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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:08 am 
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I'll state some questions here which seem to be common among suboxone users, but dont really seem to have conclusive answers....


ok, first i'll say that in the couple weeks i've spent researching this i've found this is without a doubt a very confusing drug. All stories and accounts seem to conflict.

for one...does suboxone have pain management properties....? i read that it does from a medical report(srry no link). it said it does work at doses like .3mg every six hours....

ok so thats fine... but what about the stacking effect, due to the long half life. I notice that after a few days of taking it, i was not feeling the large amount that they say should be built up in my system....???

And finally, how the hell is this stuff converted... i've heard many accounts of 1mg = 40mg of morhpine or so.... i've also heard many others.... the question is, why does a built up residual dose not feel like i have a ton of mophine in my body?

also, how does this stuff work in terms of release? like if i take 1mg (supposed equal to x mg of morphine) then does it work like a blanket of (x mg of morphine) over hours, like a time release? is it a steady dose of x mg? so that 1mg is constantly supply 40 mg of morphine (or whatever amount is decided on here)? if so that means that people taking 4mg have a constant supply of 160mg of morphine like feeling in their body? that doesnt seem correct! whats the deal???

this just doesnt make sense to me. Why arent half of the people here f*#ked, high as a kite, from this stuff? i just dont understand.

any info you could share or better yet links to be posted... maybe it will help clear these qustions up for other people as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:28 am 
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1 - OK, first question is yes, suboxone has pain properties. For us using sub for addiction, many refer to it as "high dose buprenorphine". When bupe is used for pain in hospitals (for man years), it's used in extremely small doses. And yes, it's pain properties last between about 4-6 hours. For those of us taking sub for addiction and pain, everyone takes different doses, depending on what we need for our addiction/cravings, then what we need for pain - at least that's how I do it. I take about 16 mg per day, divided in usually 2 doses per day. Others may only need 8 mg per day.

2 - A few days of taking sub isn't enough time to have it built up in your system. The idea is to have your opiate receptors completely saturated so that there aren't any ups and downs but a constant "supply" of sub/bupe in your system. So sub does have a long half-life (average 37 hours) and the stacking effect on top of that, but that takes a bit of time to build up, depending on one's dose.

3 - Suboxone is not time-released. Due to it's long half-life, it should stay in one's system for at least 24 hours - until the next day's dose.

4 - You asked why we aren't high as a kite. This is due to the ceiling effect, which is generally accepted as being around 4 mg. (It's a partial agonist, not a full agonist, like "regular" pain pills.) So at the ceiling, no matter how much more is taken, no additional effects are felt. That includes no "feelings" and no respiratory depression. The reason people take doses more than 4 mg is to address their personal tolerances to take care of their withdrawals and to address their individual cravings. So some people need 4 mg, others 8, others 16.

I hope this helps a little. It's just the basics. If you have more questions, just ask and we can try to answer them for you.

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 Post subject: ok but....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:39 am 
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if the ceiling effect is 4mg then why do people take more....? if there really is not difference isnt it just a waste? or are they kidding themselves?

also if one is taking 1 mg then according the calculator i saw, it quickly builds to about 4mg due to the long half life... and people who take 16 mg it quickly builds to something crazy like 30+ mg.... but why????? if the ceiling effect is 4mg then why not stop at a small dose below 4mg that will build up to equal 4mg... is that not the same thing? in that sense even taking 4mg a day would be a waste becase it builds up and the next day 4mg would not be needed to actually maintain the 4mg ceiling.... :?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:51 am 
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Less than 4 mg doesn't KEEP the opiate receptors saturated for one, and for two, below the ceiling it acts more like a full agonist and it will give the person these ups and downs from the receptors getting full and emptying, so to speak.

As for why people take over 4 mg, as I tried to explain, it all depends on the individual's needs. If a person has a very high tolerance due to their addiction history, they may need more than 4 mg just to stop their withdrawals. Then they also may need more just to stop their cravings. The less is more is the idea of taking the least possible amount necessary to stop withdrawals and cravings, anything above THAT AMOUNT is considered a waste. But if one doesn't consider withdrawals and cravings, then it totally defeats the purpose of even being on suboxone.

People are unique and I believe shouldn't compare their dosage to anyone else's. What I need isn't the same as what you or anyone else will need.

I hope this helps to explain that part of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:26 pm 
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i guess the part that doesnt make sense is that...if the ceiling is at 4mg, then why would anything higher then that have any effect on anyone? weather the person has a high or low tolerance.... if it really is a ceiling effect, then why would it be any different....

oh wait, i think i get it.. you are saying that even though there is a ceiling effect at 4mg it sometimes takes more to fill all the receptors, even though the relief felt would only be the same as 4mg regardless of taking a higher dose...

But does someone with a higher tolerance really have a more receptors?

so really higher doses are just to insure that those receptors stay full...always...

still with the residual build up due to the long half life it doesnt quite make sense how anything over 4mg would not cover the all the receptors.... there must be some other way of measuring it.... it doesnt seem like these calculators really can give an accurate description of how much is in peoples body.


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 Post subject: thanks
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:28 pm 
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:) thanks for replying by the way.....


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:57 pm 
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There will be, I'm sure, others coming by to respond shortly. They will have their own way of explaining it and maybe their way will be more clear than mine. And you're very welcome. :)

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