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 Post subject: Day 11: Discouraged
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:00 pm 
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It is now day 11 clean of Suboxone, and I must say that I am discouraged. I have an original post entitled "Clonidine is the key to a successful jump," but since this one is entirely of a different nature, I figured I would start a new one in the hopes that someone who has been to this point and beyond might have something encouraging to tell me. I cried all night last night, and I'm not really the type of guy that cries easily or often. I'm not hard around the edges or a cold person, but still not a crier. But last night it all came to a head and I was consumed with this overwhelming feeling that this is how it's going to be from now on. I wept for my decisions in the past and I wept for the loss of my essence as a human being. I'm not really in physical pain, aside from the occasional headache, but the overwhelming emotional grief that's beset me is astonishing. I feel that a close friend has died, or even a family member. It feels like there is a gaping void in my soul that only cold wind pierces. I've made the jump before, and successfully for 14 days, but last time, once the Suboxone was gone, the cravings were outrageous. This time, the only outrageous craving is peace: not drugs, not Suboxone, not euphoria, but simply peace. And then to think that it takes 1 to 3 months before you feel like yourself again is not a statistic that's on my side. I say again, what's three months compared to a lifetime of independence from Suboxone, but yet again, when you're living with it every day and experiencing this grief that is only akin to heartache, every minute seems like 30 minutes. There aren't very many inspirational stories out there of quitters of Suboxone, and I just want to know if what I'm feeling is normal and if I will ever EVER be "me" again. Much thanks for reading...


--Juan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Juan,

Day 10 off of Suboxone was my breaking point. I cried like a baby too. It all just came to a head that day and I didn't think I could take anymore either. The pain of wd, all the memories and guilt that came flying back into my head were just too much for me and I broke completely on day 10. I had lost all hope of EVER feeling like a normal person again and I was ready to give up. I was physically, mentally and spiritually wrecked.

That morning, of day 10, I went upstairs to talk to my wife about me being at the end of my rope. I remember begging her to kill me because I was so fucking desperate for the pain to go away. I cried so hard and so loud that I woke our 12 year old daughter up and she came running into the room, she was crying too because she had heard everything I said to my wife.

Somehow, after crying and getting it all out, I felt just better....just enough to keep pushing on for another day.

Today, I'm 1 year, 4 months and 1 day off of Suboxone and I'm here to tell you that it gets better. It takes time. For some of us, it takes a while, but you will feel better.

You are NOT alone Juan.

Try to do anything you can to keep your mind occupied. Sitting around is the absolute worst thing you can do. Sitting around lets you focus on how completely shitty you feel. You MUST get out of your head.

Keep posting. Keep sharing. Every little bit will help you.

What you're going through right now is NOT unique to you. Many of us who have come off of Suboxone have felt EXACTLY what you're feeling now, it's normal......it SUCKS ass, but it's normal.

Hang tight, man!!

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 Post subject: Re: Day 11: Discouraged
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:36 pm 
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jcb1981 wrote:
It is now day 11 clean of Suboxone, and I must say that I am discouraged. I have an original post entitled "Clonidine is the key to a successful jump," but since this one is entirely of a different nature, I figured I would start a new one in the hopes that someone who has been to this point and beyond might have something encouraging to tell me. I cried all night last night, and I'm not really the type of guy that cries easily or often. I'm not hard around the edges or a cold person, but still not a crier. But last night it all came to a head and I was consumed with this overwhelming feeling that this is how it's going to be from now on. I wept for my decisions in the past and I wept for the loss of my essence as a human being. I'm not really in physical pain, aside from the occasional headache, but the overwhelming emotional grief that's beset me is astonishing. I feel that a close friend has died, or even a family member. It feels like there is a gaping void in my soul that only cold wind pierces. I've made the jump before, and successfully for 14 days, but last time, once the Suboxone was gone, the cravings were outrageous. This time, the only outrageous craving is peace: not drugs, not Suboxone, not euphoria, but simply peace. And then to think that it takes 1 to 3 months before you feel like yourself again is not a statistic that's on my side. I say again, what's three months compared to a lifetime of independence from Suboxone, but yet again, when you're living with it every day and experiencing this grief that is only akin to heartache, every minute seems like 30 minutes. There aren't very many inspirational stories out there of quitters of Suboxone, and I just want to know if what I'm feeling is normal and if I will ever EVER be "me" again. Much thanks for reading...




--Juan


Dude, you will feel better soon! I completely understand where you are coming from and have gone through many of the same emotions. I wish I could give you a hug, but I can't, so here's a virtual one:

((HUG))!!!

I just jumped off Sub myself and tomorrow night will be three weeks. However, I completely respected/understood how powerful the w/d and mental crap could be, so I tapered to 1/16 before jumping. I am so happy because I avoided most of the mental darkness, but I'm still having to fight back. I was on Sub nearly 6 years, at doses of 32 mg at the highest. That's a lot of Sub for a long time. Still, there is zero evidence that Suboxone damages the brain in any permanent way. Our brains are sluggish and trying to figure out how to operate with a chemical we've made available for years. Your body is going to throw symptoms at you to try to convince you that you need Sub again. I actually started Bupe for pain and not addiction, but I've had days where it feels to me like there's something missing. It's the Suboxone! Sometimes, I feel a little aching hole where the Suboxone used to be.

We have to check our emotions and not let them take us over. I don't know what you are doing to help yourself out, but what helps me is distraction. I go out and do something...anything! Just go somewhere. I run pretty much everyday outside (gym doesn't do the same thing for me). I take liquid vitamins. I drink a boatload of water. I started looking up recipes and trying new ones. I read, read, read. I choose an area of my house and organize it. Distraction is fantastic, and perseverating on not feeling great is counterproductive. I also try to imagine that each day off Sub is a building block and I'm stacking these blocks to get back to 100% normal. Everyday I complete is one less day standing between me and the end. This is all the same for you. You just have to figure out what helps you in particular.

I can't tell you a magic formula or how long you will be struggling for, but I can encourage you to tell your negative thoughts to shut up. Get outside your head. And don't start waiting to feel better. Start doing something.....anything....positive and you will begin to feel better a little at a time. If you make today a meaningful day in some way, tomorrow you will wake up and the memory of the day before will motivate and comfort you.

((HUGS)) again!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Hi Juan,
Last year I jumped from 2mg Sub. Physically, I wasn't too bad, but on day 10 I was face down on my bed crying like I can't even describe. It was like my life was over. I ended up peeling myself up to drag myself sobbing to my doctor to get more Sub. My husband, who had wanted me to go off Sub, wanted me to go back on because he was so fucking scared.

I know that doesn't sound very comforting, but I know now from reading a lot of other stories here (stories like grown men having to leave work to go outside and cry) that it DOES get better. In fact, some people say that the emotional breakdown is a turning point in their WD and a couple of days later they start feeling better mentally and physically.

This time I'm doing it different. I am tapering down to 0.25 mg before I jump off. I did do a huge drop (unplanned) from 4 mg to 0.5 mg, and I had an emotional meltdown around day 8, but it wasn't as bad and it didn't last as long, only about 3 hours.

So if it gives you any comfort knowing this is normal you can probably tough it out. If it is really debilitating and isn't getting better I would consider going on a very low dose (like 1 mg or less) and tapering off. (I didn't see your other post, so I'm not sure if you tapered). Also, many people even without a prior history of depression have had to go on antidepressants for a while after coming off of Sub. If it continues, please don't suffer in silence, reach out for help.
And keep posting. Let us know how you are.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Hi guys am new here. I've already posted my experience thus far but haven't got any responses yet which is fine.

Anyway am also a little worried too about Subutex/Suboxone. I still feel mentally am in a sub-fog, though I feel better on the low doses and am currently on a low dose (0.6) too. Am tapering down slow as I can..I've had no major symptoms other then a little boredom but that is always rectified by excercise. I have always worked out since Ive been on subutex maitenance and before too. I believe that was a key factor in me getting so low without any extreme withdrawls. Hell I even get a decent a night's sleep.

My concern is since I've been on sub for almost 6 years that it may have altered my brain to some degree. I would have been much happier if I was feeling some emotions and clearity, but instead I feel as though am still on a meduim dose, though I still stress I feel better on these lower doses then I did on high doses. My highest dose was between 8mg and 12mg. During the last 3 years its really been about low doses between 4mg-1mg.

I also keep hearing stories of long paws and withdrawals even when one has tapered really slowly and jumped from a tiny dose. I also haven't see concret studies of brain damage and/or long term affects of long term sub use but lets not beat about the bush its only within the last 10 years people have been taking sub for years so really there havent been any studies done, we could be the so called guinea pigs? in the past I dont belive there were so many people on sub for the long term and also there wasnt sub in high doses such as 4mg and over. It was more or less Temgesics (0.2). Its also within the last 10 years or so people have been getting off sub and complaining for long drawn out paws/wds. I can understand people having a life which is not good and that can reflect paws but am only human and have a right to be a little cynical about this...I have yet to see anybody who has been taking sub for long term quit and stay clean for a year or 2 and comfortably too. Am talking about outside the Internet..Believe me I wish there could be more successful stories then negative ones...

But like I said am stll on sub and am tapering slowly and am doing everything I can to be i nthe right frame of mind and shape when I jump off sub..Its jus that its disheartning heart stories of long paws/wds even after a slow wean and jumping off from a small dose...Am also worried personally about this sub fog am in, I really believed by now I would gotten some clearity considering am on a small dose..But I believe my 5-6 years stay on sub has contributed to that...Mind you I have no cravings and I wasnt even on opiates for so long...Well lets see what happens.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Juan-

I am on Day 7 of my suboxone withdrawal, so I'm just a few days behind you. I find myself get better physically each day, but the depression has been striking me at the worst times ! I hope what I do will help you in your road to freedom !

Everytime drepressing emotions come into your head, counter act it with a happy memory !

For example, I was on my way to work today and started thinking about how much time I have lost trying to get high rather than playing with my own son and daughter ! Yeah, that hurt ! I am not numb from opiates, so I really felt this ! So , before I let this emotion control me all day, I counter act it with a happy/funny memory or thought ! I remembered the time in college where one of my frat brothers removed the door handle from my bedroom so I couldn't lock or unlock it, then made a treause map of where I could find the door handle. Thats not all....... he put the treasure map at the bottom of a small box and took a dump in the box ! THEN ........ HE ACTUALLY WENT AND PAID FOR POSTAGE AND MAILED IT TO ME !!! He lived next door ! As gross as that was, I couldn't stop laughing ! It reminded me of a time where I was free from this addiction ! It reminded me that I wasn't always dependant on opiates and that I had some good times while not on opiates !

Maybe it will work for you. Remind yourself that you were once "NORMAL"( whatever that is ) and didn't take anything and got by just fine and had some of the best memories from being sober !


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 Post subject: Re: Day 11: Discouraged
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:49 pm 
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jcb1981 wrote:
It is now day 11 clean of Suboxone, and I must say that I am discouraged. I have an original post entitled "Clonidine is the key to a successful jump," but since this one is entirely of a different nature, I figured I would start a new one in the hopes that someone who has been to this point and beyond might have something encouraging to tell me. I cried all night last night, and I'm not really the type of guy that cries easily or often. I'm not hard around the edges or a cold person, but still not a crier. But last night it all came to a head and I was consumed with this overwhelming feeling that this is how it's going to be from now on. I wept for my decisions in the past and I wept for the loss of my essence as a human being. I'm not really in physical pain, aside from the occasional headache, but the overwhelming emotional grief that's beset me is astonishing. I feel that a close friend has died, or even a family member. It feels like there is a gaping void in my soul that only cold wind pierces. I've made the jump before, and successfully for 14 days, but last time, once the Suboxone was gone, the cravings were outrageous. This time, the only outrageous craving is peace: not drugs, not Suboxone, not euphoria, but simply peace. And then to think that it takes 1 to 3 months before you feel like yourself again is not a statistic that's on my side. I say again, what's three months compared to a lifetime of independence from Suboxone, but yet again, when you're living with it every day and experiencing this grief that is only akin to heartache, every minute seems like 30 minutes. There aren't very many inspirational stories out there of quitters of Suboxone, and I just want to know if what I'm feeling is normal and if I will ever EVER be "me" again. Much thanks for reading...


--Juan



Hi. I am so sorry to hear that you are discouraged, however this is normal. It is difficult to come off opiates of any kind and experience life all over again-without anything to numb it out, or act as a "veil". The crushing depression is the worst side effect for me, so I went to the doc and got on an anti-dep. IT HELPED TREMENDOUSLY and the anxiety went down big time too. You can take it a step at a time and dont beat yourself up for needing to possibly consider and AD to help. Your soul is weeping and it NEEDS to-all these years of built up CRAP we haven't really cleansed ourselves, so if you can change your perspective on it and say that you are cleansing, that the deep, dark sadness has a good side, then you are on the road to recovery.

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Hey JCB….like others have said you need to keep yourself busy, period. I’m on day 24 of no suboxone so I’m just slightly ahead of you. So just like others, I know exactly what you’re going through. Day 10 was just about my turning point so your right around the corner bro. Don’t get me wrong it’s still painful afterward, but it does get better.

I know a lot of people use the phrase ‘one day at a time’ I’ll be honest with you man, I NEVER really knew what that term meant until NOW. You literally need to take one day at a time. You’re probably on point with 1-3 months to be honest. I thought I would be perfectly fine in one month but that’s not going to happen. I’m doing good but it’s still going to be time. I’m not trying to discourage you but rather be real. But again it gets WAAAAAAAY better than where you’re at right now.

I’ll be honest this forum was HUGE for me. I just poured my thoughts out on ‘paper’ and felt much better. I would suggest doing the same. No one is here to judge you.

Keep up the good work. When you look back in a month from now you will be sooo happy with yourself!


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 Post subject: exercise can help
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:20 pm 
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Hey JCB/Juan--I'm sorry to hear you're so miserable....I too have experienced the kind of depression that feels like terrible grief--I know it is very very difficult. For me, a big problem is that i seem to lose my perspective when I'm really depressed--it's hard to believe that I won't always feel that way. But...it never does last forever! At this point I think it is important for you to do some things that allow you to feel some joy. Whatever that may be for you... and...like others have said, distracting yourself by keeping busy as much as you can should help. For me, creative projects that require concentration can help me get out of my head. the biggest problem I have though is getting started! Another thing to remember is that physical exercise really can help alleviate depression. Some kinds of exercise like running or swimming laps can get you into a kind of meditative mental state and the physical exercise can help you produce endorphins which can really help your mood. Eating well and getting enough rest (though NOT oversleeping) can be really helpful in combating depression too. You probably know all this already but I hope the reminder might help you get started or help you continue to try to do these things.

Also, I noticed you said that there aren't many inspirational stories about people quitting sub. Have you looked at a lot of the threads on this forum? I feel like there are a lot of people who've posted about how they got through sub withdrawal and gone on to feel very happy. But it certainly is true that it can take some time to get over the depression that is so common to opiate withdrawal. I too think that if you don't start feeling better soon you may want to consider trying anti-depressant medication.

I hope you will feel a lot better soon--I wish I could do or say something that would really help. At least I can say that I deeply sympathize with your pain. I know it can be so hard to remember that it is something you are going through and that it is pretty much par for the course with the withdrawal process and it will pass...but try to keep telling yourself that....but at the same time, try to do the things that may help, even if you have to force yourself--some exercise, distractions, etc. And I hoep you will post again to let us know how you're doing.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Hi, all!

Today is day 12 of this ordeal, which has me constantly thinking about time. The time seems to creep by so slowly when you don't feel well, doesn't it?

ROMEO, I appreciated your message quite a bit, and it gave me hope to know that some of what I am going through is absolutely normal. You did say that sitting around makes things worse, and while I agree with that wholeheartedly, I will tell you this: going out of the house and walking or exerting myself leaves me extremely depressed about my situation and makes me very fatigued. I came off Suboxone for 14 days once a long time ago but found that the opposite was true in that case: walking was the only thing that made me feel better. The difference between this time and last time is that this time I'm not craving drugs or Suboxone. Last time I wasn't mentally there and I made the jump in a stupid way and without a doctor's supervision. The cravings were more than I could bare last time and I went back on Suboxone. I wonder if since I was craving opiates at that time it made my body feel good to feel the endorphins released from walking, as opposed to this time. It's worth thinking about.

LADDERTIPPER, thank you for the virtual hug. I feel your sincerity through the wires of this Internet connection. I like your "building blocks" analogy a lot because I can relate to it a lot. Each day that passes has a new-found appreciation because it's one more day without my orange nemesis. It seems like you concur with most everyone else that distraction, distraction, distraction is the key to overcoming this mental anguish. But like I said to Romeo, I can only go so far before I have to sit down. Pushing myself even harder seems to make things worse. I always end up in tears when I do that, as opposed to taking it easy. But I will agree that the mind does turn to dark places when it has the time to marinate on what is wrong in this life.

LILLYVAL, your post helped me a great deal. Knowing that there are other, tougher men than me who are breaking down as I did the night of day 10 makes me feel a lot better about my symptoms. Suboxone withdrawal has such a way of breaking you in that its physical withdrawal symptoms don't seem to last that long (as long as you have Clonidine handy) but the mental part constantly tells you that this is your life from now on: that this is what it's like to live off of opiates. I also made the jump from .25 mg and I'm unclear about whether or not you've jumped yet or not, but please ask your doctor to prescribe you Clonidine. I take 0.2 mg in the morning and in the afternoon and take 0.4 mg in the evening before bed. It's non-addictive and has, I think, made this process so much easier for me. I can definitely tell a difference when I don't take it. I have a strong willpower, which also comes with an obsessive personality, and thus this withdrawal, mentally, has enslaved me in a way.

REDEMPTION, buprenorphine is an extremely potent drug. The levels given to us to alleve our addictions or ease our chronic pain are, to me, almost absurd. I believe I read somewhere that buprenorphine is some 20 times more potent than morphine in that it binds so tightly to the opioid receptors in the brain as to disallow any other form of opiate from getting in. So, if you had a set of keys and a locked door, the door being your receptor and the keys being various forms of opiates, your master key would be buprenorphine. It would always trump the other keys. Even at such low doses as you're taking, you are probably surpassing what would be considered a proper dose administered for pain in a non-opioid-dependent patient seeking relief from some trauma. Also, the medication has a ceiling effect, which means that once a certain amount is in your system, your receptors cannot take any more. That may have some indication as to why you still feel alright after going from such a high dose to such a low dose. But, then again, I am not a doctor and everything I'm saying could be bullshit, but from my research, that is what I've found.

RYKAT82, I do a similar thing to you when I start to feel blue. I either repeat to myself--even out loud--or say repeatedly in my head, "You don't feel that bad, you don't feel that bad," or I'll say, "Let it go, let it go, let it go." I do also tell myself, "You weren't born dependent on buprenorphine; you can once again live without it." Thank you for the advice and the humorous, disgusting story. LOL

JENZO, I think you said it best in your short post: "It is difficult to come off opiates of any kind and experience life all over again-without anything to numb it out, or act as a 'veil.'" I feel like I'm starting all over again without my blankie. I feel vulnerable, open and exposed to the world around me, whereas before, those feelings seemed to subside after taking my daily dose of Suboxone. The antidepressant properties of Suboxone are incredible in that sense. I am actually already on TWO antidepressants and have been for some time: Paxil and Wellbutrin. I think they've come in handy this time around indeed.

SUBSTATION, thank you so much for sharing that with me, and I'm glad you kept it real for me. You confirmed what I've already suspected (that it might take over a month to be "normal" again), but you also gave me hope by saying that it gets way better than day 10. Thank you so much for that, and I do plan on staying active on the forums. Do you go to NA or AA?

AUTONONYMOUS, I will have to research deeper into this forum to find the stories that you speak of. I'm glad you told me of their existence. It's nice to know that someone can relate to what I can only call "grief." It feels like a very important part or person in my life has died, which is why I chant to myself in those times, "Let it go, let it go, let it go." About staying busy: if you read any of what I've written previously in this post, you'll find that staying busy is the hardest part to grasp in this situation. I get fatigued so damn easily lately that even when I do the things I love to do (play my guitar, go to the book store, etc.), I get so GD tired that I literally have to sit wherever I am for a while. I was in the grocery store the other day in the cold foods aisle, which I would normally steer clear of during withdrawal due to cold chills, and I had to just sit on the floor with my buggy right next to me. I didn't give a damn who saw me or what it looked like. I just HAD to sit, but I find that when I watch documentaries on TV that intrigue me (something I would do anyway), it does take my mind off the pain. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post!


--Juan


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:54 pm 
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Man I can totally relate. The first week or two just walking out of my house was painful. I was scared of the world, and I mean literally. I was thinking ‘how can I talk to people sober’ I was avoiding everyone I possible could because I was scared.

I was in your position 2 weeks ago pretty much to the day. I had people telling me you just need to get out and do this and that. While I totally appreciated the advice I think it’s obvious it’s just not that simple. It just happened gradual for me. I got out a little here and there and the next thing you know, you find you CAN deal with life without opiates. Don’t get me wrong I’m still struggling doing this thing called life without opiates, but looking back two weeks ago it’s night and day my friend. You just gotta want this thing so bad, like nothing you’ve ever wanted in your life. If you can learn to take things day by day, or even hour by hour, I give you my word you will be feeling better and look back and pat yourself on the back.

Listen man you need to just keep thinking about the long term when you’re hurting, that helped me a ton. I mean this is just going to be a month or two of being uncomfortable but the rest of your life is NOT going to be this way. I’m guessing your 30 (by your username) I’m only one year older then you. Seriously man we are young as shit and have our whole lives ahead of us.

If you truly want this (and sounds like you do) get mad and tackle this thing and get on with life. Don’t get me wrong post all day long about how you feel, that helps and it helped me greatly. I’m just saying take this challenge and win. Don’t let this beat you, you’re better than that bro.

Sorry if my tactics are a little crude or non specific. I just don’t think there is one thing I can say that will make you feel normal, period. I played sports my whole life and found that if you want to win, you have to WANT TO WIN. You can come up with all kinds of tactics or excuses or whatever. But in the end if you didn’t want to win that game, I promise you will not win that game. Now get out there and win the flippin game Juan


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:06 am 
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Hi Jaun,
EVERYBODY here as already given you awesome responses and I really hope YOU get some hope from them all, I know I did and still do. That being said, I can't begin to add anymore advice so I'm just going to share a couple things I went through around the 9-11 day mark as well because you are most definitely not alone Jaun. I'm not a crier either. At all. I've always been the "strong" one of all my siblings and I was the only person who did not cry at my fathers funeral in 2004. I jumped at 8mg on Aug. 20th, so I'm 40-something days out at this point... On or right around my 10th day, was a pivotal day for me, I specifically remember being awake all night, having not slept, then around 8:00am my phone beeped at me and it was a calendar notification, that day was one of my nieces birthdays. That I forgot. In that split second, emotions, that I had stuffed way down, going all the way back to 2004 came right up to the surface and I completely lost it. Like a snowball picking up more snow, I cried for 4 hours straight, the shaking, inconsolable, no stopping it whatsoever kind of crying. It scared the crap out of my boyfriend but he was wonderful and just let me ride it out. It also scared ME a little bit too and that is when I went to an urgent care clinic and got some Clonidine and a few Xanax. After that day, I spent several more days extremely emotional. TV commercials would set off crying spells, at work I'd have to excuse myself and go hide in the stairwell just to cry some more. After some days, I can't say exactly how many, that aspect of it all just sort of worked itself out and the extreme sadness, grief & guilt quickly turned into relief, happiness and sheer JOY once I realized that I was making it over the "hump" and seeing the light at the end of that deep dark tunnel. And now, as I write this, I realize, If I had tried to put these thoughts "down on paper" 3-4 weeks ago, I wouldn't have been able to. I'd be outside, in the parking garage, or hiding in my building's stairwell, sobbing. But I'm not, I'm sitting here with a grin hoping that even a teency bit of light comes your way SOON Juan. It really does get better.

-Rsj


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:44 pm 
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YUP...All these things these people are saying is true. It's a very weird feeling. Feeling like, "What the hell did I do to myself? Is this how it will always be?". I'm here to tell you....NOPE! You will gradually begin to feel like a normal person again. I would cry too except I found my mouth open screaming...but nothing would come out. It was THE ABSOLUTE WEIRDEST SHIT I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED....EVER! Right now you are at a point that you cannot see yourself passing. You WILL get past it though. Just hang in there and I PROMISE you it will get better.


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 Post subject: yo jcb! u ok?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:30 pm 
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Yo man its been 5 days since your last post, this should be about day 17 right? Hope everything is good.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Me too JCB, you've been on my mind alot lately. I hope you're doin' ok too.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:25 am 
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Hey bro--
I am feeling you dude.

Me, Substation, RSJ, Romeo--these are the guys I know a bit more about--all of us jumped at higher levels. I was at 8mg/2yrs when I jumped. It wasnt a noble jump. I had run out of pills and there was no way in hell I could taper. The one time I tried tapering I wolfed down when the going got tough. SO for me it was sort of a forced jump. But once I was out of the plane I threw away the parachute. It was one of the hardest falls ever. I posted in here and if you look at some of my posts--we are running neck and neck. I was emotional as hell Days 8-12--but my biggest issue was sleep and stomach. Today I am at nearly 2 and a half months. I feel pretty good. I still have the occasional stomach issues but am beginning to think its more an acid reflux deal that was masked by the Subs. I have a history of a deal called a spastic colon and other pleasant gastro issues. But while using Subs my colon thought it was held hostage.

Once I was off Subs my digestive tract stared coming alive--as did so many other areas that had been asleep--if ya get me! So yeah man--its a pain--but its worth it. And you can do it for sure. It does get better. For me--by Day 15 I started turning. Not a rapid turn--more like circling the airport in a storm. But the fact was I was beginning to turn. And SUb is right--for me doing things was slow and gradual. Much as my mind wanted me to "get out of here". ny body was saying--"Hell no!" So I would listen to my body--and then began to chgsallenge its resistance to doign things and soon found myself slowly getting more active. Anyway bro--you are on your way. Stay in here and post. Stay encouraged. And feel free to PM me if you like.

This group is a lifesaved for me. And it reminds me of a quote from the Jngle Books by Kipling: "The strength of the pack is the wolf; and the strength of the wolf is the pack." Stay close to the pack, bro.

brian


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Wow, I can't believe all the encouraging responses I've gotten to my original post. I'm sorry for not posting sooner.

Like the subject of this message says, I am elated about my progress but I'm still hurting, and my loved ones are getting tired of it. I have the advantage of working for my family, so they have been extremely lenient with me about work. But my partner, who has no experience with addiction or addicts, is getting weary of all this. We both just want "me" back, I suppose. I feel just empty inside: unable to offer anything to anyone. I'm one of the grateful ones that I've had enough Phenobarbital to sleep at night, but that's just not enough.

But I'm not giving this up. I'm not even craving opiates. I'm simply trying to evade my own thoughts, which always turn to what I'm now without: Suboxone.


--Juan


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:51 am 
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Good Morning Juan,

I'm Elated with your progress too! Today is day 20 for you and that's BIG. I know you're still hurting buddy but for some reason "day 21" is sticking out in my head as being right around the time I started to "turn a corner". I haven't gone back and re-read my early posts so I may be off, but when I think back, 21 is the number that comes to mind and when I think I started climbing out of my "hell hole". Look back to how days 7-12 were, you got through that, and for most, those are the worst.

I hate hearing that your loved ones are "getting tired of it". I don't want to sound mean, but damn, what you are doing right now Juan is probably one of the most difficult, monumental, life changing events EVER. And they need to understand the gravity of your extreme strength and the bravery, sheer will & determination that you possess. Unfortunately Juan there are not alot of people in this world who have been able to reach deep inside and find the inner strength to get through what you have been through in just the last 20 days. And if your loved ones can't seem to get their heads around that, then all that matters is YOU get YOUR head around that, because even though you're still hurting, you've already made a HUGE accomplishment and you need to be proud and you need to hold your head up high because you ARE a superhero.

My partner, ugh, my partner, god bless his little heart. We're going into our 4th year together, and for the entirety of our relationship, I hid my addiction from him and he had no idea I was extremely opiate dependent. He also had no idea I went to see a Sub Dr. a year ago. I thought in my little head that hey, if I can hide my addiction for 3 years and I can hide being on Subs for 10 months, I can certainly fake my way through this detox process... WRONG on all counts! I faked having the flu for the first few days and then finally had to suck it up and "have the talk" with him. He was pissed, but then after watching me stay sleepless for nights on end, writhing on the sofa and struggling through work, his attitude changed from being pissed about what I'd hid from him, to being pissed that I didn't ask him for his help from the beginning. He's had no experience with addiction or addicts either but I let him in, explained what I was doing before, gave him an education on Suboxone, but more importantly I turned these forums over to him and let him read a while, he read all of MY posts as well as other people's posts. He was blown away and one day he said to me, wow, I had no idea. I had no idea how hard you've had it and I have a whole new respect for you... BIG. And now, every time the subject comes up he tells me how proud of me he is, and our relationship now is better than ever. So I'm hoping your partner can be patient with you as well. I know we like to put others feelings and frustrations in front of our own, and alot of times live according to their expectations, but right now this is about YOU. And it's OKAY in my opinion to tell people, I'm sorry how you're feeling, but right now? This IS all about ME, deal with it. Because here soon, hopefully real soon, your loved ones and your partner are all going to really like the new & improved Juan, and realize what a huge accomplishment you've made, and you'll ALL benefit from it.

-RSJ


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Couldn’t have said it better RSJ….great that your partner was so understanding

Juan…your getting there man. I’m day 33 today and still feel somewhat ‘blah’ but waaaaaay better than a week or so ago. Hang in there man :)


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 Post subject: Re: RsjxRsj's Post
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Wow, RsjxRsj, you really know how to help someone feel better. I shared your post with my partner because it was so impacting. I must say at this point, however, that I don't FEEL accomplished. I just feel like a junkie trying to deal with life. But mostly, I just wonder if everything was always so gray before and I just didn't notice it. I had an appointment with my psychiatrist just the other day and was telling him how underestimated I feel the anti-depressant properties of Suboxone are. He said he had spoken with several other doctors who agreed with that statement. Maybe it's just opiates in general that have that effect on addictive people, but no matter what I do, I can't seem to think of much else: it's always the Suboxone. I'm still taking 0.2 mg of Clonidine in the morning and in the afternoon for withdrawal and I wonder if at times it slows me down and causes this circumscribing haze that everything is muted by. There's just no glow about the sun anymore or no radiance about the stars at night. All is...void, for lack of a better word. The ONLY word that has been continuously running through my mind this entire time is the word "void."

But posts like yours really help a lot. They remind me that this is monumental, because sometimes I get lost in all of it. I really do fear that it will always be this way for some reason. If I could re-train my mind to think otherwise, I imagine my days would go by faster and things would become easier, but I just can't seem to get over that thought: "this is how it will always be." And the main reason I feel that way is because I'm not in any physical pain aside from lack of energy, but my will is so low, and to simply exist hurts in a way.

But that goes without saying that there is some faith still inside me that this all does turn around and that the person I am will come shining through again. It's just going to take that asshole called "time" to cooperate with me. Again, thank you for your encouraging words, my friend.


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