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 Post subject: cravings..
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:45 pm 
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I'm just going to turn this into a cravings thread....why, cause I started it and everyone has cravings- clean or not! Cravings are messed up. If I wasn't on a ton of methadone and my tolerence was low, I would bang a shite ton of dilaudid.

I don't know what causes that 'warm' feeling? I get real talkative and feel as if im on top of my game; Anyone know what I mean? words flow out easier, people tell me I'm funnier(?), it's a sense of well- being

right now I feel like crap...I 'm thankful I'm not on that 'rollercoaster'. You know, sick then better, sick then better and on and on

That's prolly what made me quit, The last wd wasn't even that bad but I just surrendered....couldn't take it anymore....I think about some old using buddies that I haven't seen in 2/ years that are still doing the same old thing. up and down up and down up and down...thinking about how crappy that lifestyle is makes me want to puke. I saw one walking on the street today as I drove by; thought to myself, how much longer does he have. He comes from a good family, raised well, but all he can talk about is drugs and jail...of course, I didn't stop....I could look and tell how unhealthy he was. It reminded me of the past...

I normally don't do much for Thanksgiving, or even think about it for that matter. Last Thanksgiving I was too sick to get out of bed. I'm craving but it will pass soon and I think of all the addicts out there that could be saved; to me its so simple- bupe How are they not exhausted? after 10 years of this shit , I was damn exhausted!


So this Thanksgiving, I'm thankful to have my sobriety, family that loves me, and I'm Thankful for all the hurting addicts that have sought help this year. whichever route they choose. This was mean't to be a venting/cravings post but then I remembered Thanksgiving. so-this is my venting/cravings thread, but write whatever you want Or is on your mind. I find it healthy and i enjoy reading what's up in others lives' happy T day :D ~indigo


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 Post subject: Happy Thanksgiving!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:42 pm 
Zero cravings as of late, but in the spirit of Thanksgiving I would just like to say that I am extremely grateful for buprenorphine and methadone. Total junkie statement, but whatever! Methadone gave me a safety net for a few years, raising my tollerence to a point that I was never in a position to OD. Buprenorphine has been a godsend for me, giving me time to be 100% in recovery for the longest duration in my life. At the same time, props to me, because at the end of the day buprenorphine isn't living my life for me; I've stepped up in ways that I never had before! I also don't do family stuff on Thanksgiving, I'm just not a fan of most of them, so I don't put myself through it. I forced myself to for many years so as not to upset people I am close to, but I wasn't doing myself any favors in the process. Though I'm not a huge supporter of NA, I love their idea of one addict helping another addict/fellowship. This Thanksgiving, I am going to be bringing some traditional Thanksgiving foods to a halfway house/sober apartment where a friend from using days past is on house arrest after just getting out of jail last Saturday on a 1.5 year old opioid related charge. He's been in treatment at this facility for 9 months. That's my idea of Thanksgiving, not sitting in a house full of relative I don't really like, but pretend to like while being a neurotic mess.

Thanks Indigo, and Happy/Safe Thanksgiving to everyone!

-Travis


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 Post subject: Re: cravings..
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:10 am 
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indigochild wrote:
I'm just going to turn this into a cravings thread....why, cause I started it and everyone has cravings- clean or not! Cravings are messed up. If I wasn't on a ton of methadone and my tolerence was low, I would bang a shite ton of dilaudid.

I don't know what causes that 'warm' feeling? I get real talkative and feel as if im on top of my game; Anyone know what I mean? words flow out easier, people tell me I'm funnier(?), it's a sense of well- being

right now I feel like crap...I 'm thankful I'm not on that 'rollercoaster'. You know, sick then better, sick then better and on and on

That's prolly what made me quit, The last wd wasn't even that bad but I just surrendered....couldn't take it anymore....I think about some old using buddies that I haven't seen in 2/ years that are still doing the same old thing. up and down up and down up and down...thinking about how crappy that lifestyle is makes me want to puke. I saw one walking on the street today as I drove by; thought to myself, how much longer does he have. He comes from a good family, raised well, but all he can talk about is drugs and jail...of course, I didn't stop....I could look and tell how unhealthy he was. It reminded me of the past...

I normally don't do much for Thanksgiving, or even think about it for that matter. Last Thanksgiving I was too sick to get out of bed. I'm craving but it will pass soon and I think of all the addicts out there that could be saved; to me its so simple- bupe How are they not exhausted? after 10 years of this shit , I was damn exhausted!


So this Thanksgiving, I'm thankful to have my sobriety, family that loves me, and I'm Thankful for all the hurting addicts that have sought help this year. whichever route they choose. This was mean't to be a venting/cravings post but then I remembered Thanksgiving. so-this is my venting/cravings thread, but write whatever you want Or is on your mind. I find it healthy and i enjoy reading what's up in others lives' happy T day :D ~indigo



TO INDINGO: I can really relate to that warm feeling, real talkative, top of my game thing you are talking about. I just become the center of attention, have everyone laughing and eyes on ME. I always liked that because it made me feel important, popular, the life of the party. Without it I felt totally out of control hanging in the back corner of a room. Bup has taken away my cravings and I really mean that too. I can't believe it because I was such an addict =29yrs. ...but Bup has been like a miracle drug for me...no cravings...no wanting more bup...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:19 am 
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This is a really weird time for me to have just gone off Sub. I don't know if what I'm going through would be considered "craving" or not. It's not no much that I want to get high, it's just that I don't want to feel as shitty as I've been feeling every day. I know, having tried it, that the painkillers I used to take don't give that warm glowing feeling anymore. I don't know if it's a tolerance thing or if bupe changed my receptors or my perception of opiates. I just know that if I really wanted to get high right now I would have to up the ante of both what I use and probably how I deliver it. I'm not willing to go down that road after everything I've been through in the past two years getting off drugs. Last night one of my family members really set me off - right on schedule for Thanksgiving- and the next thing I knew I was searching the house for that 1 Suboxone film I thought I still might have (it would just be to get through Thanksgiving with the relatives, right?). Somehow, I was able to take a step back and see that what I was doing (tearing through drawers and whatnot) was the exact same behavior as I had in active addiction. That scares me - to think I could take a med that covered probably 90% of my cravings for 2 years, and a week and a half after going off I'm in addict behavior again. I remember in NA they used to say, while you're in recovery your disease is outside doing push-ups.
So I'm thankful that I'm clean right now. I'm thankful that Sub gave me enough distance from active addiction that I can take a step back and recognize it before I actually use. Looking back, I'm thankful for even being alive right now. I'm also thankful for all of you guys. I'm living a typical middle class suburban life right now, and the people that I see on a daily basis have no idea of the battle I'm fighting right now. It's awesome to be able to come here and talk about all this stuff.
bless you all,
Lilly


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 Post subject: Thank you
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:10 am 
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Thank you for sharing, they stopped doing the online 'meetings' for whatever reason (thought it was an interesting concept)- . My goal here is just share/ vent, whatever. Maybe how you influenced someones life...i don't know? I don't go to meetings but I'm on the computer a few hours each day; it helps to throw out random problems or frustrations- so anyone feel free to post, whatever.

I plan on posting some info on cravings as well. I think it is a very interesting thing addicts suffer from, especially during PAWS. I think it's a mystery of why cravings occur- also curious as to what causes sneezing? This happened one time, months after a un-informed, shitty rehab, gave me suboxone (2003) only 24 hours after a methadone dose of 120mg for 2 yrs. Looking back, it's precipitated wds is why I felt like hell.. caused me to hallucinate, climb walls- six months later , I was sneezing 300 times/day. This was the longest I've ever been abtinence-based clean. That's when sub was a rehab drug, Docs knew NOTHING about it...looking back, I want to file a lawsuit , they almost killed me. By far the worst WD I've ever been through, but I was on the verge of losing everything.

Feel free to post any scientific info on cravings or links; always wondered how long-term opioid abuse changes the brain- neurotransmitters, receptors, all that fun stuff that I didn't know about in active addiction. I thought after 3 days, one was cured....ha, little did I know :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:28 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
I don't know if it's a tolerance thing or if bupe changed my receptors or my perception of opiates. I just know that if I really wanted to get high right now I would have to up the ante of both what I use and probably how I deliver it.


I'm with you there lillyval. Something's changed in me as well. I think that, by using on Suboxone and getting little out of it, it made me realise just how sad taking drugs is. When those fake happy-joy mood distortions stop happening, the whole process of using just seems ... ridiculous?

I also know the feeling of craving Suboxone post taper. It's really weird to addictively crave a drug that was once so useful? Sometimes there's contradictions with Sub.

Three days ago, a string of things happened that would once induce cravings. I got a phone call from an old dealer who just got out of jail, telling me he was back running. Literally just after I told him to get &^@*'ed, the phone rang again with an old using friend who'd just relapsed, who wanted help (but also liked to tell me how good the drugs felt). Have you noticed how people who are using love to do this? It makes me wonder if addiction is a contagious. Even I noticed myself trying to pull back people who'd got clean when I was using. It's really evil stuff. It's a symptom of addiction?

Anyone else notice that these "triggers" always seem to happen all at once? Like you get a few weeks of cruising, then one day out of the blue after no sleep there's an article in the paper about how the drugs on the street are killer-strong, then you see the girlfriend's having coffee with an ex boyfriend, then you've get stood up for an appointment one block away from the local housing projects and you get a phone call from an old NA friend who just relapsed and needs a lift from the same projects...

I'm no spiritual person really, but sometimes I feel that there's a dark thing going on with these coincidental events, and equally the other way as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:30 am 
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Sorry Indigochild I had to delete that post.

It strayed a bit far from helpful discussion.

Everyone try and be careful with discussion about cravings. Keep it on the "right" side, and away from glorifying drug use.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:38 pm 
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"Sorry Indigochild I had to delete that post."

Oh, Lord, please tell me we are not back to censorship around here again. That's partly why I stopped coming here and stopped posting about six months ago. I was assured we were done with the censorship. If a post violates the rules, that's one thing. Staying on one person's "right side" is not at all a rules violation. "Moderation" should not equal "Censorship"


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:53 pm 
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Cool thread indigo

last night was def very hard for me filled with lots of cravings for a couple reasons. One being i got about 27 text hey come down town have a few drinks, or hey come to this party all of the old crew is back together, or hey Brent its s:<}: § i know we havent talked in a coupl years but im home for the holiday and heard your on methadone can you sell me any or i could trade you some somas and valiums for some! Ya know all my old so called friends get mad or angry i dont talk to thrm any more THIS IS WHY YOU DUMB ASS. You know im clean and drinking leads to bad things for myself but its only the biggest party night of the year why not just have fun. Bc u can pick something up and put it down when u want but i cant and you know this but you still ask me. And to top it off i got in a huge fight with my gf bc i wasnt eating thanksgiving with her family but she did with mine last year,might i add i didnt ask her to.
So with all stress i would love to just drift away from this thing callef life for a lil bit. Thank god there was a group today at the clinic.

But now i feel much better i vented what happen not once but twice. But i am truly thankfull for methadone it saved my life in so many ways from addictiilon to most importany my pain. Ill add more to this post when i get a chance to share what im greatfull forn

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:27 pm 
I'm with donh....What's going on with deleting posts? I didn't even see the deleted post, so I have no idea what it contained. But come on....We've been here before...plenty of times. Who decides what constitutes the "right side?" This is an addiction and recovery site. We often need to talk about drug use. Who gets to decide whether a post is "glorifying" drug use? It's what all of us did....That's why we're here! If we can't talk about it here, where exactly are we supposed to talk about it?
Maybe there was something egregious in that post....In my opinion, Indigo has posted some questionable stuff before....but could we at least get a little more of an explanation about what's going on when an entire post gets deleted?
Just a suggestion.....Maybe the 'power' to delete an entire post should go to a more 'senior' moderator, like Diary of a Quitter. She seems to be the one with the most experience and the best unbiased judgment when it comes to things like this. No offense to the other mods....it's a thankless job and I should know....I got 'fired' as a moderator here because I hold a core belief system that does not mesh well with the majority. Whether they choose to acknowledge that as the reason or not, it's the truth. So yeah....insomuch as it is possible, an unbiased moderator should be given the only access to the delete button, in my humble opinion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:58 pm 
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The point of deleting posts is when it's best that other people don't see it. I dislike doing it just as much as you guys.

The post was pointed at someone who's said they've been feeling cravings, and basically described "how good it would feel" for them to give into it. Really not helpful, especially when directed at someone who's confided they're feeling vulnerable.

If anyone has an issue with me deleting such posts, drop me a PM and we can talk about it. I'll gladly describe what was said.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:36 pm 
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I am probably the last person in the world that would delete something so what I am about to say on the subject comes from a firm believer in free speech.

First, this is a private forum. We were asked to be moderators because our judgement is trusted. Tear read an inappropriate post that could have very likely negatively effected another members recovery and he did his job as moderator and deleted it. There was no bias involved and to assume to know that we are biased while moderating is honestly offensive. I do not know what went on before because I was not here but to basically say that diary is the only mod that can make the right decision and the rest of us can't be trusted just makes no sense to me. In my opinion you would be the one holding the bias against the other moderators by assuming this without us doing anything that would support the accusation. Unless of course you have an example of the rest of us moderating unfairly? I just don't get it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:42 am 
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Hey Indigo,

This is a cool thread, I was just talking to another member earlier today and I mentioned how the topic of "living sober" SUCKS, but it beats living in active addiction. Living sober or clean or however you want to put it sucks, especially for us addicts who know how good being high feels. I think most everyone experiences cravings from time to time.

The cravings to get high come and go. I just went through a massive episode yesterday. My wife is sick, she went to the doctor and he said her throat was inflamed and red and that was music to my ears because I knew that meant he was going to call her in some Tussionex. I left work and flew over to the pharmacy to pick up my wife's prescriptions for her, but she knows me well enough and she beat me there. She ended up picking them up about 4 minutes before I got there and she came home, dumped the bottle down the drain and filled it with soapy water.

So, I went from being "locked and loaded" to utter despair in about 1.38 seconds flat, but I made it......with help from my wife, of course. I went through the whole cycle of being mad at her for dumping the "good stuff" all the way to feeling fine again in record time though. It used to be that shit like that would drive me bananas for days, but I completed the whole cycle in about an hour or so and that's some nice progress for me.

I did an entirely crappy job of managing my cravings up front because I did not tell my wife before hand that I knew she was gonna get Tussionex, I let it happen and I tried to capitalize on it.

Dang it, I'm rambling now. I think my point was that cravings are gonna happen. Try to manage them up front and have a good support group in place in case you don't.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:21 am 
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Romeo wrote:
She ended up picking them up about 4 minutes before I got there and she came home, dumped the bottle down the drain and filled it with soapy water.

So, I went from being "locked and loaded" to utter despair in about 1.38 seconds flat, but I made it......with help from my wife, of course. I went through the whole cycle of being mad at her for dumping the "good stuff" all the way to feeling fine again in record time though. It used to be that shit like that would drive me bananas for days, but I completed the whole cycle in about an hour or so and that's some nice progress for me.


It's very lucky when that stuff happens, and is more proof that we gotta have help to get through early recovery. Any time I've tried to get through early recovery, esp the first year, there were times when I was locked in to getting on. And there'd be some fortunate barrier that would either stop me, or talk some sense into me.

Since I started coming here, and you tapered and went to 12-step meetings, it's been really interesting seeing you use more & more NA sayings in your posts. It's not a bad thing at all. It's just interesting how NA influences people's view on recovery. I went through the same thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:29 am 
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Just for the record, I think the moderators on this forum do an excellent job. They have a thankless job, a job that pays NOTHING, yet here they are, day in and day out providing support and guidance to those in need.

I know Tearjerker well enough through his writings to know that he possesses sound judgement and while I don't necessarily care for censorship, I support him in his decision to delete the post he did.

I just copied this from wikipedia. In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, such as on libel, slander, obscenity, incitement to commit a crime, etc.

I underlined the words "such as on libel, slander, obscenity, incitement to commit a crime, etc" to make sure everyone knew that this list of exceptions to freedom of speech was not a complete list of exceptions.

After a little more digging, I found this as an added exception to Freedom of Speech, "Causing panic: The classic example of speech which is not protected by the First Amendment, because it causes panic, is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. (2) This is narrowly limited to situations in which a reasonable person would know that it was very likely that his or her speech would really cause harm to others. "

After reading this, I think Tear did his job perfectly.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:35 am 
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Yeah it's a hard one. And I didn't imagine the decision would cause this controversy. I don't really want to be a nanny either. I just know from my own experiences, after sitting on a knife-edge considering relapse many times... that comments of the type, especially using a person's trust against them, can be enough to tip someone over. When we're craving, IMO we need all the help we can get until we manage to take back the reins.

It's really important to talk about our cravings, but it can be dangerous when the comments have no recovery angle. In my time in rehabs etc I experienced how easy it is for discussions to turn into people just talking up getting high, how "good it would feel" etc. The end result was always people "talking each other out the door" - ie a group of people leaving rehab together to get high.

I'm aware of the first amendment, and democratic rights to freedom of expression. Suboxforum, being a recovery board where there's heaps of people at varying stages of recovery, I think it's important to keep it a safe place where people can open up without fear.


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 Post subject: The biggest
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am 
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The biggest and most insightful craving I've ever had was during abstinence-based recovery

Post-rehab (7th and last time)- 6-7 months clean, not even a Benadryl
Everyday I felt bad. I hated my life. I had no personality-no passion for life. So I'm wondering at this point- (completely clean) if NA and meetings was going to work- the whole overzealous NA lifestyle that it entails e.g. birthdays, chips, sponsors. I was unemployable and all my sponsers kept telling my family- if he doesn't keep coming back, he'll die! die. die. It scared the shit outa my mom , having recovering crack-heads call the house and visit. Then I'd go hang with them. We never did anything bad and they were no better or worse than me, but she didn't understand the true candidness(sp) or openess of the program- and these were the same people saying I would die if i missed. She had trouble with this shit..BTW, this is my story and I'm not downing AA.NA

So Back to being depressed, hating my life, sneezing 300? times a day- WTF is wrong I remember praying! I'm doing everything fucking right! I slowly started hearing people talk about how much better their lives were on the program. I envied these fucks! I wanted to feel better dammit and earned it. Most that felt better were not the dope heads but rather coke, crack, even some alcohol (alcohol is one of the most difficult drugs to stop and I have a special place in my heart). Some opiods went back on methadone, a few were talking about this Suboxone thing. One night, ah yea, 7? months clean, I was up all night crying to my mom about how 'bad' I felt. "Why", she asked...I don't know! I shouted with tears running down my face. The craving wasn't to get high, but just to feel like myself again, normal. I want to feel goddamn normal! Godbless my Mom- she wanted to just wave a magic wand over and cure me. She didn't know what 'normal' mean't as it was such a redundant and vague term by this point

That's the night I new I would be on 'assistance' indefinitly! I knew there were changes in my brain that occured from using. Recepters, transmitters, endorphins.. I don't know shit about refractory depression- don't know if it's hogwash, but I've tried abtinence, hated it, didn't work (for me), I'm indigo and I take Methadone - for now, anyway 8)


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 Post subject: btw
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:38 am 
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that was not a bottom story just a craving story that made a positive impact.....if that makes any sence?


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 Post subject: Re: btw TO INDIGOCHILD
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:28 pm 
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indigochild wrote:
that was not a bottom story just a craving story that made a positive impact.....if that makes any sence?


TO indigochild: I agree with you on cravings and abstinence-based recovery. Maybe because I've fried my brain for 29 yrs...but i just have to have something and subutex does it for me. I have taken methadone (on the streets) and I just wanted more methadone. I hope you don't mind me asking, but how do you not want to increase your dose? Do you have any problems with that? I know there are a lot of people on this forum on meth and a lot on sub and I feel whatever works for you so be it. It is just that sub won't let me take more to feel better..it is what it is..but with the methadone more made me feel better. ALL MY LIFE I WANTED TO FEEL BETTER THAN I DO RIGHT NOW!...does that make sense to anyone but me???


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 Post subject: Re: btw TO INDIGOCHILD
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:34 pm 
slipper wrote:
indigochild wrote:
that was not a bottom story just a craving story that made a positive impact.....if that makes any sence?


TO indigochild: I agree with you on cravings and abstinence-based recovery. Maybe because I've fried my brain for 29 yrs...but i just have to have something and subutex does it for me. I have taken methadone (on the streets) and I just wanted more methadone. I hope you don't mind me asking, but how do you not want to increase your dose? Do you have any problems with that? I know there are a lot of people on this forum on meth and a lot on sub and I feel whatever works for you so be it. It is just that sub won't let me take more to feel better..it is what it is..but with the methadone more made me feel better. ALL MY LIFE I WANTED TO FEEL BETTER THAN I DO RIGHT NOW!...does that make sense to anyone but me???


Makes perfect sense to me! Also, in regards to methadone: I was on methadone for a few years via MMT and RX for pain management. I was at a dose that satisfied my cravings the entire time I was on methadone. I have gotten 30mg here or there in the past also, and that was never enough but 240mg daily did me for years and I was content with that. Towards the end of my time on methadone, the one thing that I started doing, though, was adding benzo's to the mix which left me unfunctional at best....nod city..

-Travis


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