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 Post subject: Constant WD Symptoms?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:00 pm 
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Hello Everyone,

Firstly, thank you for this forum. I have "lurked" here for many years and have just now found the courage to post. I hope my topic isn't redundant, as I've run a search for it prior to making my decision to post.

I'll try to keep it as brief as I can. I'm 30 years old and I've been on Suboxone for 4 years. It was recommended to me after a 7 year-long prescription opiate addiction (mostly Vicoprofin). I started on 16 mg and tapered down to 1.75 at my lowest. Right now I'm on 4 mg and have been for the past year. Before that I was stabilized on 2.

I have been wanting to quit Suboxone (and all prescription drugs) since I started it, as I'm tired of the stigma, feeling like a slave to the medication, and worrying about any long-term physical effects it might have. However, I will be the first one to say that it saved me in a lot of ways in that it broke me out of the throws of a really serious prescription opiate addiction that was ruining my life. Suboxone has allowed me to go to and finish law school, take the bar, and move on to a graduate law program, for which I am very thankful. My new-found problem is, however, that no matter how much (or little) of the medication I take, I never feel like it is enough. I always have the edgy, shaky feeling of WD's, my mouth is always full of saliva, I am always on the verge of tears and I just can't sleep, ever. It is torture. This did not start until I moved to Canada to attend graduate school and switched from the strips to the pill (but still brand name, Suboxone just isn't available in the strips in Canada). This feeling never goes away. Although it gets worse with smaller amounts of medication (I can never go below 2mg a day), I've gone as high as 8 mg a day and I will get some relief for about 30 min, before the symptoms return.

I am a high-functioning graduate law student and there is a lot riding on me right now. I lost both of my parents in my early 20s and have no other family, so failure is not really an option. I've already deciphered that I am situationally depressed (I think I have been since I was a child), and I do think there is some truth to the fact that I naturally gravitated towards pain killers in the first-place to self-medicate my depression ever since I was a child. I've also had sleep issues since that time, as well. Every day is a struggle for me, and with this newfound issue, things just seem to be getting worse. I'm desperate for support and/or advice. Any information anyone would be willing to share on this would be so greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:22 pm 
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You said you noticed the change when you switched from strip to pill? I recommend you go back to the strips my friend. I don't know what the difference would be, but there must be a difference. Maybe possibly the pills aren't as strong for some reason. I wouldn't think they would throw a placebo at you, but I guess it's possible. It's sounds like they aren't as strong for some reason.
Someone else will be along shortly with their opinion on the matter.
Congats on the law degree!
Welcome to the forum
Happy


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:05 pm 
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Hi Sub, First Welcome! I think you are very courageous making the move to Canada all by yourself! My suggestion, and it comes from the heart, would be to find a good Psychiatrist or Psychologist to talk with. You maybe dealing with a level of depression that needs to be treated with medication. You said you feel that the depression is what caused you to abuse the opiates in the begining. At the very least, it will help to have an educated person with experience to talk to. I too feel that my opiate abuse was a result of depression. Suboxone has helped me with that and the pain that I was having in my knees from osteoarthritis. Congratulations on your degree! It is a diffict task to accomplish when you have family to support you. You sound like you have done it all on your own! Please keep us posted as to how you are doing. It is good to have you here!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Hello Suboxoff,

Welcome and congrats on ur career, I'm so jealous lol!! As u said, I'm sure u have some depression and have had that since before u started using. As Michelle said, therapy would honestly be wonderful for u. As far as ur physical symptoms, I 100% agree with happy on this one and here's the reasons why.....I've always taken the strips, for four years. But, there was a couple weeks I had to take the pills, and it was the orange stop sign looking one's ur talking about (this was yrs ago before they stopped prescribing them). During that time, I became a complete wreck. I felt awful physically and mentally. It wasn't as bad as withdrawal symptoms but it was close but milder. I became kinda depressed and had anxiety out the roof. My legs would hurt and didn't have an appetite at all. Once I started bk with the strips, I was fine. The only thing I can think of is that I couldn't get used to the pills or maybe I wasn't absorbing it correctly because I've always been on the strips. I know it's exactly the same medicine, but there's something about the pill form that I wasn't meshing with. I still don't have the answers as to exactly why that happened and I know I was getting some absorption, but not the dose I was used to even though it was the same mg.

Now I'm not trying to be a know it all and say that's what ur problem is, but just wanted to share with ya what happened to me. Can u switch bk to strips to see if that would help u?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:05 pm 
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I think its odd that people say that either the strips or tabs worked better than the other. I have taken both, mostly for financial reasons, and didn't really notice a difference. But I was taking 2 a day, so with the ceiling effect that could have made all the difference.

I agree with the others about treating depression. When I lost my insurance after my divorce, I stopped taking all my meds. I was on viibryd, remeron, ambien, and concerta. I paid cash for my subs for a couple months then quit them, too. The viibryd is supposed to be a new antidepressant with little side effects. But it wasn't. I experienced weight gain and significant sexual side effects. So I'm really hesitant to be back on meds for depression. I def won't take remeron again because it was for sleep but I woke up every night anyway and ate. I gained around 60 lbs. So not cool. I rather be depressed than deal with that!

So I quit all that, but have since got on wellbutrin and ambien again for sleep. This is from my family doc, I have an appt with a psych nurse practitioner on Oct 22 and will have her manage my meds for sleep, depression, and adhd. So I understand your feelings about not wanting to be on any prescription meds at all. The side effects can be soooo much worse than any good they may be doing!

But if you take the time to find the right meds, and include therapy in the mix it can do a world of good for your mental health. I just started therapy after 10 yrs of swearing it off. But the place I'm going requires you to do therapy to see the doctor. And I am pleased with my therapist, I actually look forward to seeing him! You need to find someone that fits. Its kind of, for me at least, like talking to a friend that you trust and has knowledge in the subject of mental health. Talking to him I kind of come up with my own ideas about how I'm feeling or reacting to things in my life, to voice feelings I have not ever spoken of to anyone. Its been pretty helpful so far.

With wellbutrin, ambien, and therapy I've been able to stop suboxone without any wanting whatsooever to take it or use anymore. That along with being busy with kids and work. And vitamins, eating right, and exercise. I've even lost almost all the weight I gained, and I have regained my sexuality. I'm feeling pretty good and hopeful.

What I'm saying really is if you are thinking about stopping subs, have some game plan to deal with your depression. I think attitude has a lot to do with it all. It sounds like you are headed in a very positive direction and have a lot to live for and look forward to! You can do it. You may not ever beat your depression, but you can manage it in a way that allows you to still function at your best.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Just wanted to clarify, I was taking 2 strips or tabs. Not 2 mg. I was on 16 mg of sub per day...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:51 pm 
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I was not saying that tablets doesn't work better than the strips. My point was that for me, after taking strips for yrs, it seemed like I couldn't get the absorption right with the tablet. I definitely don't think everyone else goes through this. However it happened to me for whatever reason. So please ppl, don't think I'm trying to say there's a difference. I'm only saying that for ppl who's used to the strips, sometimes it can be difficult switching to the tablet. I know it doesn't happen to everyone, but if someone is having issues after switching from the strips, definitely wouldn't hurt to mention that.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Gotcha jenn. Didn't feel like you were advocating for the strips! Like I said, I was on such a high dose maybe it didn't matter. I really don't know. I was just saying I personally didn't feel one was any better than the other.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:08 pm 
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Qom, I have to say for me, like Jenn, the strips were definitely were better. Maybe it was the absorption? I don't know. I have talked to other people and they said the same thing, that the strips were better. I did notice a difference however. I take Subs in a liquid now so I get even better absorption than I was before. I just prefer taking my Subs this way and won't go back.
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:51 pm 
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Happy,

How many mgs do you take a day?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:58 pm 
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And also, I think this guy is in canada where the strips aren't even available, so he needs some advice making what he does have work.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Hi Everyone,

Thank you so very much for all of your responses. I think you are all right with regards to: 1) absorption of the strips being different from that of the pill, and 2) there is definitely a psychiatric element to my problem.

Also, I'm not sure how any of you could have discerned this, but I am female and I do live in Canada, so the strips are not an option for me right now.

Happy, can you please elaborate on your method of absorption using liquid? Would this perhaps be an option for me? I am miserable. I'm also ready to get off and will be posting more about this in another topic, shortly.

Thanks so much for the help. This forum is amazing. Only wish I could have found it sooner. :D


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