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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:26 pm 
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I posted my experience and strategy getting off subutex, however I want to share a friends story since I have his permission. Its interesting !
This guy is a Veteran like me, we were both in the VA Subutex program.
He got on subutex because he was concerned about his liver. He was taking handfuls of Vicodin to kill back pain and get high.
The VA, for reasons I will never understand put him on 32mg's a day.
two 8mg tabs in the morn and two 8mg tabs at night.....i know crazy
Well it gets crazier... He was on this dose for about the same length of time as me
1.5 years
He went on Vacation, got to the country he was visiting and realized....no Suboxone!
Spent the whole 2 weeks there and had a blast.
He did so well when he came back to the VA he insisted he stay off of the drug.
No one in group believed his story, we thought he must have took something.
Our Doctor didn't even believe it.
Week goes by, with permission from the patient the clinic ran some tests.
Blood work to be exact since urine can be manipulated. That Friday we are all in group and sure enough doctor confirms, this guy is not on any Opiates, and the amount of Subutex in his blood just shy of 3 weeks was almost non existent.
How this guy stopped at 32mgs a day after 1.5 years is a mystery, sure there is always the possibility that we were fed false information but I genuinely believe it.
Is it really that hard to believe ?
I got to day 13 with hardly any symptoms.
The mind does this amazing thing of protecting you when it knows there are no options left.
I think it was Einstein that said, "Never underestimate mans ability to elevate his life through conscious endeavor."
and just like the U.S. Army says, "soldiers that whine the most cry the loudest, don't worry about a soldier until he STOPS bitching"
All I'm saying, is reading your guys HORROR Stories was the hardest part for me.
Once I got into the woods I realized it wasn't that bad, even though my strategy for getting off Subutex is highly controversial.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:58 pm 
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I suppose stranger things have happened. :lol:

I think there might be more than a few people who come off Sub with little or no trouble, we just don't hear about it because they're not on the internet looking for support and help.

I was in the Probuphine study when I started treatment and the VA was running the study. They'd just finished a Suboxone study and they told me most of the participants had a pretty smooth taper process and it was pretty fast. Who knows?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Well this is great news for me then! Since I get my suboxone from the VA! LOL! Not too sure I can wroap my head around ZERO withdrawals, but hey, who am I to judge?! That's terrific, and I am glad to hear that he had such a smooth taper.
Best of Luck to you both moving forward!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:17 pm 
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I'm really glad you shared this story with us. I honestly believe that the mind can do great things, if we let it do it's thing...

I am glad to read success stories like this, like you said, there are a lot of horror stories on the net everywhere, not just here, about how bad the w/ds can be getting off the sub. Like Goinstong says, it's hard for me to wrap my mind around ZERO withdrawls, but I guess stranger things have happened.

You said he went on vacation and had a blast during the time he stopped. Maybe his positive attitude, having fun and staying busy on vacation really did work to his benefit and he had no w/ds or maybe he even had a little bit, but keeping busy kept him from staying in bed or not leaving the house and going thru hell because he was focused more on that.

I don't know, but I am still glad to hear this, gives me more hope when it's time for me to make that jump!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:20 am 
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Definitely, check out my other thread about my experience.
But be warned I might not be a good influence on some people...lol
This guy is almost a freak of nature, he's twice my age and I got the Paws and Im definitely in better shape than this guy.
I think your right, we pump ourselves up soooo much before we do these things that our minds facilitate our W/D expectations.
Even today I feel achy, still sneezing but I like that and have a bit of upset tummy. This is the end of week 4 for me.
But I can still have fun, go to church, meetings, play video games...blah blah blah
I got frustrated with singing the blues and moved on.
Thing is this guy told me, he thought there were supposed to be no WD from subutex.
It seems what he believed became reality, which even though Im not big into this stuff would constitute, "the law of attraction"
anyways, running out of time....lots to do today. I'll keep you guys posted.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:14 pm 
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that's a cool story. Every once in a while i hear about people who've drank for 30 years or done lots of drugs for a long time and then stopped cold turkey and avoided withdrawal completely. Its amazing.

Unfortunately, most people can't really expect that. Most people will experience some degree of withdrawal from addictive substances, and i'd say its a safety mechanism in a way-if they didnt, people wouldnt have to be so careful about what they took, they would be able to get severely addicted to anything and not have to worry about coming off.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Awesome story!

And Diary of a Quitter, you make a very, very good point. People who didn't have troubles quitting aren't here on the internet looking for help websites because they don't need help! So we don't hear from them.

I started my taper under .5 this week, and I have been having annoying nausea, a very hard time sleeping, and my mind can't stop thinking. Before when I was tapering, NONE of this happened! I think I'm just so worried about it that I'm getting all of these symptoms!

I will try so, so hard to believe your guys' stories. The doctors say you shouldn't get sub withdraws and I like to think that they're right. Serious_Biz, I hope that everything stays smooth as it has been! Oh, and 32 mg does seem like a very high dose, but my friend gets 80 mg per day - 2 strips, every 4-6 hours. It his been this way for over 2 years, and now, his last visit the doctor said that the DEA is cracking down and has to reduce his dose.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Hey there, well I just got home and checked this forum. This community is crazy awesome.
I dont know if you read my other thread but I been off Suboxone, (jumped at 6mg) for 4 weeks today.
I started taking a low dose of Vicodin on day 13 but I really am not beating myself up about it anymore.
To be honest up until day 13 wasnt that bad, I still slept kinda uncomfortably for 5-6 hours a night with the help of Unisom.
Getting to the point I simply became impatient with this PAWS process
I take half a vic in the morn and half at night...2.5mg Hydrocodone 2x a day
For me I just deal with aches and pains through the day, a little bit of restless body but staying active helps.
With moral certainty I will say this...

If you do not find something you love in life, more than getting high, your addiction will always be stronger than you.
Waylon from The Wire said, "I can sit here and tell you how strong I am, how much will to stay clean I have. But the truth is my addiction is in the parking lot doing push ups and taking steroids...Waiting to kick my ass the second I walk out of here!"

I am back to where I started before all this, and I am truly thankful. I thought Suboxone WD were gonna be so bad I would either have to always take it...or switch to a strong Pain killer. But I get by just fine with a half a vicodin in the morn and half at night. Which is less than the first day I ever took a Vicodin for pain.
At the hight of my addiction I was taking Oxycodone and Norcos, around three at a time.

I am not justifying my strategy, I am only making myself feel good for not being secretive.
I would love to sit here and tell you how Im on week 4 with no help
This takes discipline, I would be lying if I said the thought hasn't crossed my mind to sneak one in during the day. But as a God fearing man, I made a promise to the only thing I fear more than my addiction.

Becoming passionate is essential. Passionate about something. Find it...

For me the answer is simple.

The best time of my life was spent in Iraq, best feeling I ever experienced, Ive never been able to match it. Miss it terribly. Been there twice. Im trying to find a Unit that is in, or going to Afghanistan, which is harder than you would think...lol I love that feeling of being forced to only focus on the moment. No past, no future...just what is simply happening now. tried skydiving, bungee jumping, pills, motorcycles...etc. Nothing does it for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:16 pm 
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I regret not saying this earlier - Thank-you for serving our country. That's a very important job and it takes a lot of willpower and strength to do it. I think it's great that you want to be in active duty. That means you really are suited for the job. I'm naive about the service, but when I watched Restrepo, the whole time I watched it I wanted to join the army. I know I know, I know nothing about it, I wouldn't last, w/e. But there was something about what you said... about living in the moment. Focusing on what you had to do. There's something about that that I can't put into words. It is like, a long time ago, we never had time to be with ourselves. We had to always be on the lookout, or doing things, working, staying alive. Making fire, shelter, finding food, making clothes, blankets, tools. We didn't have time to ponder our self-worth, whether we had a purpose. But now, we have to learn how to deal with ourselves. Being alone with ourselves. Were we meant to be alone with ourselves? Does it serve a purpose? It seems to create a lot of problems. Drug addiction being one of them. Depression being another. Anxiety being another. We have this brain that has no rule book. No guidelines. We are stuck in our minds to fend for ourselves, trying to figure out all the processes and feelings -- being too conscious for our own good. I don't know what I'm trying to say here but I think it's related to what makes addiction so dang hard to conquer. Maybe it's just laziness. Something about how our instincts are still ruling us -- we don't jump the gun unless our lives depend on it. Guess it's one of those thing I know I have to work on -- because I know there are some people out there who constantly are working, getting things done, making a difference. I want to be one of those people some day... I don't want to be someone who sits around stuck in my head high on opiates.

Loved the analogy about the parking lot


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:28 pm 
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You know, I think we just like our creature comforts.
I'm always gonna be a guy that has some beers on the weekends or goes to a bar and has a good time with friends.
Maybe even a guy that pops a pill from time to time. This is just who I am, and Im ok with that.
For me its all about discipline, and keeping my reward system in check.
I let it get out of control, but this is no crime. Wanting to get clean is a sign of a healthy mind and body.

Now for some controversy... I think addicts should be thrown in jail. As long as the withdrawal is not Benzo or Alcohol because obviously those can kill you, but hardly ever. The reason I say this is because our brains do this amazing thing and protect us when there is no other options available. On the outside this is much harder to do. Im not saying you wont feel like shit for a while, but all the stimuli will help you through. I think back to my first 4 years in the Army, guys were popping pills left and right. Even though I wasn't using back then I can remember guys complaining about running out of Oxy's or morphine for a day or so and BAM! right back on mission the next day smoking and joking. Too busy to moan and groan. Your brains too busy focusing on the mission. This happens in jail a lot but not exactly the same.

I think a lot of us are too weak and too creative to fight our addictions, sometimes you just need to live life and let that cure you...


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