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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Hello all. I have a 24 year old son who has been on suboxone for 6 years now. How can I tell if he is snorting/ingesting via nose? Sometimes he makes this strange noise with his throat when he seems to be high. I don't know if this is the result of if its another drug. Can you actually get high when abusing suboxone? i have so many other questions but I'll start here. Thanks for reading.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:57 pm 
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If he's been taking the drug for six years I would say no he isn't getting high. It sounds like to me if he is snorting or trying to snort Subxone, it sounds like he hasn't broken that particular pattern. In other words it is psychological even though his attempts are futile. There a a lot of factors that come into play with abusing Suboxone but after six years of use I wouldn't worry about him actually getting high off of Suboxone. As far as checking to see if he is you can look for powder residue that wasn't cleaned up good enough in the bathroom or where ever you think he maybe snorting the pills.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Thanks for the reply. It's just very strange. He makes these throat noises, sort of sounds like a long hiccup, like his throat is closing and hes trying to open it. I read that you can "ingest" it through your nose, not snorting. Don't know if that would make his throat sort of numb and that's where the noise is coming from. I'm just very concerned what he's doing. He's making the noises today and its frustrating cause I don't know if its from this or possibly use of heroin.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Does he seem intoxicated at all? I'm assuming he has used heroin before.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:18 pm 
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He's used heroin quite often. He does seem high. Eyes are drooping closed. His demeanor and attitude are different than normal. He went to a rehab meeting today and within 15 minutes of being home his demeanor change. Can you inject in that short amount of time or is he doing it a different way/ The noises trouble me. I don't know if it means he can't breathe.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Hello MNH,

That's obviously very concerning for you. Have you just come out and asked him? It's very difficult to overcome buprenorphine's opiate block with another opiate, unless he's on a very small dose of bupe. Which doesn't sound likely.

And I don't think snorting more bupe would do anything in someone stabilized on a daily dose safely beyond the ceiling effect. If I'm wrong someone will soon be along to correct me.

I think the first thing to do is attempt a conversation with your son. If you think he's high you're very likely right.

Best wishes.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Thanks for responding godfrey. I ask him all the time and he just lies anyway, then we argue.
But i know when he's "off". just trying to get a handle if he "abusing" suboxone to get the high or if he used heroin today? I just don't like the noises he makes. Sounds like he is having trouble breathing.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:02 pm 
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One can inject in that amount of time. I would ask him what is wrong. If it is not the occasional clearing of ones throat and not normal chances are he probably is snorting/injecting something. Can you ask him why he's making those noises? See what he says. Our instincts are usually right I'm sure you know this. If there are any other concerns or questions you have feel free to ask.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:26 pm 
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I'm a talker. I talk to him every day. He gets frustrated and tells me what I want to hear, plus he lies.
Two weeks ago he stopped the sub to use heroin and not sure if he started the sub too quickly or not fast enough, but he called an ambulance for himself while i was at work. He said the withdrawal was so bad he couldn't take it. i know he does not use the 8 mg two times a day as prescribed. i know he sells some of them. i know he cuts the films when he takes them himself. i at a loss of what to do next. he started outpatient rehab 4 four weeks ago three times a week. But when he wants to use he does.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:46 pm 
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MNH wrote:
I'm a talker. I talk to him every day. He gets frustrated and tells me what I want to hear, plus he lies.
Two weeks ago he stopped the sub to use heroin and not sure if he started the sub too quickly or not fast enough, but he called an ambulance for himself while i was at work. He said the withdrawal was so bad he couldn't take it. i know he does not use the 8 mg two times a day as prescribed. i know he sells some of them. i know he cuts the films when he takes them himself. i at a loss of what to do next. he started outpatient rehab 4 four weeks ago three times a week. But when he wants to use he does.


All that's important new information. His life has become unmanageable again after going off subs. He needs in patient treatment badly in my opinion. I hope it works out for him.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:10 pm 
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If he stopped the sub to use heroin I would say that the Suboxone was blocking the herion if he tried to use herion and called the ambulance. Ask him why he doesn't take the Suboxone as prescribed or at least why he feels he doesn't need to take it twice a day. He's on a dangerous path if he decides to start using more heroin to counteract the Suboxone just so you know. Suboxone will block the herion from taking effect. I will tell you my opinion why he doesn't take Suboxone it's because it makes you feel normal. People still want to chase the high in addictive addiction. Suboxone has its effects but not anything near like a full opiate agonist like heroin. Ask him why he doesn't like the Suboxone and see what I says even though I gave you the reason I have seen why people are not compliant when taking Suboxone just to see what he says. Maybe that can open up some dialogue between the two of you.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:09 pm 
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MNH welcome to this forum!

I'm so sorry to know ur worrying like this but completely understand it. It sounds like ur son is still using. Maybe he is taking his suboxone when he can't or doesn't find heroin. It definitely wouldn't be unheard of for someone to only use suboxone when they don't have their drug of choice, to stop being sick. I'm not saying this is for sure happening but could be a possibility.

U can snort heroin or inject it. At one point, before getting help, I was an IV drug user and ppl who're experienced in shooting up can do it quick. I've done it driving, that's horribly embarrassing to admit but it's true and u need to know that if someone wants to do it badly enough they will find the opportunity unfortunately. I don't think ur son is getting high on abusing his suboxone. It sounds like he's possibly selling it to get something else that will get him high. If he was able to get high on suboxone, he definitely wouldn't sell any of it.

My nephew is 24 also. He's been using since he was 16. I talked to him and my brother a few yrs ago about getting him into my clinic. They got him into a different clinic. He did well for a month or two but then started selling his suboxone to get other opiates. He eventually got kicked out of the clinic. I told my brother from the very beginning, I told him to hold the suboxone and give him his dose every morning and literally put it under his tongue. That way, even if he tried to use he wouldn't feel it and eventually it would kick in what an amazing opportunity this medicine was. Well my brother didn't do that and sadly my nephew is still using. I understand that my brother couldn't stand over him every morning but I was hoping he could long enough to really get through to him. I guess if he didn't want recovery yet then he just didn't want it.

I hope we've gave u some ideas and help u get the answers u so badly want. Are u allowed to go to his suboxone doctor possibly? Do u know if he fails a drug screen, would his Dr kick him out?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:41 am 
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jennjenn writes
Quote:
I told him to hold the suboxone and give him his dose every morning and literally put it under his tongue. That way, even if he tried to use he wouldn't feel it and eventually it would kick in what an amazing opportunity this medicine was. Well my brother didn't do that and sadly my nephew is still using

That's so tragic. It's kind of amazing to me that addicts who get stable on subs sometimes quit in order
to go back out there. But then again I suppose it's not so surprising. I know Dr. J doesn't buy the character defect idea espoused by the 12 Steps, and I would certainly use a different word than "defect" which is pretty pejorative, but it's been my experience that addicts are not happy people well before we start taking drugs. Buprenorphine's an amazing drug. Not only does it eliminate cravings, it evidently works as an antidepressant. When I was taking a higher dose I definitely felt that myself. And on days when
I'm down I do allow myself the luxury of taking more.

But it's not going to work for all in that way. Our problems don't all just float away. I'm still the same
impatient, moody old curmudgeon as ever. The main thing is I'm free from cravings, It's been almost two months and I still can hardly believe how wonderful that feels.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:14 am 
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could he be snorting something else like benzos? xanax maybe? sometimes they taste bad which would account for the throat/nose noises.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:53 pm 
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I just realized, from bk in my snorting days, that drain u get in the bk of ur throat and it'll make u do all kinds of weird noises. So that could definitely be the source of the throat sound.

Godfrey, it's really tragic, I see ppl come in and out of my clinic like a revolving door. There's always new ppl in the waiting area on my doctor appointment day.....which means they're constantly filling spots from previous patients that either didn't follow rules or quit. Personally I can't imagine someone not feeling 100% on this medication and choosing to go bk out, but they are....a lot of ppl just not ready yet and my nephew is one of them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Hope your nephew's story has a happy ending. He's very lucky to have you in his life, even luckier than he realizes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Thank u Godfrey, that's so awesome of u to say! Sadly he doesn't ever come around, not even on holidays. My brother and my niece do but he's the only one that chooses not to come. Knowing what he's going through, he should want to talk to me cause we're the only addicts in this family, but he wants nothing to do with me and my advice I guess. It's just something no one can control but that person.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Jen-

I agree, your nephew is sooo lucky to have you!
Unfortunately, he probably knows as well as he knows his name that you can see straight through his
BS.

My baby sister (in her early 30's now) has been in the throws of opiate addiction for several years now.
My middle sister and I have tried in so many ways to help....speaking to our parents (she's been sponging off of them "her biggest enablers" for a long time). We've spoken to our priest about her addiction. I've given her tons of info including doctor printouts and videos for Sub treatment. Finally, when I realized my "helping" was effecting my recovery and the happiness of my own family....I decided to simply stop trying to fix her and create healthy boundaries for me & my family.

She won't be caught dead alone in the same room with me, because she KNOWS I know she's sick and that I see straight through her.


To the original OP-

I agree, that your son may be snorting something other than Sub. I was completely obsessed with snorting before beginning Sub treatment. I remember vividly how much I enjoyed that "drip". And, I'm sure it sounded quite gross when I cleared my throat.

From the info you've provided, it sounds like your son isn't ready to truly recover. I actually tried Sub on the street prior to being induced by a doctor. I'll be honest, I HATED it the 1st time I took it because I wanted to feel high and Sub dosent make you feel high. Thankfully, I awoke the next morning for the first time in years WITHOUT being in withdrawal. I started crying. Feeling "normal" for the first time in many years was so powerful to me....it became an enlightened moment....catapulting me into recovery.
I was officially induced soon after, and almost 8yrs later haven't looked back.

I don't wanna scare you OP. But, I've known many people who dabbled with Sub (used it intermittently when they were out of their DOC). This usually proves to be a VERY slippery slope. I've seen many deaths after cycles like this. Is there a chance you could get your son to have a Suboxone implant placed? I don't know much about the implant. But, Ive heard it's worked wonderfully for non-compliant patients. You could also have him consider Methadone. Some people seem to do better on Methadone than Suboxone. Good luck and PLEASE keep posting!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:06 am 
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Thanks for all of the info everyone.

Jennjenn, in bk do you mean Brooklyn? Would snorting heroin give him that drip and feeling like
he needs to clear his throat. He makes two noises when he does that, one sounds like he's clearing
his throat and the other kind of sounds like a wheeze, like he can't breathe.

I would really like to see him in an inpatient program, off the sub too. He says he is not ready for that.
How long am I supposed to deal with this nightmare every day. It is certainly taking a toll on our lives
as I'm sure all of you here can relate to.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Hey MNH,

I'm so sorry, when I say bk I'm actually just shortening the word back. I should have been more clear I'm sorry!

And yes, snorting heroin or anything for that matter will cause that drain. When I'd get that drain, I would try to get it in down my throat and make all kinds of noises.

I know I put my family through all kinds of misery in active addiction. My mother would cry and tell me she missed the old Jennifer and would never have her back again. I felt helpless because I just couldn't change, I tried so hard. Fortunately suboxone have me my life back and my mother her child back and my children their mother back. But it wasn't until I hit my bottom and was ready for help. I truly hope ur son realizes what a life saving medication suboxone is if used correctly with treatment and counseling also. Ur not doing anything wrong, addiction is a disease.

Marie,

Ur sister is very lucky to have u also!! My brother is a huge enabler also. I have learned the same lessons u did.... I had to put my recovery first because if they aren't ready for help then that's just the way it is. I do think it'd be a lot better if my brother wasn't funding everything he does.

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