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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Hi everyone,
Im new here- i am an on again off again opiate addict of about 2 years, recently had a major surgery and have had a few month perc/tramadol binge.

I decided that I needed to make a change, and got help yesterday. I started suboxone films yesterday, 2 mg/8 mg twice a day. My withdrawal symptoms- anxiety, numb and tingly hands and feet, cold clammy hands and feet, etc... But along with that came some very negative side effects.

I feel extremely foggy- not sure what other word to use? Just out of it? Blurred vision, nauseus, i have large hives on my neck, a sore and raspy throat, and just feel sick. And ive only taken 3 doses? My w/d was not as severe as others, like vomiting, etc but the panic attacks and numbness was awful. Im not sure what to do, if this is normal, continue or not, or if anyone else had experienced what I am? I am seeing the dr tomorrow, and hes left it up to me to decide if i want to take tonights and tomorrows doses... Can anyone help?!?! :(( thx in advance.

LSR


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Hello LSR and welcome to the forum. I sure hope your beginning to feel better after that surgery. You said you were taking 2mg/8mg twice per day....is that to mean your taking 2 of the 8mg film strips for a total of 16mgs per day? Just want to make sure I have that right?

I'm certainly not any kind of sub expert, only have been on it for about 3 years and tapering to get off of it. I'm down to a dose of 1.50mg and doing good actually. I'm just guessing here, but IF you are indeed taking 16mgs each day that may be at least part of the reason your feeling that way? It may be too much sub for you?

Again, that's my guess, and certainly not any kind of professional opinion. Maybe someone else will jump in here and let you know for sure. Maybe ask your doctor if you could try taking less and see if that pulls you out of the way your feeling? Worth a try I guess.

I was first put on 24mgs and I felt that "foggy" feeling also. And as soon as I began lowering my dose that lifted and I began feeling so much better. If it happened to me I guess it's possible it could be the same in your case too.

Anyway I just wanted to welcome you and tell you to hang in there and I'm sure others will be here soon. Take care and please keep posting and let us know how it turns out. Wishing you the very best!

Karen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:43 pm 
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I'm with Brown Eyed Girl..

It is quite possible that your dose is a tad too high for you. Can you tell your doctor about these symptoms and see if he thinks adjusting your dose is the way to go? It really common for people to be started way above their tolerance level and to experience these types of symptoms. I'm not a doctor but you could just try 8mgs.. and always add more if it wasn't enough.

Remember that this drug has a long half life so even if you drop your dose today, you might not feel better for another day or two.


Last edited by tinydancer on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Hi everyone-
Thx for the replies.
This is so new to me...
Its 8 mg/2mg suboxone twice a day.
Is that clearer?
Should i cut them in half?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:57 pm 
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8/2MG stands for 8mg of suboxone and 2mg of naloxone.

You could try 4mg in the morning and 4 in the afternoon/ evening. Or perhaps 8mg would hold you all day. A lot of people only dose once unless they need to split dose.. Obviously you should consult with your doctor but (IMO) it's always better to start with a lower dose and add to it if necessary, rather than overdoing it an feeling sick all day, or for several days.

(and yes, if you decide to do 4 + 4, you can just cut the dose in half. We all do that when we're trying to lower our dose/ taper off..)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Ok- thank you! I was on/off. Between percs/trams and not constant. So hard to describe. Recreational use for a while, and then may 24th, i had emergency surgery- perforated ulcer repair (im only 33). Major abdominal surgery, major pain, major drugs. In the hospital, dilaudid, morph, a pump, the works. At home- percs. One my rx's ran out, i started buying illegally and taking like tic tacs. In between purchases, i got scripts here and there for 5 mg's, tramadols, ultracets, etc. but at my peak, id say i was (sonetimes even chewing) ten + 10mg percs/day. This past sunday, august 4, about 7 am, i took my last 2. That was it- decided done. I wont even go into the ups and downs, my kids etc. u all know.
W/d set in - horrible anxiety, panic, chills, numbness, tingling in hands and feet, leg cramps, and horrible lethargy.

Within an hour of the first dose of sub, that all subsided- energy back, anxiety gone. But the fogginess and the rest set in. The taste bud thing too- like blistered? Today i have a terrible sore throat and laryngitis.

I am going to the dr tomorrow and will let u all know what he says! Thx again!! Maybe i need a lower dose. I hope thats is. I was questioning going on in the first place- not sure if i made the right choice...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Just got back from urgent care- im allergic to suboxone! The hives! Dr tomorrow will report back. :-/


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Hey LSR,

So your Dr. says you're allergic to Suboxone? We've heard that before and it was usually the Naloxone in the Sub, not the Buprenorphine. Just a guess. I am surely no medical professional. Your doctor can try putting you on Subutex. That is only Buprenorphine w/o the Naloxone. It is normally given to pregnant women so the fetus will only receive the Bupe. Most everyone tolerates an opiate. I guess you'll find out one way or another.

The dose your doctor started you on sounds about right. Most Sub doctors error on the side of too much vs too little. And yes, I too felt really weird for the first week. Can't remember if my brain was foggy, but it sure sounds like a Sub side effect. It takes time to acclimate to it. It is a very powerful drug even though it's considered a partial agonist.

Good luck with your appt.

rule

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Hives, while a common allergic response, is also a fairly common opiate OD reaction. "OD" aka Overdose doesn't have to be fatal or even that serious, can also mean too high of a dose.

If you look at any website for symptoms for opiate overdose, Hives is there. Talk to your doctor, you may not be allergic, just responding to the dosage. But as Rule mentioned, perhaps Subutex would be better for you in case it is the naloxone.


Last edited by tinydancer on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Also, I believe opiates in general cause the release of histamines which cause your skin to redden, itch, & well up..

Opiates Overdose Symptoms

Opiates overdose symptoms may include:


Bloody urine
Constricted, pinpoint sized pupils
Drowsiness
Euphoria or dysphoria (unpleasant mood)
Fever
Flushed skin, hives
Seizures
Slow breathing or stopping breathing
Swollen face, lips, tongue or throat
Vomiting, which, in combination with suppressed cough reflex, may lead to aspiration pneumonia or suffocation
Coma, death

(I'm not encouraging you to keep taking suboxone, you should talk to your doctor for sure, just saying there are other possibilities..)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Well- i've been off suboxone since yesterday morning and am not experiencing ANY w/d symptoms! So, the dr. Decided to go a different route, and treat my anxiety. I take zoloft, which he upped from 50 to 100 mg, and replaced xanax when needed or at night with klonopin .25 in the morning and .50 at night. I am opiate free, and will not need suboxone or other drugs like it. Now that my body is ok, its my mind that I need to take control over. And thats self discipline, intense therapy, support, and just enjoying being as clear headed as i am!

Today, i feel amazing. So clear. So bright. I see the world so differently. Its the craziest thing. Hard to explain/hard to believe. Thx everyone! Best of luck to all of you!

LSR


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Hoping the best for you LSR!

I certainly do not want to burst any bubble but I want to warn you that suboxone is a very long acting opioid. It stays in the system for a while. Most people won't even feel real withdrawals for 3 days. The bupe is still very much in your system today and you could be feeling so great because it's finally lessened/ evened out to a dose that is better for you.

I hope that you do not need it and that you've somehow timed everything to only need to get off SOAs. That would be best case scenario. Just don't be taken off guard if w/d hits you tomorrow or the following day, that's usually how it works with bupe.

Keep us posted if you can!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:26 am 
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Ok, so my last dose of 8 mg was thurs am. I am still ok. Does this make sense? The dr said he did not think id experience w/d or need to continue. I hope hes right. I think my dependance on opiates was only slightly physical, while much more of an emotional addiction. I think the w/d i felt is done, and now its up to me? I hope im right...

Ps- klonopin did not help me sleep. Anyone else have experience with this?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:11 pm 
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It does make sense, because you also had 16mg the day before and it stacks in the system a bit. But that doesn't mean that you'll end up with any harsh acute withdrawals. You may be absolutely fine when the bupe is completely out of your system. What was your oxy/tram habit like prior to starting sub? That usually determines how one will feel for a while, once off of all opiates. You're not going to have any post acute withdrawal symptoms from the sub because you were on it for only a day, but could from the previous opiate habit. Unless it was on & off and fairly minimal. It usually just depends on the person's chemistry, length of use and amounts.

A lot of people use sub just to detox off pills/ heroin short term. The key is figuring out how to keep from going back to the pills once your over the detox hump. I hope it all works out and you keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:17 pm 
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I'm with everyone else. 16mg is waaaayy too high for what you WERE taking IMO. Bupe is something like 35x more powerful than morphine, where heroin is like 3-4x as powerful. Hives are also a result of histamine release...which opiates also cause. Main thing: how is your breathing? Is it noticeably slower? If you are already having slight OD reactions you DON'T want it to stack in your system....IF that is the case.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:28 pm 
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I was a recreational on/off addict, amounts varied. And not a constant habit. Sometimes ten 10 mg percs/day, sometimes 2, sometimes just ultracets, sometimes nothing. Hard to describe. So, i really dont know if my body was dependant... Its the recreational popping that started me, and that will be the hard part- to enjoy a drink or a night out without pills, (and sometimes coke), just a glass of wine.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:19 am 
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A day like today- got a sitter and doing sunday funday with my hub- sans pills. This is the hard part. I already want, and dont know how to enjoy the day with him w out a pill. This is the hard part i gather. So W/D and no med since thurs am and its sunday. Assume inwont have any. Just the mental cravings?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:34 am 
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You are absolutely correct! Dealing with the cravings and life without the opiate buffer was the reason I couldn't stop on my own in the first place. I was scared of withdrawing, yes, but I was also scared that I could never find anything enjoyable again without pills.

For me, the miracle part of suboxone was that the obsession over pills ended within 24 hours of my sub induction. It did mean that I had to find other things to think about, but opiates stopped being my motivation when I started on sub.

It doesn't sound like your physical habit was that bad, but you need to find some ways to help yourself with the mental/psychological aspects of addiction. Some folks try meetings like AA, NA, Smart Recovery, etc. Some use this website as a place to help maintain sobriety. I have an addiction therapist that I see when I need to a tune up.

Do not ignore your cravings! They are telling you something that you need to face and address. Perhaps they are telling you to find new positive ways of filling up your days. :)

Amy

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