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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:18 pm 
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So good to hear your experience, I too am day 14 no sub, and I would say the first 5-6 days for me where no fun, but it started to get better and has every day until a couple days ago, and then I started to feel worse.

Its not really dope sick feelings, its just a nagging physical discomfort, I have been trying to stop all meds so I only sleep about 4 hours a night, then just flop around and sweat. I am not sure if I should take the sleep aids, they make me feel hung over too, or just ride it out. I also feel really heavy and slow, I have made myself go for a significant bike ride every day, which does not feel good until I am done with it, I am sure its not hurting. I have very little energy and its hard to motivate to do the chores I should be doing.

I will say that I am still really upbeat and optimistic, and have been doubling up on recovery stuff too. And I want to ditto what everyone says about the music, where has it been for the last few years. I have had an iphone for a year, but just today synced it to my itunes so on my bike ride I listened to lots of my old favorites, its like I am hearing them again for the first time.

Another annoying thing is the SNEEZING, I read that its common, but its getting old. My only last complaint is I am tearing up watching stupid ass tv, and movies. I almost dropped some tears watching knocked up for the 50th time, being a temporary woman is a drag.

Anyway keep up your fight, and check in and let me know how your feeling. Tommorrow is a new day for me, anything could happen.

Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:04 am 
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For the LONGEST while, I got emotional over the silliest shit too. I'd be watching TV and some kind of.......I don't know how to say this without sounding too fruity.......heartfelt moment would happen and all of a sudden I'd get a big ole lump in my throat, my face would go all sad and my eyes would well up......EMBARASSING!!!! :oops: It's really bad when I'm sitting there watching TV with my wife or my daughter and one of those "moments" hit and it doesn't even phase them, but I'm over there looking for a Kleenex to wipe my eyes!! :lol:

Oh Well, it is what it is.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:20 am 
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YES, the sneezing is. I sneeze like 10 times in a row every hour or so. I also had some mucus like stuff coming down my throat in the first week. Took some benadryl and that helped.

I spent the first week in the tub, in front of TV. My mom and husband slept on the couch next to me watching movies. I was so thankful.

But my family is now forcing me to go into long term residential treatment. Six months or so. I haven't worked in 3-4 years. Have no motivation to do housework and I'm home all day.

I am so scared. I am leaving September 1st or 2nd. I will miss my family so bad, my husband will be waiting for me with my little one year old girl. Terrified. I'm in Chicago and I will go all the way to Southern California, Orange County.

Part of me wants to go because I know this is my chance to get better, but part of me wants to stay because I am afraid that during this time my husband will find someone new. Someone who is not an addict and a drag on the family.

I think taking so many really hot baths and showers got the suboxone out of me faster. My sub doc said that sauna is really good for getting toxins out so maybe try that out. YMCA has them and if you don't have too much income they ask you how much you can pay and they usually agree. Normally its $60 per month but I pay $20. I need to start going but my motivation is zero.

They say that getting through w/d is the easy part. its what comes after is the hard part. The reasons you started using will not go away. I think about getting high everyday. I dream about shooting dope. I feel so bad about it but can't help it. Several days ago I drank a whole bottle of cough syrup cuz I couldn't stand just being me, not being numbed out by opiates. I hate alcohol but I was drinking during w/d, a little bit because its so nasty.

Clonidine was a godsend. it took away the sweating in the middle part of my body. My hands and feet were so cold but my chest and belly were on fire. Clonidine took that away and it was easy to stop it. I took the clonidine when the hot/cold flushes were bad, which was in the first week or so. Then I took them every 12 hours and then stopped.

I didn't use any xanax or sleeping pills. They don't really work for me unless I take the whole bottle, which I have in the past, 300mg of valium in one day or 20mg of xanax plus dope. I was hopeless.

I want a normal life. To go to work. To help my family. To be productive and creative and just do my thing. Opiates made me feel comfy. I was always a fast metabolizer and had stomach issues. When I got on opiates it all stopped. My stomach was fine but I became zombie.

God, 14 days for me is the longest I have been clean in 3-4 years. I just can't believe it and it wasn't all that bad this time. Uncomfortable but doable. I hope my life will get better and now I can raeally deal with the issues that got me using in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Hi Zyggy, it concerned me that you said your family is "forcing" you into residential treatment. And six months sounds like a long time. I'm not sure where you are located, but around here the residentials are usu. 30 to 90 days, with the first 7-10 days or so being detox, which you have already done. Im not trying to discourage you if YOU think this is what is best. One alternative I know of is called partial hospitilization, where you go for something like 4 hours a day, but are still able to stay with your family. Please keep us posted and let us know what you are going to do.

Kinevol, good for you! You really pushed through and I'm guessing you are going to start having more good days from here on in. Good job sticking with it!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:16 pm 
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I know after being in NA now for a while and meeting many of the different people from the various recovery homes who come to meetings that typical stays for opiate adiction are 90 days minimum, of course, if insurance covers it. It seems that most of the folks who are kicking opiates initially signed on for 30 or 60 days and end up doing a 90 day stint, some are past the 4 month mark.

Opiates screwed my brain up pretty good and being an addict has my thinking pretty screwed up, I would have done a 6 month stay in a recovery home if I could have. Truthfully, I haven't ruled out going inpatient for 30 days around Christmas time, it's something that I've been mulling over, I just can't be out of work for 6 months.

Good luck with your treatment Zyggy, I hope you're able to learn a lot.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:18 am 
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This is getting old, I stated at one point that I was 9O% symptom free, I think I got a little ahead of myself. Here I am at 5 in the morning, wide awake again. I have been trying to take less and less meds but I cant sleep without anything, now it turns out that I cant sleep WITH them. I switched from NyQuil to Tylenol PM they work, but only for part of the night, just like the NyQuil.

Anyway, all in all I am OK, and will live but this detox is starting to drag on, someone said when I first posted that its not the strength, but its the length of the sub detox that sucks. Well its starting to suck. I KEEP WAITING TO WAKE UP AND FEEL BETTER.

ZYGGY -

I feel your pain... I don't want to keep using, but I don't want to NOT keep using. I can honestly say that if I could go to a residential rehab for 6 months I WOULD. Of course I dont have any kids to miss but I cant think of a better way to build a foundation and let your brain and spirit get back to zero. I had to go into the city for a work meeting for the first time since I got off subs ( I have a long vacation, which is why I jumped now ) and as I drove down the street where I used to buy my dope 5 years ago, the thought popped up that "Now I can get high again" I made it a few more blocks then turned around and went to a meeting. Its the only way I know how to not use.

Anyway, I am tired of this whole circus and I am getting really tired of this kick, I am still optimistic about the whole thing, and I keep telling myself that I WILL GET BETTER, I just want to feel better now.

T


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:36 am 
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Kinevol,

You're on the rollercoaster ride called Suboxone detox. Some people experience mild up's and down's, while others experience big up's and down's. It's completely normal for you to feel pretty decent one moment/day, then the next to get slammed again. Suboxone wd is like a bad fart, it just keeps hanging around and hanging around.

Hang tough bud, it will get better with time.

Good on you for hitting a meeting. One thing that NA has taught me is that I can NOT use drugs successfully, I completely suck at using drugs successfully and therefore I have to stay away from them.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Hey everyone,

So my little bump in the subox detox road lasted for about 3 days and nights, I hope that I have gone around the bend and that was the last real dip.

Hey Romeo, that fart metaphor was classic, I concur!

What I do know now is that I still feel REALLY s l o w and hella low energy, but on the positive side, I am now sleeping more or less the night with NO meds. It almost seemed like I started sleeping better when I stopped everything except my 1 clonidine per night.

The other positives I can report are that I have not had any real cravings to speak of, I have not had any prolonged depression at all, just moments, and other than the low energy.... this whole thing is do-able....NOT FUN...but do-able.

I have to start work again on the 1st, so I have been trying to squeeze the most summer I can into these last few days before that starts. In a way I am looking forward to going back, it will keep my mind occupied and out of the gutter. The biggest test is to see how i feel in Feb when its cold and grey out and I am working 40 hours a week.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Hope this helps someone.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Soooo. So many things that other people have shared about their experience has now become true for me. I can absolutely say that the first "acute" part of my detox was WAY easier than I had expected. I would chalk that up to a long taper, exercise and comfort meds.

That being said, I am now 26 days into my detox and I am still not sleeping more than about 5-6 hours a night, and I am defiantly pretty funky still overall. I would say that the initial joy of being off subs and the fact that I had not had the horrible time I expected kept me in good spirits for about 2 weeks, but the time after that has really started to wear me down.

In all honesty, I just want some relief and I feel like if it does not come soon I may snap AKA get loaded.

I have heard alot of people say that they started to feel better around 30 days in, so I am hoping that is the case for me.

I will check in again at 30 days and let everyone know.

Tom


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:28 pm 
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kinevol wrote:
Soooo. So many things that other people have shared about their experience has now become true for me. I can absolutely say that the first "acute" part of my detox was WAY easier than I had expected. I would chalk that up to a long taper, exercise and comfort meds.

That being said, I am now 26 days into my detox and I am still not sleeping more than about 5-6 hours a night, and I am defiantly pretty funky still overall. I would say that the initial joy of being off subs and the fact that I had not had the horrible time I expected kept me in good spirits for about 2 weeks, but the time after that has really started to wear me down.

In all honesty, I just want some relief and I feel like if it does not come soon I may snap AKA get loaded.

I have heard alot of people say that they started to feel better around 30 days in, so I am hoping that is the case for me.

I will check in again at 30 days and let everyone know.

Tom


Yikes, please don't go out and get loaded! Please, please, please.....you have put so much work into this battle and you would be going back to the very beginning. It would be a temporary fix and then you'd feel totally defeated. Try to imagine that feeling after all the crap you've pushed through.

I understand the sleep thing. I'm tapering and at least half the nights, I sleep from 11:30 to 3 and then wake up and am WIDE AWAKE until about 5 and then sleep one more hour. I am so used to this, but the idea of sleeping solidly night after night sounds like being in heaven. We will get there!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:42 pm 
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I know, I am fucked right now. I KNOW that my "recreational" drug using days are WAY over. I KNOW that I have no choice anymore, its basically SOBRIETY ...or... misery and consequences.

I KNOW all that, but as Im sure you know at 5:30 after flopping around and sweating for a couple hours, ALL I can think about is wanting to feel better. The only way I know how to feel better immediately is to put opiates into my brain.

I know from reading others experiences on the forum, and talking with people in the rooms who have gone through this...IS DOES GET BETTER. I will say that in the middle of my 4th night bad sleep it does not feel like that is true for me.

I have been thinking about how at this point I really dont feel much different from when I was on small doses of sub, except now I am miserable and have cravings.... Why not just be on suboxone the rest of my life. I honestly had very few side effects from the sub, it acted as an antidepressant, and kept my cravings at bay. The only negative side effect where I got lazy, gained a little weight and had a lower sex drive at first. All those things may actually be positives:)

Anyway, I stayed sober TODAY. Did a lot of things I did not want to do today to stay sober ( meetings, phone calls etc. )

I do wonder what my life will be like chemical free... I dont want to fuck it up before I do feel better.

Thanks for your input, stick with your taper it is possible.

T


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:01 am 
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Kinevol,

First things first, I love you man (obviously in a friend kinda way). I love your honesty and I want you to know, you are not alone. It is completely normal to be feeling like you want to get high again. You've been feeling like crap for a while and you just want a break.....I get it man, I really do......I remember saying those exact words to my wife a few times during the worst parts of my wd. I just wanted a break from it all, but I also knew that there was really no way to just use once, so I kept on pushing.

For me, the worst part of my day was the evening, around 9pm. I couldn't sit still, I kept having that jump out of my skin feeling and anxiety would build because I basically knew I had another night of shit sleep ahead of me. What I ended up doing around 9pm every night was to jump in my truck and ride. 95% of the time I would listen to AC/DC, Hells Bells, FULL BLAST!! I would drive to a nearby "big city" then turn around and come home. I would ride for half an hour, up to an hour on some nights. The ride plus the Rock N Roll got me out of my head and it enabled me to make it another night.

I can't remember, did you ever take Clonidine?? Remember, I didn't even START Clonidine until day 30 of my wd and it helped me tons.

Lastly, if you absolutely feel like you're not gonna make it, if you feel like you can't stand it for one more second, please, don't use, go back on a low dose of Suboxone.

I'm gonna send you a PM with some contact info of mine, feel free to get in touch with me whenever you want.

I have so much respect for you and your honesty. Don't ever change that part of your personality.

Romeo

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Tom, I so totally feel for you. I have been exactly where you are, and the way you are describing it is bringing back the memory in a very real way. I actually managed to get off of my d.o.c. about two years ago. I got through the acute withdrawals, but after about a month I felt the way you do now and I couldn't take it. That's how I ended up getting on Sub, which in hindsight, may not have been the best move, considering I'm about to go through the whole thing all over again. I can't help but think I gave up five minutes before the miracle happened. I feel like if I could have just stuck it out a couple more weeks I would have gotten better.
I think Romeo gave you some good advice. Stick it out if you possibly can. You WILL get better. If it seems impossible then make a deal with your self. Give yourself x number of days (like 21) from today, and give yourself permission to go on a low dose, less than 1mg, of Sub if you absolutely can't take it anymore. I truly believe that once the 21 days are up you won't need to do it.
I really, really feel your pain. Looking through your thread it seems you've had good days and bad days. I'm hoping this is just a bad day and tomorrow will be better. Hang in there, and keep posting.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
For me, the worst part of my day was the evening, around 9pm. I couldn't sit still, I kept having that jump out of my skin feeling and anxiety would build because I basically knew I had another night of shit sleep ahead of me. What I ended up doing around 9pm every night was to jump in my truck and ride. 95% of the time I would listen to AC/DC, Hells Bells, FULL BLAST!! I would drive to a nearby "big city" then turn around and come home. I would ride for half an hour, up to an hour on some nights. The ride plus the Rock N Roll got me out of my head and it enabled me to make it another night.


You know, I never thought about doing that, but I could really see how it could help. Especially when the headache and big physical stuff goes away. I am not really into rock, I like electronic and hip-hop but I could totally see listening to some chill down tempo/ambient stuff and going for a half hour drive really helping me out. This is going to be helpful when its cold outside and hard to take a walk.

I am doing a very slow sub taper right now, not even sure what the final goal is, I just want to reduce my dose. The WD effects have been very manageable, but they are still uncomfortable. I usually have about 2 or 3 bad days with a headache and lots of frustration. Before and after that I feel anxiety for a few days.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Wow this has been a long haul, and everyone is right I have had surprisingly good days and then a handful of really bad days, I assume this is a common experience.

What I know from my last week is this.... When I thought I was gonna break from no sleep, which was just killing me, I felt like a anxiety ridden, uncomfortable grumpy mess for about 4 days. Those feelings caused me to REALLY want to get some relief, I was justifying it in all kinds of crazy addict ways. All that ended for me a few days ago, at about 3 one morning laying on the couch watching a movie, I said fuck it and took a couple tylanol pm pills and you know what, since I have not taken anything for sleep for a while, they worked like magic. I slept for a bout 10 hours straight, nice deep restful sleep. It literally changed EVERYTHING for me. I woke up in a great mood, optimistic with no cravings. Thats the good news, the bad news is it did not work the next night, so I am back to a little restless half sleep nights, but I still feel Way better.

So I have been off of work for the whole time I was kicking, and I started back yesterday I will say that I am through most of the syptoms to a point where I am actually really happy to be back, it keeps my mind busy.

I really want to thank everyone who has been so free with their experiences and advice, this forum and being able to share my experience has really helped me deal with this process. I have been getting alot of PM messages and that makes me feel good, hopefully my experience can help others.

I am on day 29 or 30 today, and I do feel optimistic about things getting better from here on out.

I will check in again in a week or so. Hang in there everyone, it does get better, believe it or not.

T


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 Post subject: checking in day 40
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:58 pm 
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So, this is a weird experience to say the least. As I have said a few times in my diary,my initial withdrawal was reasonably mild but the last few weeks has not been easy.

I am at day 39 today (40 was so much cleaner in the heading), and for the last 4-5 days I have had a REALLY uncomfortable malaise and sadness settle in on me. At first it seemed related to lack of sleep, and it does get a little better when I take Tylanol PMs, but those only work every other day. I am getting about 6 or so actual hours of sleep per night on those other nights but the early morning wake up sets me off on a bad foot.

I have been a grumpy fuck for the last week, what do they say "restless irritable and discontent". Last Friday (yesterday I guess) I turned around 2 times to go buy dope, just because I could not STAND feeling like this another second. I did what I have learned and made some calls and did some praying and made it to the freeway home, but it was CLOSE. I guess the good news is that I actually have changed some because before I would have just gone, damn the consequences.

I just went back through the threads and it seems like I am not the lone ranger on this, it looks like it takes 80-90 days to feel better. One of my problems is that I am not sure what NORMAL feels like for me, I have been on drugs for so long.. My biggest fear is that this is what I feel like all the time, and thats why I started using to begin with..

Everyone who has been through this keeps telling me that it does get better, and I do believe that somewhere deep inside, but while I am going through it I dont feel like it will ever get better.

I was really hoping my experience getting off suboxone would be different ( we all think we are different huh) but it looks like I have to pay for my past just like everyone else.

Thanks again everyone for your stories and your e-mails.

I will check in again when something changes ( or doesnt )

Tom


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:10 am 
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Hey kinevol,

I went through a distint period of being grumpy.....actually, it was more akin to rage. I would go from mildly pissed off to full blown rage at the drop of a dime. This period of "hair trigger rage" lasted several weeks for me.

It seems to be true for many of us opiate addicts that PAWS causes many of us to relapse. It's like during the acute phase we're hanging by our finger nails knowing it will only last so long. We continue hanging by our finger nails, waiting for the "Great Big Feel Better" to happen, then PAWS sets in and we throw our hands in the air and say F*UCK it and go use.

I hear ya on wanting to feel normal again, believe me, I get ya. This is what my friends keep reminding me of though, am I better now than I was a month ago......I usually answer yes. We get locked into wanting to feel normal again, but we forget that it's a process and we forget all the progress we made. We're addicts dude, we don't want no stinkin' process, we want results....YESTERDAY!!!!

The truth of the matter is this, recovery from opiate addiction can be a long drawn out process, especially for those of us who abused for so long.

Here's the next thing, I got through my acute wd, I got through my PAWS, then guess what hit me......living life without drugs!!! I've been doing a great big WTF on that one. How am I supposed to live drug free??? I lived my entire adult life ON drugs, now I don't have a frickin' clue as to how to really live without drugs. Drugs were my everything, they were my best friend, they were my pick me up, they were my energy, they made me happy. Now I'm learning how to do all that crap on my own and it's a struggle, but I'm going for it because I like being completely drug free.....I just have to learn how to really live this way.

You've got a long road ahead of you Kinevol, I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you. But I know this, it's rewarding, it's beautiful and it's how we were meant to live!!

Dig deep man, it does get better, but it takes WORK.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Its good to hear others experiences, it does not necessarily make mine any easier to go through but it helps me know I am not alone.

I was going to write you and ask how long until you felt " better" but I guess you answered that in your post. Its hit me in the last week that maybe this is how I feel ALL the time, and this is as good as it gets.

As much as Suboxone saved my life and gave me a life again, this part is hard. Your so right, I want to feel great all the time right now, and I know how to do that. I keep thinking that I DESERVE to feel better because I "went through it" with the sub withdrawl but its only been 6 weeks tomorrow and I was on subs for 5 years, so I have to learn to be patient.

I appreciate your input Romeo, I am with you 100% my mind tells me hourly, fuck it make yourself feel better now.

How long has it been for you off of the subs, and how much better are you now than at week 6 ( I know those are arbitrary numbers, but my junkie mind needs something to cling to.

Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:06 pm 
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I've been off of Suboxone for 1 year and 3 months and I still feel like absolute dog puke, it's horrid!!! JUST KIDDING!!! OMGosh, I can't believe I just did that?? :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have been off of Suboxone for 1 year and 3 months, so to answer your question about how much better do I feel now than at week 6........I feel A WHOLE HELLUVA LOT BETTER NOW THAN AT WEEK 6!!!!!!! :D

For real, you're at week 6 off of Suboxone and what you're feeling is NOT as good as it gets!! Your brain is still repairing itself kinevol. 5 years on Suboxone ain't gonna be undone in 6 weeks.

Let me ask you this, those 6 hours of sleep you're getting, are they uninterrupted??

How's your eating?? Do you eat healthy or do you eat crap??

Are you getting any exercise?? What do you do for fun??

You're in PAWS (post acute wd syndrome) right now and PAWS is what causes a lot of us recovering opiate addicts to relapse because it can be so drawn out.

I gonna link to an article on PAWS that helped me to survive my PAWS, I even printed out a copy for my wife so she could recognize some of my behaviors and help to get me straightened out when she saw them.

This article goes over a boat load of PAWS symptoms, be careful not to over-identify with every single symptom. This article does offer some great suggestions on how to get better though. The timelines will not necessarily apply directly to you either.

Here it is: http://digital-dharma.net/post-acute-wi ... mediately/

Bottom line, you need recovery kinevol. Quitting drugs is only the first step, now you need to learn how to live without drugs and to stay clean. AA/NA and SMART recovery will help you with recovery past quitting drugs.

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 Post subject: Romeo you suck!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Wow that was mean ( in a good way ) funny too.

I get everything you said, I am in PAWS for sure, I feel such a lethargy that it takes all I have just to get to work and a meeting or two a day. The one negative thing for me is I have been needing to nap each day and man does that piss the wifey off, I think she remembers when I would be loaded and nodding out on the coach sweating at 2 in the afternoon. Its a trigger for her, it REALLY pisses her off.

I have been beating myself up about how I am not getting anything done right now, just work, meetings food and TV. I was exercising like crazy for the first 3-4 weeks of my sub kick and then I went back to work and have not really done much since, I think it would help.

I guess there is not too much I can do but ride it out, I have been able to speak up at meetings and express my fears and cravings so I have a lot of friends in my fellowship who have been through this too..

Thanks for the PAWS thing, I read it with the wife and it was stuff I more or less knew but it was good to see it all laid out like that, and it helped for her to see it too. I had a nice day off of work today, so I got a noon meeting and bike ride in and I do feel better right now.

One minute at a time.

Thanks Romeo
T


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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