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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Something is wrong with my original thread, every time i try to post, no matter from my computer or my phone, it gives me an error message.......but I have no problem posting on other threads.

Anyway, I have been struggling bad. I was stable at .75mg like 4-5 days ago and I've been trying to go down to .5 but its been very difficult, w/d's have been pretty bad, in fact now it seems that .75 doesn't even keep me out of w/d. I've read the pregnant women sometimes have to increase their dose towards the end of their pregnancy due to the added blood flow and maybe thats whats happening with me, the added blood flow is causing me to filter through the Bupe faster than normal.

But I am not going to take more.....so far i have just been keeping steady at .75 and ill just have to slow down my taper.

I took .16mg this morning at about 230am and was able to go back to sleep about 430 (also the RLS I was experiencing before was a birthday party compared to whats its been the last two nights, all of a sudden it is almost unbearable). When I woke up with the kids to get them off to school I was already sick again, about 7am. So at 730 I had waited as long as I could and I took another .16mg (which if i wanted to make sure i was successful for the day in only taking .5mg i should have waited until about noon to take it, but I am just so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired). By 930 i didn't feel any better, so I took my last .16mg (just thinking i'd have to take .75mg today because I will HAVE to take some later tonight) which is .5mg total since 2am, BUT if i had only waited like 15 more minutes to take that last dose i wouldn't have needed it because that 730 am dose finally kicked in and made me feel better, 2 freaking hours later!! So now I'm kicking myself in the ass because I've already ruined any chance i had of going down today. But thats ok, i need to look at it as a learning experience, and quit being so impatient (although i thought 2 hours was plenty enough time).

I am thinking that there is no chance of being off it completely before the baby comes, but I will continue to do the best I can, but the one thing i will not do is increase my dose. My worst case scenario goal was .5mg at delivery and i will make sure i am at at least that.

I want everyone to know how much i appreciate this forum and all the support I have been getting. You guys help me to keep going and not give up.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Don't rush so much km, I know ur trying to keep a schedule but don't focus so much on that....ur dose is low so try to give urself a little break. I hate to hear about u feeling so bad with the rls. Rls was my absolute number 1 hated withdrawal symptom. I hated it & with u being so pregnant, I can't imagine! I think if u stayed where ur at right now you'd be ok, I know that's not ur goal but ur doing great. So don't beat urself up over the doses so much. We're all pulling for ya, just know that!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:45 pm 
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1234km, honey I feel your pain! I know what you are going thru seems like hell right now, and I know exactly what you mean about being sick and tired of being sick and tired. You are doing better than me! I am at 38 weeks today, and can't seem to get any lower than about 1mg. I was on .75mg, and just couldn't do it. I was taking about .25 three times a day and feeling withdrawals within a few hours of each dose. I have read that it is true about the increase in blood volume, and that a lot of women need an increase so that explains why our doses aren't holding us from going into withdrawal. I know what you mean about the RLS, too! That is probably the worst withdrawal symptom, and is also very common to occur normally in the end of pregnancy, so its like all these symptoms times two!I was seriously freaking out for the past few nights really bad, like the rls, plus crazy panic attacks, crying out of no where,etc. I feel so bad for my bf, he is such a sweetheart and I feel like I have been such a miserable b****,lol. I feel like I am going crazy sometimes! It feels like my heart is gonna race out of my chest. Rocking back and forth uncontrollably, this unbearable feeling of restlessness, I can't even explain it but its scary. I was seriously thinking about going to the emergency room at one point, but I have just been dealing with it. I know you saw my last thread where I am freaking out about having to maybe have a C-section too. Just the whole idea freaks me out so bad! You are also scheduled for a csection right? did u have one with your older child? You were already off the subs last time though right? Anyway I am all over the place. I just want you to know, you are not alone, and remember, this too shall pass! I just keep praying that my baby is healthy and doesn't suffer withdrawals! That's the only thing that keeps me going, is knowing that this is only temporary! Every little freakin thing seems so difficult! Just taking a shower or making dinner seems like such a huge project! I truly hate feeling this useless, and just can't wait to feel myself again! I know at this point I am probably gonna just stay at the 1mg, and once I get my date to be induced or get the C-section, just get as low as I possibly can. You are doing great and doing the best that you can so stop beating yourself up! You are already a great mom, and are doing the best that you can for your baby so remember that! Please keep posting and let me know how you are doing! :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Ok so after much consideration, reading and support from my husband (which I'm shocked about) I've decided to not put so much pressure on myself to be completely off before my c section. Especially this past week trying to go down to .5mg has been so hard and I think I know why. I don't think I was stable at .75, I think I finally am stable because this morning I told a third of my .5pile and haven't even thought about taking more yet, which is a big deal. Usually by now I've taken all three piles of my .5mg and already decided that Ill be taking .25 later to combat the evening w/d's.

But so far today I've done good. And I think it just took me almost two weeks to stabalize on .75mg. And I've made peace with it all. Somewhere I read someone talking about their quality of life during their taper and that really hit home with me. My quality of life SUCKED!! I felt so crappy and basically hated life. I still know this week will getvhard stabilizing on .5mg, but at least I've had some good days and I feel like I can make this last push to .5mg before delivery. And the fact that my husband is supporting me is also a big deal. I think he just saw how miserable I was and for what really?

Im really banking on the fact that my pain will still be able to be controlled at my lower dose Of bupe,and I know they can give me Dilaudid through my epidural right after surgery so I'm hoping that will kncock off the bupe so the percocets will work when I get home.i will for sure update and let you guys know how my plan will work. I've got no more than about a week to go maybe less if I go into labor before the. I'll keep you all updated.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:02 pm 
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From what I've learned on this forum, it does take around 2 weeks to adjust so that's probably right with u too. Like I said before, don't push urself to hard,you've already done an amazing taper so far during this end of ur pregnancy. I'm sure things will be just fine and most importantly, good luck with the new baby! Ur on the downhill slide now :)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Please don't beat yourself up. You have done an amazing job of tapering. I would not be so worried about tapering any further as you are plenty low enough to get pain relief. I would take enough so that you and your baby are comfortable. Best of luck with delivery and enjoy your new baby. That is more important than what dose you are on.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Thanks to the both of you!! Your encouragement and kind words mean a lot.

So one question I have since I will still be on at least a little Bupe is when to stop taking it. Ideally I know would be a couple days but I don't think that will be possible. Already after about 6 hours I need to dose again (.16mg 3x daily) as the w/d have started to set in. I think I would be going into surgery miserable if I did that. I was thinking to just dose As little as possible the day before and nothing the morning of.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:01 pm 
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I am going on Friday, Sept 30th for another ECV where will try to turn her, and then if it works I will get induced, and if not I will need a C-section. I was also wondering the same thing as to when I should take my last dose, as if I do need a C-section, so the pain meds will work, and I am also gonna tell my Dr, that I am still on 1mg daily. I was thinking that I will take my last dose tomorrow morning, at around 8am, to give me 24 hours till my appointment. I was also thinking about how miserable I will be going in for the induction, and possibly surgery. I don't know if I should maybe take a tiny dose the night before? Anyway, good luck with your surgery and with your new baby! Please let us know how everything turns out!! :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:48 am 
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If you don't know my story go back and read through my threads. I have one that goes back 2 years ago, as this was my second time being pregnant on Subutex.

So baby came early at 36 weeks and 2 days, I went into labor and they couldn't stop it. I was still taking .75mg and had resolved my guilty feelings about not being able to be fully off the meds before delivery. I was hoping to be lower than I was,but my labor started unexpectedly. I had taken .25mg in the am, afternoon and pm at about 5 the day I went into labor, labor started around 8pm. We went into hospital around 1am and at 630am I was headed into the OR for a C-section. OB came in to talk to me quickly and I reminded him that I was tapering from Subutex and with the early delivery I wasn't all the way off, and if I said that my pain wasn't controlled enough it wasn't me drug seeking (he knows my past addiction history). He said something about Toradol being my best friend (which freaked me out btw, I thought to myself my doctor is smarter than that he can't really be thinking toradol will get me through this) and he said he'd talk to the anesthesiologist about keeping the epidural in longer than normal to help with the pain. (More on this later)

Epidural given, I kept telling them I wasn't all the way numb (I know this has nothing to do with the Subutex, it was just a fluke) when they would pinch test me and my bottom legs and feet never got fully numb which is what has happened in the past. So the Anesthesiologist pumped me full of dilaudid, which seemed to help, a I surely felt MUCH better than I had in the months I had tapered for, lol. So that was able to break through the Subutex left on my receptors, .75mg daily. They couldn't leave my epidural in to help keep me numb, something about the hospital and system had changed and no way to monitor.

Back in recovery my pain was much more controlled than my previous csection 2 years ago (I had been off Subutex for 3 days after tapering to .125) and I suspect that it was all the dilaudid he gave me in surgery. I don't think I needed any pain Med's while in recovery actually, (which is one hour post surgery 1:1 nurse). Also the nurse who took me into surgery asked me if she needed to get orders for Suboxone. I was shocked!! How did she know? I still don't know. My OB still uses paper charts so his info wouldn't be in their electronic system. She asked me this before I reminded my OB that I was still on it.

Baby was good for the first couple hours of life, but was so little and early, he had a hard time breathing on his own. After much observation it was decided he will go to the NICU. It was common knowledge that I had been taking Subutex. Some of my nurses would ask me about it, the lactation specialist asked about it and said if I wanted to start taking it again that it was ok to take and breastfeed, and the NICU social workers asked me about it but none of the NICU nurses asked me about it until the day I was taking baby home and it was the nurse practitioner who said something. She had mentioned that they were watching him for w/d symptoms and were pleased that he didn't have any. I (lied to her) told her that I had been off it for about a week and that I had tapered down to .75mg so I had kinda figured that there wouldn't be any. My mom was in the room when she brought it up and didn't know I was taking it, (thanks lady) so I didn't say much more. I didn't want to talk about it in front of my mom.

Later after my mom left and the NP came back in she mentioned something about not knowing if she should say something in front of my mom or not........ (seriously WTH? did she miss the class about HIPPA? And if she wasn't sure maybe she should have just told my mom to step out) Anyway she said she was surprised that my cord blood was clean...... meaning they tested me for drugs (I don't know if that's routine or because of Subutex) but it was totally clean. They either don't test for Suboxone, or I was taking such a low dose maybe the test didn't pick it up? Anyway after that we got to talking about it and she had said she didn't realize that I had tapered while pregnant and I asked if they had a lot of baby's in here for w/d and she said yes. I mentioned about it being interesting that the risk for w/d is the same for the baby whether it be 8mg or 24mg and asked if they saw that in here too...... she kinda looked at me like she didn't know what I was saying. I asked her what is the typical dose she sees moms on and she said between 80-120mg. OMG lady, she thought I was talking about methadone. I still wonder if she thinks that was what I was taking. I said no I'm talking about Suboxone and that's kinda where that convo stopped. I wonder if she knows there's a difference or just what was going on in her head. She clearly felt stupid and changed the subject.

My pain was well controlled btw. The dr gave me 10mg percs while I'm the hospital with IV dilaudid for break through pain. Both every 4 hours. He also ordered IV Toradol which really did help. He didn't expect me to do it on the Toradol alone like I had originally thought.

I know we all hear about these horror stories where a pt can't get their pain controlled and it seems like the nurses/doctors just don't care. one thing I have found with my hospital stay is this: through my five day stay I had nurses that cared more about my pain than others. My dr also ordered Toradol to be given IV and that shit really burns going in, some nurses cared and diluted it and pushed it slower, others didn't care and just wanted to get it done. I think it will be the same with getting your pain under control if your taking Suboxone. And for me I'm not going to leave it up to chance on which nurse or hospital provider that I happen to get. I'm going to take responsibility for my care management the best I can and if I ever have surgery again, I will taper as low as I can. .75mg was enough this time.

I tried to think of all the questions that I had during my pregnancy and tried to address them in my story, but I'm happy to answer any other questions. I know this is a stressful time for moms. And it should be just the opposite of that. I know for me, child services or getting my baby taken away was the least of my worries. I knew that wasn't going to happen and if anyone even remotely tried, I'd lawyer up so fast and embarrass the party trying to do so so bad that hopefully it wouldn't happen to anyone else. They can't take your baby for taking a legal prescription. Niave, uneducated people could try, but they just couldn't do it. What stresses me out was baby having w/d symptoms. I didn't want my baby in the NICU I wanted him to come home with me. But I didn't get that anyway since he was so early and small. The best laid plans.........


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:29 am 
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Thank you so much for updating your story!! Congratulations on your new little one too!

It's unfortunate that the NP was ignorant in bringing up the suboxone in front of your mom. What you don't know is that she not only was violating HIPAA regulations, but also CR 42 Part 2, a federal law which regulates what medical and other personnel can say regarding any information about an addict. The rules are even more stringent than the HIPAA regs. She honestly could have lost her job if you had complained.

It seems that nurses and other medical personnel will always be a mixed bag when it comes to their knowledge about Medication Assisted Treatment. I have a feeling that they are all taught about it, but if they forget a half day's material, it may not sink into their brains.

Your story was very interesting and so helpful for other moms in your situation, so thank you for writing it all out!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:04 am 
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Hey 1234,

Thanks for your good update and your post to the new 10wks pregnant thread.

You mentioned surprise that the OB surgery nurse knew you were on suboxone prior to your reminding your OB that you were at .75mg/day and might need pain meds above the norm. While your OB is still on paper based recordkeeping and not electronic, he still had to provide the hospital with your patient admittance orders and patient history which would, by necessity, must include all your meds. It would be medical malpractice and against hospital required rules for him to admit you, to with hold your suboxone use or any med use or any pertinent patient history from your hospital records that is needed for him and all others needing this info, to best care for you and your baby. OB's are already at high risk for malpractice claims due to the nature of their work and because they may have a long exposure - till the child is 21.

Maybe I missed it - are you back on bup? Congrats on your new baby and as always, wishing you my best, Pelican

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:52 am 
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Great job!

After reading every single post u posted from beginning to now....it is a blessing for u to have documented that. I'm absolutely sure it'll help others in the future too. I'm all done having children but ur threads really are a great addition.

Congratulations on ur baby and good luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Amy, you are absolutely right about the mixed opinions regarding medication assisted treatment. I was actually one who was against it for a long time. The treatment center I got clean at and subsequently worked at years later is against it and taught me to be so too. And I agreed with all their reasoning and whatnot, even after I relapsed (after 10 years clean) and I was on Suboxone I still disagreed with using it long term. You could imagine the internal struggle i dealt with as a result. Anywho, it was this website that changed my mind completely. Also I might add that the treatment center I work at is becoming less and less intolerant towards the use of Suboxone further than just the detox phase. So slowly they are coming around.

Pelican, yes you could be right, but 2 years ago when I did this exact same thing (had a baby, c section, tapered from Subutex), and nobody knew that I was on Subutex except for my OB. I guess the difference was that this time I hadn't tapered all the way off and last time I had been completely off for three days.
And yes I'm back on Subutex. I started getting w/d as soon as my pain mess were stopped plus my cravings were through the roof after taking opiates for a week. The last thing I'd want with a newborn is to risk relapse.

Jennjenn thanks for the encouragement!! I hope it can help even one person. In my search for answers I know something like it would have been very helpful.

Thanks to everyone!! I'm so glad it's all over. Now toget back comfortable on a low dose and taper the right way, low and slow.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:00 pm 
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1234km, congratulations to you and your family. This was such a great read. Very informative and glad your back on the subutex. This will absolutely help others help themselves. Hope your feeling ok. Get some rest and enjoy the little one. Makes me want to have another one after reading all this. So sweet remembering these precious times in our lives. The best of luck to you and yours. Bamagirl


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