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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:01 am 
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Unbelievable - Despite my daughter, still at non-profit recovery center (since August 8), trying to go through their very loosely monitored program of in-house group sessions and outside employment related sessions, she is STILL getting the Suboxone even though they urine test her whenever she returns from being out on a pass, or so she claims.

The problem is they are not giving her the one for Buprenorphine even though I have repeatedly asked them to do so. She claims they are giving her the right test but they won't talk to me to confirm this even though I have a legal waiver of liability to disclose her health and treatment records, signed and notarized by her. I also cannot get a call back from the sub doctor who is dispensing these to her and he also has the same disclosure waiver. Do I need to file this in court or what?

Yesterday she came home on a day pass with another court ordered in-patient addict from the facility. She has been exposed to some really hard core addicts since she's been there. They have phones, money and cars. The facility's protocol is the first 7 days are inpatient with no passes. After that you are allowed to go to outside help sessions provided you adhere to a 10PM curfew. Supposedly you are tested each time you re-enter and most fall off the wagon and are kicked out and returned to jail. But my daughter is slipping under the radar and I can't do anything to stop it. I believe that the only reason she is even doing this is to appease the courts, show them she went through a "rehab" program voluntarily.

As background for those not following this, she was a Vicodin addict from 2000-2003 while her husband was fighting testicular cancer working up to 90 pills every 5 days. The day he died she wrote 2 RXs on a stolen pad from one of her many doctor shopping heists. Was caught, arrested and did 2 yrs. probation, during which time she got on Suboxone. She has been on 6 cycles of detoxing off Sub, relapsing and has been jailed 2 more times, one for missing probation appt. and then again last August for forging my checks. I have had legal guardianship of her 3 children since 2003 and am now 65 doing this alone. During this time she has lived with me and the children and has spent 365 days a year in bed during daylight hours, unemployed. She has gone through 18 sub doctors, who usually drop her for writing a bad check. 3 of the 18 have lost their DEA waiver (to dispense controlled Sched II-V) for breaking the rules.

She currently has 3 outstanding arrest warrants, one for writing another bad check and blowing off court, and two more thefts of personal property. She has stolen and pawned anything and everything she can to get her Suboxone. It has an unbelievable grip on her and she cannot do without it. She has NOT taken anything else and doesn't drink or smoke. She pawned my jewelry, her sisters jewelry, the neighbors jewelry, her own childrens computers, game system, IPODs and cell phones. The facility she is in is 65 miles away and 2 counties over. The police here are not interested in pursuing her.

I know everything there is to know about Sub. Everything there is to know about addiction. I have very little hope left that
she will recover. I mourned her death years ago. I only see the shell of her body and those glazed pinpoint pupil eyes staring back. It is my prayer that the makers of this horrible drug and GW Bush's DATA 2000 and all the slugs who are dispensing it for the money burn in hell.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:30 pm 
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I have read all of your posts about your daughter and feel for you.
But the statement "I know everything there is to know about Sub. Everything there is to know about addiction. I have very little hope left that she will recover. I mourned her death years ago. I only see the shell of her body and those glazed pinpoint pupil eyes staring back. It is my prayer that the makers of this horrible drug and GW Bush's DATA 2000 and all the slugs who are dispensing it for the money burn in hell." is harsh and possible inappropriate for this site. This site is a place of support and information for those on suboxone and families. For most people this drug has been a tool in saving their lives. If their was no suboxone your daughter would still be taking vicodin or some other pain pills. She would be lying and stealing to get her hands on money for those pills too.
Now with that being said. From all your previous posts about your daughter I have always thought that she IS NOT being honest with you. Even though you got all those forms signed so that you are able to find out information about her treatment, I'd bet a million dollars that she asked for them back, signed new papers not allowing you the information(she does have that right), and has told them not to release information to you.
How do you think she is affording the Suboxone right now.
Maybe you should write the DA about your daughter. Let them know that she needs some kind of help. Perhaps they could order her into some kind of treatment facility or therapy. The court system often has resources to get offenders into these type of programs that the general public doesn't have asses to.
Honestly I'm racking my brain trying to come up with some advice for you. I know that on other threads many think that long term suboxone would do wonders for her, but she isn't able to afford the medication. Therefore she isn't taking it properly and that does NO good. But if she takes a little one day and a little 4 days later-- she probable is feeling the effects of the medication. Do you know how Suboxone works? I'm don't know how to explain it so I won't(don't want to give you the wrong information).
I guess I have 2 suggestions for you.
1. If your daughter is going to keep taking the suboxone AND if you are going to allow her back into your home set some ground rules. She needs to get a job. She then can use that money to pay for her medication and Dr.'s appointments. During day time hours that she isn't looking for a job-have chores for her do to. At night no TV, computer, ect. Is she on a good sleep schedule at the facility? I imagine that they have a set time that they need to be up by and they are probable not allowed to go to sleep during the day. Have her attend a X amount of meetings per week. Have rules at your house just as a half way house would.
2. My second suggestion is maybe it's time to break away from her. Don't let her come home, don't give her money, ect. Maybe try going to Al Anon. It is a support group for the families of alcoholics. They teach you on how not to enable and how to get your self back in to a health mind frame, and how to not let the addiction interfere with your life. There maybe a Narc anon meeting geared for families of addicts. But in my experience there are a lot more AA/alanon meetings vs NA/Nacranon. The Al anon meetings have the same information/principals as the Narc anon. When they say alcohol you substitute addict in you head.
I wish I had something better to say, but I don't. You are in my prayers and PLEASE try to take care of yourself.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Well said, smnell. I second it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:16 pm 
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I don't know whether to be happy or sad. The non profit rehab/domestic abuse center she was in has given her their 10 week sendoff, allowing her to come back every Monday for an after care class. It's 130 mi. round trip. While she was there she has made alot of friends, none of them good. Two she knows have died. One from an overdose/alcohol mix and one was beaten to death by her boyfriend. She has plenty of stories to share - Enough for another book. Let me get "Living with the Devil" published first.

I am concerned about her going back because of what the inmates have taught her and their connections. She has definitely seen the worse of the worse. They consider her lucky that she is only addicted to Suboxone and she is the only one who they have allowed in for Sub addiction. They had to look it up and at one point were going to let her go because her addiction was not a lethal one.

Having said that, she acts and appears normal. But every time she catches me trying to see if her pupils are constricted, she turns away. Buprenorphine tests are the only way I will know for certain. As her mother I want to trust her and help her but know I can not.

She has a long way to go. There is a half way house for women just a few miles away but they will not allow her in because she has outstanding warrants. In fact, the police could come here at any time if they know she is home and take her away. Her warrants are for stealing jewelry and electronics from family and friends and pawning them to buy Suboxone. She did this while out on bail for my August 2010 charge of stealing and forging my checks. This doesn't even go to court until Feb. 2012! Without a job, this was the only way she could maintain her Sub habit. It had a grip on her like nothing I hae ever witnessed. She would do anything, say anthing to stay on Sub. But it had an adverse effect on her and she was having to take sleeping pills to get to sleep, then that went into a cycle of sleeping all day then up all night.

On a more positive note, she has a job working as a server at a popular Italian chain restaurant. She has worked the 30 day requirement to qualify for a transfer to her home area. This is her first job in 11 years. When her husband was dying of cancer in 2003, she was hopelessly hooked on Vicodin. Her illness was severe depression. When I hear of others coming on this site and saying they can control their opiate intake, they are in denial and only fooling themselves.

She calls herself an addict and this in itself is a first. I'm hoping it's a first step on her long road to recovery. She has an even longer road rebuilding her relationship with her children who I have been raising since 2003. I so want my life back.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Thanks for the update. I've been following all of your threads since the very first and the situation with your daughter still makes no sense to me. Being in active addiction using ONLY suboxone or in other words addicted TO suboxone...? This shouldn't (can't?) happen...I'm shaking my head. She's got to be taking something else, that's how I see it. Or to give a better educated theory I'd have to know a lot more about the situation than it's possible to know from an online forum.

I wish I had answers or some kind of guidance or hope for you, but I'm at a loss. And I'm sorry for that. All I can do is keep stressing the need to take care of YOU during all of this. There's only so much one person can do to change another person. The rest is completely beyond your control. My best to you.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:42 pm 
I have been following this story since your first post and out of respect for someone who is clearly co dependently struggling with the disease of addiction I haven't said anything about many of your mean-spirited, passive-aggressive and negative quips but I can no longer hold back...I guess I just came to the realization that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to hold back my feelings about what you are saying out of 'respect,' when I don't feel as though you have much, if any, respect for addicts in general.

Living with the Devil wrote:
While she was there she has made a lot of friends, none of them good.


It sounds to me from this statement as well as previous negative statements regarding clients at the facility your daughter is in that you have a low opinion of people who you deem yourself to be better than. It is statements and opinions like this that perpetuate the negative stigma of addiction today. You are the mother of an addict, your daughter is an addict, neither one of you are better or worse than anyone else..addict or not!

Living with the Devil wrote:
I am concerned about her going back because of what the inmates have taught her and their connections.


'Inmates?!?' Is your daughter in jail or prison all of a sudden? In all of your posts regarding this facility you refer to the other patients as inmates, which is incorrect and insulting. The terms you should be using are patients or clients. Also, I had been to treatment many, many times before I finally WANTED to clean up and did. I certainly made some connections in treatment, but I had plenty of my own too. So, essentially what I am saying is what's the difference?

Living with the Devil wrote:
She has definitely seen the worse of the worse.


Again, extremely negative. I'm not sure what this means, honestly, except that it is a passive-aggressive way of saying 'look how much better I am than that person..'. Is someone struggling with addiction that is in a cycle of abuse scum-of-the-earth, lower-than-low? Or, are they people who are in a facility court-ordered or not, maybe, just maybe, opening their minds to the possibility of getting help to find a way to live a life worth living?

Living with the Devil wrote:
They consider her lucky that she is only addicted to Suboxone and she is the only one who they have allowed in for Sub addiction.


IF this is true, I'd say that she probably IS the only one admitted for Suboxone 'addiction' because 99.99999% of people who are on Suboxone do not continue behaviors conducive to active addiction while on Suboxone and therefore don't need the help of facilities to get off of the medication.

Living with the Devil wrote:
They had to look it up and at one point were going to let her go because her addiction was not a lethal one.


Sounds like a jab at the facility AGAIN, you're more or less saying 'they're so worthless that they don't even know what Suboxone is..' which seems extremely unlikely to me since you have already stated that your daughter has personally 'been through' 18 local Suboxone doctors....It seems like people in the field of addiction around you would be familiar with the medication... I'd be hard-pressed NOT to agree with the statement that 'suboxone addiction' isn't a fatal condition, but at the same time people are admitted to treatment facilities day in and day out with their drug of choice being marijuana, which we all know also isn't a drug that in and of itself causes fatalities.

Living with the Devil wrote:
But every time she catches me trying to see if her pupils are constricted, she turns away.


Suboxone constricts pupils in some people, but not typically to the same degree as full-agonists. Suboxone constricts pupils in my experience to the same degree as, say, sunlight. I understand that your daughter isn't in any position at this time for you to trust her in any way, but at the same time I understand how you feel, I also understand how she feels: degraded.

Living with the Devil wrote:
Buprenorphine tests are the only way I will know for certain.


I would be completely amazed if she tests positive for ONLY buprenorphine....Completely amazed.

Living with the Devil wrote:
Without a job, this was the only way she could maintain her Sub habit.


First time for everything, I guess, but 'sub habit?!' In an area where there are AT LEAST 18 suboxone dr's that your daughter has already seen, I would think that there might be at least one she could have found in the years and years that Suboxone alone has been destroying her life that would accept some kind of state-funded insurance, or at the very least state-funded insurance would have paid a large amount of the prescription costs....

Living with the Devil wrote:
When I hear of others coming on this site and saying they can control their opiate intake, they are in denial and only fooling themselves.


THIS is the line that finally sent me over the edge and started this response to you. I'm assuming you are speaking of the majority of users on this site, A SUBOXONE FORUM, who are on Suboxone currently? I don't know of anyone on this site who claims to be able to control their use of any opioids other than Buprenorphine and Methadone...I think that many, many people have related to you that what you are alleging is your daughters 'Suboxone addiction' is completely off the radar as far as anything any of us have experienced or even remotely heard about.

Living with the Devil wrote:
She calls herself an addict and this in itself is a first. I'm hoping it's a first step on her long road to recovery.


I have the same hope for her as a fellow addict and as a human being. For me personally, I couldn't get honest about anything or even look at how things in my life were askew until I made the simple and blatantly obvious to everyone around me admission that I was indeed an addict.

Living with the Devil wrote:
I so want my life back.


This is my wish for you also. Many people have already encouraged you to stay healthy for yourself. I get the vibe from keeping up with the story that you are a codependent mother. I'm guessing that much of your identity is wrapped up in the identities of those around you. I'm guessing that if things go your version of well with your daughter your mood elevates up and when things aren't going your version of well your mood elevates down? What if, god forbid, your daughter never gets better and only gets worse? At what point are you going to decide that you need to remain healthy for your own well-being?

Living with the Devil wrote:
The problem is they are not giving her the one for Buprenorphine even though I have repeatedly asked them to do so.


Unfortunately, you are not in control of this situation. Buprenorphine is not regularly placed on panel tests because, again, 99.9999999% people do not have negative issues with the medication. If the facility doesn't utilize buprenorphine, there's virtually no reason for them to stock an extremely expensive test that is more or less unneeded.

Living with the Devil wrote:
they won't talk to me to confirm this even though I have a legal waiver of liability to disclose her health and treatment records, signed and notarized by her. I also cannot get a call back from the sub doctor who is dispensing these to her and he also has the same disclosure waiver. Do I need to file this in court or what?


Both separate facilities would needs to have a current (valid, within the last year) official release of information, signed by your daughter at the facility, outlining what pieces of information can and cannot be released. Unless she is a minor or has been deemed in court to need a guardian ad litem and you have been appointed such, she has every right to have her medical information private. Any doctor, nurse, counselor, therapist, social worker or employee of a facility giving you information without having a release of information would be criminally liable to prosecution.

Living with the Devil wrote:
Yesterday she came home on a day pass with another court ordered in-patient addict from the facility. She has been exposed to some really hard-core addicts since she's been there. They have phones, money and cars.


You and I have much different visions of 'hard core addicts.' None of the 'hard core addicts' I knew woke up with five cents each day, much less phones, cash and cars...

Living with the Devil wrote:
I believe that the only reason she is even doing this is to appease the courts, show them she went through a "rehab" program voluntarily.


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but on a positive note, maybe she'll just pick up something positive?


So, here's my bestest guess: At this time while in the facility, your daughter IS possibly on ONLY Suboxone, it sounds to me from your posts since she has been in the facility she has been doing much, much better than she was outside of the facility. Now, that being said, when she was with you prior to the facility I have no doubt that she had Suboxone and was telling you that ALL she was using was Suboxone, but it sounds to me like she was likely using a multitude of other substances and probably having suboxone around to fall back on when she needed it (couldn't get other drugs) or maybe even around to say 'look, this is all I have...it's just Suboxone...' I think it's extremely unfortunate that your daughter has used Suboxone as a scapegoat in this way, as it has likely biased your opinion of a treatment and medication that, if used correctly, certainly has a high potential to make life livable for a section of opioid addicts who in years past have more or less been destined to suffer with or eventually die from the disease of addiction.

I really wish you and your daughter the best and I DO look forward to updates, positive or not. Like I said, some of the things you had to say offended me in that I thought they were....mean-spirited.... Then again, my motto has always been "though I don't agree with what you have to say, I will defend to the death your right to say it!" Good luck in all aspects of life for you and your daughter!

-Travis


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:43 am 
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Thanks Travis!

I feel very sorry for the OP, and for her daughter.....and for the children.

Addiction is so hard for the entire family.

I believe the OP's daughter is suffering from a combination of addiction AND an undiagnosed mental illness. And, I feel that its a shame that she's apparently not being properly treated for ALL of her issues and for her disease of addiction..

I pray that she somehow receives help that WILL make a difference.

Members of our site have given the OP support and suggestions. I guess it wasn't appreciated.

I too feel that some of the statements Living W/The Devil made were inconsiderate, inaccurate, rude, and mean.

Living W/The Devil appears to have ALOT of hate for a mediction which is saving MY LIFE.......AND SO MANY OTHER ADDICT'S LIVES.

Thank you for standing up for us Travis!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:06 am 
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Living with the devil... There is still a lot you don't know about addiction. And judging by what I have read, there is still a lot you do not know about your daughter.

Frankly, there is a lot in your account of your daughter that doesn't make sense to me, so I will refrain from commenting my thoughts. It must be very hard for you though.

There is a pervading sense of blame in your writing, as if you don't know who or what to blame for your daughter's condition. Ever heard the saying that addiction is a "no blame" illness? Who do you blame when someone gets cancer?

I would like to say though that people who have spent time in jail in the past are not called "inmates", just like people who were once in nappies are not forever infants. You cannot tar people for life just because of some past mistakes.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:29 am 
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To all those who have responded to my posts, especially Smnell, Hatmaker, Travis and Marie:

Don't think for a minute that I don't appreciate your feedback - good and bad. You must understand my posts do not intend to demean those who have this disease, because when we have an addict in the house we ALL live with the disease. I am writing from a place of extreme frustration and heartbreak. I distrust because I have been hurt, emotionally and financially by my daughter. Her children are angry and frustrated because she has let them down so many times. They say things like "I hate you; You are nothing but a liar: I want to punch you out: I don't care about you-just go away!"

I am angry because I have witnessed doctors dole out opiate RXs to my daughter and other family members when there is no legitimate reason to do so. Whenever my daughter goes to a doctor or dentist or the hospital (as she did with kidney stones) I have to make certain they do not give her opiates, not even Tylenol with Codeine. I have personally talked to Sub doctors who say repeatedly to my daughter she "will be on this drug for life." They say she has a "benign addiction" -- it won't kill her. It was quite an eye-opener to hear from the party (Clint) who's fiancee is on Sub in Utah that her doctor wanted to get her off of it in a month. If only there were procedural codes written into DATA 2000 prior to waiver certification that can be monitored and enforced. I do believe Sub has it's place as a withdrawal drug for those addicted to opiates. It has to have a taper off plan over a period of 4-6 months. But it has a grip on you like nothing I have ever seen when you try to leave it, 100% relapse rate according to clinical trials they are only now getting into.

I have only seen normal pupils in my daughter 4 times in the last 8 years. (Count 11 years if you add the 3 yrs of Vicodin use). All of them was when she got out of jail. It was like someone handing you your baby who was stolen at birth. Oh the joy to have her back and you hug her and hold on to her and talk to her and she understands and loves you back. But then someone takes her away again . . . and you don't know when or if she will come back.

So if you have to pretty much be incarcerated to get off of Suboxone, then doesn't that defeat it's intention? Wasn't that the reason Beckitt Renckhiser sold the drug to the Bush administration as a way to keep the jails unencumbered by the "benign addicts?" Think about it, they are not being jailed for being addicts but what they had to do maintain their addiction, ie stealing, prostitution, etc. So how did that work for you George? Sure made a lot of doctors richer though.

In the comment I made about her meeting the worst of the worst while in rehab. Her "friends" are inmates. Fellow mates she befriended who stayed in the facility. They are now her support group and I'm glad for her and for them because she is a good person and does have a big heart. But I gotta be honest, I don't want her bringing another one of them into my home. They call all hours of the night. The 24 yr. old with 3 kids who manufactured meth-amphetimine for 10 yrs. and spent 3 in prison and lost all her children, well she is back in prison. Then there is the one who had my daughter coach her labor while she gave birth to her baby girl (on crack for the first 7 months) then followed her to my house when the baby was only 5 days old. She sold her monthly foodstamps for $100 and threw her baby in a dumpster. Another lady was a co-dependent alcoholic who just had her eye removed yesterday after being beaten by her boyfriend.

I know there are some mothers out there in my position and it would be nice to hear how they handled it. It the meantime, thanks for taking the time you all did to help me. It enlightened me in many ways.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:37 am 
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It's not that we don't understand from where you are coming. We hear that you are hurt, upset, afraid, and angry and who knows what else. And I don't blame you at all. But you're making false statements about suboxone. You are presenting your opinions as fact. There are no studies that illustrate that suboxone has a 100% relapse rate when someone tapers off of it. If you have a study to back that up, please present it.

You have intense emotions about this situation and who wouldn't? But you are blaming a PILL for your daughter's issues and for issues that you have with her DOCTORS. How can you blame a MEDICATION for those things? It's a PILL! When it's taken correctly it's a very safe and effective treatment - WHEN USED CORRECTLY and I think we all agree that your daughter is not using it correctly.

I know you want to blame someone and again, I understand that. But sometimes there simply isn't anyone to blame. Like someone said, who do you blame when someone comes up with cancer?

I'm so sorry you're going through this. But try to get some perspective on this and ascertain who you are really angry with.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:56 am 
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Have you been to any Al-Anon meetings recently?

I know it's really hard, and God knows I put my family through a lot and it pains me to think of the pain I put them through when I was sick.

But you ..have to.. find a way to step back and take care of yourself.

I will tell you one thing I learnt in my addiction. There will always be drugs available to addicts in some form. You cannot blame dealers, doctors, pharmaceutical companies... As long as people are born with the disease of addiction, there will be drugs. And if there weren't drugs, people will just find other vices to get addicted to.

Unfortunately, and I say this based on my experience and those of nearly every other recovering addict I know. People will use drugs until they are ready and willing to stop.

When you get stuck in this blame game, you are basically letting yourself get pulled down with the negativity of your daughter's addiction, and this doesn't help anyone, and only hurts you. Instead try to step in and be of assistance when your daughter has an opportunity to get better, or is trying to get better. Help her when she wants to help herself, and take care of yourself when you have no control. It's really hard, but it's the only thing that helps. At times I felt my mother didn't care about me anymore and I felt disowned, but I understand why she did it now, and I have no resentment. I wouldn't have wanted to be around me either!

I also gotta say. There is a difference between abusing Suboxone and using Suboxone. Why do you feel your daughter is abusing Suboxone? Is she getting multiple scripts from doctors, taking more than prescribed?

When Suboxone is taken as prescribed, it can be of great assistance in recovery. People who do this are actually "moving forward" and further out of addiction. People who abuse suboxone are the ones who are "moving backwards", further into addiction. Really look at how your daughter is taking Suboxone. What evidence is there of abuse? Is her life improving?

Also, people who are stabilised on Suboxone generally don't have tiny pupils. I'm on 12mg, and my pupils look no different to anyone else. It's the other opiates that "pin" the pupils. And generally the other opiates that land people in jail. Don't lump Suboxone along with the other opiates - the Vicodins, Oxycontins, heroin etc. Suboxone, and to a degree methadone, can be effective "stepping stones" to getting off opiates. You just gotta be patient.

T


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:00 am 
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I just wanted to add that I'm on 16+ mg of sub per day and I've always had pretty darn small pupils - some would even say pinpoint. It's been like that since I started on sub. Some people are just like that. Others, like tearj3rker, aren't affected - or I should say their pupils aren't affected like mine are. Just FYI.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:08 pm 
How old is the daughter?

At some point, you gotta let an adult run their life, as painful as that can be.

OP, you are clearly sick over this. I am 22 years old, and I have to tell you that my parents nearly had to let go. At one point, I was living in a halfway house and they were paying the rent and giving me $30 a week for groceries. No phone, no nothing..for awhile I lived with my supplier..it was bad. I came home one night begging for one final chance, got on Suboxone, and finally stopped. I am very glad that my mother sensed that something was different and decided to help me then..but she made it clear that it was my LAST shot.

Your daughter needs to decide to stop on her own, you cannot make the decision for her.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:38 pm 
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I agree with Ironic ^^^

I pushed my mother to her limits and she finally said that she is sending me to detox one final time and if i get on pills again she is washing her hands of me. she detoxed me on her own 7 times and sent me to detox twice. I relapsed after detox but i didnt tell my mom (to this day) and i went to my mom and said "im gettting on usboxone my couselor recommended it and got me into a program. you cant save your daughter, she isnt a 12 year old who is getting hurt on her bike outside, this is serious and im sure you know that however she has to make up her mind that she is going to do this. at this point it seems like she is just using you to buy time so she doesnt have to work a program and grow up.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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