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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:05 pm 
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I love methadone, it is my drug of choice. I was doing a taper at a methadone clinic to get OFF the stuff and was down to about 20 mg and started chippying around, buying doses on the street just as I had been before. I don't know why. This stuff baffles me, as they say.

I told my counselor at the clinic what I was doing because I couldn't stand the deception any longer, and she has BAM! stopped the detox, they are going to "stabilize me," jack me back up to 40 mg with no chance to go down. I asked her what I would have to do to be eligible for subox and she said she did not want to "future trip" with me.

Does this make sense, to not even allow me to consider subox now? And to keep me taking the drug I adore and in fact increasing my dose?

I hardly know what to do. Of course, that's not new! I'm an addict. I haven't known what to do since the day I was born. But with regards to this situation I am in with my clinic, I am dumbfounded. I probably should not have told her.

Ideas, anyone?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:41 pm 
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I can certainly understand why the clinic is again raising your dose. It seems clear that you are not yet ready to stop maintenance at this time. They are raising the dose to keep you safe. However, there is absolutely no reason that you can't move to Suboxone. In fact, if you are down to 20 mg of Methadone it would be a relatively painless transfer and this would be the perfect time. There are all sorts of reasons why this councilor may not want to move you to Suboxone - including the fact that they may not be approved to offer Suboxone and therefore are keeping you on something that they can provide. I can't guess what is in her head. I guess the bigger question is, why are you allowing this person to make decisions for you about your life? Certainly it is their job to make recommendations and as addicts we often need to listen to what our care providers instruct us to do. Having said that, we still have the final say in any of this. Don't let this person or anyone else make decisions about YOUR life. If you think you should move to Suboxone, and by the way, I think that is an excellent decision, then by all means, explore it and perhaps do it. You may well need to find a different provider but I'm positive there are Suboxone providers out there that will be very willing to move you to Suboxone. Take charge of YOUR LIFE. Don't let others do it for you!

Good luck and please keep us informed. I'm sure others will be along who can help you more.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:57 pm 
I agree with donh. Also, i switched from 30mg's of methadone to 24mg's of sub, then to 16mg's sub with not one single problem. It seems now would be the perfect time to switch since your already down to 20mg's and i also think it would be a great choice :D . Although, when i made the switch i waited 6 long agonizing days before i could get an appointment however i really think this helped keep me from having PWD's.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:15 pm 
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This clinic is where I have put my money at the moment. They DO offer suboxone -- in fact, that is why I went there in the first place, but then allowed myself to get talked out of it and to taper off methadone, which I simply am not capable of doing. It is hard to find a provider in my neck of the woods who doesn't want an arm and a leg. And what is so frustrating is that they COULD switch me at this clinic, but now, evidently, they WON'T! So I guess I just have to bite the bullet and be on 40 mg for a while as they like and until they decide that I am "stable" enough to go down!

It just seems crazy to me. It seems like a power trip on their part.

I will keep you posted though.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:44 pm 
This sounds like some kind of psych ward telling the patient that he/she will be up for release once they take his/her medication and stabilizes lol. Im sorry but this just seems wrong for them to have that kind of control of you. They cant force you to take something and you have the right to taper an switch to suboxone. Your not in a mental hospital. Im sorry if my analogy's sound harsh but its just what came to mind. Also, if im wrong please forgive me but i just cant imagine a person not being allowed to make choices for themselves when it comes to their health and their own body. Something just dont sound right with this. I mean, if you wanna stick it out with methadone thats one thing. But if your wanting to taper down with the methadone an switch or even stop, they cant stop you from doing that. To the best of my knowledge they cant anyways. Thats like they know they have you where they want you and their controlling you because they know they can. Thats just flat out wrong!! Do you think they just want your money?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:56 pm 
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Lifesaver...I just laughed my ass off with your last sentence in above post...do they want your money? I was at a methadone clinic that would NOT HELP ME TAPER DOWN. They kept telling me it wasn't time yet. And upped my dose. I left that clinic and found another one even though it meant an hour drive. Obviously I'd drive 20 hours to get my doc so it wasn't that big of a deal, but it sucked because I was just fine at the first clinic. YES. They want money. Not everyone feels that way and a lot of counselors really do care. The power plays, however, are just outta control. We do have to take control of our own lives and not let anyone detract us from our goals.

Maryilyn....I agree with other posts that you are in a perfect position to do Sub. I PM'd you about the dr....
I jumped from 75mg methadone, went 6 days without and then inducted without problems. In fact, I could have probably inducted earlier but was afraid. So go for it! My dr. is very reasonable and you will like him I think.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Chinagirl, I made an appointment with the dr you recommended. Just got done talking to him. I like him already! He says to try to stay at 20 mg until my appt the 10th of January. I don't think my clinic will go for that, so I will just have to see what I can do. If I say I am going to be leaving them they might do something horrible to me like cut me off, so I will just have to go with the flow.

Frankly, I am afraid of inducting on too high a dose of methadone, and not being able to get down to that low dose that is required!

Anyway, things are looking up, I think. What I liked about this doc was he recommends being on subox for around four months and then tapering off. I like that idea. I like it a lot! I just don't know if I am capable of all that will be required of me! I am such a f***up! I hate to label myself that way, but honestly, what is wrong with me? I keep screwing away my life with opiates and missteps. It's insanity! Can I be helped!!!!??????


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Marilyn,

That's great. he is awesome and altho he talks about the 4-6 month time frame, he does support long term use when needed. He is very open minded.

I don't know much about your history and if this is your first recovery? But I would encourage you to keep an open mind about sub use...it might take you longer to stabilize depending on your history and use and support systems etc.
Nothing is set in stone....and you can always taper, but just think about being open to the idea of more. Short term sub use has incidence of high relapse rates...but again depending on your history and current life, etc.
You are NOT a fuck up....you have a disease, you are sick, not bad. We all understand here...this disease kicks our asses and we have all lost a lot. My relapse 5 years ago was it for me. I can't afford any more and I've used up all my "9 lives".

Also, the clinic cannot cut you off...they can do a financial detox if you can't pay but they cannot cut you off nor can they tell you that you can't be on 20mg. You don't owe them an explanation. Honesty is necessary in recovery but if your counselor isn't supportive i would look for other support systems outside of there and just do what you need to do until you see the Dr in Jan.

Hang in there and keep posting and reading....there is a lot of support here.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:14 pm 
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Chinagirl, you say that the clinic cannot tell me I cannot be on 20mg. I'd like to take them on on that count for the brief remainder of the time I will be going there until I see the subox doc. Is there a law I can cite? They seem to think they can tell me to do whatever they want! I'd love to tell them otherwise and have it stick.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:20 pm 
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I'll PM you about this....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:25 pm 
In true reality, a doctor is not actually in charge of your treatment. He/she is only their to advise you of your options. It is up to you to pick which option suits you. Im not saying you do as you please. Im just saying that a doctor is not in control. You are and thats something a lot of people do wrong is they just take a doctors words as written in stone. I revert back to the saying, "Just because you have a license, does not mean you know how to drive. " Meaning, just because they have their degree does not mean they always know whats best or even whats right for that matter.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:29 am 
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Come on now , this is another government program ... What do you expect !!!!!!! These people you speak about about at the clinic get most of there money from outside sources , those outside sources know whats BEST for you... this is just a taste of health care in America in the future


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:49 am 
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I just wanted to say I support your decision to switch over to sub. I think you may have a better handle on what's best for you than the meth clinic at this point. It doesn't surprise me that you have had a hard time tapering the meth. I couldn't do it. That, I think, is one of the down sides of methadone versus suboxone. However, I also think that if you were getting extra methadone on the street, you probably aren't ready to taper and may need a longer term of suboxone than 4 months. Everyone is different. In my opinion, you need time to get so far away from those people you buy methadone from that you wouldn't even know where to find them if you wanted to. THEN....you might be ready to get off sub.

In terms of citing a law.....turn the tables. When they tell you THEY have the right to decide, ask THEM to cite a law that states this. Tell them you ONLY want the 20mg. Ultimately they will probably have to document your chart that they tried and you refused it which will protect them in terms of any liability. That is all they are looking for anyways most likely and you will be on your way with 20mg.

I wish you the best of luck with this endeavor. I also wish you the best of luck with the transition. It is very important you try to keep to the lower meth dose.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:03 pm 
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I am liking more and more the idea of getting on subox, and then just putting myself in my doctor's hands and getting off when he thinks I'm ready. Last night on the phone he said usually about four months. Yes, I need to get away from opiates. I keep thinking I can do it on my own and I simply cannot. I didn't want to get hooked on something else, but I have GOT TO TAKE THIS PROACTIVE STEP.

Went to my clinic today and my counselor announced that I have to stay on 35 mg for "at least a month" before they would allow me to taper again. I am not very clear-headed about what to do at this point, except I think I have the wherewithal to quit the clinic as it nears my dr appt time and taper down to 20 on my own, and then stay off completely (shudder) for three-four days before induction. If Chinadoll can do it for six days, an admitted wimp, I guess I can too!

I do feel sad that I am giong to be getting addicted to something else (the subox), but I see now it is probably the only wise choice. This is not working at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:16 pm 
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If you decide to make the switch to suboxone, yes, you'll be dependent on it, but you won't be hooked or addicted to it. Being addicted includes all sorts of maladaptive behaviors, taking more than prescribed, taking it the wrong way (snorting pills), continuing to use when there are horrible consequences, etc, etc. In other words, there is a HUGE difference between being dependent on a medication and being addicted to it. Suboxone helps us achieve addiction remission. No more lying, cheating, stealing, etc., to get our high. No more chasing that high AT ALL. Suboxone will keep the w/d away and stop the cravings. It allows us to live a normal life. That's why we call it addiction remission.

Work on what you want to do right NOW. But don't get ahead of yourself by thinking how long you need to be on sub even before you start it. Take things as they come. Once you get on suboxone, you'll have plenty of time to stabilize and decide when you need to get off of it. Give yourself some time to live your life and get used to not being in active addiction.

As for the clinic not letting you taper down, can't you just refuse the 35 mg and take only 20? I mean what would/could they do if you tell them no to the higher dose? It stinks that they are so controlling instead of having your best interest in mind. Like others have said, YOU are in charge of your life, that includes your treatment.

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Marilyn,

I pm'd you just now....but I have never heard of someone saying you need to stay at 35mg, when tapering, for a month! It is a power play. They are making this very difficult for you and I want to encourage you not to give up. Do not let them sabotoge you....I am concerned about that for you....so don't shoot yourself in the foot yet, well, don't mean to tell you what to do!, but just in case, it would be awful for you to have no methadone, then be in trouble, use and something horrible happen or that you get sucked back in quickly and never make it Sub Dr. ARGHHH. makes me ill to even think about it...

Play along for now and maybe we can think of something else. Obviously talking to them is not working. Have you spoken to the director yet? I would as soon as possible. What about the nurse dosing you? Sometimes they have more clout than the counselors, depending on their creds.

I''ll check my PM and see whats up....hang in there.

And, yes, like it was mentioned, you will be dependent physiologically and maybe psychologically too but it is NOT active addiction. It is NOT the same...and I think once you start you'll begin to see how this can work for you.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Thanks, hatmaker. It is all slowly slipping into place now. No, I cannot refuse 35 mg because of how they dose, but I think I will drop the clinic at a certain point and handle things on my own. Or maybe I can be at 35 and just bite the bullet and take NOTHING for four days before induction.

Yeah, I hear what you are saying about getting ahead of myself. I certainly have a tendency to do that. I have fooled myself for about a decade now thinking I can just handle this methadone monkey on my own since I "only" do it a couple of times a week (before I started at the clinic), but now I want to do it every day, and that just cannot, cannot, cannot happen. I mean every day to get high, the whole megilla, the 130 or more mg. amped up with xanax or whatever. That would spell the end of my emotional, spiritual, every kind of life I have.

I am very curious about where this will lead. I could live in this forum; I feel so at home here with my peeps.

:lol:


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 Post subject: MarilynJ55
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:39 am 
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*MarilynJ55* god just hearing about what this methadone clinic is putting you through and forcing you to take a higher dose of methadone by 15mgs is so infuriating to me. There has got to be a way around this so that you can refuse the higher dose and sign a waiver for liability. I could see if you were jumping down thier throats about raising your dose but hello, your asking to take less. Do they know why you suddenly want to drop down to the 20mg? Have ou told them that it is so you can begin a Suboxone regiment and you need to get ur tolerance down to 20mg? And its great to hear how comfortable you feel on this site. These people on here really are just amazing people in general.

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