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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:32 pm 
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I haven't been on this forum for probably a year. My daughter is a heroin addict (needles). She is 21 and a beautiful girl. She started taking opiates at age 17 and has progressed and been using needles for her preferred high for nearly two years. Yes I know, terrifying.....
Anyway I have fought this battle with her for years. She is currently in rehab just for the second time and is back on sub for the 4th time. I think I got so freaked out reading the forum that I was afraid to let her stay on high doses and always tapered her fast and never let her stay on longer than three months. she also refused any other treatment such as therapy or group. Even when the doctor would start her at 16 mgs. I went to jumping down almost immediately each time. We also failed each time. By the 3rd month and down to crumbs or sometimes she would go behind my back and just jump from 1mg, she always started using again.
This poor young girl is in a most horrible way and I think finally she realizes she is going to die. I did not have to force or coerce her into rehab this time she went willingly. It has been only one week but she is still there!! I am totally freaked that they have her on 16 mgs. I have decided since my way failed so many times perhaps I should let her hang a little longer. I am so afraid of her staying on it for a year and going through PAWS. I have sat up with her countless times as she withdrew from heroin but I am scared to death of the suboxone withdraw I hear it is even worse. I also realize that in my daughters case, she may end up being a person on ORT for life although i pray not. I know the recovery percent for addicts like her. Very discouraging.
The good news is that for the first time ever she really wants to stop using. She is in a state paid facility so she can only stay 30 days and we all know where that is gonna lead if she won't follow through. I am broke, exhausted and mentally drained from the stress of watching her and doing all in my power to help her through it. As her Mom I think it it damn near as damaging for me as it has been for her and I say that to be taken with a grain of salt because it is so untrue!!
It just feels that way to me to struggle with her. I have done my research I know very much about addiction, heroin, suboxone and everything in between.
My question is this?? Should I just try to relax and let her stay on the sub longer this time and stop freaking out??? I know it beats her going to the ghetto and shooting up that's a given. I am just scared that her poor brain has had enough opiate and I want her CLEAN. I think my path and hers is far from over. HELP!!

If the doc reads this he is gonna remember writing and telling me I told you so and Doc...you were correct.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Studies do show that short term treatment with sub has a very high relapse rate. And 16 mg is, I'd say only an average to high dose. If she needs that to conquer her cravings, then it's working. Sub withdrawal is not worse than heroin....Most say it's not nearly as bad. Also, because she's been on heroin she still could have PAWS. PAWS is not something unique to suboxone. Anyone on an opiate long term could have it. From your description of her history, she could end up with PAWS even if you take her off the sub after a month. It's my unprofessional, non-medical opinion that you need to let go a little bit and let the doctors treat her at the dosage and for the length they deem necessary. There are worse things than taking a pill everyday - like the cost of active addiction, including death. I hope I haven't been too harsh about this. I hope to hear that she's doing well soon. Hang in there and do remember to take care of yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:26 pm 
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First let me say you are a very good mother and your daughter is lucky to have you and I promise you know she knows this. I’m not a mom I’m on the other side I put my mom threw a living hell for many years of active addiction. My mom saved my life like your are doing for your daughter I know you are worried about her being on SUBOXONE long term and my mom was too but over time she realized me being on SUBOXONE gave me my life back and she has accepted that I will be on SUB for the for a while. And I cant tell you how much easier that made my recovery knowing my mom wasn’t upset with me being on SUB for long term. It was like a 1000 pound weight was lifted off my shoulders when she told me she is ok with me taking sub as long as my DR sees fit. My point being just let things play themselves out this time around you have tried 3 times with short term with no success so maybe this time a little longer might be the trick. And too lower her dose so quick without the DR approval is not a good idea because you are telling her one thing and the Dr is telling her another. And as a kid you want to listen to your mom over a Dr but no matter how much a person knows the Dr is always goanna know a little more. What my mom did was sit down with my Dr and tell him her concerns and thats what really changed her outlook on the whole thing.

All im trying to say is just let things play out this time instead of rushing things that’s all.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:05 am 
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First off I would like to say your doing a great thing standing by your daughter, as a mother and an addict I ask myself often what would I do??? She needs you and god bless you for being there I can feel your love for her through your writing.

As far as her staying on subs for awhile at what ever dose keeps her off the streets, I would highly recommend it :D I understand your concerns, but I have read so much about subs and have been on them for 10 months now and believe I would be dead if it were not for them. It sounds like your daughter is in pretty deep and suboxone will allow her to learn how to live with out the high and the chase and keep her off the streets and most importantly alive.

If your concerns are the PAWS thats something you can deal with way down the line if need be, many many people get off subs sucessfully with out missing even a days work. I know for a fact that I couldn't have gone to work with out opiates.

How does she do when on subs?

Please keep us informed and feel free to ask questions or vent here thats what were here for, maybe when she gets out she can join on here and get some more support untill shes more comfortable with groups or other recovery measures? I will keep you both in my prayers good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:37 am 
Hey momofateenaddict!!

Well, i think you are so great for being their for your daughter. It reminds me somewhat of my situation. Im 25 years old and used drugs for 8 years. My mom was the only person left in my corner at the end. I've been taking sub for 19 months now and i can finally live. I have my life back. I have grown so much with the help of this medication. Its so much more worth taking sub then losing my life to drugs. I was on a one way ticket to the cemetery. Sub has given my mind a chance to heal and it has done just that. I actually didnt think it was possible to be where im at today until i found sub. I really think if your daughter is maintaining well with sub, then it could very well be the answer for her to get her life back and for you to get your daughter back from this horrible nightmare. Im glad shes doing well with the sub. It just reinforces my thought that sub may very well be what she needs to get her life straightend out. So my final answer, i think she should take sub until she learns how to live without drugs or of course until her doctor see's fit. Thats most definitely whats its done for me. Its help me learn how to live without drugs. It takes away the thought of using and allows you to live a normal, healthy life. With that said, i wish you and your daughter nothing but the best and please let us know how things work out.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:39 am 
Hey momofateenaddict!!

Well, i think you are so great for being their for your daughter. It reminds me somewhat of my situation. Im 25 years old and used drugs for 8 years. My mom was the only person left in my corner at the end. I've been taking sub for 19 months now and i can finally live. I have my life back. I have grown so much with the help of this medication. Its so much more worth taking sub then losing my life to drugs. I was on a one way ticket to the cemetery. Sub has given my mind a chance to heal and it has done just that. I actually didnt think it was possible to be where im at today until i found sub. I really think if your daughter is maintaining well with sub, then it could very well be the answer for her to get her life back and for you to get your daughter back from this horrible nightmare. Im glad shes doing well with the sub. It just reinforces my thought that sub may very well be what she needs to get her life straightend out. So my final answer, i think she should take sub until she learns how to live without drugs or of course until her doctor see's fit. Thats most definitely whats its done for me. Its help me learn how to live without drugs. It takes away the thought of using and allows you to live a normal, healthy life. With that said, i wish you and your daughter nothing but the best and please let us know how things work out.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:29 am 
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THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR REPLIES. I HAD FORGOTTEN JUST HOW MUCH HELP THIS SITE HAS GIVEN ME IN THE PAST. I TALKED TO HER TODAY AND SHE DAID THAT THE 16 MGS IS WAY TOO MUCH FOR HER SO SHE WITHOUT ANYONES ADVICE STARTED SPITTING OUT THE SECOND 8MG AND HIDING IT AND I TOLD HER THAT WAS A BAD IDEA. SHE GETS CAUGHT DOING THAT IN REHAB AND THEY WILL KICK HER OUT. BUT SHE ALWAYS DID MAINTAIN WELL EVEN ON 4 MGS. I TOLD HER TO GO AHEAD AND DO WHAT SHE WAS COMFORTABLE WITH AND THAT THIS TIME WE WOULD STAY ON IT LONGER AND I ASSURED HER IF SHE FELT CRAVINGS THAT IT WAS OK TO GO BACK UP A LITTLE. YES SHE WAS IN PRETTY DEP AND SUB HAS SAVED HER LIFE MORE THAN ONCE. THIS TIME I AM GOING TO JUST RELAX AND LET HER STAY ON. YES I KNOW THAT PAWS IS NOT JUST A SUB THING BUT I HAVE READ ALOT OF POSTS FROM PEOPLE THAT SAY IT IS WORSE, AS IN MORE DRAWN OUT. PERSONALLY I THINK ITS GONNA TAKE MY KID A LONG TIME TO GET HER BRAIN BACK.

I AM CONFUSED ABOUT ONE THING...IF SHE STAYS ON SUB (OPIATE) will her brain receptors heal or will that not happen until after she is off the sub also.??? i know she will learn to get her lkife skills back but what about her brain learning to create its own endorphins again? will that have to wait until she is free of any kind of opiate??????


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:21 am 
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I think you are an amazing mother. I also think your thought processes may need to shift a little and I hope I do not upset you by saying this. First, I think how much suboxone your daughter is on should be between her, a counselor, and her doctor. Mostly her doctor. Your daughter spitting out part of her suboxone is not anything to be proud of on any account. Addicts love to be their own doctors. That is how we got addicted to begin with. We think we can take care of ourselves and we know what is best. Well look where it got us. I would suggest you encourage her to DEVELOP the relationship between herself and her doctor. She needs to talk to them about not wanting to take 16mg and have that discussion with them. I think 4mg is probably not enough to eliminate cravings. Also consider, your daughter may prefer 4mg because at lower dosages it acts more like a full agonist meaning she might feel a bit more of a "high" if you can call it that. I am not saying she should be on a high dose either. I am just saying that to break addictive behaviors, she needs to stop treating herself.

Secondly is that suboxone is no worse than any other full agonist. Heroin, oxycontin, alcohol.....all of it will cause PAWS. That is what keeps her relapsing. If she tapers properly and slowly from suboxone, she will pretty much be able to avoid PAWS.

Third, the last thing either of you should be concerned about right now is how she is getting off suboxone. I know that seems strange because the whole point of this is to be "drug free", "sober", "free from addiction" right? The first question I asked the doc when I got on suboxone was "when will you get me off this?". I get it. But she isn't even stabilized yet. She clearly still has strong connections with people who use. This is the first she has willingly participated in a recovery program. She needs that therapy. The hard part about suboxone is that it makes you feel so normal that it can be deceiving in terms of making one think they have their shit together enough to get off of it. She will only have her shit together BECAUSE she is on suboxone. I don't think either of you are ready to go through a taper program again right now. I would seek to anjoy the stability suboxone provides for a while and enjoy getting off the roller coaster.

Most people's brains do not really "heal" or make their own endorphins while on suboxone. However, theoretically, the more the person does to force their body to make its own endorphins, the better. Exercise is the best way of doing that. So before she is ready to taper at all, she probably needs to be in a habit of regular exercise. Daily. Religiously. Because as she tapers and gets to lower doses of suboxone, that exercise is going to be what makes her feel better and be more capable of tapering and ultimately going off.

Let me note...I am not a doctor. I am not a medical professional. Everything I know about suboxone I learned from this site.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do as her mother is encourage her to follow the program recommended to her in rehab to a T whether she likes it or not. The reason is that she needs to learn HER way got her here. It is time to do it someone else's way. Help her to find a suboxone doctor for her aftercare program that is a good doctor. She needs someone who doesn't threaten her regarding relapse. She needs a doctor who basically will only kick her out of the program if she is caught diverting her suboxone. She needs a doctor who she feels comfortable talking to. She needs one who believes in both short term care and long term maintenance. That way she can trust his/her opinions and recommendations. She needs one who requires some kind of concurrent care whether it be meetings or therapy. She needs to learn to treat her addiction like the medical condition/disease it is. That isn't to say that she blindly follows bad advice. She should do as much research as she can about suboxone and addiction. If she doesn't like something the doctor recommends, she needs to ask questions until she is satisfied with the answers she receives. Only when the doctor can't provide a reasonable answer, should she be questioning his/her recommendations. Even then, the answer might be getting a different doctor, but the answer isn't just ignoring the advice and doing what you want anyways. That behavior got her and kept her sick and it won't get her better. It is honestly no better if you are the one doing it either. In the end, as you have noticed, she ignores your advice too and just goes her own way and does her own thing. That has to stop.

I hate to say that in my opinion, I think longer term maintenance is better for your daughter than short term. Mostly because of her age and drug of choice, and relapses. I wouldn't worry about the longer term impact of suboxone because the heroin is worse and there is no better recovery drug than suboxone. Suboxone will keep her alive until she matures and changes her lifestyle and immerses herself into recovery. I can only imagine what Dr. Junig may have told you before and I suspect you should follow whatever advice he gave the last time. He is pretty smart when it comes to suboxone.

Take care!
Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:59 pm 
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momofateenaddict,

You have received some amazing, well thought out advice.

I only wanted to throw one more thing out there...I was one suboxone for 3 years before my mind and body were ready to 'go it alone.' I knew when I was ready to stop suboxone. It took 3 years to get my head screwed on straight. My point is this, don't be afraid to let your daughter stay on suboxone long term, it may be what she needs to get her thinking straightened out.

The wd from 3 years of use were not a walk in the park, but they were a far cry from Active Adiction. I came off 3 years of suboxone about 6 months ago and I'm doing well, it was no freak show. It was withdrawal...withdrawal from opiates just plain sucks, there's no two ways about it. Remember, the horror stories are the ones that get all the headlines. The other wd stories aren't as 'interesting' so they don't get any where near the coverage.

I hope and pray your daughter is able to end this vicious cycle of addiction soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:38 pm 
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Hi Mom......
You and your daughter have done the right thing by getting into treatment!! Now do ALL the treatment NOT just the part that suits you! I say this with Respect for you as a mother and for all you have been through!! But I also say this an Addict that has been in treatment before... IMHO I think it's time for you to give the Professionals a chance to save your Daughters Life... I know that you have been down this road before But be grateful that your daughter has another chance at Recovery...... Not everyone is that lucky. I'm sure at this point you don't see your daughter as lucky But believe me I personally know at least 3 Mothers that would love to have their children in Recovery AGAIN But they had to plan their funeral instead of deciding whether or not to stay on medication.... I don't mean to be cold just Honest..... I wish you and your daughter the best of luck.

God Bless
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:32 pm 
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yes i did receive some well thought out very good advice. Advice that I plan to follow. I plan to go with her to her Dr. when she goes and hopefully I can come to understand the high dose thing. I don't get to talk to my daughter while she is in rehab but for 5 minutes once a week so not much gets to be said. I totally agree that "my way" as well as "her way" have failed repeatedly.

I've made up my mind now to let her know its ok to stay on the sub for a longer time. Yes, she does just go ahead and do her own thing anyway. But I was the one doling out the suboxone until the last time she was on it (Before this time). She stopped taking it completely and was selling it and buying dope. Even I did a little better than that in dispensing it!! I will talk to her and encourage her to be honest with her Dr. about her dosing. If 8 mgs works for her is that an OK dose.?? [/b]She seems to do her best on 6 mgs actually. But yes I am going to stop trying to control that and yes I do prefer sub over a funeral and she was headed quickly towards it. Her use had kind of slowed down and she was not using every day like she did in the past. At age 19 she shot up every day 6 times a day for an entire year. For the last year she has been kind of a binger and then afterwards she comes home and I hold her through the withdraw. For me, it was getting so incredibly difficult to continue to have to check to see if she was breathing. Sometimes it would take me walking in and out of her room 5 times before I could get the courage to touch her face.

I am incredibly grateful that she has chosen to stay in rehab but like I said it is a 30 day state paid program and then she is kicked loose and the sub doctor only gets paid to refill the sub for 3 months. This is another reason we failed. What do I do then??? They stop seeing her and cut off the sub. I self paid one time and spent all my life savings which was not much. It was well over a thousand dollars for two months. This time I can't self pay. So the other times I had to count the pills plan a drop and taper her with what I had and in that situation I did the only thing I felt I could do.

Yes she does still have her shitty friends. That I could never control or convince her she had to leave behind. She says without those friends she would have none. All her clean friends she alienated when she began to use. I would love to chain her in the basement for a year but I can't do that either!! There is a free one year Christian based program and I could get her in it (but cant be on sub) and she is halfway convinced that she will go there. The choice is hers. I wish it WERE mine, we wouldn't even be here.
Thank all of you for the help and for the room to vent.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:42 pm 
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8 mg is a pretty good dose to be on, in my opinion. It's not too low and not too high. It's comfortably above the ceiling, so her opiate receptors will be fully saturated. That will address both her withdrawals and her cravings.

Perhaps when she gets out of rehab she would be willing to join our forum? Sometimes for young people it's easier to hear things from people other than one's mother. Just a thought I had.

Do you not have insurance? Is that why you've had to self-pay in the past? Reckitt-Benckiser, suboxone's manufacturer has a patient assistance program. It's for uninsured people; once approved the meds cost ZERO and that's for a whole year. Each sub doc can have only 3 patients on that program. So you could always start looking for a new sub doctor after the rehab is done with her. Again, just another thought.

Good luck and I truly hope things work out for you both this time.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:24 pm 
Hey hows it going? Well, i can definitely tell you all to well how the whole friends thing goes. Im 25 and i've been taking sub 19months. I'll be honest, my mom had to give each dose to me in the beginning because my thinking was still very twisted. However, after about 3 months i had gained complete control of dosing my own medication, my mind and thinking had cleared up enough that i saw just how sorry of "friends" i really had. Once your daughters mind clears, you will see a whole other person. She very well may not even see those people as friends anymore. Thats how it was for me and like i said, this all took place within the first 3 months of sub. The main thing that really needs to take place is this, her mind an body needs time to rid itself of all the toxins and give her the chance to see reality for a change. Once this takes place, great things start happening, or at least thats how it went for me. I really think your daughter could really benefit from this treatment. I've been to rehab after rehab around 5 to be exact, i think. They never worked because my mind just couldnt fight off the urge for the drugs. I really will never understand what it is sub does but for me, it truly performed a miracle. I say miracle because it did something for me nothing else could. I am so happy and proud to be where i am today and had i not found this medication, i may not be here today. Im sure you read that all the time but for me, its so true. I really can almost guarantee if this medication is given the oportunity to do its job, your daughter will be a completely different person within 3 months time. However, im not saying its all better in 3 months but for me, the 3 months mark is when the huge visable changes started happening. It was unbelievable!! I think it would be great if she could join this forum. It has helped me tremendously. And it has so much valuable information. The people here are so great!! I wish you and your daughter the very best and i hope to here a positive update very soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Lifesaver - I'm a different person, too, since I've been on sub. And like you, it took me a few months to get my head back on straight. My addiction started around age 39 or 40 (I'm now 45), and I can tell you, I'm a MUCH better and happier person than I even was BEFORE my addiction. Being on suboxone gave me the opportunity to get my shit together and deal with what caused me to use in the first place. So count me in with those whose life was saved by suboxone, at least in part. I honestly think that had I not gone through all of this (the addiction AND the suboxone), I'd still be an unhappy, miserable person.

End rant...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:40 pm 
See, what happen to me and it could be the case in this situation is, i started using drugs at a very young age before my mind was even close to completely maturing and my brain from what i understand kinda stopped maturing or drugs slowed the process. Ever since starting sub my brain has finally had the opportunity to grow and mature so that i can see my choices and actions for what they really are. I am finally able to base a choice on the result that it will bring instead of just doing whatever pops in my head and not caring about the consequences. I cant tell you how much easier things are because of that alone. I could seriously feel myself maturing so much when my mind cleared and started thinking right. I've heard that something in the front part of your brain doesnt fully mature until the age of 25. The part that gives you impulse control, decision making etc. Anyways, i think your daughter has made a great choice and i really hope that she'll possibly join us here on this forum, if shes up for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:47 pm 
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It seems to me that especially with younger people who haven't established a career, or totally figured out who they are, haven't finished school (have a lot less to lose maybe) that it takes a little longer to stabilize. I just put my mind back to age 19 or 21 and think if I knew I only had suboxone for three months, and I was under the impression this would cure me by then, I probably wouldn't change my friends either. Three months isn't quite enough time to turn around. I definitely agree that is about when the changes start becoming visible. But then to stop at 3 months? I never would have made it. I would have just picked up another drug. In my opinion, all of us need to take great steps once getting on suboxone. Like enrolling in school. Getting that job we wanted. Getting close to our families again. You need to build your life up so that there are things to lose if you screw up. For most of us, that takes a while.

I think 8mg is a reasonable dose. In my opinion the RB patient assistance program would be a great option. As her mom, you may be able to start shopping for a doctor on her behalf, one that has availability for this program. It can take up to 3 months to get in so I would start getting her on waiting lists now if you could. If you change your mind later, you can cancel it and there is always another patient waiting to take their place. No harm done. I think dose is such an individual thing that she has to work on that with the doctor. If before she was selling it, I have to wonder if the dose was high enough to begin with. I have no idea what she was on at that point. But generally it is best in the beginning to get the person on a high enough dose that they feel totally normal and comfortable so the temptation to go back out and use is far lessened and so your receptors are saturated enough that other drugs can't get through. Then it is pointless to relapse. As her mom, I MIGHT consider watching her take it every day however. That way you will know once she puts it in her mouth and holds it there for 15 minutes....she can't exactly spit it out and sell it at that point. Heroin won't really work then either.

I feel for you. You have a long road ahead. I do think there are many ways you could still be helpful to her. Have you ever considered a family program or therapy for yourself to help YOU learn to deal with this? You need support too I am sure. It is so hard on the families.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:23 pm 
Jackcrack you are so right and what you said is how it happened for me. Sure i felt better as soon as i started taking the med but about 3 months after starting is when the changes really started happening. It was amazing!! That first 3 months is so crucial that she take it as prescribed and if i were you, i would definitely watch your daughter take her dose each day just until she got her mind in the right place. After a certain amount of time wether its 2 months 3 maybe 4, just depends but she will start coming back to reality an see things how they really are an not how she wants to see them. Things will start falling into place. For me, thats exactly how it happened. My thoughts cleared, i got a job, i got a vehicle and eventually gained my momma's trust back. These things were only the start of the changes and things i achieved starting about the 3rd month. Ever since that 3rd month i have gradually accomplished more and more and have become so much better of a person. Im happier, my life is in order and i live a normal healthy life. Not a kaotic life full of randomness. My life and daily routine is more than predictable and for me, thats a good thing. I use to be all over the place every day with my thoughts as well as what i was involved in. To have stability in my life has made all the difference. It can and will happen for your daughter as long as she is willing to surrender to anything that is ask of her. She absolutely has to go to any length to protect herself and get her recovery. When i say protect herself, i mean from those so called "friends" of hers and the places she goes. When i first started i didnt go anywhere or talk to anybody for about 4 or 5 months. It was some much needed ME time and it gave me a chance to find myself an get away from all the craziness. I guess you could say i took a break from the world. And i didnt get back out into the world until i was able to cope with life without drugs. Anyways, i wish you both the very best and hope to hear an update soon!!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:24 am 
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thank you again everybody for the help. How do I get in touch with these doctors that could get her on the program with r/b? Do I have to just start calling doctors or do I go through r/b to find the doctors in my area?? I live in a one horse town and the ONE doctor who is licensed is a shark crook snake in the grass. I will have to look in st. louis.

I talked to her tonight and told her she has to be honest with the nurse about spitting out the other sub in light of now that she got caught with them. She said she could not stay awake and that 16 made her feel terrible and that 8 worked perfect. I don't see much sense in 16 if 8 does the trick. I know I have a hard time staying out of it medically when it comes to the dosing but I am sure if starting low works why start high. Anyway, I will just have to see where that goes.

Most importantly I want to give her time to get her shit together. I really did jump her too soon the other times. Her friends welll That is a real problem and I would like to put them all on a bus to nowhere. They always like to keep her down. Someone once told me they were like crabs in a bucket...no one wants to see the other climb out. When she comes back home I can never get her to stay here. This first couple months is crucial, as you all say if I could keep her here I could keep her safe but she just bolts. I can't steal her car anymore now that it is titled in her own name. I used to steal it all the time. Changing her phone number is useless within one day she has all the numbers back. I turned her phone off and it took her one day to buy a go phone. I just hope she wants it badly enough for herself this time.

Yes I need to look into some help for myself I am a disaster and I have been doing it for so long I can barely put one foot in front of the other and I have another daughter to care for. Luckily she uses her brain cells a bit more wisely.

Sure appreciate the words of advice and I will try to get my girl to get on here if and when I get her home. I have tried the tough love too, kicking her out and both times she ended up living in her car and doing even more dope and running in the ghetto in st. louis. I was completely freaking out and am afraid to kick her out again but she does totally use me for a place to crash withdraw take a shower eat and then go use again. I prepare myself daily for "the phone call" I am a firm believer in sub as a life saver. I know it can save her if we can stick it out, find a doc to help and hopeful;ly get on that program. I will start looking tomorrow. LOVE to you all


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:29 am 
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There are 4 online doctor locators that I am aware of. They are: suboxone-directory.com, suboxone.com, naabt.org, and samhsa.gov. Yes, you'll have to start making phone calls about the patient assistance program, but at least the locators will be a place to start. I found my current doctor using one of them and it's worked out very well.

About the dosing - I believe in your daughter's case, it might be best to err on the side of a higher dose. This will address more cravings than a lower dose might. Most people just starting out on sub treatment can "feel" their dose until their opiate receptors are saturated and they are stable. Hopefully she will be honest with them and will give it a try.

I was thinking back to when I was your daughter's age and I recall how very much I used to push back when my parents tried to control me/my behavior. Whatever they insisted I do was the very polar opposite of what I ended up doing. I obviously cannot say that your daughter will do the same thing, but I did want to mention it as something you might want to think about. Perhaps if you push a little bit less, she will start to take control of her own life. I know it's a delicate balance and that this is extremely hard for you. I realize that you have to watch your very much loved daughter do this to herself yet you can't stop it. I can only imagine how frustrating and painful that must be for you.

Do remember to take care of yourself. Maybe a therapist just for you? Have you ever gone to Naranon/Alanon? Anyway, good luck to you and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:14 am 
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I agree with Melissa. I understand why and I understand the "need" to protect her. But as you have already noticed, it doesn't really work anyways. They say that often loved ones get "addicted" to the addict. Their lives revolve around them and the addiction for so long. You have taken on all her worries and all the responsibility. I think she needs to be given that back. If she doesn't own the problems and they all lie on her shoulders, she doesn't HAVE to do anything to get better because that is YOUR problem. I think she needs to take it on and fall if she needs to fall......as scary as that is. I would help her find a doctor and back out after that. Start taking care of yourself. They say that the families have to change for the addict to change. I would find a therapist who understands addiction and figure out what those changes are. I highly suggest a therapist who believes in family systems therapy. I think that would be most helpful for you AND her.

Also, back in the day, I WAS that other daughter that used my brain cells much more wisely. No ONE worried about me. I got straight A's and everything. But I was left behind. To them I seemed ok and they were busy dealing with my addict sister. Oddly, I became the true addict and she left drugs behind as a teenager. My point is, your other daughter probably needs a dose of sanity, some attention, and needs her mom back too. So long as you have taken on the stress of the addict, you can't really be there for her. As much as you care about the daughter having problems, I am sure you already know that.

All of those web sites Melissa suggested are great. It takes persistence and a lot of work generally speaking so I would start now.

Cherie

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
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