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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:21 am 
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So, I relapsed again. This time, it was on heroin and I found myself awoken with the needle in my hand and nodded out cold. I woke up right away, but still the paramedics and police were called. I made them confiscate anything in my room that had to do with drugs. I had one clean needle, used once and 3 empty packets of heroin. From what the police told me, and they were VERY supportive, that a lot of the heroin going around has been getting more and more pure and that is why I found myself nodded out extremely hard. I don't believe an OD'd because I was awoken right away by the sound of a police officer asking me my name. I just didn't hear anyone knocking on the door. When you fall asleep on an opiate, you're usually sleeping pretty damn good. In my experience anyway.

I was brought to the emergency room under recommendation from the paramedics, and only because my blood pressure was fairly high due to being startled by paramedics and police officers in my room asking me a lot of questions about what drugs I had ingested. This is the last straw for me. I've had extra suboxone lying around from previous prescriptions where I'd end up with 2 or 3 extra. So I had about 7 extras worth. I've been taking 16mg for the past week. Tonights decision to score heroin was very, very impulsive and truth be told I have no idea why I did it other than the addict in me. I also got into a fight with my girlfriend and I think this was a typical case of my inability to cope and thinking with emotion rather than intelligence. I was very cooperative with police, and the nurses at the hospital loved me. WIthin 10 minutes in the ambulance, my blood pressure returned to normal but under protocol, the hospital couldn't release me until 6 hours after I had ingested the drug. Originally the police officer said it wasn't mandatory that I goto the hospital, but once he told me that he lost a good friend of his due to a heroin overdose I gladly accepted to goto the hospitall

Now, I did a lot of speaking of methadone to the paramedics and wondered what they knew about it as well as the hospital staff. The doctor at the hospital was aware that I was on suboxone, I told him I wanted to stop relapsing so Methadone was becoming more and more of a good looking option for me, and I think I would enjoy having to drive to the clinic every day to make sure I was taking my medication. He told me that as long as I waited around 36 hours(due to the buprenorphine blocking effect, even though I told him my metabolism was through the roof) that I would be able to jump right onto the proper methadone dose. Now, I've also talked to people at the clinics and they told me that I would have to be completely off the suboxone before I started methadone. This doesn't make any sense to me. As long as I let the suboxone leave my body to the point where an "equalish" amount of methadone will hold me, then I don't see why I need to fully detox from suboxone. Once I start the methadone, I am going to be stopping suboxone all together. 16mg/7 days should of had me at the ceiling level very easily.

So my question is, can I jump right from suboxone to methadone? It's not like it would cause precipitated withdrawals considering I'm taking a full agonist after the buprenorphine. Because the doctor told me I could, except the only problem being is that the first couple days of methadone may be a little rough if I still have buprenorphine on my receptors since not all the methadone will reach my receptors, and then I have certain clinics telling me I need to be OFF suboxone(Detoxed completely) before I could start methadone. That doesn't make sense to me. I think if I were to wait 36-48 hours, and go into a methadone clinic(with a referrel from a doctor, as well as my therapist, that this may help me get in the clinic) that I should be fine, especially if I have heroin in my system. I don't know if they check for that, and it's not like I'd want to use heroin just to appease the clinic as to give them proof that I'm taking illegal opiates.

I think this was the last straw for me. I just don't know what else to do, and like I said in an original post...I'm not looking to get on methadone because it's a full agonist. I;m looking to get on methadone because I have yet to try it, and while 24mg used to hold me in the very early days, that was before I started injecting heroin, and this is a whole different beast than popping a few roxy 30s every day. I just can't seem to stop. I'm sorry to ramble.

So I'm looking at outpatient clinics, within an hour drive from me. For anyone who has switched from suboxone to methadone, was there any kind of waiting period before you could take your first methadone dose? If I go into the clinic 36 hours after I take my last suboxone, can they deny me and say I haven't detoxed from suboxone? The two drugs to my knowledge shouldn't be dangerous? If anything, the buprenorphine would block some of the methadone, but in my case with my fast metabolism, I think I would be OK waiting 36 to 48 hours considering the potency of methadone.

I want to know that if I get referred and opted in to a methadone clinic, that I can start right away, because if they make me come off my suboxone completely, there's a good chance I may use in that time period before my first methadone dose and that's obviously not what I'm trying to do. So any help is apreciated. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:21 am 
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hope your o.k and feeling better? subox845" b-boy can give you what you need to know about methadone clinics.
HANG TIGHT. it sounds like you are not concerned enough about how you past out?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:52 pm 
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Hey man going out to dinner i will read your post when i get home and try to help the best i can with your questions.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:34 pm 
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I'm not going to go into all the reasons I would discourage you from switching to Methadone as I've done that already in a different post. I did, a few years ago switch from Suboxone directly to Methadone and was told not to stop taking my suboxone until I started methadone, so I began Methadone induction aproximately 24 hours after my last normal Suboxone dose of 24mg. I'm not sure how it works everywhere but in Minneapolis at the time, and this was ten years ago now, everyone inducted on Methadone begins at 20-40mg no matter what their DOC or where their tollerance is at, including people who are already on Buprenorphine maintenance. People then could increase their dose at the nurses window on their own say-so by 5mg daily until they reached around 80mg at which time they could increase by 10mg daily until they stayed at a dose for 3 days and this was then their maintenance dose. After you have locked into a dose for a few days to get an increase it takes paperwork and consulting with a counselor. Anyway, I didn't feel my methadone doses for the first week or so due to the Suboxone blockade effect but I wasn't going into withdrawals or anything. I do recall that after the week or so it took the Suboxone to completely wear off and stop blocking the methadone, I was at about 90-120mg and one day it just hit me really hard (must have been the day the Bupe was TOTALLY out of my system.) So I would just caution you to be aware that you are not really going to feel the methadone for awhile until the bupe is totally out of your system, but I don't believe you will be in any danger of getting sick in this interim. By the way, I wouldn't worry about having to test positive for illigal opioids as you are currently already on a maintenance drug, so you have a verifiable history of opioid dependence. Best of luck!

-Travis


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Yea Travis who ever told you to not detox off suboxone before starting methadone maintenance was a complete dumbass. That goes to show not all DR in this field have any clue what they are doing whether it was the methadone clinic DR or Nurse or your Sub DR should of really not told you that. and it scares me to think that a DR would tell you that I mean that shit is just common sense that you have to detox off suboxone before going back to a full antagonist. I was on suboxone for 5 years and just switched over to methadone a few months ago without any problems what so ever so it can be done just has to be done properly like with any suboxone detox to start a full antagonist. I myself went about 6 days with no suboxone what so ever after a rapid detox I did over just under 2 weeks, so just about 3 weeks total. As of were a clinic will start your dose it is a law in every state in the USA that they can’t go any higher than 40mg no matter how big your tolerance is and I was on 24mg of suboxone and I felt my first dose with the taper/detox I did. But methadone works different for everyone it is very individualized actually with how it will work.

But no Subdoc no matter how fast your metabolism is you cannot just jump right to methadone from suboxone, you would basically be wasting the methadone because you would not fell any effect from it in anyway. You would not go into WD because your body will get the opiate that is true. Every clinic is different with my clinic it didn’t come up because I knew I had to detox of suboxone to start methadone and my advice do a proper taper and detox you would benefit much more from it because if the methadone doesn’t work the first couple days you might end up on a higher dose than you really need by the time it does ware off like with what happen to Travis. Also all methadone clinics do blood work now before they will even accept you into the program period along with drug testing of course so if you pop up for suboxone that could be a problem which is another reason you should do a proper taper and detox so if that is an issue you won’t have to worry about it. As of the blood work they test for STDs of course and a couple other things I can’t remember. You will also have to go over a long list of medications with the DR and if you are on any of these they might not allow you in the program or you will have to stop them before your first dose the main one being benzos and some SSRI meds as well. This won’t be a issue for you but HIV medications can play a big role in how methadone works too. But all clinics are different some allow benzos patients others don’t it all depends on how the DR works his program really each DR has different views and opinions. But I will be honest with you a lot more clinics are staying away from allowing benzos patients in their programs now. Because the mixture of the 2 drugs methadone and benzos basically mimics the high you would get from heroine. BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING THE MIXTURE IS VERY DANGEROUS. Actually in a lot of cases people get a better high from this mixture than there drug of choice and that is why most methadone overdoses occur with benzos.

And then the big question at hand getting into a methadone clinic, I know you don’t want to hear this but many clinics have very long waiting list with a DR referral or not you might not get in right away just because you have a referral. And I know this might crush you but the reality is you might not be starting methadone for a couple months maybe even a year depending on how backed up your clinics waiting list is. That is just how it works and I know a lot of people say well I might be dead from a OD by the time I get into this program, and that sucks but that’s how it is man sorry to say it sucks but there are a lot less clinics than there use to be. But at the same time I could be wrong and the DR referral might be enough so don’t come to any conclusions till you find out yourself. Your best bet is have your suboxone/mental health DR call and see what the best route is for you take to get into the clinic. If you have to call every day to see if any changes have happen with the waiting list do it just don’t give up and when your turn comes whether it be days,months or how ever long it will come I promise you that. I was in the same boat your were 5 months ago trying to get into a clinic but hear I am now on methadone happy as I have ever been in the last 12 years of my life and owe it all to methadone and of course myself doing the program, seeing my counselors going to groups and all that other fun stuff.One thing I want to point out is how I said I am as happy as I ever been in the last 12 years because of methadone. That has nothing to do with how methadone makes me feel and I am sick of a lot of the BS rumors and stigmas that follow this drug. IF taken properly and under the right care it will not get you high or buzzed let me repeat it will not get you high or buzzed. If you get a increase yes you will get a lil buzz I am not going to lie but it goes away once your body is used to it. Just like with suboxone when we first started it we got high as hell and over time that wore off. I think so many people think these drugs are so different and yes they are in some aspect but I have been on both and can tell you they are no different at the end of the day. Methadone keeps my cravings away just like Sub did methadone keeps me out of WDs, it also allows me to live a normal life just like suboxone does for all of you.

Like i said man just keep at it and you will catch a brake sooner or later! I said a prayer for you just not and I really hope everything works out for the best but don’t get discouraged if you cant start methadone right away either.

Keep your head up
Brent

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Hey man any update on your situation? I saw you didn’t post back to my reply I hope I didn’t upset you but just had to tell you the truth about everything or I would just be wasting your time giving you false lies and hope which is the last thing I wanted to do.

But please let us know how things are going feel free to pm me as well if have anymore questions.

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 Post subject: travis is right
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:32 am 
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youre supposed to have dirty urine anyway....so f ...it what they gonna do?>


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:17 pm 
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i second indigo- i guess we need to shoe the show!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:01 pm 
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What I am saying in relation to his question is if he pops up for suboxone they might not think he is ready to start dosing because the suboxone might not be all out of his system yet and still on his receptors to the point it might still have a blocking affect which in turn would make the methadone ineffective. And he is asking could he jump right from the sub to methadone which he can’t and if the clinic see this on a test it might take even longer to start dosing based on their regulations and rules. And what i was trying to say is if he did a proper taper/detox before going into the progarm we would not have to worry about the whole suboxone methadone thing he is asking about.

But yes you are supposed to come up dirty for opiates at a methadone clinic when first tested in most cases. But not in all cases I actually came up clean as a whistle when I took my test but they knew I was switching from suboxone and detoxed off it to start methadone after talking with the DR my first visit.

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 Post subject: wow
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:25 am 
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Bboy42287 wrote:
What I am saying in relation to his question is if he pops up for suboxone they might not think he is ready to start dosing because the suboxone might not be all out of his system yet and still on his receptors to the point it might still have a blocking affect which in turn would make the methadone ineffective. And he is asking could he jump right from the sub to methadone which he can’t and if the clinic see this on a test it might take even longer to start dosing based on their regulations and rules. And what i was trying to say is if he did a proper taper/detox before going into the progarm we would not have to worry about the whole suboxone methadone thing he is asking about.

But yes you are supposed to come up dirty for opiates at a methadone clinic when first tested in most cases. But not in all cases I actually came up clean as a whistle when I took my test but they knew I was switching from suboxone and detoxed off it to start methadone after talking with the DR my first visit.


i bet you were high as a kite! you started at zero tolerance> then started mdone at 30 mg? and are @ 170? now? wow-nod fest


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