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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:43 am 
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I stopped suboxone back in October of 2014. It was awful, of course. I had been on the thing for about 2.5 years on about an average of 6 mg daily (at first 8 then usually would cut the strip in half to get 4mg). I didn't really taper and just kinda jumped off. Anyways,I always had a bit of underlying anxiety and worry issues and had been on some type of an SSRI for many years before even developing an opiate issue, but I guess I can say I NEVER really knew what chronic anxiety was like until after stopping subs. Even after all the other symptoms disappeared I would always wake up in the morning with intense panic and the "runs". This problem was of course extremely severe in the first 3 months after quitting but why am I sitting here over 2 years later still waking up in the morning feeling anxious???? I have stomach issues. The anxiety and abdominal discomfort for me go together. I was diagnosed with IBS after a thorough evaluation revealed no physical cause. What I was told during treatment was that the Naloxone would only get into my system if I tried to inject it so I wasn't concerned about the possible longterm effects of that particular drug, but I am now beginning to suspect that perhaps my brain has been wiped clear of endorphins for good. Any insight?


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:24 am 
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Paws is awful and I suffered with it for months when I came off full opiates years ago. But if u had anxiety issues before suboxone, during suboxone and now after suboxone.... it just seems to me that 2 years later, maybe it isn't paws. There are those type of ppl, myself included, that just have a lot of anxiety no matter what we do, we still suffer with it. I was on an antidepressant for 10 years for anxiety and even though it helped a little bit, the anxiety was still there.

Hopefully Dr Junig or docm2 will give u some more insight on what's possibly going on.

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:36 am 
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I agree with Jenn. I also have anxiety issues. A major change like getting off MAT is likely to set off all kinds
of alarm bells for those prone to worry and fear. In my experience, anxiety gets worse over time...if left to its own devices.The main problem with anxiety is it tends to feed on itself. SSRI"S can help some, but I'm not sure about the very long term.

What's helped me the most is developing strategies to deal with anxiety as it crops up. Deep breathing with or without a mantra is extremely helpful for example. Once you begin to realize you can control. this stuff, the vicious cycle of increasing anxiety is replaced by a virtuous one. That is, the more you feel you can master these issues, the more confidence you gain and the less anxiety you feel.

If you do the deep breathing thing, the main idea is to stick with it no matter what. The trigger for anxiety is generally thinking. What you want to do is distract yourself from those self defeating thoughts. IN addition to that very helpful feature :D deep breathing is the most effective method I know to induce what's been called the "relaxation response."

There's a good book by that title if interested. Mediation of course is highly recommended.

Hope this helps some!

Godfrey


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:20 am 
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jennjenn wrote:
Paws is awful and I suffered with it for months when I came off full opiates years ago. But if u had anxiety issues before suboxone, during suboxone and now after suboxone.... it just seems to me that 2 years later, maybe it isn't paws. There are those type of ppl, myself included, that just have a lot of anxiety no matter what we do, we still suffer with it. I was on an antidepressant for 10 years for anxiety and even though it helped a little bit, the anxiety was still there.

Hopefully Dr Junig or docm2 will give u some more insight on what's possibly going on.




Yes anxiety is awful. I didn't suffer from it really before opiates since the SSRIs had it under control I suppose. I didn't suffer during opiates because opiates completely killed anxiety. During subs also no anxiety. After subs, anxiety like I've never experienced to where I don't even know what I'm anxious about.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:27 am 
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godfrey wrote:
I agree with Jenn. I also have anxiety issues. A major change like getting off MAT is likely to set off all kinds
of alarm bells for those prone to worry and fear. In my experience, anxiety gets worse over time...if left to its own devices.The main problem with anxiety is it tends to feed on itself. SSRI"S can help some, but I'm not sure about the very long term.

What's helped me the most is developing strategies to deal with anxiety as it crops up. Deep breathing with or without a mantra is extremely helpful for example. Once you begin to realize you can control. this stuff, the vicious cycle of increasing anxiety is replaced by a virtuous one. That is, the more you feel you can master these issues, the more confidence you gain and the less anxiety you feel.

If you do the deep breathing thing, the main idea is to stick with it no matter what. The trigger for anxiety is generally thinking. What you want to do is distract yourself from those self defeating thoughts. IN addition to that very helpful feature :D deep breathing is the most effective method I know to induce what's been called the "relaxation response."

There's a good book by that title if interested. Mediation of course is highly recommended.

Hope this helps some!

Godfrey



Yes I've heard alot about deep breathing. I suppose I'm just not doing it correctly. Perhaps I should seriously youtube this. I do agree with you about anxiety feeding on itself. I wake up in the morning and I feel like knowing I'm.going to start feeling anxious in a few seconds almost brings on the anxiety. It's awful. I wish I could find a way to get it under control cause tge SSRIs are doing nothing. It's just that I wish why I never ever experienced it prior to this whole sub detox. I mean yes I did worry but waking up and starting the day with it dreading that another day has started, these are things that suboxone left me with.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:29 am 
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godfrey wrote:
I agree with Jenn. I also have anxiety issues. A major change like getting off MAT is likely to set off all kinds
of alarm bells for those prone to worry and fear. In my experience, anxiety gets worse over time...if left to its own devices.The main problem with anxiety is it tends to feed on itself. SSRI"S can help some, but I'm not sure about the very long term.

What's helped me the most is developing strategies to deal with anxiety as it crops up. Deep breathing with or without a mantra is extremely helpful for example. Once you begin to realize you can control. this stuff, the vicious cycle of increasing anxiety is replaced by a virtuous one. That is, the more you feel you can master these issues, the more confidence you gain and the less anxiety you feel.

If you do the deep breathing thing, the main idea is to stick with it no matter what. The trigger for anxiety is generally thinking. What you want to do is distract yourself from those self defeating thoughts. IN addition to that very helpful feature :D deep breathing is the most effective method I know to induce what's been called the "relaxation response."

There's a good book by that title if interested. Mediation of course is highly recommended.

Hope this helps some!

Godfrey



Yes I've heard alot about deep breathing. I suppose I'm just not doing it correctly. Perhaps I should seriously youtube this. I do agree with you about anxiety feeding on itself. I wake up in the morning and I feel like knowing I'm.going to start feeling anxious in a few seconds almost brings on the anxiety. It's awful. I wish I could find a way to get it under control cause tge SSRIs are doing nothing. It's just that I wish why I never ever experienced it prior to this whole sub detox. I mean yes I did worry but waking up and starting the day with it dreading that another day has started, these are things that suboxone left me with.

Sorry lotta grammar issues in that post


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:37 am 
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"I don;t even know what I'm anxious about."
s

Anxiety's often about itself. Anxiety is deeply painful, especially when intense. One becomes anxious about feeling anxious. How old are you? Different issues come up at various stages of life.

Your situation sounds a lot like mine. I promise you the breathing works. You just have to be determined about it. Eventually, the relaxation response which is a natural reflex. It doesn't take long. Sometimes just a few deep breaths. Sometimes half a minute. Overtime you realize you're thinking anxious thoughts, yell "STOP" at yourself (in your mind) and breathe. The combination of the relaxation response and distraction frim'the worried thoughts will give you a "reset." IN the beginning you'll likely have to do this a lot. When you start trusting it, much less. You'll no longer feel at the mercy of something you can't control.

Remember, thinking is the leak in the boat, the hole in the dam. Refuse to give in to it. Just breathe!


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:16 pm 
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I can totally understand why u think suboxone left u this way, but imo anything would have left u this way. I don't think it's unique to suboxone. I was at my worst anxiety during active addiction. Opiates helped when I had a buzz but immediately after I was right bk to anxiety again. So I didn't think opiates caused my anxiety, they just held them off for a few hours at a time. Cravings can cause major anxiety though, so honestly it's tough!

As Godfrey mentioned, the breathing can help immensely. It can be difficult to calm those feelings but if u truly concentrate, u can get there. It's not easy, anxiety is so hard and some medication can work a little and some don't help at all. I don't take anything for my anxiety anymore. I used to take Paxil for 10 years until I stopped during active addiction. It didn't do much and the side effects weren't good. I've just learned to try to control it. I hope u can get some type of relief, ur definitely in my thoughts.

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:25 pm 
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godfrey wrote:
"I don;t even know what I'm anxious about."
s

Anxiety's often about itself. Anxiety is deeply painful, especially when intense. One becomes anxious about feeling anxious. How old are you? Different issues come up at various stages of life.

Your situation sounds a lot like mine. I promise you the breathing works. You just have to be determined about it. Eventually, the relaxation response which is a natural reflex. It doesn't take long. Sometimes just a few deep breaths. Sometimes half a minute. Overtime you realize you're thinking anxious thoughts, yell "STOP" at yourself (in your mind) and breathe. The combination of the relaxation response and distraction frim'the worried thoughts will give you a "reset." IN the beginning you'll likely have to do this a lot. When you start trusting it, much less. You'll no longer feel at the mercy of something you can't control.

Remember, thinking is the leak in the boat, the hole in the dam. Refuse to give in to it. Just breathe!


Yes anxiety. A monster. I dread going to bed knowing I will wake up with it. Actually not WITH it....it seems as though after I wake up I already know it's gonna hit me and that's when it hits me. It's to the point where seeing daylight has become dreadful like oh here we go again. How long am I gonna be able to stand it before I have to succumb to the xanax? I am 39 years old and....I'll tell you..waking up in the morning realizing I'm one day closer to 40 doesn't help much. It just REALLY sucks. Thanks for your info btw.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:32 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
I can totally understand why u think suboxone left u this way, but imo anything would have left u this way. I don't think it's unique to suboxone. I was at my worst anxiety during active addiction. Opiates helped when I had a buzz but immediately after I was right bk to anxiety again. So I didn't think opiates caused my anxiety, they just held them off for a few hours at a time. Cravings can cause major anxiety though, so honestly it's tough!

As Godfrey mentioned, the breathing can help immensely. It can be difficult to calm those feelings but if u truly concentrate, u can get there. It's not easy, anxiety is so hard and some medication can work a little and some don't help at all. I don't take anything for my anxiety anymore. I used to take Paxil for 10 years until I stopped during active addiction. It didn't do much and the side effects weren't good. I've just learned to try to control it. I hope u can get some type of relief, ur definitely in my thoughts.

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes you're right I took Paxil too and it seemed to just completely lose its anxiolytic effects after that whole experience. I only continued taking small doses because I'd get vertigo when I completely stopped. I eventually tapered down ans started on zoloft but it's not doing anything either. It may be time to try a different class of meds or stop them altogether, keeping benzos on hand as needed and, I need them everyday, shamefully.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Quote:
Thanks for your thoughts. Yes you're right I took Paxil too and it seemed to just completely lose its anxiolytic effects after that whole experience. I only continued taking small doses because I'd get vertigo when I completely stopped. I eventually tapered down ans started on zoloft but it's not doing anything either. It may be time to try a different class of meds or stop them altogether, keeping benzos on hand as needed and, I need them everyday, shamefully.



I'm just going to suggest one last time that if you want to get some mastery over a problem that otherwise
will quite likely interfere with your pursuit of happiness for the rest of your life, that you consider drug free approaches. Over time, the benzos will lost their potency, and then where will you be?

As I mentioned above, this kind of anxiety feeds on itself and over time tends to get worse...

Best of luck and best of wishes,
Godfrey


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