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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:04 am 
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Romeo wrote:
tinydancer, your post made me laugh so hard I almost pee'd my pants. Gosh it's good to have you back, Bud!!

no_boop, you run Firefox? I run IE6 without any hic



FIrefox has been good to me mostly, just think I need to disable the auto-update checking crap. Plus I'm using a Mac.


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:40 am 
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rca1004 wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
A lot had to do with coworkers I've found, from the time I worked and lived on ships. I couldn't wait to pack my bags and tear outta the port. All guys mostly, but some ships were a big dysfunctional family.


Hey boop, great job on managing the pain meds! Sounds like your head is in the right place and you are using them responsibly, and learning to "deal" with pain. Keep it up! :D
BTW, I also worked / lived on ships for many years! Sounds like we worked on different kinds of ships, but a ship is a ship! I was fortunate to work as an entertainer on luxury liners, so pretty easy life, saw most of the world, anyplace with a port that is. I was out of the States most of the time, so I feel like that experience really helped me form more of a "world view". I was shocked to learn how much of our news is "propaganda" , and how truly isolationist and out of touch with the rest of the world most of the USA seems to be (or I was at least!). It was an "eye opening" experience for me. Did you get to see many places, or were you on a set itinerary or anchored/ docked in one area? Also, I lived in Europe for awhile. I am really grateful though to be an American citizen. Although "nobody is perfect", we do live in the land of plenty, and although opportunities here are not always as "equal" as they should be, I believe there is more opportunity here than in most places. I always tell my kids just to be grateful they were born where they were born- luck of the draw! I have seen some extremely beautiful, wealthy, well organized places, and also some tragic, desperately impoverished areas. It was always disturbing to me to get back on the ship and all the 'luxury' and just "sail away" with out helping some how. I have a government job right now, and feel drawn/ called to additional public service, especially in areas that benefit children and / or teach non-violent conflict resolution. Sorry to have kinda went off on a tangent here;
rca


I was in a union, and worked the "Great Lakes and Inland Waters" division. I did some tugboat and barge work, but mostly worked on the Lake Freighters (think "the Edmund Fitzgerald"). Some were very large, 1000 footers the called them. We had nice cabins too. Same union had what they called "Deep Sea" and "Military Sealift" divisions. They also crewed some luxury liners such as the ones you worked on, but they had a sweetheart contract with them and the pay was very sub par. Plus it was forbidden for crew to mingle with guests or even non ship operational staff (such as yourself, food servers, etc), so seemed to me they were made to feel like subhumans almost, because of the rules, and had to keep to their own quarters and work related areas. Best paying jobs were doing what I did, which was mostly industrial-related. I was able to save lots of money since I had no bills, three hots and a cot, and was paid well. I kept my belongings in a storage unit while out to sea, and rented rooms on a temp basis while on leave. We hauled iron ore to steel mills, coal to power plants, other assorted industrial aggregates, road salt, etc. It was hard work because the runs were generally short, sometimes loading and unloading the ship on the same day, others were a few or more days (which were like weekends off, since we just did maintenance related stuff at an easy pace, even though we worked 7 days a week), like say, a run from Duluth, Minnesota, to Buffalo, NY. Mainly I worked in the engine room as an engineer's assistant, but also as a deckhand sometimes.

I had some friends who did the deep sea runs and described some horrible conditions in parts of the world, such as you related. Sometimes they'd do humanitarian runs on the way back from a payload run, then before leaving to return, clean out and fill the cargo holds with fresh water, and take it to poor villages in places like India, where desperation ruled the days and things were so squalid, that little girls would come running to the ship offering to prostitute themselves, even just for a bar of soap. From the telling, nobody took advantage of them to my friends' knowledge, as if any closet pedophiles were lurking aboard, they probably would have been tossed overboard with some weight on their feet while deep sea, by other crew members with children back home.

It sounds like somewhat of a glamorous life you had, working as an entertainer on luxury ships! Although what you do now sounds very rewarding in a different, and perhaps even better way. I've never been to Europe btw. Had opportunities to go with my mother to Europe and Asia on business trips, but I declined, I'd have been too tempted to go out and explore the less traveled roads while there, which would have worried her, and maybe ended up doing things that horrified her (haha) if she found out--"you could have been killed!".

rca1004 wrote:
I like "talking" to you, and am always interested to hear what you have to say! :D



The feeling is mutual :)


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:06 am 
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Well today was a tad unnerving.

Severe thunderstorms rolled through early in the afternoon, and the power went out. It was just restored recently. As I mentioned yesterday, I had just went grocery shopping and spent a lot, and much of it was perishables in the fridge and freezer, so was not happy about that especially. I didn't open the fridge though during the outage, and everything is okay, it was still all chilled. I guess after 24 hours one has to start worrying, even if they don't open the fridge at all after the outage. I was actually just getting caught up on new posts too, and getting ready to write a few replies when it went out. I didn't use smartphone either to get on Internet, as I wanted to conserve the batteries just in case it was a long wait.

They make little hand crank generators that one can use to charge a phone up some, I might invest in one of those just in case of a more serious outage (although if REALLY serious, cell towers would likely be down too). Can't get a gas or propane generator to power the fridge and whatnot, because of living in an apt, let along store a lot of highly flammable fuel in an enclosed space. Which adds another unnerving element to worst case scenarios. I have a stock of canned non perishables stuff on shelves in my storage close, that isn't all that appetizing to me (not much out of a can is), but enough to survive on for about a week, and some water 'purification' tablets (there is a river nearby, pouring through a coffee filter and adding the tablets would make it safe enough to drink (without having to worry about e. coli, and other nasties) but don't advertise the fact. I'm all about sharing to help others if I can, but if it comes down to essential survival with a huge failure of the power grid, an urban environment likely wouldn't always be pleasant and neighborly, and could imagine armed packs attempting raids on residences after the prime retail places have been picked clean from looting.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:03 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

Hahaha! Good ideas. And an image of something like Elvis, shortly before he died on the toilet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FPb2yN5Xm8

(I know, I'm rotten to the core :lol: )

BTW, banana and peanut butter sandwiches (one of Elvis's dietary mainstays) are good while detoxing, banana potassium for electrolytes, peanut butter for protein. (somebody, please stop me).


No, no! Please don't stop! You are hilarious, and helping me produce "laughing endorphins" and I need all the help I can get!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:15 am 
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rca1004 wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

Hahaha! Good ideas. And an image of something like Elvis, shortly before he died on the toilet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FPb2yN5Xm8

(I know, I'm rotten to the core :lol: )

BTW, banana and peanut butter sandwiches (one of Elvis's dietary mainstays) are good while detoxing, banana potassium for electrolytes, peanut butter for protein. (somebody, please stop me).


No, no! Please don't stop! You are hilarious, and helping me produce "laughing endorphins" and I need all the help I can get!! :D


Aw. You've tickled my funny bone many a time too :) The compare and contrast thing with the happy, beaming mother-to-be and a sick junkie was funny in-and-of itself!


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:18 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
rca1004 wrote:

I had some friends who did the deep sea runs and described some horrible conditions in parts of the world, such as you related. Sometimes they'd do humanitarian runs on the way back from a payload run, then before leaving to return, clean out and fill the cargo holds with fresh water, and take it to poor villages in places like India, where desperation ruled the days and things were so squalid, that little girls would come running to the ship offering to prostitute themselves, even just for a bar of soap.

It sounds like somewhat of a glamorous life you had, working as an entertainer on luxury ships! Although what you do now sounds very rewarding in a different, and perhaps even better way.



Yes, India was probably one of the most disturbing, otherworldly places I visited. Big contrast there between the wealthy and poor, with many living on the street. I saw mothers trying to give their babies away to passengers. Just imagine how desperate a mother must be to do that? And also, saw "handicapped' children begging, who were most likely purposely hurt so they would be more "tragic" and get more money for whoever they were begging for. Also, young children lugging around babies, again to get sympathy from tourists and more money. Truly sad and overwhelming. In some places in Africa I was almost mobbed when trying to give out a few dollars. And a few dollars here and there is less than drops in the ocean. The governments have to change, and THAT is even more sad and overwhelming, but to do "nothing" I think is not an option. Yes, my current job is far more rewarding than singing and dancing for the wealthy, but I would like to do even more in the future. What is that quote, something about "evil thriving when good men do nothing?" It is often applied to Hitler and the Holocaust?


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:22 pm 
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wow, that's rough. how are you doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:27 pm 
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I thought he liked them with mayo too, fuckin yuck, but I don't like mayo, too white and creamy for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:38 pm 
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I think I may have threw up a lil.........


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:58 pm 
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trainer14 wrote:
I think I may have threw up a lil.........


LOL, neither of us got into the Elvis sandwich bacon ingredient as well (*listens by Trainer's bathroom door for retching sounds*). Don't want to give people false info about diet and detoxing, that will clog their arteries. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:05 pm 
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dirtyblonde wrote:
I thought he liked them with mayo too, fuckin yuck, but I don't like mayo, too white and creamy for me.



I don't care for it much either. I do like sour cream with certain things though, mostly Mexican food. I'll be eating a lot of low prep food for awhile with the arm out of commission, like frozen bean and cheese burritos. Microwave gourmet be me, without the galloping. If I eat out, it will have to be finger food like sandwiches unless I want to make an embarrassment out of myself, still clumsy with the fork in left hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:13 pm 
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dirtyblonde wrote:
wow, that's rough. how are you doing.


Been better, been worse. Managing, I guess. I think I've aged more over the past year than I have in previous few though. How about you? You mentioned going in to see your pcp to get checked out. I crossed my fingers for you, that it is just early onset of PAWs or something else that's not all that serious, (even though PAWs is no fun, if that's all it is, at least your getting it over with now and not getting hit by a surprise months down the road.)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:36 pm 
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rca1004 wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
rca1004 wrote:

I had some friends who did the deep sea runs and described some horrible conditions in parts of the world, such as you related. Sometimes they'd do humanitarian runs on the way back from a payload run, then before leaving to return, clean out and fill the cargo holds with fresh water, and take it to poor villages in places like India, where desperation ruled the days and things were so squalid, that little girls would come running to the ship offering to prostitute themselves, even just for a bar of soap.

It sounds like somewhat of a glamorous life you had, working as an entertainer on luxury ships! Although what you do now sounds very rewarding in a different, and perhaps even better way.



Yes, India was probably one of the most disturbing, otherworldly places I visited. Big contrast there between the wealthy and poor, with many living on the street. I saw mothers trying to give their babies away to passengers. Just imagine how desperate a mother must be to do that? And also, saw "handicapped' children begging, who were most likely purposely hurt so they would be more "tragic" and get more money for whoever they were begging for. Also, young children lugging around babies, again to get sympathy from tourists and more money. Truly sad and overwhelming. In some places in Africa I was almost mobbed when trying to give out a few dollars. And a few dollars here and there is less than drops in the ocean. The governments have to change, and THAT is even more sad and overwhelming, but to do "nothing" I think is not an option. Yes, my current job is far more rewarding than singing and dancing for the wealthy, but I would like to do even more in the future. What is that quote, something about "evil thriving when good men do nothing?" It is often applied to Hitler and the Holocaust?


Yeah, impression I get about India, is the caste system is still very much in place even though its ostensibly a democracy.

I think you're right about "evil thriving" quote. And then there is pastor Martin Niemöller's famous statement that ends with, "Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." My father's side of the family barely escaped that madness, it would have either been a concentration camp or a gulag, having been originally in Estonia, with the Nazis and Soviet fighting over the Baltic States. Although my Grandfather wasn't Jewish, Nazis had a weird system pertaining to "percentage" of Jewish ancestors. And he was a patriot, so if not the concentration camp, it would have been a Soviet gulag. They were well off, and arrived here with nothing. But some bribes and good luck got them to a refugee camp and eventually Ellis Island. I was told for awhile they hid in the woods and would sneak up at night to areas outside the perimeter of soldier's encampments, and pick through their garbage for food scraps--risky business.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:20 am 
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(Hey, tried to delete somthing but couldn't figure out how- too stupid! Sorry :)


Last edited by rca1004 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:53 am 
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You're up early, rca. I would have been up anyways, but have to leave soon to see my doc--last time getting a sub script, and I'll only be getting one 2 mg pill (should end up w/ leftovers).

I was a militant athiest who found God in 12 step, and it saved my life. But 'God's' just a name that's easy to get hung up on, I have no idea who I'm really praying to, I figure Allah, Zeus, Yahweh, The Creator, etc, are equally good names.

The Creator is not an idea in my head, he's a felt presence in my heart. If you come from a place of brokenness (I.e. insane addiction) like I did, and want and need God ( like I did), you'll find him, and have no doubt at all that he exists. Can't prove it in a scientific sense, but it's telling how many scientists believe in God.

But you have to find your own path in recovery, and what ever keeps you clean and sober is awesome.

-- JI

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"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:55 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
Yeah, impression I get about India, is the caste system is still very much in place even though its ostensibly a democracy.

I think you're right about "evil thriving" quote. And then there is pastor Martin Niemöller's famous statement that ends with, "Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." My father's side of the family barely escaped that madness, it would have either been a concentration camp or a gulag, having been originally in Estonia, with the Nazis and Soviet fighting over the Baltic States. Although my Grandfather wasn't Jewish, Nazis had a weird system pertaining to "percentage" of Jewish ancestors. And he was a patriot, so if not the concentration camp, it would have been a Soviet gulag. They were well off, and arrived here with nothing. But some bribes and good luck got them to a refugee camp and eventually Ellis Island. I was told for awhile they hid in the woods and would sneak up at night to areas outside the perimeter of soldier's encampments, and pick through their garbage for food scraps--risky business.


Yes, absolutely, although the "cast" system is not "officially" the policy, it seemed to me that it was still pretty much ingrained in the "unwritten rules" of the society.

That Niemöller quote gave me the shivers. Very powerful, thank you for reminding me of it. My mother's side was all from the Ukraine as well. That is interesting about your Grandfather; thank God he escaped in time, huh? I have read many memoirs from, and also met a couple of people who survived the Natzi concentration camps. Reflecting on THAT certainly puts the "suffering" involved in detox into perspective, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:00 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
You're up early, rca. I would have been up anyways, but have to leave soon to see my doc--last time getting a sub script, and I'll only be getting one 2 mg pill (should end up w/ leftovers).

I was a militant athiest who found God in 12 step, and it saved my life. But 'God's' just a name that's easy to get hung up on, I have no idea who I'm really praying to, I figure Allah, Zeus, Yahweh, The Creator, etc, are equally good names.

The Creator is not an idea in my head, he's a felt presence in my heart. If you come from a place of brokenness (I.e. insane addiction) like I did, and want and need God ( like I did), you'll find him, and have no doubt at all that he exists. Can't prove it in a scientific sense, but it's telling how many scientists believe in God.

But you have to find your own path in recovery, and what ever keeps you clean and sober is awesome.

-- JI


Hey JI, yes that little she ( or is it he? ha ha) devil "sleep" jumps out of bed quite early lately! I absolutely 100% agree that God is also "within" us, and I also feel His presence strongly, especially since getting lower on suboxone, I can "feel" the Spirit of God again in my life. The points I made to Boop are only a fraction of the foundation of my faith. Since he mentioned no "proof", I was just giving my thoughts on that aspect. Yes, I agree on the point about "scientist believing in God". I think the more we "learn" about how the universe works, the more "miraculous" it is. I do not see a conflict between "science" and "spirituality" at all.
Congrats on that last appointment!! A real milestone- Good for you!!! I am proud of you! :D
rca (aka Mom- ha ha)


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:38 am 
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BTW rca in my last post I was on a soapbox and using 'you' in a collective sense, not personally.

On another note, I just left my addiction doc, who told me that there are new discussions in the medical literature about Sub withdrawal; where doctors once believed that it was generally painless to come off of, there is growing clinical evidence about the difficulty of tapering even at very low dose levels (no sh*t Sh*rlock!).

I hope that people coming off of Subs in the future will have a clearer awareness of what's involved, and have a chance to be more prepared before they start their taper.


-- JI

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"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:20 am 
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Interesting. When I first went to the sub clinic, I was paired up with a different doctor. He was a great guyand I liked him alot. Anyway, I asked him about wds when I stopped the sub and he said tthere weren't any. I at the time was thrilled to hear that. Little did I, nor alot of doctors, know what was in store for those of us who quit or tapered off.

My current doctor was a bit more in tune with the drug and its wd process. She replaced the dr I was seeing. He quit the practice to start his own family medicine practice. She was straight up honest withme and told me I would experience wds although she said they were milder than wd from oxy or the like.

I would never want to go through sub wd again. Although it was somewhat of a thunderstorm versus a hurricane, it sucked nonetheless. So glad I got through it. Whew.....


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6, jump from 2mg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:33 pm 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
BTW rca in my last post I was on a soapbox and using 'you' in a collective sense, not personally.

On another note, I just left my addiction doc, who told me that there are new discussions in the medical literature about Sub withdrawal; where doctors once believed that it was generally painless to come off of, there is growing clinical evidence about the difficulty of tapering even at very low dose levels (no sh*t Sh*rlock!).

I hope that people coming off of Subs in the future will have a clearer awareness of what's involved, and have a chance to be more prepared before they start their taper.


-- JI

Hey Ji, I didn't take it "personally" at all (not that sensitive I guess, ha ha ha), just replying with my thoughts is all.
When I was reading ^^^^, before I got to your (no shit sherlock), I was thinking to myself, (OH, YA THINK???) My God, you'd have thought that "someone" would have more thoroughly researched effects and withdrawals before releasing this substance onto the market. Now, I know it can be a "life savor" and that is WONDERFUL, but I think the "consumers" deserved to have been made more fully aware up to this point, before making the choice. "Even" drug addicts deserve to be treated with respect, KWIM?? K, getting off "my" soap box now! lol


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