, but good to hear from you. Not sure what you've been taking for pain, but is it possible to switch over to something like Tramadol for a while? I know perfectly well that you can get addicted to those too, but they are basically the bottom of the totem pole in regard to narcotics (where I'm from, they aren't even classified as a controlled substance) and maybe do a taper with those? My heart just goes out to you after jumping off sub, then being in pain after a tragic accident! However, glad you were able to get your shave on!

I actually have a Nutribullet, so cleaning is a lot easier. I also wanted to say that I completely understand not wanting to post because you feel terrible; I've had a few of those days. Check back in when you're up for it...


Ah, wish I had Nutribullet. My old school "Juiceman" is holding up good tho (even though I'm not holding up well enough currently, to hold it with one hand and scrub with other), so maybe if/when it breaks I'll come by and borrow yours for a test run. :P

Thanks for the tramadol suggest, but I don't think it would have any effect with where my tolerance is, unless I took massive quantities, and then I run the risk of having to withdrawal from the tramadols SSRI effects as well, so it would be double jeapordy in one pill (many of the head meds out there are just as difficult if not more so, to withdrawal from than some narcotics, they just don't trigger any urge to abuse in addicts. I think I read the WHO (the World Health Organization) has Paxil, an SSRI like Prozac, etc, listed as one of the top ten most difficult meds to withdraw from. Anyway, they had to give me a morphine shot to calm me down at ER, and sent me away with script for instructions to take two Norcos every 4-6 hours, and when I finally found an ortho specialist who would see me on semi short notice, he put me on Percs, 10 mg. So taking up to 40 mg oxycodone a day (I think its the equivalent of 60 mg hydrocodone a day). As an aside, I've a crappy HMO with what I think has an intentionally bogus list of providers as false advertising (but with 'plausible deniability' if confronted legally about it) for HMO shoppers -"Wow, what a wide range of care providers!! I'm signing up!" At least half I called no longer participated in the HMOs provider network anymore, some had disconnected phone numbers, others were booked for a month. I confronted them about it, and the HMO said it's the doctors/clinics responsibility to have themselves removed from their list, but one I called actually said they'd never participated, and have called the HMO on several occasions to get removed, and their request was ignored! So I smell BS on that count. I spent too many days til I finally found an ortho specialist in the network who was willing to squeeze me in, and its an hour drive one way from where I live. A taper plan and then a jump seems my only option... (or 'maybe' sub for pain, but see below) :(


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:24 am 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
Hey Boop!
How's it going with the arm & meds? (if you feel like sharing that is) Just wanted to let you know that seeing you're posting again today has lifted my spirits even higher!
Keep it up! :D
BF


Oh, glad to hear it! At least I'm not totally useless in the condition I'm in :o :)


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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