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 Post subject: concerned
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:41 pm 
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I am a mother to an 18 yr daughter who has recently started Suboxone. My daughter started using percocet about 20 months ago on a "recreational" basis (so she says ) and we didn't find out until Dec' 10. In January she started using between 30-60mg of perc 30's a day. She went to detox and upon release didn't want to be "dependent" on another drug and refused Suboxone treatment. She was home for 4 days before she started back with 15 mg and then to 30. Last Wednesday she started Suboxone. She started taking 4mg twice daily, then by Friday her dr told her to use another 4mg if needed as she was waking up in the middle of the night with calf pains, not being able to sleep etc. She is now taking 4 mg, morning, afternoon, and right before bed. My HUGE concern is she is sleeping all the time it seems!!!! She also takes 20 mg of prozac a night for depression. She is still in high school for the next 25 days, and seems fine after taking it...then crashes? IDK....she also will sometimes take 2 mg in between doses. Is any of this "normal?" I thought Suboxone was long lasting? Am I missing something? I offered to go to her dr appointment this week with her but she said that she will tell him she is sleeping alot. Any suggestions or thoughts?
Thank you!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Hi mld1970. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. You are right to be a bit confused. The dose she is taking IS indeed high. It's normal to start out high just to be sure that the suboxone takes care of ALL cravings, then to go down later (maybe a month or so) to the lowest dose possible that will still address cravings. The large doses she is taking is probably why she is so darn sleepy. It could be simply that her doctor has told her that when she gets cravings to use opiates to take a suboxone. Some doctors do say that in the beginning. Not everyone agrees with that though. But when you think about it, it is better than relapsing. Everyone is different and I think it really depends on WHY your daughter is taking the suboxone the way that she is. The good thing is that if she were still using you would see other signs and symptoms, in my opinion.

Depending on how recently she started suboxone, you might need to just give her time to adjust and get a hold of her cravings. And give her time to get used to not using before she's more comfortable having an honest and open conversation with you about her use of suboxone.

I wish I had better answers for you. Oh and yes, suboxone does have a long half-life - on average it is 37 hours. But it's very common in the beginning of treatment for some doctors to have new patients dosing more than once per day. Again, after stabilizing they will likely go down to once per day dosing. Once per day dosing is best - it gets us out of the habit of taking something multiple times a day like we used to and when we "feel" we "need" to pop a pill.

If you have more questions, just feel free to ask.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:14 pm 
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hatmaker is dead on. mld70, give the drug time to take effect. I remember my first month on Suboxone when I would sleep I would get jolts that would wake me every 15 minutes, leg movements all the time. Once she stabilizes and the Suboxone is all she'll need, she should be fine and should be able to taper down. Im 2 years in and theres times where I go 2 or 3 days without taking mine and it doesn't bother me. Keep and eye on her and talk to her doctor with her about how to taper down on dosage. I don't know if he put her on film or tabs, but if she's just starting out I would think tablets. Im on the films now and have read some members side effects. So we'll see if that happens. Be there for her. If she needs to talk talk to her. Im glad you got her away from it at such a young age. I didn't touch pain pills until I was 23 or 24 and it got out of control. But talk to her doctor about tapering down after a few months. Be strong and good luck.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:45 am 
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Thank you so much for your imput. It is very hard for me to not be "leary" of her sleepiness but I also don't want to be on her back either. She seems to be doing a bit better. Some of it I think is due to her isolating herself. Many of her friends use or did use, she is ashamed about her addiction so won't do many of the things she did. I have been hanging with her most evenings but I also want her to get out. She isn't interested in meetings of any kind, doesn't care to exercise, so basically watches Law and Order all day and night! I certainly don't want to push her either.......I am not sure what the doctor's plan is for tapering. She will be attending college in the Fall but I know she still plans to see her sub dr. I have certainly been encouraged by many of the stories I have read on here. Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:07 pm 
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I was kind of like that as well my first month on Sub. I didn't have a lot of interest. If you can, see if she would like to come to the board so she can see she's not alone. One thing I learned is that addiction doesn't discriminate. Age, race, religion, etc. It doesn't matter who it goes after.

Can I ask you if she made the decision to get on Suboxone??? I wanted to, which meant I wanted to be free of my addiction. 18 is a tender age. One thing I would tell her is be strong, and don't be ashamed of your addiction. She's taking her baby steps to being clean for life. I noticed my first month was my hardest. It's hard when your friends are using, but she has to look out for Number 1 - HERSELF. My closest friend of over 10 years shared my addiction. He tried to get clean, and I would talk to him each time and tell him you have to want it, then things can start to fall into place. Mld my dear, my freind didn't want it. We were born 2 days apart. We had gone to close to 50 Detroit Tiger games. We went to see wrestling matches, traded DVD's with each other, used to train (bodybuilding) like animals together. But in the end, I tried to talk him, but he didn't want it. He surrouned himself with people he thought were his friends. 3 days after I had last seen him, my wife and I had just gotten to a Tigers game when she went to the bathroom. I then got a call from one of our common friends and was told my best friend, my brother had passed away at 31.

Don't feel like you're nagging her, just talk to her. Meetings can be intimdating, but you know what, they helped me a lot, as I seen just how far the reach of this garbage can go. Tell her stay strong and that she can do it. As of January 4th I have been clean over 2 years now. My wife and my stepchildren were the best thing to happen to me. Friends, real friends won't EVER put you in harms way. And that's how I was with my friend who passed. I always tried to be a voice of reason. I wish you and your daughter all the luck in the World. She can do it!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:27 am 
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Pumpt73,
You had asked did she make the decision to go on Suboxone....yes and no. When she went to detox (the 1st and only time so far) she was asked if she wanted to continue on it (they used for part of detox?) and she said no. The reason she said was because she didn't want to be drug dependent on anything else and thought she could do it. They warned me that it was likely that she would relapse so be prepared. They also said that she was very motivated to change. So, she got out on a Tuesday and was fine until Friday when she got a Sub off the street. By the following Monday she was back to the perc 30 but using 1/2 a pill. That week she used and stole from us until I told her either she go back to detox, or figure out what she needed to do to be clean. She was not going to be able to live at home anymore. I personally couldn't put the rest of our family through any more. She then told her father that the only way she could get clean was to be on Suboxone. So I was fortunate enough to have made some connections in this journey and was able to get her in the next week. She has just started OPT at our home and sees a psychiatrist for depression. She is a beautiful girl with a bright future. She was accepted into all the colleges she applied and has decided on one about an hour away from home. She would like to be an elementary teacher some day.
I don't think I realized what Suboxone entailed and was of the opinion (as was our primary dr) that if she needed it to be clean, then she needed it. Just like my mom who is a diabetic needs insulin and I need Synthroid for an underactive thyroid. Her Sub dr. is wonderful and says that she will still be able to see him while in college...and they will take it one appointment at a time. She is currently taking about 12 mg a day split by 3 times. I would like to see her only take it once or twice a day but that is not for me to decide.
Thank you for your kind words.....


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:46 am 
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Mld, you're a strong woman. You knew what was going on and wouldn't allow it to continue. The sleeping could be her depression. As long as she stays on Sub, I think she will be just fine. Since I've been in maintenance with it, I haven't had any cravings or withdrawls. Im happier and want to do more things. I won't lie I did lapse once for 3 days. I got 60 loracet and went through them in 2 days. When I found out that I wasn't getting the same feeling, and that all that I got was 3 days of feeling like complete garbage due to withdrawal, I knew then, I wasn't going back. Now, when I have had been scripted a pain med, it's done what it's supposed to and I haven't gone further.

I wish you and her all the best for the future. Definitely keep updating how she is feeling. Just let her know she's not alone. Everyone that I know that has stayed on Suboxone hasn't gone back to the dark side. Take care God bless.

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You armed me with strength for battle, you made my adversaries bow at my feet. Psalm 18:39


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Hi mld,

It's really difficult having a family member, especially a child, going through addiction, and I admire your strength and courage. It's easy for us, the addicted ones, to be oblivious to the pain we can cause others. Stay strong.

It's interesting you say she's on Prozac. Whenever I'm on anti-depressants and take suboxone, the speed I metabolise the subox increases to the point where I need to have lots of doses throughout the day. This is because buprenorphine is metabolised by the same enzyme in the liver as many anti-depressants (cytochrome P450), so it may be possible the Prozac is "inducing" the enzyme to the point that it's causing your daughter to be a rapid metaboliser.

However, this is rare. There are lots of people out there on Suboxone as well as anti-depressants who don't have this issue. But unfortunately I do, and it makes treating my mental health issues and my addiction a lot more difficult.

The other real possibility would concern your daughter's readiness to stop. This is a difficult thing for parents. The first time I went on subox treatment when I was 19 or 20, I felt urges to take more than I needed when I first started treatment. I wanted to squeeze Subutex for all the mild opiate feelings it gave me. This was mainly cos I hadn't experienced the "ceiling effect" yet. Part of me wanted to take my Subutex like I took my drug of choice. If you think this could be a possibility, try not to be too concerned as it's still much better she's using Suboxone and not Percoset. If your relationship with your daughter is good and you're confident you can broach the subject without any teenage backlash, maybe encourage her to explore her own motives behind dosing as often as she is.

Good luck mld, and don't forget to take care of yourself.


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